PETA, what do you think of them?

[Endangered Specie]

(People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals)

Discuss.

Ill add my opinion later.

[StClone]

1. Yeah we don't want extremists

Like BushCo.

[RPM]

2. Interesting in concept....

... but i can't give them the time of day when there is so much human suffering that needs addressing first. :-(

[imenja]

72. exactly

I couldn't agree more. I see nothing radical or extremist about what they do. They strike me as bourgeois and atavistic.

[lenidog]

75. Don't forget moronic

Like the time they wanted Fishkill NY to change its name. Many members thought it was shocking that a town would have such a name. None of them had the sense to realize that Fishkill was founded by the Dutch. In Dutch the word means river so its actually the town of fish river.

[foo_bar]

77. don't let them near the Catskills

[imenja]

74. delete

delete

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. I don't like extremists of any type

The PETA people need to be held down and forcefed McDonald's for a month or so.

So does Falwell. And Robertson. And .......... I better stop now.

[unionmom]

4. I don't like being told how to feed my kids.

I respectfully disagree with them. I can understand where they're coming from. I grew up eating meat and am raising my kids that way. I don't like that they hand stuff to kids at bus stops showing them how chickens are killed and stuff.

[dissention]

20. If it discourages

people or children from helping to kill animals in cruel and disgusting ways, more power to them. If you can eat it, you can be shown exactly how it comes to be. If handing out literature and/or pictures stops people from buying IAMS products or eating KFC, I'm all for it. I like PETA and think they do a good job exposing the horrors that are done to innocent animals.

[BrklynLiberal]

35. My feelings exactly...

It is HOW the animals are treated and slaughtered that is so disgusting...not merely the eating part that is the issue!!!
If you cannot stomach seeing how cruelly they are treated before and during the slaughter process than how can you justify eating them?
If you want to eat meat, then at least be a part of the fight for humane slaughter...
IF SLAUGHTERHOUSES HAD WINDOWS, EVERYONE WOULD BE A VEGETARIAN!

[RUDUing2]

225. nope they wouldn't...but it is a nice inane catchphrase.

[WLKjr]

190. Well I have a question for you

not trying to be an asshole or anything but just curious, how would you suggest killing them?

[KnowerOfLogic]

204. Well, if you "grew up that way" then i guess it must be okay. And i don't

like being told who i can and can't kill.

[Getchasome]

5. They taste like Chicken.

[Shadow Drifter]

46. what does?

Peta people taste like chicken? well cannibals do say humans tast like chicken

[Endangered Specie]

62. Fried, Baked, or Grilled?

;)

[Shadow Drifter]

67. Well I prefer

nah just kidding. I dont eat human. But then again i dont see how that would be differnt from eating other animals. Heh. Interesting thought there. :evilgrin:

[Endangered Specie]

71. Ketchup is good...

I guess they would know ;) :hi:

[Xipe Totec]

83. Actually, they taste like pork

Aztecs called them long pigs.

[Shadow Drifter]

85. Really? Pork?

Now there's a thanksgiving dinner. Come on kids let sit down and give thanks to dear aunt marty for being our main course tonight. LOL

[Xipe Totec]

88. Aztecs considered pork Spain's greatest contribution

to their diet precisely because it tasted just like human flesh.

I am not making this up.

[Shadow Drifter]

90. That is neat

See now i can tell my fokes i am learning something at college. That humans actually taste like pork not chicken. Coolness!

[Xipe Totec]

93. Captain Trivia Strikes Again!

:evilgrin:

Edited to add reference:

It is interesting to reflect on the fact that noble descendants of Montezuma ended up in Spain, where "the family of the counts of Moctezuma survived many generations" (594). In Mexico, pork became a favorite dish of the former Aztec nobility, "since it had a slight taste of human flesh" (578). Thus Thomas twitches the curtain and allows a glimpse of the conquest's strange afterlife in the two countries that before 1519 had never dreamed of each other's existence. Speculative fiction could hardly improve on history.

http://www.libertysoft.com/liberty/reviews/aztec.html

[Rush1184]

219. Any one up for some Roasted Bush?

Cooked over an open fire with an apple in his mouth?

[NuttyFluffers]

194. we, humans, are said to be delicious, not needing salt and much basting.

quite succulent meat. in fact i've heard this opinion again from quotes of survivors of those horrible seiges in russia, where stillborn children end up on the dinner table and other gruesome tales of war.

it also entertains me to see advertisements of human meat in the comic book Transmetropolitan. if there really were makers out there, human meat would most definitely end up on the menu at some point.

[Xipe Totec]

215. Futurama: Brought to you by Glagnar's Human Rinds...

It's a buncha muncha cruncha human!

[Endangered Specie]

87. Maybe Western pork.

better be careful next time I go to to a bbq feast.

[Shadow Drifter]

89. Fried Green Tomatos

Did you ever see that movie!? They killed a guy, turned him into bbq, and then fed the cops the bbq guy! too funny

[Endangered Specie]

91. Now Ill never eat Western!

x( ;)

[Shadow Drifter]

108. Like youd know the difference

Come on down to my house. My ex was over the other day and now we are having so good old fashioned bbq.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Endangered Specie]

9. I really hope you are not advocating Arson.

[Forkboy]

10. Heyduke Lives!

[Fleurs du Mal]

15. ahaha, weeeeeeee!

[samtob]

18. ELF sometimes defeat their purpose

When they burn down new construction sites in protest of encroaching on wilderness or other reasons. They have to know that those structures will be rebuilt, thus needing more lumber, thus more trees destroyed.

[tomorrowsashes]

28. but it hurts the companies that are destroying the planet

When the ELF burns down a construction site, the amount of wood burned is trivial compared to other damages of the company. I'm not advocating this, but when they commit an action, it usually hits whoever they commit it against fairly hard. Their goal is to make the rape of the planet unprofitable, and at this goal, they are fairly effective.

On arson (and other illegal forms of direct action) I'm not going to advocate them on a public board, but I will say that I do not let legality define my perception of what is and what is not moral. There is a case to be made that corporations harming the environment are harming our health, attacking us, and some feel that they have the right to fight back. The ELF would argue that they did not start the war they are fighting, but that it was in fact those who they are fighting against, and the system that supports them.

There definitely is a line that needs to be drawn somewhere, but I'm not gonna cry over lost property, especially that belonging to the rich.

[Spiffarino]

184. A torched Hummer

...produces many times more of the pollutants that the vehicle will spew and, ultimately, leave behind in its life on the road.

Torching Hummers is a stupid practice. It's anti-environmental, and it's property damage that serves no good purpose. Browbeat them. Guilt-trip them. Make the buyers too ashamed to buy one of the monsters. That'll work a lot better AND create far less pollution.

[realisticphish]

245. is it ok to kill loggers?

spiked trees could easily hurt or kill loggers


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[AmandaRuth]

7. for whatever good they do, they are a tool

for the right in spreading hysteria as in peta wants to totally abolish private pet ownership, so vote for republicans forever. The liberals want to take your guns and pets away.

Not over the top here, i have had this said to me. I am in the pet industry and have seen up close and personal the callous way pets/animals can be treated, as throw away objects, and have no doubt that the peta people have the best intentions. So don't get mad at me.....

[Forkboy]

8. I like them

They are usually right,and they get certain people's knickers in a wad,which I find incredibly entertaining.

[Astrochimp]

11. Vocal minority strike again......

Well I hope its the minority of their member that support everything they do or say.

Sure you have to "make news" to make news, but when you make everyone who supports animal rights look like idiots, you hurt the whole.


David

[Liberaltarian]

12. every time one of those MORANS throws red paint on someone's fur coat-

They should HAVE to pay for a replacement fur coat.

the mis-guided fools.

