Is it time for a Christian revolution?

[murray hill farm]

A time for Christians who believe and live the words of Christ, to take back their religion? Membership is money..it is survival to churches. What would happen if true Christians refused to stay with churches that in their actions and laws and beliefs are more "anti Christian" than true Christian. May be time to starve that beast..the Christian religions and churches that continue to preach intolerance and bigotry and sexism and hatred in the name of Christ. And....considering the way things are going...a path to take back our country as well.

[BamaLefty]

1. Yes

I am able to see through the smoke and mirrors of the Republicans and their "moral values." BamaLefty is a liberal, Christian, Democrat... just like Jesus. Whadda you know? :(

[Az_lefty]

2. I couldn't agree more....

as a Christian I'm sick and tired of the wackos hi-jacking my faith and trying to turn it into a pseudo American-Taliban.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Just wondering:

How many christians out there have real consciences, rather than a quasi-religious philosophy and socio-religious social mechanism that makes decisions for them? Kinda like a cult.

I am not seeing a lot of discernment and free will lately, but I am sure some still exists.

I am not being flippant or sarcastic, I assure you.

[Ms_Mary]

22. Count me as one. nt

[TexasBushwhacker]

4. I think that would be wonderful ...

but I wonder how possible it is. In a city of any size, families may have a choice in which church they attend, but in small town America, sometimes there's only one Baptist church, or one Catholic or whatever. I have a friend who attends a "born again" type Baptist church and she's had other church members tell her she was going to hell for being a Democrat!

[murray hill farm]

7. A gathering then?

doesnt it go that "whenever you gather in my name, i am there"..or something along those lines.

[belle]

36. "House churches."

http://www.hccentral.com/

I think at the moment, it's mostly far-right fringe sects who do this; but there's no reason why liberal and moderate Christians who don't feel like their local church suits them couldn't do this, too...

[DrWeird]

5. Are there enough real Christian liberals to make it happen?

I'd hope so. But I'm not optimistic.

[Arianrhod]

37. I have to wonder the same thing.

The vast majority of Christians I have ever known, and still know, are of the Fundamentalist variety. I grew up in Orange County, California, where there is a Fundamentalist church on every other corner (the corners where there aren't strip malls). I have never encountered a "liberal" church in my life. I don't even know what one would look like.

One could argue that doing Jesus' works inherently prevents a "true" Christian from making noise about him/herself. Perhaps. But one thing I read about Jesus in the Gospels, is that he made an awful lot of noise, garnering the attention of every Roman and Jewish leader in the land. Great crowds supposedly followed him from place to place. He wasn't "behind the scenes" at all; on the contrary, he was on the front lines.

While I have respect for those Christians who are actively seeking a more humble place in life, I can't say that I would want to depend on them to change the institutionalized Church. I don't think there's enough of them; I don't think they have any power; and I think they will be just as persecuted as we non-Christians under the current regime. In fact, I hope their faith gives them enough strength to be able to withstand being lumped together with pagans like me; they're going to need it. :(

[distantearlywarning]

6. I couldn't agree more.

The only problem is: I already don't go to church because I realized years ago that all these people were not really following the teachings of Christ. Organized Christianity is for the evil people (yes, that's a generalization, but is also sadly true in most cases).

I've been boycotting church for 15 years, and nobody has listened or cared yet. I think there are many like me out there.

[Coyote_Bandit]

8. Yes!

And if you believe in miracles pray that I can find a secular publisher. I am committed to - and actively working on - writing the manifesto.

I spent 7 years studying at Six Flags Over Jesus - history, business, poly sci, education, law. Some of my professors and classmates have penned some of the inspirational tomes of the religious right. I can speak for progressive believers. But I need a platform and a means of distribution. Needless to say, financial reward is not my motivation.

