Just a reminder: We are all complicit in this bloodbath

[DerekG]

In observing the frothing brownshirts who populate this country--and they are legion--it's tempting to congratulate each other around here, proud of our relative civility and, dare I say, sanity. But allow me--out of my own self-loathing--to burst this bubble.

We all live in this empire, and we are all guilty as hell.

Much of the apparel we purchase, after all, was fashioned via slave labor, the gasoline we pour into our cars and lawnmowers is mixed with blood, and--unless one is a war tax resister--it is our money that is used to fund the manufacturing of bombs that scorch Iraqi children.

It is we who neglect to mention the hundreds of thousands, the millions of victims who fell under the swords of Democratic administrations, and it is we--through the best of intentions--who voted for a pro-war candidate and chided those individuals, whether they be prominent or fellow DUers, who called said nominee out for his lies.

We are all complicit, trapped in a labyrinth of systematic evil; I just don't know how we're gonna get the hell out.

On edit: Please don't take me to be self-righteous; the disgust I direct towards myself is comparable to the vitriol I hurl at Bushco.

[4morewars]

1. I was going to argue with you....

But I can't come up with anything that doesn't sound really feeble and weak.

[The Straight Story]

2. See my thread here: (WHY should we care at all???)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2141739&mesg_id=2141739

Is bush superior to us (in an evolutionary way)?

[Somawas]

8. In an evolutionary way

he is proof that the word 'descent," as in "The Descent of Man" means "going lower," as in the notion of man having descended from apes.

[realisticphish]

24. but

going lower does NOT mean he is not superior...i judge superiority by survival, and ill be damned if he doesnt keep on surviving, and doing it well; well referring to "living" status, not to personal qualities


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[forgethell]

3. Speak for yourself,

I've got enough to feel guilty about for things that I, personally, have actually done. I am not taking on any mythical "collective guilt" for anything. I did what I could to ensure the good guys won, and that was all I could do. Anytime I've done that, win or lose, I sleep with a clear conscience if not necessarily an unworried mind.

But I repeat, you can only assume guilt for yourself. Leave me out of it.

[Kitka]

6. Hmmm.

Guilt still lies with those who won't admit to it. "Doing what you could" includes a lot more than being involved at election time. Unless more people DO feel some guilt that they're not doing more, nothing is going to change, like it or not.

[forgethell]

12. Yet, who are you

to judge? Only I am a competent judge of what I have done. It's not like a crime has been committed of which I am accused and on trial for. Oh, sure, maybe I could have put in a few dollars more, or gone to another protest meeting. If I didn't have a life outside politics. But, I still see no need to assume guilt for things that I didn't do.

I think part of the problem with progressives, more so than with conservatives, is that we spend too much energy emoting, and not enough acting. I did my share, by my standards, and I won't have anyone else tell me that I should have done more. We lost, by fair means, or foul. Maybe a recount will change that, maybe not. But when it's over, why agonize over what you can't change. I sure most of us know the Serenity Prayer.

[Kitka]

16. I'm not judging you.

I have no idea what you do. I'm simply pointing out that the obvious reaction, getting defensive and refusing to acknowledge we can do more, is damaging to us as a whole. I'm not talking about putting in a couple more dollars to a campaign, I'm talking about being mindful of our everyday actions and how they either buy in to the system we're all bitching about so much or helping take it down. If you don't feel you can do more, fine, but you're wrong. We can all do more.

[forgethell]

26. Fair enough.

We can probably all do more. But all I am saying is that we need feel no guilt about the results. We did what we could, and either we couldn't convince the American people to see things our way, or the dumb Republican operatives outsmarted the thousands of slick Democratic lawyers and observers and sophisticated international observers who were all over the the polling places. Neither alternative seems pleasant to contemplate.

But we should use out energy in planning and action instead of anger and self-pity, and unearned guilt. That's all that I'm saying.

Merry Christmas :)

[DeepGreen]

10. I don't think we can look at this on a personal level.

I drive a car that gets over 40 mpg. I have to
to get to work. That is about all the driving
I do.
I protested the war.
I sent letters of protest to local news orgs.
I contribute to liberal causes.
I don't travel.
I try to buy from those that supported Kerry.
.
.
And, I still agree with the post. And, I still don't
know how we are going to get ourselves out of this
dark, evil hole.