[BrklynLiberal]

37. Would you like to be skinned alive just provide a coat for someone?

[Shadow Drifter]

44. heh

You know what from the beginning of time animals have died for other animals. Get over yourselves. If I had a fur coat that they threw paint on Id sue their butts til dooms day

[Cats Against Frist]

200. Anyone who would pay money for something as far outside of

its use value as a fur coat is a fucking idiot. Animal or no animal. That said, I also think people should be able to buy them. And I should have the right to call them a dumb ass.

[Liberaltarian]

104. I'm pro-choice on abortion AND fur...

personally, i wouldn't choose either one- but i'm not going to deny other people the same right to choice.

I'd be interested to know how many of the Peta MORANS who are so adamantly ANTI-choice when it comes to fur are hypocritcally PRO-choice when it comes to abortion.

[Xipe Totec]

227. Google my name if you want an answer n/t

[Djinn]

96. and every time people protest WTO forums

they should pay people who weer blocked from getting to work? and when unions strike they should pay for any loss of business profits?

as for pro-choice/anti-fur I'm also pro-choice on both but I'm also very pro-protest and wouldn't want to stop the fetus policve protesting either - I'll debate them (unfortch I work opposite a clinic that amongst other things provides terminations so occasionally come into a bit of conflict with them) but I'll never say they should be banned from protesting.

[Shadow Drifter]

105. you just

do damage to my stuff and see what happens. You will either be paying me or I will personall take it out of your sorry little butt. Do not. And I mean do not mess with stuff I have worked my butt off to buy and enjoy! Hell has no furry like a woman scorned.

[Djinn]

110. jeez I'm scared

I don't throw paint, not my scene if people want to wear something as repulsive as fur who am I to stop them - I just don't care if other people do - do you also advocate unions being charged for monies lost to strikes?

[Liberaltarian]

107. if you illegally destroy somebody else's legal personal property-

you are obligated to make restitution.

you break it, you buy it...
simple as that.

[Djinn]

111. does that apply to profits damaged

by strikes?

[Shadow Drifter]

113. IDK

about strikes but like i said mess with me and my stuff and you will see how fast I can kick you ass.

[Djinn]

117. so you're not sure if you support the right to strike?

it's not gonna happen coz I'm on another continent and unlikely to "mess with" your stuff but I'd LOVE to see you try and kick my anything.

[Shadow Drifter]

120. you wanna strike

then go ahead. You loss of money while you are outta work. Who am I to stop someone from quitting their job so they can hold a sign and make demands and empty threats. *shrugs* let em strike

[Djinn]

134. you don't quit your job when you strike

"make demands and empty threats"

how very progressive of you :eyes:

[DS1]

241. You say progressive

I say utterly ignorant :eyes:

Anyone that thinks strikes are nothing but picketing and empty threats needs to have some red paint thrown on them :evilgrin:

[Liberaltarian]

121. protesting WTO forums is a way different thing than a union striking.

anarchists on a rampage blocking streets and smashing store windows are generally not involved in a labor dispute with their employers, and shouldn't be considered to have the same legitmacy, if that's where you're going.

[Djinn]

136. that wasn't where I was going

but knew it'd be brought up - last time this happened in Melbourne - talkback was flooded with people whinning that they couldn't get to work - it was held in a casino complex and some shops lost business - should they have been able to sue the protesters?

All succesful protests involves disruption to others or economic loss - otherwise it's completely ignored

[Liberaltarian]

138. are you talking about "protests" or "strikes"?

they are two very different things, and you seem to jump back and forth between the two words like they were interchangeable.

[Djinn]

151. no I don't

I'm talking about BOTH.

The WTO PROTESTS I wrote about prevented some people reaching their business' which were in the same building as the WTO conference was held in - should those business' have been able to sue the protesters?

Oh and thanks for telling me a protest is different to a strike - can you tell me how to suck eggs now

[Shadow Drifter]

154. I can tell you

put the egg in you mouth and just try to breath in through your mouth. There is your sucking sensation you wanted. And you are now sucking on an egg. Though I don't know why you would want to...

[Liberaltarian]

158. should those business's have been able to sue the protesters?

sure.
you can sue just about anyone for just about anything.

it doesn't mean that you deserve to win a lawsuit- that depends on the merits of your case.

i would suppose that those business people would have to identify specific protestors, and explain specifically how they prevented them from going into their business...

i'm not a lawyer, tho...so i'm sure i'm the wrong person to ask.




and-

yes you do.

[Djinn]

166. and yes I do what?

maybe I should have framed the question better

do YOU BELIEVE that protestors should eb sued in this instance? do you really think protests would remain viable if they caused NO disruption or economic loss?

[Liberaltarian]

169. seem to jump back and forth between the two words- protest and strike...

like they were interchangeable.

as to whether i believe protestors should be sued in this instance-

i'm not at all familiar with the incident you've apparently been trying to describe, and you really haven't provided anywhere near enough information to make an informed decision in that regard...

were the protestors organized?
who was leading the protests?
were the protests on private property or public property?
what did the authorities do in regard to quelling the disturbances?
were any laws being broken?
when did the protests start?
how long did they last?
did the business people have other ways to access their property?
what is the amount of the supposed loss?
are there any precedents that might apply here?

just a few questions for starters-
but htere will probably be more before i can make an informed decision.

[Djinn]

185. yet you make an "informed" decision on paint throwers?

are they organised? who lead them? were they on private property or public property? what did the authorities do in regard to quelling the disturbances? were any laws being broken? when did the protests start? how long did they last?

Funny how you can make a blanket statement on one protest action but not another.

Sorry if you don't understand this but i wasn't using the terms interchangebly but using BOTH as examples of actions in which other peoples property/profits can be adversely effective...hope that cleared it up for you.

As for the protest I'm referring to - you can google S11 protests if you like or you could make the connection to other WTO "free trade" protests perhaps - hey I'll even help you along

http://www.takver.com/history/s11.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/globalaction/s11/index.shtml

and note I've already said I'm not talking about broken windows at Starfucks but people with business/jobs in Crown Casino

[Liberaltarian]

217. just how thick-headed are you?

if some idiot throws paint on a fur coat and ruins it, it is very clear exactly what has been damaged, who did it, and what the value is- whether it's part of a "protest" has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

as for people who lose pontential profits due to large scale protest actions- well, that's just as obviously something for the courts to decide on.

the two situations are completely different, and i don't understand why you would think they are comparable.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Djinn]

232. you're gone?

what a shame - you seemed SUCH a liberal too hahahahahahahahaha

[Shadow Drifter]

149. for a protest

yes I believe they can be sued or fined for stopping others from going to work or causing a business a major loss. I think this because they are hindering another ability to sustain their daily income. Now for strikes, from what I know about them, they tend to be geared more towardsthemselves verses stopping others. I could be wronge but thats why Im here to learn. So a strike in my opinion should not be sued for the losses due to the fact that the company they are striking from has done something to make their working experience unsuitable.

[Cats Against Frist]

202. How very statist of you

to insist that people have a "right" to clear streets. I didn't read that, last time I checked the Constitution. If they want to get to work, they are free to charter a helicopter.

[Liberaltarian]

218. there are laws on the books reagrding blocking thouroughfares-

the streets were put in and are maintained chiefly for COMMERCE.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Forkboy]

191. Too funny

Or too stupid...I haven't decided which yet.

[Cats Against Frist]

201. I hope you fight better than you type. n/t

[Liberaltarian]

116. that's not my concern-

i'm talking about physical damage to actual physical personal property.

as far as possible loss to potential profits- let the courts decide- that's what they're there for.

[ProfessorGAC]

223. Profits Are A Hypothetical Property

Destroying someone else's already owned property is not even close to the same thing.

Besides, striking workers are part & parcel of the profit margin in the first place. Their effort is part of why a company makes any profit. So, striking for a bigger piece of the pie is not wanton and intentional destruction of property already owned.

This a fully specious comparison.

