Dumbed-Down Citizens are NOT good for Democracy. Period.

[JanMichael]

But that's what we've got it seems. Back to the subject, how are poorly informed individuals supposed to make heads or tails of all of the information that they're being (apparently) overwhelmed with? This might be why talk radio stations have such a profound impact. Perhaps why so many don't vote or vote against their own best interest and class.

This would obviously benefit the Right, they wipe us out with simplistic, and trite, platitudes. They offer monosyllabic solutions for complex problems. They dominate those with strongly held but ill informed opinions.

http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/append/c7/at07-10.pdf">Here and also here you find that just over one-half or fewer of the respondents to these surveys knew that:

* The earliest humans did not live at the same time as dinosaurs.


* It takes the Earth one year to go around the Sun.

And even worse Gallop had only 79% knowing that the Earth actually revolves around the Sun. Wait the first link has only 75% knowing that...

That's mind numbing. Seriously folks, it's a crime.

This also effects our knowledge of History as reported by Maritz Research a few years ago.
==================================================================
ST. LOUIS — Think you know something about American history? Think most Americans know how many stars are on the American flag? Think again.

"As a whole, Americans scored a dismal 68 percent on a five-question quiz on American history — that’s a D+ in most grade books. A recent Maritz AmeriPoll® telephone survey put 1,004 randomly-selected Americans to the following test:

1. How many stars are on the American flag?

2. How many stripes are on the American flag?

3. What is the name of our national anthem?

4. What year was the Declaration of Independence signed?

5. Who was the first president of the United States?
=================================================================

Not all contries are much better off so this isn't just US bashing, it's bashing the appalling, politically dangerous, ignorance that's erupting from Humanity.

[Mika]

1. The earth taking 1 year to circle the sun is only a theory.

Like evolution and gravity.

:crazy:

[xultar]

2. So when the South Park guys said that stupid people shouldn't vote

you agree?

[Thtwudbeme]

4. That's not what Michael meant

He said that Americans have been dumbed down-

The SouthPark guys pissed him off this year with that crap.

[JanMichael]

9. Nice of you to make that leap but no.

I simply wanted to point out something that troubles me.

As to the SP guys? Assholes, pure unadulterated assholes.

[PaganPreacher]

3. So, what to do about it?

If "dumbed down citizens" are the problem, what is your solution?

An intelligence test to determine voter eligibility?

Deny the vote to anyone who can't answer the 5 questions listed above?

Proxy voting by "smart voters?" Half of any group is below average, so this option disenfranchises half the electorate.

Since the majority of citizens on both sides of the intelligence curve are the products of public school education, it appears that the real problem exists at the school boards' and state boards' of education level, not with "ignorance that's erupting from humanity".

Incidentally, you misspelled "Gallup."

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[JanMichael]

8. I imagine that we should fight policy that expand the "dumbing down".

Such as the trend of "teaching the tests" and other moves that take resources away from teaching subjects that stimulate critical thought.

"An intelligence test to determine voter eligibility?"

No.

"Deny the vote to anyone who can't answer the 5 questions listed above?"

No.

"Proxy voting by "smart voters?" Half of any group is below average, so this option disenfranchises half the electorate."

No.

"Since the majority of citizens on both sides of the intelligence curve are the products of public school education, it appears that the real problem exists at the school boards' and state boards' of education level, not with "ignorance that's erupting from humanity"."

While I agree with the premise that a real problem exists on that local level I wouldn't ignore larger technological, societal, moves.

The fact is that US citizens are not, on these basic tests, significantly "dumber" that other Western nations. It's something bigger IMHO.

As to "Gallop" it was in the link text and I missed it, typos happen. At least when the Sun travels around the eatrth over the next 17 hours I can be satisfied with that excuse.

[PaganPreacher]

14. "Knowledge Nannies" in every classroom?

1. OK, we are going to fight policy that expands "dumbing down."

"Teaching the test" is not a matter of national, state, or school board policy. It is a practice by individual teachers- some do it, some don't.

How will we, at a national level, prevent individual teachers from teaching to the test? Can we do that without putting a "knowledge nanny" in every classroom?

2. We are going to fight "other moves that take resources away from teaching subjects that stimulate critical thought."

Is the problem really a lack of education in critical thought, or is it failure to teach the basics- spending time and money on extraneous things?

What would you cut, and what would you add, to accomplish your goal?

AND, we all know that the Sun is carried across the sky every day in a chariot, and kept in a basket at night, so don't try to convince me that it travels "around" our flat Earth!

I was just teasing about "Gallup," by the way. Have to try to elicit a smile once in awhile.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[Career Prole]

17. "Teaching the test" is not a matter of nat'l, state, or school board

policy."