Something else has to happen and I believe it is not
something anyone can do individually.

[forgethell]

13. Guilt is personal,

"collective guilt" is nonsense. And, yeah, I take it personally.

[DeepGreen]

14. I don't feel guilty about anything,,,

I feel worried, sad, tense,,,,
I am in this situation not because I
choose to be. I was born here.

[forgethell]

18. Worried is OK

with the world in the state it is, I'm worried, too. But not guilty.

[DeepGreen]

19. I understand. I think we are in similar spaces.

[billie_]

21. Hey DeepGreen read my rant & help me "think tank" n/t

[bhikkhu]

22. Nov. 3, Sleepytime?

I hope you will forgive a little needling, but after the election is when "all we can do" is really needed. The water is rising in the hold, and I think you might consider the consequences of sitting out the next four years.

As far as guilt, I still feel guilty about Wounded Knee, but I get along with it. What I can't do is relax now, knowing what can happen in the future, what the "powers that be" are capable of, what sort of world my children will inherit. In any case, there was no endpoint to either election outcome where a person should rest and cease to advocate their beliefs.

[forgethell]

25. Did I say that we should quit?

I think not!!!! I said I have no guilt about the situation. You were not even born when Wounded Knee happened. If you feel guilt about it, then you seriously need therapy. Sorry, but that is the way I see it when a person feels guilt that he hasn't earned. Wallowing in self-righteousness and self-pity never helped anyone.

Unless you are a much better person than most, you probably have things you should feel guilty about. A friend you have hurt or betrayed, a dishonest act, etc. Feel guilty about those. Hell, if you want to feel guilty about the election, or American social or foreign policies, feel free. But don't try to make me feel guilty for what I have no control over.

And, man, you have to get over Wounded Knee, slavery, the conquest of America, etc. Those are done deals and cannot now be changed. Look to the future where you can have some impact.

Merry Christmas:-)

[snoochie]

30. I think this misunderstanding may be due to your choice of words.

You said "I did what I could" and something else similar that made it appear that you were done now that the bushies were in.

[forgethell]

34. Sorry about the confusion.

My only point is that I, personally, have nothing to feel guilty about, and that I resent, deep down in my bones, someone trying to get me to accept guilt for things of which I am not guilty. No one can apologize me orfor someone else. If needed, I'll do it myself


Merry Christmas :)

[bhikkhu]

41. Well Said

And on another level, I would agree that guilt in general is of little use.

As far as Wounded Knee, perhaps I carry it in me as a reminder of what this country is made of. The present is formed from the past, and to some extent dictates the future. Examining the past crimes of ones culture enables an understanding of oneself. The behavioral tendencies and cultural self image that led to the slaughters and enforced assimilation of all cultures unlike our own are still present and active today. Guilt may be a dysfunctional way of approaching it, but it is easier than the intellectual method.

In any case, the present is built upon the past, and the future proceeds from the present. Wounded Knee and countless other slaughters are much closer in time and far more relevant than I would wish them to be, and I don't imagine you would wish they be forgotten.

[DeepGreen]

4. You are right !!!

My dream is that all 50+ million of us who voted for Kerry hit the streets at the same time. Something has to break!
I feel like I am in limbo, powerless, waiting for something.
Whatever it takes, whatever it is, I hope it comes soon.

[Kitka]

5. Well, I didn't chide anyone who called Kerry out for his lies,

because I was one of them, but I agree with the rest of your post. I don't know how to convince others it's important enough to be more conscious and how to make myself more selfless as well. It's very hard to not feel overwhelmed sometimes.

[aquart]

9. Kerry's lies?

Would you care to be explicit?

[Kitka]

15. Not really interesting in getting into a huge debate over this at this

point because it's really pointless. I voted for Kerry and campaigned for him as well. But yes, Kerry said that he stood for things that his voting record didn't support. I've never been one to judge someone harshly for changing their mind, I think it's admirable when a politician can admit they came across a bigger picture and changed positions. But I do not believe that Kerry was always doing that. He talks about how Bush is the one who supports curtailing civil liberties, but he supported most of the PATRIOT act and said not one word while people's civil liberties were being stripped outside the DNC. He said that he was focused on keeping jobs in the U.S., but has always been a huge free trade supporter (NAFTA, WTO, World Bank, IMF)... He said he wanted to bring the troops home, but his platform also called for 40,000 additional troops to active duty. He says Bush's policy is irresponsible and his is not, yet says that ”Every nation has the right to act preemptively if it faces an imminent and grave threat." Erm, well, that's Bush's policy, isn't it?

Sorry if I offend by stating the parts of Kerry's campaign that to me were sometimes lies, sometimes simple hypocracy. As I said, I still voted for and supported him, but did not forfeit my right to speak against his faults.

[radwriter0555]

28. Kerry didn't lie. Like MOST americans, he's a true believer... it takes a

certain 'something' to have the courage to see the truth around us, and even more so to speak up against it.

[Kitka]

38. Er, okay. If he's a true believer, I obviously just don't believe in

100% same things that he's a "true believer" in. I wish Kerry would speak up against more of the things I see going wrong, but ah well.

[disconnected]

7. i suppose we could join an amish community

seriously, if i could figure my way out of this mess i'd withdraw every bit of my support of the beast...and the frustration of not knowing how to escape can drive you mad.
it's sobering when you look at things in that context...I know I am responsible for the suffering of others, I know there is blood on my hands...To know the evil and not to be able to see any way to avoid it.
I hate all this so much I wanna just set up a tent somewhere, consume as little as possble, and hide.

[radwriter0555]

29. Mexico is a lovely and grand country, rich in history, culture and family.

In all my travels, I STILL love and return to mexico... there is something about it that feeds my soul.

[Minstrel Boy]

11. A White Rose for Fallujah

On the eve of the United States Marines' campaign to cure Fallujah of the "cancer" of resistance, I made small revisions to the fourth, fifth and sixth leaflets of the White Rose, the clandestine anti-Nazi student resistance cell, and posted to my blog here.


A Call to All Americans!

The war is approaching its destined end. It has become a mathematical certainty that Bush is leading the United States into the abyss. Bush cannot win the war; he can only prolong it. The guilt of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and their minions goes beyond all measure. Retribution comes closer and closer.

But what are the American people doing? They will not see and will not listen. Blindly they follow their seducers into ruin. "Whatever it takes!" is inscribed on their banner. "Mission accomplished," says Bush, but in the meantime the mission has already been lost.

Americans! Do you and your children want to suffer the same fate that befell the souls of Abu Ghraib? Do you want to be judged by the same standards as your tyrants? Are we to be forever a nation which is hated and rejected by all mankind? No. Dissociate yourselves from blind thuggery masquerading as patriotism. Prove by your deeds that you think otherwise. A new war of liberation must begin, and the better part of the nation will fight on our side. Cast off the cloak of indifference you have wrapped around you. Make the decision before it is too late. Do not believe the propaganda which has driven the fear of Islam into your bones. Do not believe that America's welfare is linked to perpetuating the lies of the "War on Terror" for good or ill. A criminal regime cannot achieve a just victory. Separate yourselves in time from everything connected with the machineries which would enslave you and dull your wits. In the aftermath a terrible but just judgement will be meted out to those who stayed in hiding, who were cowardly and hesitant.

Every word that comes from Bush's mouth is a lie. When he says peace, he means war, and when he blasphemously uses the name of the Almighty, he means the power of evil, the fallen angel, Satan. His mouth is the foul-smelling maw of Hell, and his might is at bottom accursed. True, we must conduct a struggle against the fraudulent terrorist state with rational means; but whoever today still doubts the reality, the existence of demonic powers, has failed by a wide margin to understand the metaphysical background of our struggle. Behind the concrete, the visible events, behind all objective, logical considerations, we find the irrational element: The struggle against the demon; against the servants of the Antichrist.

What can we learn from the outcome of this war - this war that never was a necessary or just war?