On the PETA thing: Too cult-like. And, like another poster, i don't buy extremism for any reason. Remember, that even in the civil rights struggle, MLK's influence helped to minimize extremism. Same with Ghandi. I figure if it's good enough for them, the avoidance of extremism should be good enough for anyone trying to make a valid point.
The Professor

[New Democrat]

13. Complete morons.

Those idiots need to relise that human rights are more important that animal rights. They look like morons every time they throw blood at supermodels or praise animal rights terrorists. Humans are meat eaters and we need to eat meat to remain strong and healthy. I have no problem if someone wants to be a vegitarian, but I don't want them to force me to be one like PETA tries to do.


I always wonder what would happen if a vegetarian gets bit by a mosquito. Do they kill it or let it bite them because it is unethical to kill animals?

[Endangered Specie]

16. lol @ the mosquito line!

[Eric J in MN]

19. We don't need to eat meat.

We're healthier without eating the flesh of dead animals.

Vegans don't need to take pharmaceuticals to lower our cholesterol.

[New Democrat]

21. Thats great

Eating meat all day is bad for your health. Of course if someone eats nothing but McDonalds all day they will get high cholesterol. But eating low fat meat in moderation is good for you. Eating nothing but vegatables is not good for you muscle/bone structure. You never see any vegetarian weight lifters. I'm glad that you are happy being a vegitarian, but I just don't like Peta trying to force me to be one also.

[Eric J in MN]

22. Would you want to look like an Olympic weight-lifter? NT

NT

[New Democrat]

23. Oh hell no

I don't want to be a musclehead, but I also wouldn't want to be a muscleless vegitarian.

[Eric J in MN]

24. Bulls and elephants and gorillas are vegetarians.

One doesn't need to eat meat for muscles.

[New Democrat]

25. it adds up

You also cant have dairy products, or eggs. Essential nutrition comes from meat and dairy. What are you supposed to do, eat peanuts all day. There is a reason vegitarians always look weak, they aren't getting the essential nutrients, unlesss they have been slacking off on their diet.

[Eric J in MN]

33. David Duchovny is a vegetarian. Does he look weak? NT

NT

[BrklynLiberal]

41. Woody Harrelson..craziest vegetarian I know of, but

Jesse Ventura is a close second. Paul McCartney, Larry Byrd is and Bruce Lee was a vegetarian

[Eric J in MN]

61. I don't think Jesse Ventura is a vegetarian. NT

NT

[SemiCharmedQuark]

214. Yeah, I would have liked to see someone tell Bruce Lee he is weak.

[tomorrowsashes]

42. vegetarian and solid

I'm a vegetarian (do eat dairy, but not where most of my protein comes from) and I'm very solid. Soy protein has all the essential amino acids, and can be adapted to almost anyone's taste. Food combinations like rice and beans do as well. A vegetarian or vegan who knows how to eat right can be just as healthy, if not more, than any meat eater.

[Cats Against Frist]

222. Soy can speed up breast cancer in some women

That is why I'm NOT a vegetarian -- well besides the fact that I love eating meat, and find it quite organic, right off the bone, cooked over an open flame. I also get a kick out of eating weird meat, like reindeer and alligator -- but that's just me.

[Djinn]

49. crap

I know plenty of beefy (yeah I know ha ha) veggo's and even a big vegan, I know plenty of scrawny meat eaters (myself for example) it's a total myth that you can't fulfil dietary requirements as a veggie or vegan.

I have no problem with eating meat (if it's not from intensive farming, organic/free range is better but expensive) don't eat a lot because it's just not my favourite food but it's just not true that you can't get essential nutrients from a meat free diet.

The vast majority of people living in the west eat FAR too much meat for their health, I'm not talking about eating McD's everyday either -the average steak is three times the size reccomended by nutritionists.

[Shadow Drifter]

129. isnt that like

the new diet trend thingie? Whats it called? Where you are suppost to eat only meaty products? The Akens diet? I heard it was suppost to have healthy side effects or something along those lines.

[Djinn]

139. it's not new

it's the Atkins diet - no you're not supposed to ONLY eat meat and while some people swear by it plenty of doctors/nutritionists are horrified by it.

WHere do you get your info btw?

[Shadow Drifter]

143. oh the diet info

that im not relying on. I figured that was false. Hence the reason I posted it in question form to get it cleared up. Call gathered infomation from various media sorces. And I didnt mean ONLY meat. I believe I worded that one wronge. My appoligies.

[magdalena]

159. erm...

I am a vegetarian weight lifter and very strong with great muscle tone, so are a few other folks I know down at the gym. And.....this may be shocking but vegetarians do not just eat vegetables.

I'm not condemning you for eating meat, do what you want, but at least get your facts straight and try to avoid making these uninformed generalizations.

[Fleurs du Mal]

14. I like 'em

The horror that animals are put through "out of sight" is intolerable.

[Shadow Drifter]

48. Not all

Not all people are cruel to the animals they eat. And there have been more humans torturing humans that out do anything done to an animal

[Fleurs du Mal]

73. What does that matter?

First, it's not solely about eating animals but the endless testing, maiming, and other unspeakable barbarism perpetrated on thinking, sentient creatures. Second, I wasn't aware that it was an either/or choice between fighting injustice done to humans and that done to non-humans. I've always thought of myself as capable of doing both.

The efficacy of some of PETA's methods may be questionable but not their raison d’être.

[Shadow Drifter]

84. They can keep their reasons

I will continue to eat meat. I know where it comes from. I know how we used get it and how we get it now. And if you really wanna protect animals why not go all out? Polution is killing a lot of animals so dont drive cars. Dont have electricity (what a bummer you wont be able to use the internet anymore with out power. I shall surly miss you) Oh and those billboards that they put no hunting messages on, I wonder how many birds have run into them. Or hit a Peta person's windsheild for that matter while they were driving to yell their threats at people..

[Fleurs du Mal]

97. Your illogic astounds

[OneBlueSky]

17. as a long-time environmentalist and animal rights supporter . . .

with any issue, I am ALWAYS biased on the side of environmental protection and the protection of animals of all kinds . . . sure, PETA gets outrageous at times . . . but they sure as hell draw attention to the plight of animals in ways that no one else does . . . I'm not sure I'd do the same kinds of things, but I wish them the best . . .

[Shadow Drifter]

65. Yeah well

Animals have as much right to live as we do. But the fact of the matter is we are the intelligent special. Hence we dominate over them. Until we do stupid stuff to piss them off. Animals need certain things to survive. Humans are no different. We need meat. And you know what? I dont think we got to the top of the food chain by eating leaves all the time.

[KnowerOfLogic]

205. No, you don't need meat; but if you do, why not eat "less intelligent"

people? If intelligence is the criteria, then should we be able to do anything we want to stupid people, including eating them? Face it, bottom line is we have simply "defined" animals as creatures who have no rights that humans are bound to respect. What that says about us as a species is not somehing to be proud of.

[Djinn]

26. the same way I feel about forest protesters

I might not agree with EVERYTHING they do but I really glad they're out there, if it wasn't for groups like PETA most people wouldn't have a clue about intensive farming.

As for "trying to force me to be a veggo" I don't think they are trying to force anything they're protesting and advocting - when liberals protested at the Republican conference does anyone think they were trying to force people to vote Dem?? I'm not a veggo but I have no problem with people advocating it.

It isn't true that PETA want to outlaw pet ownership - they want to stop the overpopulation of domestic animals which leads to shelters filling up and huge numbers of animals being destroyed, they also want to stop cruel breeding practices and owners who have no idea of how to take care of animals - eg dogs are social creatures they shouldn't be tied up outside alone all day long - which I don't see how anyone can have a problem with.

"Adopting a cat or dog from a shelter and providing a loving home is a small but powerful way to prevent some of this suffering. The most important thing that animal guardians can do is to spay or neuter their animals and avoid buying animals from breeders or pet stores, which contribute to the overpopulation crisis."

http://www.peta.org/about/faq-comp.asp

why would they suggest adopting from a pet shelter if they want to take away everyone's puppies??

The myths about PETA are not too disimilar from the "dem's wanna take our guns, force us to be atheists and kill babies"

If you don't like PETA that's cool but it should be for reasons that actually reflect reality.

[AmandaRuth]

36. i agree with you

what i am saying that as far as john q public goes perception is reality, and the reality (lies) or misinformation campaign that the right, starting with faux news, is spreading, is that petas ultimate goal is the elimination of pet ownership. Some people believe this and as a result will not vote for a dem because we are associated (correctly or not) with animal rights groups.

I work in a pet shop and we had a "home for the homeless" drive, people could give and our company would match donations to shelters and animal advocacy groups. Management pulled the drive after about 2 weeks because of complaints from customers that the money would go to peta and peta like organizations (such as the humane society) whose ultimate goal was to "eliminate private ownership of pets".

A while back I asked where a customer whre in the heck she got this idea, and she said she is on a mailing list for lab owners and that it had been extensively discussed in her group. The information came from a speech made by the leader of peta and totally blown out of proportion (in my opinion) by faux news, and gleefully picked up by the right wing echo chamber.

I am not agreeing with them, I am just saying what people tell me.

[Djinn]

45. does that mean people should also dissisociate

with the Dem's because of the bullshit said about them on FAUX? I agree the perception is bad - look at posts here for example, but I just don't think you should give in to right wing spin.

[AmandaRuth]

54. my point is

that the spin is out there. People do disassociate with the Dem's due to the faux spin, that is the reality. When i door-belled this past election, i meet people that were so propagandized they couldn't even say the word democrat much less vote for one. That is our problem, which we fight (long run) by selective boycotts (I don't support cable, and I encourage others to cancel as well), and supporting our media, such as Air America.

Peta and the humane society need to realize this spin is out there, they need to fight back hard, in my opinion, by meeting this head on with the truth. As opposed to dismissing it with a waive of a hand.

Of course this is all IMHO.

[MrSlayer]

27. Extremists who consort with terrorist organizations like ELF.

I love animals and I'm against cruelty to them but these PETA people and their associates go way over the line. And I don't care what anyone says, ELF and their ilk are industrial terrorists.

[tomorrowsashes]

31. They have never killed anybody

It sickens me when people classify the ELF, a group that hasn't killed or physically hurt anybody, with those who have killed thousands. It is true that it could be argued they fit the dictionary definition of the word, that they use violence and fear to advance their ideas, if you call property destruction violence, but the same could be said for the millitary, police force, and government in general. The same could be said for the system that keeps you coming to work out of fear that you'll get fired. The same could be said for the companies that are committing violent acts against the Earth. This definition is clearly inadequate for situations like this.

While some are too busy putting themselves on a pedestal, claiming that they're above fighting back, the environment is being destroyed. Whether you agree with the ELF or not, something needs to be done.

[mosin]

32. PETA, ELF, etc.

ELF and their ilk are industrial terrorists.

I agree. Groups like PETA and ELF give reasonable environmental and animal welfare groups an undeserved reputation (i.e., guilt by association). Their actions are counter-productive.

[FlatJack]

43. Peta is NOT an environmentalist group

I know the conservative right wing likes to categorize them as all the same ilk but they're very opposite. Environmentalism doesn't sweat individual animals, I'm sure Peta would take exception to shooting an animal in the wild with a tranquilizer dart and tagging it so we can learn more about their habitat so as to protect it.

I actually donated to Peta once upon a time. But they really went off the deep end as far as I'm concerned.

[mosin]

66. I didn't say they were.

ELF is an environmental group. PETA is an animal rights group.

[JackieO]

29. Love 'em

http://www.peta2.com/

[Endangered Specie]

30. I will add my .02 now...

I do NOT like PETA very much at all.

Being a North Carolinian, Barbeque is something of a religion here. ;)

[Scrooge]

34. I llike them

but I dont like thier "in your face" methods. It reminds me of the "in your face" abortion protestors. I donate to a local no-kill shelter, rather than PETA.

[JackieO]

38. I love how Peta's work exposes

so much hatred and viciousness lying just beneath the surface in so many people.

Oozing up like pus...

[Shadow Drifter]

39. PETA

People Eating Tasty Animals...let me tell you ill pass on the salade to get some deer stew anyday.

[Djinn]

52. that is the oldest lamest joke

absolutely guaranteed to be posted on every single thread about PETA.

If people love meat and have no problem with how it's farmed and killed why does anyone care that PETA shows them pictures?

If looking at it offends perhaps it's time to think about not eating it.

[Endangered Specie]

56. it may be an old joke, but its a good one

:)

[BrklynLiberal]

58. Absolutely right

:thumbsup:

[Shadow Drifter]

59. Not looking

I dont care where it comes from. And you can show me all the pictures you want. But you start scaring kids into being a veg I have a problem with that. You do your thing and Ill do mine thank you!

[Djinn]

70. so you have no probelm with them then

they do their thing after all.

You stated in another post that "not everyone is cruel to the animals they eat" (I may be paraphrasing here) but if you buy your meat from supermarkets or basically anywhere but veg-head co-op YOU ARE.

Just because you personally didn't keep the pig in an enclosure that was so small she got welts, just because you personally didn't force feed an animal, just because you personally didn't throw a live chook into a thresher you ARE supporting it.

If you don't care that that is happening the pictures shouldn't bother you - if a kid finds pictures of slughterhouses horrifying they probably shouldn't eat meat either.

[Shadow Drifter]

76. Yes they are but

their thing is interfering with mine. Let em have their opinions but let others think for themselves. We can not force fear onto our children. Would you want to be brought up that way? Fine instead of buying the meat Ill go kill them myself. Causing the animal a heck of a lot more pain cause I dont know what the heck im doing. And you know what else? I had fun disecting the pigs in high school. Yes I enjoyed it. Didnt loose any sleep over it either. And during lunch those days I ate my ham sandwiches with no problems. So ha! Oh and one more thing. My question to you. Can I show your kids abortion pics? Would you like that? Or maybe pics from crime sceens where the body is mutilated.

[Djinn]

98. I don't have kids

but if a "child" of mine wanted an abortion YES I want them informed about it, if my child commits a violent crime or is on a jury then YES those pictures would be valid.

Don't eat it if you find viewing it offensive - otherwise you're a hypocrite, if you find dissecting pigs OK and you have no problem with farming practices then why would looking at photo's upset you?

[Shadow Drifter]

103. I never said the pics offended me.

I was arguing the point that I like meat and you cant change me. Also I was argueing the point that children should have a choice in the matter of eating meat or not. Not scared to do one choice or the other. If I want my kids to see how pork is processed then it is my job to teach them that. Or it is there professors job. Not some stranger on a street corrner. Do not call me a hypocrite for you do not know me. Would you like me to call you names?

[Djinn]

114. relax

I said IF ... you're a hypocrite, if you don't feel that way you're not a hypocrite.

How do children make that choice without knowing what it involves?

BTW - I also eat meat I just don't buy into the lies about PETA

[Shadow Drifter]

118. Let them find it out on their own then

and not from a stranger that is biased bc they belong to a extreme group.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shadow Drifter]

126. On the same point

Just cause I dont know where my child is every waking hour of the day or that I every person that my child sees on their outings, does not make me a bad parent.

[Djinn]

142. any child old enough to be wandering around by themself

is old enough to make up their own mind re meat eating. Do you honestly let your CHILDREN as opposed to teenagers walk around town (how many people protest on suburban streets??) without adults/older children's supervision? If so I'd be worried about someone passing something FAR more worrying than a photo of a dead cow.

[Shadow Drifter]

152. Well

I have personally seen many PETA people going door to door in my neighborhood. I have also seen them go up to children and tell children that their parents were murders for eating meat. Thats where I have a problem. Also I know many times my mother would let me an my younger brother go to our fav stores in the mall by ourselves while she did her shopping. And many times people like peta would make a point to coming and fussing at me and my brother.

[Djinn]

so don't let strangers hand something to your kid

re-posted.

PETA has less influence on your kids than the fast food/meat lobby.

PETA doesn't have massive advertising budgets to direct at kids, they don't get to go into schools/hospital/sporting org's, they don't produce give away toys or cartoons.

If PETA tried talking to kids in stores the manager would have them turfed in about three seconds - sorry not buying that story for a second

[Shadow Drifter]

156. Oh well I'm sorry too

I was there and I know what I saw. And to get technical on ya we weren't in an individual store when he approached us. We were in the mall lobby. And Peta has just as much influence as a happy meal does just like cartoons and celebrities influence kids.

[Djinn]

164. PETA has just as much influence as

corp's worth BILLIONS you don't really beleive that do you?



Which mall allowed PETA top protest, coz if I'm ever in the US I'll definetly shop there - few mall are that progressive, most have strict guidelines about activity in their public areas, this would be a very unusual step.

[Xipe Totec]

145. Pictures Don't Offend Me. Destruction of Property Does

I have no problem with the Pics. I think it is healthy to know where meat comes from. When I was 10 years old my father used to come home with a live goat, hand it to me along with a bucket and I would walk across to our neighbor who would slaughter it right there in front of me. He would dismember the animal and put it in the bucket. He would keep the pelt as his fee and I would walk back home with the goat in the bucket and hand it to my mother for cooking. I learned a lot about anatomy from those trips (and cooking too).

PETA people have a right to express an opinion however much it differs from mine. That is their right.

But I have rights too. One of them is the right to own property. When someone destroys my property to make a political point, they have violated my rights.

Besides, if PETA activists destroy my rabbit fur hat, shouldn't they feel guilty for making me kill more rabbits in order to replace my hat?

Isn't that counterproductive? :shrug:

[KnowerOfLogic]

206. You're lucky you *have* rights, aren't you. Good thing you're not

an animal.

[Xipe Totec]

212. If Animals want rights, let THEM assemble and protest n/t

Who elected PETA to be the Speaker for Animals?

And when lions take down a water buffalo, does the buffalo herd file a complaint with PETA? Are animals that eat other animals hypocrites?

What about parasites that live within their host, eating it alive while it writhes in agony? Are the host animals under PETA's protection too?

[KnowerOfLogic]

233. Brilliant. btw, animals are animals; WE should *not* be. nt

[Cleita]

40. The Animal Legal Defense Fund are the people who get my money.

http://www.aldf.org/

I think they do a lot of good where it counts in the courts of law. I am not disparaging in any way the good work PETA does also, but I feel more comfortable sending my money to ALDF.

[LisaL]

47. I don't like them. Peta goes way over the top.

They also have strange views on pet ownership. Not something I could support.

[BrklynLiberal]

50. A gross misconception, as stated in earleir post...

TO QUOTE:
As for "trying to force me to be a veggo" I don't think they are trying to force anything they're protesting and advocting - when liberals protested at the Republican conference does anyone think they were trying to force people to vote Dem?? I'm not a veggo but I have no problem with people advocating it.

It isn't true that PETA want to outlaw pet ownership - they want to stop the overpopulation of domestic animals which leads to shelters filling up and huge numbers of animals being destroyed, they also want to stop cruel breeding practices and owners who have no idea of how to take care of animals - eg dogs are social creatures they shouldn't be tied up outside alone all day long - which I don't see how anyone can have a problem with.

"Adopting a cat or dog from a shelter and providing a loving home is a small but powerful way to prevent some of this suffering. The most important thing that animal guardians can do is to spay or neuter their animals and avoid buying animals from breeders or pet stores, which contribute to the overpopulation crisis."

http://www.peta.org/about/faq-comp.asp

why would they suggest adopting from a pet shelter if they want to take away everyone's puppies??

The myths about PETA are not too disimilar from the "dem's wanna take our guns, force us to be atheists and kill babies"

If you don't like PETA that's cool but it should be for reasons that actually reflect reality.

[LisaL]

57. Well, sorry-I own Pet Birds!

This is from your link
"What's wrong with keeping birds in cages?"
All caged birds have either been captured or captive-bred. In the wild, these beautiful beings are never alone, and if they are separated from their flock, even for a moment, they call wildly to their flockmates. These social animals preen each other, fly together, play, and share egg-incubation duties. Many species of birds mate for life and share parenting tasks. In the wild, most birds will not take a second mate if they lose their first."

So, Peta does not think I should keep my pet birds in cages. Gee whiz-how else is it possible for someone to keep a pet bird?
And you are telling me I am confused about their views on pet ownership.
Well, I don't think so.

:spank: :spank: :spank:

[BrklynLiberal]

63. If you read the entire article and followed the link thru

you would have found that the caution was primarily for captured birds, not captive bred birds.
The main cautions for those bird owners were to make sure to have more than one bird, to give them emotional support and to allow them to fly occasionally by allowing them have a large enough cage.

[LisaL]

79. That's not what it sounds like to me.

Seems to me that they are against pet bird ownership.

[Baconfoot]

86. Sorry Charlie.The article devotes considerable space to captive-bred birds

And by the way, if you like birds, take a look at Zebra finches.
Zebra finches will exhibit flocking behavior in a cage if kept in groups of six or more. They are small, hardy, and cheap both to purchase and to maintain. Since their health is easy to maintain and they are relatively unafraid of humans (compared to other exotic finches) they breed easily in captivity. Contrary to a false claim made on the second level down from the linked article on the PETA website, bird health is actually essential to egg production. If you want the Zebra finches to breed you will want to be extra careful about following guidelines concerning diet for breeding bird couples and available living space. With zebra though, everything is pretty easy.

Incidentally, also not mentioned on the PETA site is how much many birds love to egg boiled egg. Zebras go crazy for it.

ON EDIT: Here is the false PETA quote and the link to go with it.

"Birds do not have to be kept in healthy, hygienic conditions or fed high-quality food to produce eggs;"
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=32

[JackieO]

68. Why do you want to keep a bird in a cage?

Just curious.

[LisaL]

80. How else do you propose I keep them?

:eyes:

[Djinn]

99. don't

how do caged birds fly?

[LisaL]

124. Well, there you go. I knew it was only a matter of time.

Now you want to take away my pets.
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

[Endangered Specie]

128. Now they show their true colors.

how are they going to enforce no pets??? Id like to see them try to take my parents birds away, better do it quick b4 the 20-gauge comes out *snicker*.

[LisaL]

130. Of course they are.

Birds are not happy in cages? Well, who is happy now days?
And what do they propose to do with pet birds? Millions of people own pet birds. These birds were born in captivity and will never survive in the wild.
But they don't care.

[Endangered Specie]

141. Yeah, lets look at the advantages...

always fed, always kept from predators... pretty good damn deal if you ask me.

[Djinn]

148. who is trying to do anything of the sort

PETA can advocate anything they want, I beleive in America you have something called the Bill of Rights??

If you're happy with caged birds and believe it's fine and the birds are happy - why do you care what some anonymous chick in another country says about it on a forum? protest too much?

[Djinn]

146. Oh for GOD's SAKE

I don't want to take anything away - I personally think keeping birds in cages is cruel - but I have no desire to make a law based on it - can you show me where I said that??

PETA have as much right to an opinion as you do - you want to keep caged birds PETA don't think you should.

There are organisations defending keepibng caged birds and there's PETA - free societies are a wonderful thing aren't they - not everyone has to agree with you.

Given your so fond of emoticons

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Shadow Drifter]

82. So it dont fly away?

thats better then clipping its wings isnt it?

[AlienGirl]

157. So he won't destroy everything and start a house-fire

My cockatoo sleeps in his cage and spends time in it if he has to be left home alone. If I didn't put him in a cage he would destroy the house, probably electrocuting himself in the process.

Anyone who has parrots in northern climates is advised to have their wings clipped (this involves snipping off several inches of flight feathers--in Gideon's case I don't have to hold him in a towel or anything, just have him stretch out his wings) because a parrot who flies away can't survive long in the cold. Also, captive-hatched, hand-fed babies don't know how to find their way back if they get lost. Trimming a feather is like clipping a nail--it doesn't hurt. A bird with clipped feathers can still safely glide for a landing, but not gain altitude.

Gideon never learned to fly; he does not recognize that he is a bird. In his world-view, he is a person. All his socialization efforts are made toward humans. His sexual and romantic feelings are directed at humans. He uses human language and functions in a human environment.

Tucker

[Shadow Drifter]

162. well put

I like how you posted you info

[distantearlywarning]

95. I saw a segment a while back with 2 PETA people

who were saying that we shouldn't "own" domestic dogs and cats.

Our ancestors, for better or for worse, have deliberately bred domestic dogs and cats to live with and be dependent on human beings. IMO, turning all the dogs and cats in the world loose to be "free" would not improve their lives or make them happy.

There are large populations of feral cats in various places in the US, and from all accounts, those animals don't seem to be particularly "happy" (although I guess the definition of "happy" depends on what you value in life) - they are often malnourished, struggle with parasites and infections, and lead short, brutal lives.

Furthermore, I don't consider myself to be the "owner" of my two cats, except in a legal sense. I treat them as friends I happen to live with (albeit friends I take care of), and they do the same. If anything, their relationship with me is much closer to that of a child to a parent than any kind of "ownership" relationship. Many pet owners I know relate to their animals this way - it's not uncommon. I recognize them as relatively autonomous beings, with their own desires and feelings and will, and generally treat them accordingly. I resent the implication that as a pet owner, I am somehow engaging in "slavery".

I don't think either party in our little family would be happier without the other one, and they would certainly get the rawer end of the deal if I were to "free" them like some animal rights activists want me to.

And this rant doesn't even address the whole issue of where all those newly "freed" household pets would go, what they would eat, etc... That's an issue for another rant.

[Djinn]

100. I think you misheard

check their website - they advocate adopting animals from shelters - they aren't against "owning" dogs

[SemiCharmedQuark]

213. You misunderstand. When they say we should not "own" pets,

They mean that we should not own them any more than say, you would own your roommate. This is exactly how you said you feel in regards to your pets. Owning implies the complete control over something. I own these shoes, I can throw them out, throw them against the wall, leave them out in the rain as I see fit. When you are friends with someone or something, you can not do with that something as you see fit. You must respect its own intrinsic rights as a living thing.

[distantearlywarning]

226. Ah... That makes sense. Perhaps I did misunderstand.

[Djinn]

53. what views would they be?

[LisaL]

60. Look up the link in post #47.

Peta thinks it's wrong for me to own my pet birds and keep them in cages. Well, I sure can't provide a rain forest for my pet birds to fly in.
Well, HTF I am supposed to like them or support them?

[Djinn]

106. I'm not a PETA member I don't support everything they say

but I've always found keeping birds in cages distasteful to say the least - birds are meant to fly (unless you have a Kiwi or Emu or something)

Put bird feeders in your yard - my mum has several parrots that eat of her hand because she's fed them from a bird feeder for yeasrs she has no need to cage birds.

Would you keep any other animal in an environment in which it is unable to utilise it's main form of movement?

[Baconfoot]

144. Exotic finches can be kept in cages large enough for them to fly around.

Check out Zebra Finches, Redeyed or Orange cheeked waxbills, Owl finches and other nice small birds which can have plenty of space in which to fly around. If you have never seen Zebra Finches, check them out a a local aviary.

Caged Zebra finches are actually somewhat different from their wild cousins due to the many generations of captivity. They are smaller, and build less well-constructed nests. I not sure what should be considered the native habitat of the American caged Zebra finch. Wild Zebras come from Australia, but they are no longer imported and have diverged somewhat. Could the caged Zebra finches return? Possibly. Nest building is really a required skill. They can do it but they kind of... suck at it compared to their wild cousins. I wouldn't make a bet on it either way.

[LisaL]

175. Well, genius, what do you propose I do with the ones I have now?

Kick them out into the wild? How long do you think they will last out there?
Cause you think they are not happy living in my home?
I had these birds for years, you know. You don't really have a clue. My birds are really territorial and love their cages-they would bite you if you mess with the cage. They do not long to fly as you apparently think.
:eyes:

[Djinn]

186. I don't propose you do anything

except maybe lay off the narky remarks...genius

I'll use little words...

I don't PERSONALLY think keeping birds in cages is a good idea. I couldn't give a flying fuck what you do with yours.

If your so sure they're happy - why do you care so much what other people (including PETA think) take a deep breath and calm down

[hollowdweller]

Factory farming sucks but I don't want to ban meat consumption

I think they make it easier for the far right to characterize all animal welfare people as kooks.

[BrklynLiberal]

55. Only by using the same "misinformation" they use to characterize

all Democrats as LATTE sipping, NY Times Reading Gun control nuts. etc etc etc

[Baconfoot]

147. No, not "only"

PETA draws attention to itself in a way "Latte Sippers" don't.

No "Latte Sipper" ever called me a murderer or a nonliberal for that matter for drinking water.

Not so, people manning PETA tables.

[Skip Intro]

51. When else is animal rights discussed except when PETA grabs attention?

As long as they don't hurt anyone, they got my vote.

Ending the mass suffering of millions of animals trumps "taste"

[Logansquare]

64. I used to hate PETA, but I think they are on to the current gestalt

of take-no-prisoners currently practiced by organizations on the radical right. Their tactics are extreme, but they get results. They truly have created an environment where the meat industry is watching their backs. And from what I've read about big food companies, they don't have a lot of conscience about what they do to the people who work for them, much less the animals who are turned into product.

Maybe you have to scare the hell out of people to get them to stop cutting off chicken beaks, or eviscerating pigs while they're still alive.

[imenja]

69. bourgeois, not extremist

I agree that corporate farming treats animals horrendously and produces unhealthy, hormone-ridden meat. I can see working toward better livestock, foul, and fish farming processes. But the idea that we shouldn't eat fish or meat because it hurts the feelings of animal strikes me as ridiculous and essentially bourgeois. Animals, like vegetables and fruit, are part of the food chain. Why privilege the feelings of fish above those of tomatoes? Both are life forms. Animals eat other animals, as do humans. Many people in this world are too poor to eat meat more than once a week or once a month. When they do, it is an important occasion. I've seen vegetarians turn their noses up at meat offered to them in the homes of poor Brazilians, and I find it offensive. When someone honors you by offering food that they only purchase with difficulty, you disrespect them by refusing it. Whether or not it is your preferred food is irrelevant in such circumstances.
I also wonder how it is that protecting animals have become a higher priority in this society than caring for the poor.

[Shadow Drifter]

94. unhealthy, hormone-ridden meat

Did you know that for a while scientists were saying if women ate white meat/the breast meet of the chicken their own breasts would grow biger? From the hormone stuff. I found that quite interesting myself.

[sendero]

78. I was going to compare...

... them to another extremist organization, the NRA.

And actually, in many ways they work the same way, they go for the jugular every time.

I was going to say I didn't like PETA much, and frankly when it comes to releasing animals and stuff like that, I cannot get behind that. However, when they educate the public about how animals-for-meat are treated, I'm all for them because while I eat a lot of meat with no regrets, I'd prefer that the animals sacrificed for me be treated humanely and have some kind of life. So, I suppose they have done some good.

I believe in gun rights but have never liked the NRA. Maybe I was wrong?

