Regardless of where the line is drawn...

[indigobusiness]

any discussion or debate is futile without an adequate set of facts.

The problem with the left/right political debate is the dearth of facts and conflicting definitions. The public discourse has devolved into noise, yet everyone is running around defending the meaningless squabble.

There are important issues to iron out, and serious suffering to address, but we are getting nowhere in this chaos. Let's stick to what is known clearly. And demand further clarity. BS walks.

No more allowing the hiding of embarassing data under the cloak of national security. National security is one thing, abuse of power is another. It is automatic to hide embarrassing facts behind "national security", and that is a clear abuse of power.

No more plausible denial when photographed with hand in cookie jar..."I was actually refilling the cookie jar, your honor...it just looks like I was stealing."

It must be recognized that the playing field is as unrealistic in its delineation as the game is rigged. Changing the nature of the current contest is the only way to win the real war.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Lakkof's "don't think of an elephant"

go get it and read it, will possibly be the most valuable 10 bucks you've spent in YEARS

[indigobusiness]

2. OK...want to help me out a little?

I believe I'm familiar with the reference, but what about the book?

[OneBlueSky]

3. the problem with the left/right political debate is that it's phoney . . .

a creation of the powers that be to keep the "little people" -- us -- arguing over irrelevant issues so we won't engage the REAL battle, i.e. "us" against "them" . . . the people against the power structure, which includes both political parties and their corporate sponsors . . . until we engage that battle, we're just practicing mental masturbation . . .

[indigobusiness]

4. That's what I was trying to say.

But you did it far better.

[indigobusiness]

5. Framing the discussion, meaningfully, is essential.

Requiring candor, the fully fleshing out of facts, and staunchly insisting on clarity of purpose.

Bullshit walks or the bull is castrated.