The wicked Bush doctrine must be shattered for all time. The radical right must never again be allowed to assume power. Only in large-scale cooperation among the nations of the world can the ground be prepared for mutual security. Every nation and each individual has a right to the goods of the whole world, and each the responsibility to be good stewards thereof.

"Freedom" and "democracy"! For four long years Bush and his cabal have manhandled, squeezed, twisted, and debased these two splendid American words to the point of nausea, as only dilettantes can, casting the highest values of a nation before swine. They have sufficiently demonstrated in their years of destruction of all material and intellectual freedom, of all moral substance among the American people, what they understand by freedom and democracy. The frightful bloodbath should open the eyes of even the stupidest American - it is a slaughter which they arranged in the name of bringing "freedom" and "democracy" throughout the Middle East, and which they daily start anew. The name of the United States is dishonored for all time if American youth does not finally rise, take revenge, and atone, smash its tormentors, and found a new republic based upon the dead republic's principals.

Americans! The world looks to us. As in 1776 it saw us shake off the yoke of tyranny, so in 2004 it looks to us to smash the fascist terror by the power of our just cause. Iraq is burning in the East. The dead of Fallujah implore us to take action.

Up, up, my people - let smoke and flame be our sign!

[sangh0]

40. Why don't you go first, and show us how it's done?

Up, up, my people - let smoke and flame be our sign!

How brave of you to post those words. Now demonstrate your courage and practice what you preach. If you don't listen to your own advice, why should anyone else risk jail or death by doing the same?

[Taxloss]

17. So stop!

Sell your car and buy your clothes from ethical or second-hand sources. If that's impossible, move somewhere it isn't - economies listen to people who vote with their feet.

If that's a pipe-dream, campaign for the things that will make it come true for you where you live right now. Getting better pedestrian routes in your neighbourhood is easier than ending the war in Iraq - and if you're in a suburb, where local services are impossible, MOVE.

Ditch the lawn and the lawnmower, for a start. It's an unproductive monoculture that you pour money and resources into and can't eat. Grow a herb and vegetable garden (if you want practicality), sow wildflowers (if you want aesthetics), or pave over it (if you want to use the space for having supper when the weather's nice).

[snoochie]

32. No, please don't pave!

That upsets the water balance and eventually causes water shortages.

[billie_]

20. i cannot disagree with you Derek n/t

[bhikkhu]

23. I agree, we are all complicit...

In youth I thoughtlessly pursued wealth and disregarded politics. The taxes I paid went to a government I was little concerned with. I imagine I subsidized the purchase of many bullets, and some of these may now be embedded in the heads of innocents. Knowing this, I have changed my economic behavior and my political awareness. I would do anything to change the past, but lacking that, I hope to help the people here to affect the future.

[bhikkhu]

42. But then again, this has been a bad week...

and sometimes on this kind of argument I get the feeling my thoughts are nothing but crap, and entirely avoid the points of importance.

[radwriter0555]

27. Another reason I'm leaving. I can no longer be responsible in part for the

idiotic run away consumerism, greed and gluttony that fuels this nation of plastic houses, 2 mile per gallon cars, and disposable clothing and kids.

I don't want one more dollar of my taxes going to bush and his coming Reich, the New Uhmurrikkkan GOP nazis. The New Americanazis, the Bushnazis, whatever we want to call them.

I'm moving to Italy in June. I just put the house up for sale.

I intend to open an internet cafe and maybe, just maybe a little cafe in Venice.

If anyone wants to join me, contact me via PM. I would love to coordinate on housing.

This nation's free, open, fair and honest elections are a thing of the past, now, only a footnote in history. I will be one of the first they put in the camps, and I don't want to be here for it.

[bhikkhu]

43. Good luck. Say hi to berlusconi for me.

I hear he's a really nice guy.

But sarcasm aside, I envy you, and wish you well.