Perhaps not written policy, but policy need not be written to be ascribed to and enforced.
I won't pretend to be able to make so generalized a statement as professes knowledge of policy on national or even state levels, but I'm quite comfortable in stating that "teaching the test" is indeed the policy in Taylor County, Texas.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. It's the policy in MO too

n/t

[KlatooBNikto]

5. Did they ask: Who is buried in Grant's tomb?

[Dr.Phool]

6. My favorite quote

Is from Winston Churchill. "If you want the best argument against democracy, spend 5 minutes talking to the average voter".

I've said it since the early '70s, when public education started going to hell, the dumber they keep people, the more inclined they are to vote Republican.

I spent a lot of time talking to the average voter this year. Whew!!!

[welshTerrier2]

7. naive institutional faith ...

while i agree that most people, including most voters, know very little about history or anything else, i think the problem we have trying to keep democracy alive goes much deeper than that ...

i've talked to lots of "liberals" who hate bush, hate what he's doing to this country and hate what he's doing internationally ... they seem to have at least some understanding of the issues ... but they did nothing to help ...

the problem seems to be an underlying belief in our institutions ... they seem to believe that our system of government is indestructible ... surely, if things go wrong, THEY will take care of it ... if a President is bad for the country, he will be voted out ... even during Watergate, many republicans voted to impeach Nixon ...

Their naive institutional faith leads to their non-participation ... many of these people vote, but they do nothing else ... when citizens don't actively participate in democracy, democracy dies ...

[Oak2004]

13. That, here, is the key

It only takes a sizeable minority (judging from history) to effect change. We only need the active support of, perhaps, 20% of the population.

One of the tasks before us is to rally that 20%.

[BiggJawn]

10. Oh, how many times have I said the following...

"It's a good Goddamn thing you were BORN here, because you sure as FUCK couldn't pass the TEST to become a fucking citizen of this Country!!"

Only had ONE person get pissed-off enough to want to fight about it...The rest just try to play it off, "Oh, that's FUNNY dude...You should get yer own show on HBO..."

[troubleinwinter]

11. Yeah, well, who wants democracy anymore, anyway?

[MacCovern]

12. Earth revolves around the Sun?

That poll does not surprise me. So 79% know the earth revolves around the Sun.

In our self-absorbed culture it's not a surprise. The other 21% are positive the earth revolves around their ass!

[jdots]

15. America is the most entertained nation in the world

Thre repukes are very happy with having it this way.They are anti education,anti art and worse of all anti imagination.
How can we change this ? We can show people that education IS entertaining and entertainment can be educational.The liberal arts education is something they have tried to destroy,they wouldn't want anyone well read and thinking.This surround sound world we have created is fine just don't let it replace talking and reading and dreaming.
We can change it,if you think t.v. and radio are dumb (and they have become very dumb) cancell that sat or cable,boycot the sponsors of trash and hate and they will learn that good stuff sells just as well.The only people that will be hurt in the long run are the people who want the wolrd dumb.

[Lone_Wolf]

16. Blame the education policy makers...

School is very much an indoctrination process designed to teach students to think the right thoughts. The goal of this is to eventually make these students good employees; i.e. following directions, being punctual, obeying superiors, only asking the right question.

Schools have no interest in teaching true critical thought because it jeopardizes the system and makes people too disruptive.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. What about parents?

Why is it never their fault? We at the schools can only do so much with what we are sent from home. If a parent never makes their child read or think, they won't grow up to become a good reader or a critical thinker. If a parent lets their child stay home from school whenever they want (and play video games all day) then how can the school be held responsible for the child's lack of achievement? If a parent never makes a kid do his homework, how can they expect straight As - or even Bs - on the report card? How can we expect kids to do well on all these mandated tests when we lack the support we need from their parents? And if the parent dropped out of high school, how fair is it to blame the school for not forcing the kid to graduate?

I am sick of schools being made to take the blame for all these problems. We are doing the best we can with the kids we are sent. Without parental support, we won't succeed.

[Career Prole]

20. Hear hear!!

The first thing I do when I get home from work each night is sit down with my daughter and go over the homework. My folks didn't need to do that with me, but then I spent the first 8 grades with the nuns.
We understood that if we didn't "get it" we were going to get it, if you know what I mean. This inspired much greater effort on the part of the students (like you wouldn't believe!) :eyes:

My girl was fretting Thursday night because she wasn't "getting" equivalent fractions and least common multiples. We spent an hour or so with some measuring cups until she had the "Aha!" moment, and she came home with a 100 and a big smile the next day.
She probably would have bombed the test without the measuring cups, and the teacher just doesn't have enough hours in the day for that sort of thing.

Are you an educator, proud2Blib? If so, you're at the top of my list of "Most Important Americans"...well ahead of politicians, stockbrokers, and soldiers.
:hi: