Does Society Go Easier On Female Pedophiles?

[Placebo]

Just saw a report about that women who was a substitute teacher and had sex with a 14 year old male student three times.

Whenever people I know hear about that story they just make jokes about it, or go "Lucky boy! She's hot!" and generally don't take it very seriously because they assume it can't have been harmful for the boy, hell, he was probably enjoying it.

But somehow, I imagine if it was a male subsitute teacher who had sex with his 14 year old female student or *gasp* male student, people would be calling for his head on a platter. And I doubt they'd be saying that the young female student was "probably enjoying it." Real funny, HA HA.

Is there a double standard?

EDIT: I know that since the boy was 14 it doesn't technically make her a pedophile, but I use this case as an example of the apparent double standard. And there are real cases of female pedophiles out there anyways.

[Sandpiper]

1. Society goes easier on female convicts in general

n/t

[TexasSissy]

5. I disagree. Seems to me that women get far harsher prison

sentences for harming white males than do males for harming women.

Beware, women! You try to physically harm a man at your own peril! Society will teach you but good. Conversely, society seems more accepting of men who harm but don't quite kill women. And few men get the death sentence for killing a woman. Some do. Most don't. And assault and battery? Less time than women get, IMO.

I'll try to do some basic research on this.

Now, prison time may be less for women, when the crime doesn't involve hurting white males.

[DURHAM D]

12. You are incorrect. The opposite is true.

I don't have stats for you but, for example,if a husband kills his wife on average his prison sentence is a third to a half shorter then when a wife kills her husband. Additionally, women serve a far greater portion (percent) of their original sentence then men do for crime.

This is one of the dirtiest little secrets in our culture.

[Sandpiper]

13. I'm talking sentencing in general

Male convicts on average get a 40% longer sentence than their female counterparts.

[DURHAM D]

23. Do you have a source ? n/t

[JohnKleeb]

2. they dont say the girl enjoyed it

probably because more often than not he's not nice to look at, then again the thought of a man being attractive is foreign to me :P, but yes there is a double standard, its why you don't hear about female pedophiles that often.

[HawkerHurricane]

27. Also...

(at least for 14 year olds) the male is much less likely to have to be bribed, blackmailed, forced or coerced into sex with a female. Therefore, he's less likely to report it, and if confronted, more likely to deny it.

[bettyellen]

63. It's also a far rarer crime or a woman to commit-but hey...

what crimes are actually more common for a woman to commit? There's a question... I would guess it's something impossible for a man to do!
Sdly, rapists pedophiles are mostly men, it's about control, and that's largely a man- issue!
Women are raised to expect that they will have control. They don't rage so much about not having it.

[Endangered Specie]

3. Agree.

[BlueJazz]

4. You better believe it, especially here in the south.

I suspect the blue states would (overall) have a more intelligent, realistic "take" on the scenario.

This story comes from my backyard. (well..down the street)

[mitchtv]

6. sex with a 14 y/o does not a pedophile make

Pedophile is sex with pre-pubescent childern. there is another word for what you are talking about.I do not remember, since it is so rarely used.Pedophile , however is constantly misused.

[Placebo]

7. Well I'm just using this case as an example...

I really mean in the wider sense.

[JHB]

41. Granted, but pointing out the distinction is also necessary...

...since the blurring of that bounary is used to pass over-reaching legislation, as well as to stifle debate on many sexually-related issues (allowing only the most restrictive views to be freely aired).

[0007]

49. ...how are pedophiles constantly misused? Please explain your logic

A pedophile by definition is an adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children.

[Spider Jerusalem]

55. "child" or "children" = "not sexually mature".

Or, to expand a little, "not biologically capable of reproduction".

A teenager, generally speaking, doesn't meet that definition. Someone who has sex with an adolescent who is capable of reproduction is NOT by definition a paedophile. People who do not know what a word means should not be allowed to use it.

[0007]

58. Isn't that just what I SAID?

[DemBones DemBones]

50. The word you want may be "ephebophile," though I

believe it refers specifically to men having sex with post-pubescent adolescent boys. That certainly seems to be the most common type of adult-minor sexual relationship, but I don't know if statistics would back up that impression.

[tridim]

8. Yes, but

the teacher in question isn't a pedophile by definition, because the 14 year old boy was sexually mature and not a child. Pedophiles are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children.

[TexasSissy]

9. Well, there aren't many female pedophiles, to begin with.

That seems to be a thing that men have primarily. When women do it (like Mary Kay Letourneau - however you spell her name), it involves some emotional attachment, it seems. And it was not a serial offense with other youngsters. It was just a thing with that youngster. I think that situation, while still a felony, is slightly different from the male predator of youngsters that is so common in America.

Also, when one looks at the youngsters' reactions to it, the youngsters react to the situations differently. The young man Letourneau had a fling with said he was in love, etc. Almost always the young girls that male predators seduce (or rape) are traumatized.

It's just usu. not the same thing at all. Still, Letourneau was sentenced to prison, despite the pleas of the "victim" and the "victim's family" not to enprison her.

[Shallah Kali]

14. emotional attachment is no excuse

a minor is a minor. Physical maturity does not equal emotional and mental maturity. There are degress of depravity but it is still wrong to have sex with someone not able to consent to the act. Mary Kay did what her own father did only he did it with one of his collage students. Mary Kay's victim didn't want her sent to jail but then he and his Mom tried to sue the school for not stopping the abuse.

as for the original topic I think women get harsher sentences than men at least in the cases I know of. I remember reading at one point that the average male sex offender got less than a year in jail. Compare that to the years Mary Kay got. Also many states automatically have lesser charges for people who abuse their own kids than if they abuse another's child.

[TheWraith]

24. There are many more than you would think.

In my life I've run into two female child molesters, and two male ones. Female molesters are harder to charge and make a case against specifically because people believe that women don't molest childeren, when it's just not true.

And it's incorrect that the reaction is so different in a Letourneau style case if the genders are swapped. Emotional bonding is common amongst older male/younger female cases as well--there have even been cases where, after the male served a prison sentence like Letourneau did, the girl (18 by that time) sued to have the restraining order dropped and the two got married. Also, while it sometimes does occur, serious emotional trauma is less common in both varients of adult/teen relationships because the relationships are usually consentual.

[DrWeird]

10. There was a thread awhile back...

where somebody insisted that Mary Kay Latourneau was being treated more harshly because she was a woman.

:shrug:

[bettys boy]

11. Yes, and for good reason

There are far fewer of them, and there is less recidivism among them.

The hardwiring of male and female sexuality is different.
Male sexual response is to some degree tied in genetically with aggression, the thrill of the hunt, the prey drive. Women have weaker prey drives.

This is what makes treatment so problematic, and post-release monitoring necessary.

[OneBlueSky]

16. 'scuse me, but . . . bullshit . . . n/t

.

[Enraged_Ape]

37. No kidding.

As if women can't be sexually aggressive. That's a laugher if I ever heard one.

[Shallah Kali]

17. agression? prey drive?

can you explain where this theory comes from, research anything? I have never heard of such a thing. I am trying to understand how it would benefit the species to have this hardwired into humans or any other animal. Animals hunt their prey and then eat it, not try to reproduce with it.

[Forkboy]

20. Hunt may be the wrong word

but male animals most certainly do track down females of the same species to mate (though not all species have the male doing the searching.Some male birds use colorful plumage and dances to attract the females to them).Hell,just watch any David Attenborough nature show :)

It is hardwired because the drive to mate is what keeps the species alive.No reproduction = no species.

[Placebo]

18. That's a pretty sorry justification.

[depakid]

28. Perfectly valid justifications

Isn't it amazing that some people can't see the obvious? Either that, or they don't understand how to weigh the appropriate elements of sentencing in criminal justice system very well.

I have to admit, though- with the new found "Monkey Trials" that have been going on here, I have begun to question many of my formerly held assumptions of intelligence and reasonableness on the part of many on the left.

[Forkboy]

29. DU will do that to you

I have begun to question many of my formerly held assumptions of intelligence and reasonableness on the part of many on the left.

:)

[6th Borough]

43. You are obviously not a man who has been "hunted" by a woman. /EOM

[Forkboy]

15. I think it's been so rare that people are just now starting grasp it

I do agree that people seem to shrug it off by saying that the kid must have loved it.I know someone who was seduced by his step mother when he was 14 and he had serious troubles thereafter (ending in his suicide).

[readmoreoften]

19. but that's a family member, which is a little different.