[murray hill farm]

9. Wow!!

I didnt expect this...i am amazed! And grateful! Yes, the "antichrist" Christian churches have grown powerful..and have stolen not only Christianity...but now our country with their power and money and all the influence that carries with it...and all that has to happen is for Christians to take back their faith..by leaving those churches and taking their financial support along with them. I so appreciate the work you are doing.

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. My Work is Useless without a Means of Mass Distribution

Faith based decisions can only be challenged with faith based rationale. Logic and facts alone will be ineffective. Many of the sheeple are sincere idealists and will respond. They are being manipulated by a cherry-picked incomplete political agenda. And nobody likes it when they realize they have been manipulated and used to further someone else's cause.

[murray hill farm]

17. The Unitarian Church!!

They have their own publishing house for books of interest..and wide distribution, as well.

[Az]

25. Unitarian Universalists Publishing

Check here for distribution to UUs http://www.uniuniques.com/

[Coyote_Bandit]

33. Thanks for the Suggestions

I am in the process of first approaching and seeking a literary agent - with the hope of securing publication and distribution through one of the big publishing houses (or a subsidary). Many of these houses will not consider unagented queries, proposals or submissions. Granted, it is a long shot but it would secure the widest distribution. My message is truly unique (at least I haven't seen or heard it from either the religious left or the religious right) and its intended presentation is such that it could appeal to multiple audiences. If that is not successful I will then begin approaching smaller publishers.

[Arianrhod]

38. Get started with a semi-self-publishing house like XLibris.

For $500, they help you edit your manuscript, then put it together into a Net-based sales medium like Amazon or Barnes and Noble. Advertising is left up to you, and of course your stuff is buried in the long list of other books. But I know of people who have attracted mainstream publishers by this method, and one or two whose work was even published by XLibris itself, under its mainstream imprint.

It's not a great way to publish, but it could get the seeds planted.

[Az]

24. Secular Publisher

Try here http://www.prometheusbooks.com/ This is the publishing arm of the Secular Humanists. It is a very open minded publishing group.

[proud patriot]

10. Read Bishop Spong's work

:hi: I have his book "A new Christianity for a new world"
pretty intriguing stuff.

[Perky]

11. I disagree

However, ignorant, bigoted and hateful they appear to be. many fundies love God more then their party of choice.

Jesus never turned his back on the wicked pharisees...but he challenged them continually for being whitw0washed seplucheres of the authentic,


I choose to stand and fight.. I w ill not allow by brother in Christ to wallow in this idolatry I will not surrender my faith to the idolators. What they need is a healthy dose of Jesus.

[autorank]

13. Abandon all hope ye who enter there. All hope for that path is lost.

:evilgrin:

[newscaster]

14. I think you are looking at the wrong villains.

Its not the preachers, pastors, ministers or whatever they call themselves. Its the (quote) "bible colleges" that "teach" these people to create so many fundamentalist charismatic wackos.

A friend of mine who has a PhD in Biology and a masters in Theology (Yes, I know...a strange combination). Both degrees came from Georgetown University. In the seventies, he enrolled in a bible college to see what they were teaching their preacher-wannabees.
He came out shaken. He said the curriculum contains such BS as not to be believed. Not on faulty theology, but faulty everything in almost every subject.

These combination bible school and storm door companies, are creating a generation of uninformed preachers and secular dunces. Is it any wonder that the beliefs we hear espoused today are so off the wall?

[Wind Dancer]

15. The graduates from those bible colleges are making

a ton of money using religion as a brainwashing tool. They do not preach the teachings of Christ.

[Ladyhawk]

16. It's past time. Go for it!

I'm an atheist who supports the religious left. So there.

[murray hill farm]

18. Very cool!

ha! god love atheists the most, it is said...somewhere..ha

[sendero]

19. Should have happened long ago..

... but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

See, I doubt if even a majority of people who call themselves Christians in this country are interested in the true teachings of Jesus.

They are just using Christianity to justify their hatreds and prejudices like the "leaders" are using it to grab money and power.