[JohnOneillsMemory]

81. Interesting that psychopaths kill animals during childhood. n/t

[Shadow Drifter]

92. Heh I guess

Practicing for the real thing? Maybe? Or would you rather have them practice on the local kids? I vote animals

[imenja]

101. they torture them

We all participate in killing animals, or most of us. If you hunt, buy meat, wear leather, or any other product made from animals, you take part in the killing of an animal. Psychopaths torture animals because they get off on power and pain, the same reason that they later rape and kill people. It is not at all like eating animals to survive. That is like fish eating other fish, or wolves eating fallen deer. It's part of the chain of life.
Corporate farming is another issue.

[Shadow Drifter]

109. The Lion King

*sings* In the circle....The circle of life.....

[imenja]

102. delete

delete

[Liberaltarian]

112. A question regarding possible Peta hypocricy-

when it comes to fur- it seems like the Peta MORANS are adamantly anti-choice...I'd be interested to know how many of them are proudly pro-choice when it comes to abortion?

does anyone else see even a little hypocricy in people that would fall into both categories?

personally, i'm pro-choice about both, but would personally choose neither one.

[Shadow Drifter]

115. yes i see your point

and it is hypocritical. Cause if ya aint noticed humans are mamals too thus we are animals. So killing of our own kind should rank right up there with wearing fur. I say let the individual choose for themself.

[Djinn]

119. so do I

but unlike others here I also say let everyone decide whether or not to protest.

Oh and getting into the aborting a fetus = killing thing is gonna make this a REAL long thread.

[Liberaltarian]

123. who has said that people shouldn't have a choice about protesting?

but even protesters need to act responsibly.

[Endangered Specie]

125. heh, maybe even longer thant the evolution threads?

:freak:

[Djinn]

150. or religion in general

or the feminism ones...I'm guilty as hell though of keeping them going - contrary pain in the arse that I am :evilgrin:

Be buggered if I know how I came to be a PETA defender here - I eat meat, wear leather etc etc I just think they provide a service, the abuses of animals probably wouldn't get a lot of publicity without them

[JackieO]

127. I see a big difference

I see a big difference between a woman choosing to terminate a pregnancy and the torture and killing of a sentient creature who is busy living its own life in order to make a luxury item.

And by torture I'm refering to lives confined to wire cages, enduring extremes of temperature, lack of veterinary care, and being killed by poisoning, neck breaking, or anal or vaginal electrocution.

[Shadow Drifter]

131. Every living creature is caged

Even humans. We are caged on this little thing called earth. And if we dont put some animals behind bars (for lack of better words) then where will they go? We are tearing up their habitats to build homes and make common goods. Everything you do, everytime you breath you are affecting another living or nonliving thing. Such is life. Get over it. People will always find pleasure in pain, whehter it be the pain of an animal or human. Saddly that is life.

[JackieO]

132. Get over it?

No thanks.

How does your idea that "we are caged on this little thing called earth" make electrocuting minks up the ass something that I should just get over?

[Shadow Drifter]

135. ok so...

what about the death penalty? the electric chair? Do you agree with that idea? Just a question not trying to tie this one in to the PETA thing just yet. Im just curious

[Forkboy]

192. Woooo...talk about all over the map

:eyes:

[Liberaltarian]

137. so the Peta MORANS had the right idea?

break into a mink farm, and release all the minks into the wild...of an environment they are not accustomed to, so that they could slowly starve or freeze to death?

which would you prefer for yourself, given the choice?- a slow agonizing death by starvation, or a very quick electroction?

[Shadow Drifter]

140. can i vote for the quick death please?

[JackieO]

168. meh

You're using a logical fallacy, I don't have the time to look up which one but basically you're attempting to justify torture because you don't like something peta did.

[Liberaltarian]

171. ????

torture comes in many forms-

btw- are you or are you not a complete vegetarian?

and-
have you ever intentionally killed any insects?

[JackieO]

174. "torture comes in many forms"

A truly amazing insight!

And?

[Liberaltarian]

176. and-

you didn't answer my questions...

[JackieO]

179. why should I?

I think you're an idiot and it's more fun to string you along.

[Liberaltarian]

181. who's stringing who?

methinks someone's afraid to let her hypocricy shine through...

[JackieO]

189. don't count on it, brainiac

:hi:

[Djinn]

187. I think you'll find that wasn't PETA

but the A.L.F...thanks for playing though you get to take away this lurvely boardgame....

[Djinn]

155. Iraq war?

get over it there's always been war

Patriot Act? get over it there's always been repression

Election theft? get over it there's always been fraud

Murder/Robbery? get over it there's always been crime

[Liberaltarian]

133. like i said- i'm pro-choice about abortion AND owning fur...

AND eating meat.
btw-you ARE a complete vegetarian i'm assuming, correct? after all, since it's very easy to maintain a healthy diet with no meat, meat is therefore a "luxury item"...and you've already expressed your opinion regarding sentient creatures(including fish and fowl, right?) being tortured/killed in the name of luxury items for people.

sometimes, being the dominant species on a planet isn't pretty.

[JackieO]

165. right, I read it the first time

hence, my response

"sometimes, being the dominant species on a planet isn't pretty"

You got that right - and people who write off torture as easily as you sure aren't making it any prettier.

[Liberaltarian]

170. if you eat meat or wear leather-

you write it off just as easily, sweetcakes.

[JackieO]

177. Well, here's a clue:

I don't.

[Liberaltarian]

182. I most definitely do.

being at the top of the food chain ROCKS!

[JudyM]

160. Absolutely agree with you.

There is an abhorrent lack of basic ethics in the treatment of animals who are bred into helplessness and unspeakable cruelties. The press does not cover this, only PETA and other animal rights organizations bring it to light. IMO, people whose noses get out of joint about PETA's tactics are either nonsentient, themselves, or too attached to the conventions of the 'proper' way to protest so that everyone stays comfortable. There's nothing comfortable about looking at the reality of how animals are trated in our society. If we don't get uncomfortable nothing will change.

[Liberaltarian]

163. ahhh- another TOTAL vegetarian, huh?

so releasing minks into an unsuitable environment so that they can slowly freeze or starve to death is the way to go?

[JudyM]

167. At least they have a chance, unlike when they're anal-and genitally

electrocuted. The idea is to not raise them for fur at all, better yet.

[Liberaltarian]

172. what about raising animals for meat?

after all- meat is just as unnecessary as fur...but you don't seem to want to address that...

afraid you might be revealed as a preachy hypocrite?

and btw- no, minks released into an unsuitable environment have no chance- they will die a slow agonizing death.

[JudyM]

231. Whatever they're raised for, I believe they should be treated humanely -

and I don't consider myself as falling into the 'preachy hypocrite' category. I do not eat meat nor do I advocate raising animals for that purpose.

[gaia_gardener]

153. Without PETA, the ASPCA looks extremist

We need the groups on the extreme ends so that the other organizations look moderate.

[silverpatronus]

161. i hate animals, ergo, PETA annoys me.

plus, we, human beings, have canine teeth. ergo, we are MEANT to eat meat, and i refuse to let anybody make me feel guilty because the only time i like animals are when they are dead and cooked on my dinner plate. i don't care how they're killed, as long as they're not still moving by the time they get to the table. i don't care if my medication or cosmetic product was tested on an animal first, so long as it doesn't make me break out in a rash. i prefer to spend my time, energy and money helping and saving humans thankyouverymuch.

[skippythwndrdog]

173. Nuts.

absolutely nuts.

[Ladyhawk]

178. They taste good dipped in chocolate. n/t

[212demop]

180. I don't.

[Guaranteed]

183. I think they need to get their fucking priorities straight. nt

[InfoMinister]

188. I Feel They're Doing The Exact Same Thing As Religious Extremists

They're trying to force a moralistic opinion on other people that may not share that opinion. Why can't they just do what they want to do and stop forcing other people to believe what they believe? Not everyone shares the same values ans beliefs and it's wrong to try to force someone else to fight against millions of years of evolution in order to stop them from eating an animal. The human race has been hunting and killing animals since the beginning. We have developed specialized teeth in order to tear this meat apart. We've used our ingenuity in order to create more effective ways of killing these animals in order to feed our families. In the same way that the Pat Robertsons of the world attempt to force us not to have sex until marriage or not to jerk off to porn, these PETA people are attempting to tell us that something that we've been doing since the dawn of man is a disgusting act that we should never do. I just don't get it. Especially, when a person who supports PETA condemns the religious right.