[shadowknows69]

31. The options left are few and dangerous

You're 100% right Derek, we all share in the sin our country commits unless we put a stop to it but our options are few and dangerous. It's pretty clear they have enough of the populace brainwashed into pure submission. The majority of the big money they protect won't threaten their greed machines by having scruples and we have a leader who's people have him convinced his s*it doesn't stink.
They'd understand large scale boycotts of outsourced products and the retailers who deal in them, but if some of us can't shop Wal-Mart these days we can't afford to shop anywhere. Now that even the holiday season has proven unable to provide our economy with a temporary boost the Board's of Directors everywhere will be demanding new cuts to insure that all powerful god of theirs the annual profit increase.
Going to Canada seems like a good plan unless you truly believe(like many) that the neo-con policy of world and more importantly natural resource conquest won't end with the middle east. You're either with us or against us Canada and eventually we'll need your shit to fight this war on terror.
The other options don't need to be said because of obvious reasons but I think we know what they are and what the consequences would be. Only thing I know for sure is we don't have a lot of time.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

33. NO, GEORGE, YOU WILL NEVER BE MY PRESIDENT! ...disclaimer:.......

Nov.4, 2004

No, it’s not what you think, George, It’s not that you managed to win this time around. No, it’s not that at all. It’s not about sour grapes, George, and it’s not about anger. You just can’t be my President, George. No way.

Good speech writers, George – all that stuff about being a President for all the people - and those heartfelt appeals for togetherness. Nice touch. But, you just can’t be my President, George, I’m sorry, but that’s the way it is.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not about your failed policies, I could survive them. It’s not about your arrogance or your inability to see the error of your ways. I could deal with that for another four years. It’s not even about your right wing ideology or your faith driven narrow mindedness. Heck, we’re a pluralistic society, and we can agree to disagree. It’s not that at all.

It’s not even about the lies. Politicians lie, and some of them even manage to lie about really important things. I could hope you’d mend your ways and tell the truth from now on. So, it’s not about the lies. Much as I abhor a liar, that’s not it. It really isn’t.

It’s not about your medieval attitude toward stem cell research, George, or a woman’s right to choose. It’s not about your archaic views about gay marriage or your dangerous disdain for the environment. It’s not even that. It’s not even about your being in bed with the NRA or the pharmaceutical companies. You’re not the first, and you won’t be the last to do that. No, George, that’s not why you won’t pass muster. It really isn’t.

So what is it, then? Do you really want to know? Do you really care why you cannot, - I repeat – cannot be my president, - not now and not ever?

Do you really want to understand why I openly and defiantly refuse to accept you as my President? Do you, really, George? No, you don’t. But I’ll tell you anyway:

YOU CANNOT BE MY PRESIDENT, GEORGE BUSH, BECAUSE YOU HAVE SULLIED AND DENIGRATED THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY. THAT’S WHY!

I can give you some details, if you’re at all interested. I’ll list only a few of the more serious transgressions of your first term. Then, perhaps, you’ll understand why you cannot be my President for a second one.

Oh, by the way, going into the election, most Americans had very little, if any, information about many of your actions as their President. The corporate media in this country acted as your mouthpiece, you know that. The corporate media protected you every inch of the way and told the American public only what you wanted them to know. They promoted your fear and terror campaign with great fanfare and drama. They supported your deceptions and your fabrications, and turned a blind eye to your incompetence. The corporate media, most notably the bogus TV news networks, became your lapdogs, and in the end, the people had no clue.

But I did, as did many millions of informed Americans. I knew what you did, and I knew what you didn’t do, and what you were incapable of doing. It is so clear that you abused the power of the Presidency, and you used your position to dismantle the legacy of leadership that came with the job. That’s precisely why I claim the moral imperative to say that you cannot be my President, George. No way.

In explanation, in case you still don’t understand, and for the record, - here’s a short list of your unpardonable offenses:

· You committed a clearly impeachable act by manipulating and distorting intelligence information to further your preconceived plans for war.

· You exploited the nation’s anguish on 9/11 to justify a war you had planned long before that date.

· You spent more than a year trying to ·prevent an independent inquiry into the causes of the attacks on 9/11.

· You withheld and falsely classified information that would allow the American people access to vital information about the attacks of 9/11.

· You sent the ·Sec. of State to the United Nations with fabricated evidence to support your false claim that war against Iraq was urgent.