[hollowdweller]

20. I don't think Jesus ever intended us to have churches and worship him

I think he intended for us to live his example of compassion and unselfish love for humanity. If people band together in churches to do His work that's ok, but to have bake sales and sing hymns and do all these rituals. I always felt like that was babylon.

[Nordic]

21. I would probably be a Christian .... if it weren't for all the "Christians

It's too embarrassing

[Az]

23. Tricky

We are dealing with some major socialogical and psychological issues here. Simply put the religious right does not see itself as bigots, sexist, homophobic, or any manner of intolerant. In fact they see their position simply as correct. And that is the crux of the matter.

Belief. It is an extrordinary thing. Everyone believes things. Its the nature of our mind. What our mind comes to believe defines the universe around us. It is the fulcrum on which we balance all we view.

Allow me to use some extremes. The religious right has a firm belief in their doctrine. From this they derive a firm belief in what qualifies as moral. Good vs Evil (note the caps). (now here comes the extreme) What would you say to someone imploring you to be tolerant of someone raping your sister. This is something you likely have a clearly defined sense of right or wrong about. In fact you would probably be quite comfortable referring to this action as evil. You would not be in the least interested in discussing the broader social ramifications of this action or where the aggressors needs are derived from.

This is the sort of situation we face with the religious right. They are quite certain that the things the oppose are Evil. Trying to reason with them will meet with failure. They believe they are right and any suggestion to the contrary will be seen as Evil.

Moderate and Liberal Christians have managed to embrace two ideas. On the one hand they have their belief in God and Jesus. But they also have embraced the ideas of Humanism. That is that in this termporal existance when dealing with other humans of varying beliefs we cannot impose our beliefs on them. We have to extend them the same rights we demand to believe as we see fit. You can still respect the person despite not sharing exact beliefs. You have in common your humanity.

But the religious right rejects Humanism. They base all their interaction on the other individuals professed acceptance of God and percieved similarity of beliefs in regard to that. They know they are right and therefor will not tolerate any Evil. They look to moderate and liberal Christians and not having real faith. They see Jesus' teachings as devisive. Designed to seperate those who are strong in their faith from those who turn their back's on Jesus.

The problem from the left's side is that we embrace tolerance. We defend the right of others to have their own beliefs. We even encourage alternative views. Thus our view never gets pushed forward. In fact we reject the notion of pressing our views. Thus the right with their strong arm tactics of trying to force their views on the world are effective unopposed. Their numbers will grow as much as the society can functionally allow while the left atrophies over time.

[murray hill farm]

26. So well said!!

Depressing, but well said..ha! There is though, the humanistic belief that humans are basically good..and that the orientation is always toward health in the physical, as well as the social and emotional condition of being a human. For what that is worth.

[distantearlywarning]

27. Amen! I posted about this exact same problem in another thread tonight!

Glad to see someone else here on the same page.

[Coyote_Bandit]

30. Faith based decisions

will only be changed for faith based reasons.

Reason, logic, tolerance and humanism will not change the religious right or their agenda.

Some can be enlightened - provided they are approached on their own turf, using their own lingo, showing the internal and external Biblical inconsistency and incompleteness of their agenda.

[m berst]

28. shouldn't be difficult to understand

The mechanism by which so many Christians have been politicized and co-opted by reactionary politicians should not be so difficult to understand, because we have been witnessing the same mechanism at work here among DU members recently.

Many here so desperately want to be faithful to certain causes - exposing the election fraud is a recent incarnation - that they are willing to blindly follow anyone who poses as a leader(savior) and they will turn on their fellow members in the community of they express any doubt(heresy) and common sense and reason are suspended "for the cause." DU has often had the feel lately of a very intolerant and bigoted religious cult-like revival meeting attacking its heretics and seeking to ex-communicate them.

It is always easy to see the other person's errors. Not so easy to see our own.

[genieroze]

29. Amen. eom

[raysr]

31. I don't give a

FUCK what xians do as long as they stay away from me.

[Az]

32. Then they win

Its society you see. We live in it. We exist in it. If you choose not to partake in shaping it then those that do try to shape it will win. And once they shape it to their theocratic state they will seek out those who do not fit in it and instruct them in the advantages of belonging to it.... they will strongly instruct them.

[juslikagrzly]

34. Answers, they want unambiguous answers

For years, my minister husband and I have been talking about why the christian right even exists. What drives these people to send their last dollar to some big-haired tv evangelist, in the hopes that Jesus will deliver them from their miserable existence?

What we have come up with is the lack of critical thinking skills, or even the desire to question anything. Ambiguity is difficult, shades of gray require reflection, decision making, NOT KNOWING THE ANSWER. The religious right provides their followers with answers, truth.

This also seems to explain why * could be re-elected. He provides answers---and it doesn't matter that the answers he gives are based on false information or just plain lies. He offers something to hold on to, something to parrot back when confronted with reality.

Much of this can be traced to the poor quality (lack of adequate funding, ridiculous mandates like NCLB) of our education system. Students from kindergarten thru grad school are not encouraged to be critical thinkers. They learn from an early age that what is required of them is to regurgitate the "right answer".

Rampant greed and capitalism run amok also encourages this "right/wrong" "bottom line" mentality.

But, the good news is, there are many more faithful lefties out here than most imagine. We've just been too complacent, too tolerant, too unwilling to offend, too timid to state our values loudly and proudly. I believe this is changing. In our small town, we've got a great group of folks together to take back our moral stance.

They just have a 30 year lead on us......but we're here.....and we're working hard on it!

[murray hill farm]

35. Everything follows the money

If all of us who have rejected the idea of belonging to a Christian church, because all we have seen is how warped and down right evil so many have become..and we just, then, reject the whole idea of Christianity...well, then the evil grows...these churches that have warped the whole of Christianity grow in numbers..and in power as the money from membership increases. If all of us who have walked away would join a Christian religion..or church..that did reflect in action and belief the teachings of Christ...and there are such churches..then these would begin to grow as their membership grew. Recently, the UCC has run adds..pointing out that they are not like the "antichrist" Christian churches that are so powerful and inclusive..that they welcome us..all of us..this is a start.

[brainwashed]

39. revolution

As a concerned atheist, I would consider allying myself with those christians who feel the dominionists have gone beserk and hijacked their religion. For more info on just how insidious these guys are, see:

http://www.theocracywatch.org

[readmoreoften]

40. please do start a revolution

it's hard to take the christian left seriously because it hasn't laid out a passionate fight against one of its most ruthless enemies: the RW.

instead I hear a lot of pleading for the non-religious left to 'all christians aren't bad!' I know they're not. But I'd like to see that reflected not just in words but deeds.

I think if you win, you'll win a lot of souls for your cause. And I think you have as much to lose as the rest of us.

[jamboi]

41. Yes! n/t

[Skidmore]

42. It's time to snatch the Enlightenment from the jaws of the

postmodern Dark Ages. This whole thing is not about theology even, it is about power. It is the priest class reasserting its power over men and they are willing to sacrifice the collective good for mankind to the twin gods of greed and power. It has happened in the past. It is happening again.

[ScaRBama]

43. Here is the real problem that most people don't get.....

Just because somebody says they are a Christian doesn't make them a Christian. If a person doesn't shine a true light,bear good fruit and have love for his fellow man he is only a wolf in sheep's clothing.
As Christ said...MANY shall come in my name saying I am Christ and shall deceive many.
Most think he his talking about some wacko walking around telling everyone that he himself is Jesus Christ. How many people out there would ever fall for that? Not 1% of the population would ever follow a wacko like that to ever have the chance of being deceived....NO WAY.

Christ is saying that MANY will come in his name claiming to be a Christian and will deceive many people from the truth.
They will preach and teach that Jesus Christ is the Christ but they bear no good fruit. They claim to be something that they are not, but deceive many into believing they are the REAL DEAL.