[T Town Jake]

193. Just polished off a T-bone steak with Shrimp...

...a few hours ago. And it was delicious. What can I say? :shrug: :evilgrin:

[Endangered Specie]

198. Im having Veal Parmesan sometime soon

;)

[KnowerOfLogic]

208. Maybe some day a pack of starving pitbulls will "have" you.

[Endangered Specie]

230. Some day a strong gust of wind will up and blow you away.

vegetarians :eyes:

[KnowerOfLogic]

236. Honey, i deadlifted 315 lbs at a bodyweight of about 120. I really

laugh when i hear people say that they "need" meat in order to stay healthy. I've been a vegetarian for at least 15 years, and i can assure that my muscle mass and strength have *always* put 99% of other women to shame. Although i'm 39 now and have lost some weight due to stress and not working out, i can still do about 18 pull-ups and bench press well over my body weight for reps. There is really nothing magic about meat; the protein in it can be easily substituted by other foods.

[Lilith Velkor]

195. Fuck PETA

Sideways. With no lube.

[clover]

196. PETA=spoiled white kids w/ time and money to burn (nt)

[KnowerOfLogic]

209. PETA haters = very nasty, selfish, cold-harted people. Btw,

i'm not a member of PETA, but it seems to me that the PETA bashing is just an excuse to rationalize some really grotesque human behavior.

[donheld]

197. The backlash

against PETA does more harm than good.

[A Simple Game]

199. If you have a cow, and I have a cow.

I won't tell you what to do with your cow, and you won't tell me what to do with my cow. OK.

[WoodrowFan]

221. OMG, the fundies are right

see what gay marriage gets us!!!


(KIDDING)

[KnowerOfLogic]

203. The treatment of animals by humans is a sickening disgrace, and certainly

calls into question just who are the "animals" on the planet earth.

[drhilarius]

207. Everytime I see one of their graphic flyers, I want BBQ. n/t.

[KnowerOfLogic]

210. ha ha, and every time i hear people joke about killing animals, i want

to see the animals get the last laugh, and a hearty meal.

[drhilarius]

211. I'll be on the look out for rampaging cows in the middle of DC. n/t.

[KnowerOfLogic]

239. Well, it does point out the double standard. If it's okay for people to

kill animals, then it must be okay for animals to kill people. I've no doubt though, that if some of the more militant animal killers were to say, have a child mauled to death by some dogs, they most certainly would *not* consider it okay. Look, i'm not necessarily making any case, one way or the other, i'm just saying that there are some logical problems with the pro-killing arguments.

[Carson]

216. Equating the life of humans with animals

is my main beef (pun intended) with PETA.

Of course, I do not want animals to be tortured or killed with cruelty, but slaughtering animals for food/clothing is not murder.

No one can convince me that the life of my dog is the same (morally, physically,whatever) as the life of my child.

PETA is just a little too "out there" for my tastes.

[KnowerOfLogic]

237. *Just for the sake of argument,* why don't you explain why they

are not equal. I'll save you some time, because i've heard all the explanations, and they boil down to simply "we are us. they are them." Now, given that "we" have the power, this explanation is quite satisfactory to allow us to do whatever we want to them.

But let me pose a hypothetical question - what if some alien species came to earth and this species was so far superior to us that we were nothing but "animals" relative to them. Would you then say that it would be right and morally acceptable to you for this species to begin exploiting humans they way that we exploit animals?

[semillama]

220. My girlfriend has an interesting theory on PETA

She thinks, and I tend to agree, that PETA is actually set up by right-wingers to make environmentalists look like wackos.

See, it's all a front group. Every time they pose in chicken suits on the roof of a fast food restaurant, it's like all environmentalists are like that for some people.

[Catchawave]

224. Just another Peta Flame War.....

Endangered Specie must be proud of starting a thread to allow propaganda spewing bashing talking points from the very worried animal industry...from pet shops, backyard breeders to animal factories.

Fear of PETA duly noted in the more rabid posts, which are filled with hate and misinformation. How Democratic <sarcasm>. Educate yourselves people and stop creating a Swift Boat atomosphere of Rovian proportion against such a compassionate organization. Nobody's planning on ripping "Fluffy" out of your arms, or taking your steak knives away!

PETA: About PETA: Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.peta.org/about/faq.asp

PETA Annual Review 2003
http://www.peta.org/feat/annualreview2003/

[Warren DeMontague]

238. From the FAQ you posted:

"Supporters of the animal rights movement believe that animals are not ours to use for food"

Therefore, yes, the agenda includes taking the steak away, if not maybe the knife.

So before you go into knee-jerk spasms about how poor PETA is being painted as extremist, to people who don't have a problem with eating meat, an agenda that says people shouldn't be able to eat animals, period, is extremist. It is. Sorry.

And I say that as someone who doesn't believe in supporting Factory Farming and who doesn't eat any meat, except fish, anymore.

[davidinalameda]

228. go way too far

I can't defend them on other boards I belong to

[LakeCohoon]

229. Another Good Idea That Went Bad n/t

[arwalden]

234. Freaks! Penn & Teller Did An Excellent Piece On PETA...

... in their Showtime series "Penn & Teller: BULLSHIT!"

[Eric J in MN]

235. Penn and Teller's tv show gives people they disagree with

seconds to respond, while giving plenty of time to critics.

It doesn't have the integrity of a live discussion panel.

[Warren DeMontague]

240. You mean the "equal rights for viruses" crowd? Real sensible.

Last big PETA event I remember hearing about was when they protested the city of New York for trying to deal with the rat infestation in the sewers. Kids dressed up like rats and holding signs in support of the poor little oppressed things...

Mmmmm-hmmmmm.

Yeah, and as a member of a Jewish family with relatives who died in the camps, I didn't really appreciate their analogy about chicken coops and Auschwitz.

Have they done some good work? Sure. But they're WAY overboard. I lived with a few animal rights activists in college. Nice people, but the priorities were a tad out of whack. In my opinion.

Do I find fur coats personally reprehensible? Sure. They're symbols of cruelty as well as obnoxiously conspicuous consumption, sort of like a hummer but worse. Foie Gras? Absolutely. I haven't touched red meat in four years and I don't support factory farming. I eat fish these days, that's about it, although I did have some free range turkey at thanksgiving, mostly because tofurkey sucks. (And I happen to like tofu)

But there are better ways to increase people's awareness with regards to compassion than endlessly scolding them and trying to criminalize their choices. We should have learned that much from the church lady contingent by now.

[SmileyBoy]

242. Three things wrong with PETA:

1) They put animals on the same pedestal as humans.
2) Forcing their beliefs on others
3) Insulting other groups of people in the proccess (i.e. Holocaust analogies)

[Tinoire]

243. An excellent organization that's to be commended

for raising the public's awareness of how much unecessary suffering goes into producing all those esthetically pleasing cellophane wrapped meats on display in the supermarkets.

We have no reverence for life in this country. No recognizance of spoiled rotten we are able to eat so much meat that half-eaten burgers are tossed into garbage bins and noses wrinkled because meat is one day past it's "sell-by" date.

Thank you Peta for thrusting the uncomfortable truths into people's faces and making us THINK.

My carnivorous pets and I thank PETA for the difference they are making.

[Quetzal]

244. Defineltly saving this thread

good source of humor on a Saturday afternoon :-)

[Endangered Specie]

246. Id like to add this picture:

[sadinred]

247. Check out their website

with the pigs getting their heads bashed in on the floor, and the cows hanging upside down by one leg from a huge conveyor all in a row getting their throats slashed. I cried through the whole thing and I LOVE meat!