[Forkboy]

21. That's true

and it did weigh on him more so than a non-family member might have.But it does illustrate,albeit anecdotally ) that female on male sexual assault is not victimless.

[lies and propaganda]

22. Hell yeah...

Its the same logic as why it is cool for guys to be "male whores." Its justso awesome for a 14 year old to be banging anything, much less his teacher. This kid will beway too cool for school.

[TheWraith]

25. Yes, absolutely.

In large part because it's broadly believed that women can't be sex offenders. It's totally untrue, as exhibited here, but people still believe it.

I imagine that the young man WAS enjoying it to some degree, but that doesn't excuse the woman's behavior. She took advantage of him because of his youth and lack of experience. The same would go if the genders were reversed, a male teacher with a female student, and motivations remained the same--the 14-year old would probably enjoy it to some degree, but that doesn't make it okay. However, the outcry would be much louder.

[MrSlayer]

26. It may be gender biased but what 14 year old boy would complain?

I would have loved to have a hot teacher to bang when I was 14. I just don't see it as a horrible thing the way I do if the genders are reversed.

[Silverhair]

30. Reality has a double standard, so our attitudes must match reality.

Women get pregnant, men don't.

Men can rape women, but it usually takes some degree of cooperation from the guy is she is the aggressor. Even in the case a couple of decades back in Utah where the woman, (A former Miss Utah I believe.) had the hots for a guy and he wasn't interested in her. She had some male friends tie the guy nude in bed on his back. Then she got on top and his basic biology kicked into action. Afterwards he complained to the police, the story hit the papers, and most men asked, "Is he really complaining or bragging?"

Since the sexual reality is different for the sexes, we have to realize that difference.

The kid "probably?" enjoyed it??????? PROBABLY????? Like about 99.999999% probability that he LOVED it.

Still, it isn't healthy for the boy, but nowhere nearly as damaging for him as it could be for a girl. Since the damage normally less for boy "victims", then the punishment is usually less.

[TheWraith]

33. Not quite.

"but it usually takes some degree of cooperation from the guy is she is the aggressor."

Just curious, but isn't that the same argument used to say that women wearing jeans can't be raped, because they would have to be cooperating to take them off?

If a woman pulls a knife on you (or a male friend/family member), says "Take off your pants," and proceeds to have sex with you at knifepoint, do you count that as 'cooperation'?

Your anecdote about the case in Utah shows why such cases are so rarely reported: no one will believe a man who claims to have been sexually assaulted. Society says that men are supposed to be mindless woodies willing to screw anyone, any time, so 'logic' dictates that it's impossible for a man not to want sex.

That same logic says that it's okay for the woman in Florida to have sex with a 14-year old boy, because he's a mindless sex object, ignoring the possibility that despite the raging hormones she took advantage of, he might find the situation uncomfortable, confusing, intimidating, even scary. I see little difference between his potential feelings and those of a girl in the same situation.

[Hello_Kitty]

39. Sometimes young female victims of abuse by older men

Derive enjoyment from it. The nerve endings on the body that respond to pleasure don't discern from where it comes. Often, these girls feel incredibly guilty about feeling any sexual pleasure from the abuse and this contributes to a belief that they are responsible for it or that it wasn't abuse. Also, boys who engage in "consensual" sex with adult women have been known to develop emotional problems; some become sex addicts or incapable of forming healthy relationships as adults.

Ethically, it doesn't matter if the 14 year old, male or female, "wants" to have sex with the adult or not. It is especially egregious when the adult in question is in an authority position.

[livinginphotographs]

47. I have to call bullshit on that one...

Where do you find that boys who are sexually abused or taken advantage of have "less" damage than girls?

A 14-year-old boy who is having sex with a female teacher is going to grow up with a real warped view of relationships. People in authority should NEVER take advantage sexually of those in their care, boys or girls.

[readmoreoften]

31. I find this debate irritating

Come on, a whole generation of men were raised on being taken by their fathers at age 13 to prostitutes to 'become men.' I've heard stories of it from a large number of the 40-60 year old blue collar guys I know. Are those prostitutes 'pedophiles'? (Note: I've never met one man who said he was 'traumatized' by the prostitute. More often he was traumatized by the fact that he felt weird that his father was pushing him into sex.)

Why such fascination with 'female pedophiles' and 'gay pedophiles'? In all seriousness almost every female I know was sexually assaulted by an adult male before the age of 18. Let's be real. When the Olsen twins were 14, tons of guys were openly salivating.

I think females who have sex with young teenage boys seem so strange because they violate the standard cultural script: a woman is supposed to be attracted to a fully mature man who is able to provide for her financially.

A man, on the other hand, wants a 'younger model'. Therefore men that have sex w/ teenagers are just 'jumping the gun' while women who have sex with teenagers are considered wholly deranged.

[Yuugal]

42. OK, now I'm mad!

""""Come on, a whole generation of men were raised on being taken by their fathers at age 13 to prostitutes to 'become men.' I've heard stories of it from a large number of the 40-60 year old blue collar guys I know.""""

I'm 39. You mean I missed this by one year?

[mandyky]

32. Voted undecided

I doubt many women mess with YOUNG children, which I consider pedophiles. Messing with teenagers is tricky diagnosing - I think anyone who "dates" a younger person who is still underage, when there is a difference of more than 5 years between the "datees" has issues, not sure I'd classify as pedophilia.. What it boils down to is consensual or non-consensual sex, and kids 13 or under really cannot consent to sex with an adult or older, bigger person.

Anyone over 18 who messes with someone under 13 should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[DrWeird]

34. There was a woman arrested just a couple days ago...

who was caught having sex with the seven-year-old boy from next door. On numerous occassions and in one case in front of her eight-year-old daughter, the boy's playmate. Had the genders been reversed I think a lot more people would be calling for "vigilante justice."

[mandyky]

38. Then she's guilty

not only of the sex with the boy at that age, but doing it in front of her daughter! She should be treated like any other pedophile. And then for corruption of a minor about her daughter.

[noiretextatique]

46. that woman is a lunatic

she deserves some serious prison time.

[bettyellen]

65. so you are okay with a 50 year old going after 14 year olds?

[jbnow]

35. Most men I have talked to

Don't take it seriously because they think how much they'd have liked a teacher like that at 14. I have a friend who gets upset hearing about the sexual abuse of any female, but he was taken to one of his dad's girlfriend for "sexual lessons" starting on his 11th birthday and rejects suggestions that this was abusive.

It isn't taken as seriously. It adds to male prestige to "do it". Oddly any state that has a different age between male and female in the age of consent has the age higher for the boy, not the girl. So the laws of statutory rape are actually more protective of boys.

Having worked in the field, twenty years ago the only women we heard of doing this were obviously mentally ill. Maybe the other cases didn't come up then or maybe there has been some shift. This isn't an area where I'd be proud of women catching up with men.

Even if we didn't have issues about a 14 year old with an adult, the teacher is in a power situation

[TankLV]

36. You bet. This story proves it.

No doubt about it.

You nailed it right on.

[noiretextatique]

40. who, exactly, perpetuates the double standard?

women or men? it's hard for me to imagine a lot of women saying "she's hot" or "he's lucky" in response to this story.

[DrWeird]

48. Both.

Double standards usually are.

[noiretextatique]

51. i am not so sure that's the whole truth

while i do think the problem of females molesting children is discounted, i'm not so sure it's all so equal as to who is doing the discounting. but i do think it's true that if this was a male, he'd be tarred and feathered by now.
there are a myriad of double-standards that contribute to this culture's screwy views about gender and sexuality...not just one.

[DrWeird]

52. Isn't this just another extension of the same old...

"boys who have lots of sex are studs/girls who have lots of sex are sluts" double standard?

[noiretextatique]

53. yes...and also

and then there is the age double standard about older men and younger women (hot) vs. older women and younger men (not).
there are double standards about who is considered a victim...male rape victims might have a harder time being taken seriously, as would male victims of female abusers.
there are also double standards about the perceptions of women as criminals, particularly if they are white, middle class, etc.
well, now that i think of it...most of this is probably an extension of that old stud/whore canard. but if that were true, wouldn't female molestors be punished more harshly?

[DrWeird]

54. No, I don't think so.

If I break it down a little further:

girls having sex = bad.

boys having sex = good.

(go figure)

Therefore:

A man having sex with a girl is harming her irreparably.

A woman having sex with a boy is helping him out.