· By invading and occupying Iraq, you violated the United Nations Charter, to which the United States is a signatory.

· You waged an illegal and immoral war against a non belligerent nation, killing 100,000 of its civilians, and maiming thousands more.

· You sent American and coalition military men and women into harm’s way without adequate war plans, without adequate armor and equipment, without adequate plans for the occupation, and without an exit strategy.

· Your unnecessary war of choice in Iraq has resulted in the deaths of nearly 1200 soldiers and in serious injury to thousands more.

· You knowingly violated the Geneva Convention by allowing torture and abuse at prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay.

· You unlawfully detained prisoners taken in the war against Afghanistan without charges or legal counsel at Guantanamo Bay.

· You unlawfully detained thousands of people in the US without charges or access to legal counsel under the Patriot Act, – and have not convicted a single one of any crime.

· You arranged for personal benefactors and friends to earn huge profits from your war.

· You ignored and refused to investigate the outing of a CIA agent, whose husband had exposed your fabrication for war.

· Your invasion of Iraq has led to unending chaos and violence within the country and endangers the stabilization of the entire Middle East.

· Your war has significantly increased membership in worldwide terrorist groups, making our country and the world far more unsafe.

· You made our country the most feared and reviled in the world, and our President the most hated in history.

I could go on, but I think these will do, Mr. Bush. Do you understand, now? Can you see why I cannot, under any circumstances, allow you to be my President?

You see, before you took office last time, George, the Presidency of the United States of America was the most respected and most honored office in the entire world. The President of this country was looked up to as the leader of the free world. He was cheered and welcomed and respected all over the world, George, all over the world, Think about that.

You changed all that, George. You are not respected anywhere in the world. You’re feared and distrusted by our most valued allies. You can’t go anywhere in the entire world without huge crowds coming to protest your visit….nowhere, George, not even London. Imagine. But it gets worse. Before this election, they only hated you. Now, the entire world believes that Americans all support your election. Now they hate us, too. Think about that, too.

That’s about it, George. I hope you understand. It’s not about your politics or your ideas. It’s not about your right wing bent, or your refusal to analyze and examine the complexities of the world. It’s what you did to tear down the fabric of American leadership, Mr. Bush. It’s what you did to the idea of America and it’s about what you did to the Presidency itself. Trust, me George, I can’t just look the other way. You did far too much damage in your first four years, far, far too much.

So, as you approach your second inaugural, George, count me out. I want no part of it, or you. I’ll be stateless in my heart for the next four years rather than have anyone think that I approve of your Presidency. I’ll have no President at all rather than have anyone think for even a moment that I can forget what you’ve done, or that I don’t fear what you will do now. I’m sure it won’t put a damper on your celebrations in January, George. I’m sure you’ll go right on doing what you’ve done this far. But you’ll do it with one less American in your care. I just cannot allow you to be my President, George Bush. No way, - none at all.

[neebob]

35. I don't feel complicit

I didn't vote for BushCo and have never supported them - not even on September 11th. I've never supported either of their bogus wars or any of their greedy, irresponsible acts. I wake up every day wondering what they've done since yesterday to mess up the world for another 50 years and hoping this won't be the day they do something that makes it completely unlivable for everyone.

The people in Iraq and other countries whose lives are ended or ruined or otherwise adversely impacted by American greed and arrogance are never far from my thoughts. I speak out against George Bush and his criminal cronies every chance I get. I supported the guy who wanted to create a cabinet-level Department of Peace. I voted for Kerry and Edwards in spite of their bullshit rhetoric about hunting and killing terrorists and staying in Iraq, out of confidence that they're more responsible and less wantonly greedy than Bush and out of hope that putting them in office might eventually improve things for all the citizens of the world.

I am mindful of the world around me and do what I can to promote social responsibility and avoid feeding the machine. I'm not going to beat myself up for using gas. I don't use very much: one 15-gallon tank every 2-3 weeks. I have the fewest clothes of anyone I know.

I am more aware of ruthless con men and their scams than the vast majority of people, having survived one who tried to ruin me personally and nearly succeeded. Five years later, I'm still paying off back taxes and finance companies with predatory practices, to the tune of the average American family's housing payment. It will take me another five years to get out from under this debt.

I feel incredibly lucky to be able to do that and still have some vague hope of seeing that my son gets a decent education, assuming his father feels similarly obligated, and providing for my own retirement. If Bush starts another war, judging by what happened leading up to the one in Iraq, I'm screwed. Never mind my number-one fear, given an only child who is male and will turn 18 in 2007.

I'm just getting by, better than some, and hoping to survive the Badministration like everyone else who didn't vote for them. I pay my taxes because I have to and do not feel responsible in any way for their crimes. So don't tell me I'm an accomplice.

The real accomplices are living much more comfortably than I and I'd bet all of the people here. Many of them are on TV. Others we will never see because they live in gated mansions and travel around in private jets and stay at places we can never hope to afford. The rest are over at Free Republic and on the streets, driving around in massive family trucksters with stickers that say things like "I stand with President Bush."

Others who voted for Bush I would call unwitting accomplices.

[snoochie]

36. Interesting reactions to your post.

I'm sorry you're feeling down, but action is always the answer. Pick up or print some ACORN flyers and pass them out. Volunteer for any of the new liberal think tanks. Write some letters to the editor or even a holiday letter expressing your liberal values that you can send to all your rightwing relatives in the most loving and constructive way possible.

Healing this country requires not only that we recognize the problems, but also address them with action. Only focusing on negatives is not only not helpful, it is actually counterproductive.

This is to everyone on this thread: please don't worry about what others are doing, or what others think of what you are doing or not doing. Fighting each other is pointless. The effect you have on the people you encounter while engaging in whatever form of activism you prefer is probably much greater than you know. Take heart. Lead by example.

[Jim__]

37. I agree! But, what do we do about it? - n/t

[zippy890]

39. One small step for progressive causes......

I changed my long distance service to Working Assets-- and I actually felt good paying my bill- its an activist organization that supports progressive groups and issues

I realize this may seem a trifling thing compared to the huge issues being discussed here, but sometimes thats how we start taking control of our lives and making change, in the everyday choices we make.

check it out

http://www.workingassets.com/longdistance.cfm?formid=EA-055-HMP-1

[American Tragedy]

44. Speak for yourself.

I am getting fucking sick of these pointless bullshit posts declaring that all Americans are murderers.

Would you apply such a principle to all people around the world who have lived under cruel or imperialistic regimes, blame everybody for the actions of their government? Being of the same nationality as others who do evil does not make you guilty, any more than those of the same race or religion. Indeed, regret for things that are realistically beyond one's influence, or hatred for those who work and try but inevitably fail are the most useless of emotions.

The way that we are currently represented throughout the world humiliates me as much as anyone here, but that still does not excuse chauvinism on the part of others. I'll gladly accept responsibility for what I've done individually, for my decisions, but I will never apologize for who I am.

On the other hand, if you prefer to drown yourself in self-flagellation and pity, and whimper about what a horrible person you are, so others can marvel at your fine social conscience, be my guest.

[Karenina]

45. HYPOCRITICAL INCULCATION!!!

I quite clearly remember the phrase "Scratch the surface of any German and you'll find a Nazi underneath." I'd suggest examining the "collective guilt" felt by one of only 2 nations in the world that has faced it's history openly and honestly. America has QUITE a ways to go in that regard.

[cali]

46. I find your thinking extraordinarily shallow, alas.

Self-loathing never leads to any good. It's not the same as self-criticism. To say that we're all equally guilty is specious and an absurdly over broad indictment. Speak for yourself; I've no problem with that, but try and refrain from sweeping generalizations. I don't know you, so I don't know if you're capable of understanding the wisdom of the following quote from E.M Forester's Howard's End:


"Remorse is not among the eternal verities. The Greeks were right to dethrone her. Her action is too capricious, as though the Erinyes selected only certain men and certain sins. And of all means of regeneration, remorse is surely the most wasteful. It cuts away healthy tissues with the poisoned. It is a knife that probes far deeper than the evil."