Quetion about DU'ers and WAR.

[nickshepDEM]

Im sorta new hear and for the most part I get the drift that everyone here is ANTI-WAR, Big Time! And, for the most part I am too. Ill start off by saying I am against the war in Iraq. I am against the war in Iraq because I did not feel as if they were an immediate threat to the United States and this was only justified after they found no WMD's or proof that Saddam Huesin had intentions of using WMD's on anyone. But, under certain circumstances like, after 9/11. We knew Osama Bin Laden was responsible and we were sure he was in Afghanistan. I found myself agreeing that if Afghanistan didnt want to hand him over and stop harboring terroist that we should do whatever it takes to kill him and his empire down.

Basically Im asking are most of you's ANTI-WAR completley? Or do you think there are certain circumstances that justify going to war? If so, name some of these circumstances. For example I think we all agree War was necessary durring WW II.

[LSparkle]

1. I'm anti-Bush Doctrine

meaning I'm not for pre-emptive or preventive war. But force should be used in some circumstances, like in Afghanistan (responding when attacked), and to prevent genocide (like in Bosnia). There was no threat from Iraq, so we have no reason to be there. Our efforts would be better directed toward the nightmare in Darfur.

[ET Awful]

2. Actually, you will find that many, if not most people here

are NOT completely anti-war. They are, however, completely anti-unnecessary war based on lies and bullshit propagandaa (that would include, for instance, the current Iraq fiasco and Vietnama).

As far as Afghanistan goes, many were in favor of going in, however, they were in favor of doing so and actually accomplishing the goal of capturing Bin Laden and bringing him to justice. Unfortunately, it appears that the goal of the Bush junta was NOT to capture Bin Laden, but to gain a foothold in the country.

[Killarney]

11. that explains it very well

I think war should be a last resort and there should be real reasons for it.

[bush_is_wacko]

16. My thoughts exactly!

Summed up in a nice neat ball for you!

[IrateCitizen]

3. War is never a desirable course...

... however, there have been instances throughout history in which it became unavoidable -- WWII being a prime example.

Due to its utter barbarity, through, it MUST only be pursued as an absolutely last resort. No exceptions.

[SteppingRazor]

5. Completely agree with IrateCitizen here...

And I mean a LAST resort. The fact that the human species even invented war, and has not yet found a way to put it away once and for all, really says something about the entire race.
In any case, I think it's an absolute last resort. In Afghanistan, we should have had real, achievable goals (get bin Laden, get out), instead of remaining forever to prop up whatever narco-dictatorship arises.
In Bosnia, we left after we did the job, and only went in under the auspices of the UN. Nicely done.

[K-W]

7. Exactly, war means that something has gone horribly wrong.

We should always approach war as a tragedy and a disaster to be avoided at all costs.

But there are times when there is no other choice. In those cases the war should be fought as justly as possible and be followed by a full and objective analysis of the causes of the war so that no such war will ever happen again.

The fact that the US keeps fighting the same colonial wars over and over again is a good sign that as of late the US is not looking at war in a very good way.

[immoderate]

10. Agree. As humans we can do better.

--IMM

[gratuitous]

4. Start from the premise that all war is sin

And work from there. This nation has a long history of taking up arms against our fellow human beings on the planet, for which we should feel greatly ashamed. Instead, our popular culture glorifies war anytime, everywhere, and we merrily send our young men and women off all over the world, spending our Treasury and neglecting so many of the root causes of war (the major one we let slide is the criminal inequality of sharing of resources).

When the wheel turns, and it always does, I hope the next dominant culture is kinder and more merciful to us than we have been. We surely will not deserve it.

[underpants]

6. There are some needed wars

WWII
Korea - though we really got ourselves into that situation

[K-W]

8. The wars werent needed.

I know that isnt waht you meant, but there are some people who feel that war is natural, inevitable, and even good for humanity.

Wars are wrong, entering into some wars in order to prevent an even larger wrong is sometimes neccessary.

[IrateCitizen]

12. War is never "needed" -- but it can be unavoidable

WWII fits that bill probably better than any other war in history. That's why warmongers try and draw parallels to it with their flavor-of-the-month.

Korea was not unavoidable, at least from the standpoint of the US. It was a civil war between Koreans. Surprisingly, the North Korean leaders were primarily those who had led the resistance against Japan. South Korea was headed up primarily by those who had collaborated with the Japanese occupation.

It's the same as if France had had a civil war following WWII, and we sided with the Vichy regime.

[Norwood]

9. This new democrats view on the wars

The war in Afghanistan was completely justifiable. Osama responsible for 911 and we had every right to get him. The taliban didnt want to give him over the conflict made sense. This seems to be a lie now as well. Osama is still around and the president doesnt seem to give a rats ass.

The war in Iraq is an absolute joke. We have no reason at all to be there. First it was all about WMD. Every time I turned on the TV you would hear the words "imminent threat" over and over. Then when we didnt find WMD all of a sudden we were there to "liberate" the Iraqis and spread "freedom". Its nothing but a big lie. Chimpy just wanted to show the world what a bigshot he is and do something his father couldnt. Its a damn shame so many innocent Iraqis and many of our troops had to die over a grudge. Its gonna get a lot worse before it gets better.

[DrWeird]

13. The anti-war people were right about Afghanistan.

It was a dismal failure. Osama bin Laden got away. The Taliban got away. Sharia law still reigns. We committed war crimes. The only people we killed were red cross workers and wedding goers.

I'm sorry... what was your question again?

[m berst]

14. is it a valid question?

What sane person would be opposed to fighting in self defense or in defense of their family and community?

I remember from the 60's that people were confronted with this all the time. "OK you say you are against this war in Viet Nam. Just what kind of a war WOULD you support?" It was more of a debate tactic than a sincere question.

The vast majority of all people everywhere are against all war until and unless it is absolutely necessary.

Let's not create false divisions and reinforce the right wing "peacenik" propaganda.

[gaia_gardener]

19. I consider myself sane

and I'm opposed to all war. There are better ways to accomplish your objectives. Look at Gandhi.

[m berst]

23. understood

It is sometimes necessary to use some measure of violence in self-defense - now, I hesitate to even say that, because it opens a door to the justification for violence and war. The Bush administration has people convinced that the war in Iraq is somehow a form of national self-defense.

I still maintain that there is a false dichotomy here, though. Non-violent resistance is a method that resonates with almost all people, and I am arguing against it being marginalized as a minority view or an impractical view.

I may not be explaining this well, so feel free to question what I am saying.

[RUDUing2]

15. I am anti-pre-emptive war.

[sandnsea]

17. U.S. wars & foreign policy = FUBAR

When you get past the immediate situation with Afghanistan and al qaeda, there's another reality and our foreign policy is the heart of it. The entire WASP mentality of this country for that matter. So I think there is alot of anti-American war sentiment because of US history, history that doesn't get alot of play.

On the other hand, what do we exactly do about Iraq. How cruel would it be to just up and leave millions of people to fend for themselves after you've ripped their country to shreds. Not that I expect Bush to do anything right there. I see no light in the current hellhole of Iraq, for the U.S. or the Iraqi people.

[wildeyed]

18. I am deeply opposed to the Iraq war,

but I am not a pacifist. I thought we had cause to go into Afghanistan, although I felt deeply for the Afghan civilians and I believe that Bush has mismanaged that war, too.

[jayfish]

20. Not Completely Anti-War, But...

pretty damn close. The only time I support US forces going to war are when we are defending against an invader or helping someone else who is.

Jay

[Bigmack]

21. "War is a racket"...

Wars.. good and bad.. mostly benefit the corporate bosses and the rich.

How about a couple of quotes from 2 famous Marines..
Gen. Shoup was Commandant of the Marine Corps during the first part of my time in. Gen Butler... well, two Medals of Honor says it all.

These quotes are available from multiple sources.. look 'em up.
--------
"I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar-soaked fingers out of the business of these nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own -- and if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the "haves" refuse to share with the "have-nots" by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don't want and above all don't want crammed down their throats by Americans."

General David M. Shoup, May 14, 1966
Commandant of the Marine Corps 1960-63,
and winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor

------
"War is a racket. Our stake in that racket has never been greater in all out peace-time history. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914.

I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in . I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long.

I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-12. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras 'right' for American fruit companies in 1903...

"Looking back on it, I feel I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three city districts. We Marines operated on three continents"

--Marine Corps Major General Smedley D. Butler. Twice wounded in action and twenty times decorated, Smedley Butler was also one of the few Americans to be twice awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.

[rman]

22. Wars are almost exclusively fought over resources,

And most of the wealth associated with those resources ends up in the pockets of a wealthy influential minority.

If only we'd have real democracy, war would be avoidable.

[dawn_fayhe]

24. WARS ARE FOR LOSERS

We should never need to fight a war ever .

[MrSlayer]

25. I'm not anti-war, I'm against war for profit.

If we were ever invaded I would be the first one in line to defend the country but I will not support a war based on lies for profit.