[noiretextatique]

56. that's the gist of it, thanks...then there's this

men who abuse boys = harming them irreparably.

women who abuse girls = harming them irreparably. (maybe, but...definitely worse than abusing boys)

i know several women who were abused by women when they were children...a surprisingly high number, actually.

[DrWeird]

57. Hmm.

Furthermore, boys who are molested by men are often thought to be more victimized than girls who are victimized by men. There's even been some legislation pushed to punish molestors more harshly when they molest boys than girls. Of course, it's only homophobic nutjobs who think that and their opinion doesn't mean shit anyway.

You know, I can't remember a case where I've read about women molesting girls. I'm sure it happens but have never heard of it. Strange.

[noiretextatique]

60. several of my lesbian friends

were molested by women. i'm am pretty sure the molestors detected the tendency, and preyed on them for that reason...even before they realized it. some real confused/closeted nuts with a lot of repressed desires and self-hatred stuff going on, i think.
thanks for the discussion...time to leave work...LOL. cya :hi:

[Nikia]

44. It's not necessarily about the act

Many young people early in puberty are feeling curious about sex and getting their first surge of libido. The feeling of sex is not necessarily horrible for these children. Perhaps much of the problem is a societal issue, but it is still real. When a young person is seduced by an adult, they are denied a chance to be a normal child. While their classmates will decide in the next few year to date people who they choose and to lose their virginity to who they choose when they choose, the child seduced is denied that choice when an adult manipulates them to make a choice that they are not ready to make. It may be further complicated by power situations: teacher/student, families or step families, clergy, caregivers. Ther may be adultery involved. After the act, it is there that the real trauma might begin. How do you "break up" with your teacher after you decide that it is not a good idea? How do you get rid of your step father who lives with you? The worst thing is that these kids often feel guilty while the adult does not. It might be harder on girls because there is more emphasis on virginity for them so it hurts to have lost it at age 12 to an adult who manipulated them. Boys are always supposed to be the more experienced partner so some boys might not consider it such a bad thing, but still they were denied the choice that their non abused peers were not and may still feel guilt about it.

[samtob]

45. Society does go easier on women in this situation.

No one is stating this woman "preyed" on this boy. No one is calling her a monster, a pedophile, a pervert, or any other name in the same vein.

My very first thought when I heard the story was this;

I bet nearly every man who hears this has the thought "why didn't I have a teacher like that in high school"?

That may sound horrible, but, every man I have talked to about it agrees, that is what they first thought.

I am sure not every single man has that thought, I am not trying to make that point.

Maybe she is not technically a pedophile, but this is just not right. She was out of line, if we were talking about a male teacher he would be persecuted in the media and society.

[Jack_DeLeon]

59. Its all about the penetration.

[DrWeird]

62. Thanks, Jack.

That really clears everything up.

:eyes:

[Jack_DeLeon]

64. So what do you want me to draw you a picture?

The penis goes into the vagina.

Society apparently thinks its okay for its male children to penetrate females of various ages.

However hypocritically it also thinks its wrong for its female children to be penetrated, it is especially wrong if the penetrator is an older male.

[DemBones DemBones]

61. We don't deal very well with adults having sex with

teenagers. I'm not sure we should deal with it well if that means accepting it as normal, but maybe we need to be more realistic about what teenagers are really like. Of course, there is a lot of variance among kids; that has to be specified up front. But a lot of threads here never seem to address the fact that many young adolescents of both sexes are hot little bundles of hormones, and, not surprisingly, many are also sexually active.

Sexual relationships with older teens or adults may be inappropriate and emotionally damaging to the young partner but they may also be consensual and pleasurable to the young partner. The legal age of consent, whatever it may be in a particular place, has little or no relationship to a young person's age of desire. It seems to me that the only way to stop young people from having sex "before they're ready," or with an inappropriate partner, is constant, 24 hour-a-day chaperoning.

Chaperoning has got to be real chaperoning, too, not just "knowing where your child is." Kids have been scamming parents about where they were since Cain and Abel hit puberty yet parents still fall for it. If parents were more realistic about kids' sexuality, they might make stronger efforts to keep their kids from being alone with anyone who might be a sexual partner.

[jdots]

66. The abuse is there but much less brought out

the figures for boys being sexually abused by women is like our society's male bravado .When cases are brought up,the macho pandering really goes to town, with comments about how the kid was lucky,cute but it's still a power trip and tends to mess people up.