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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 05:11 PM
Original message
Fighting for Democracy...
Our elections are not stolen they are CONTROLLED

Are you willing to fight for America's democracy?

http://redhandsmovement.com

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preciousdove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. WRONG COLOR!!!! n/t
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Red Hands? Red Gloves?
:: Red means STOP :: Wearing red signifies ANGER :: Red indicates a TENSE situation :: Superstitious people think red frightens away EVIL :: Red stands for high ENERGY :: Red signals you are a PIONEER for CHANGE :: Red makes the first move :: Symbolizes catching them RED-HANDED :: To show that those who are guilty have the red blood of a WOUNDED DEMOCRACY on their hands :: PAINT YOUR HANDS RED or WEAR RED GLOVES to the protests and marches so others know you are part of the movement!
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Besides, I think ultimately.....
we'll need some Republicans to join the effort.
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Higans Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Election Reform is the only way.
Edited on Sun Dec-05-04 06:09 PM by Higans
Date: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:11 PM

I'm So sorry. I lost so much sleep over this whole thing that I went
crazy for a moment. I am so sorry if my calls and leters bothered you.

I just feel so helpless knowing that no matter what any human says or does
it will not stop this war machine. All of our rights have been taken away
from us. we have lost our 14th amendment right to vote. it is obvious that
the elections are rigged. I don't even think that the politicians care. I
think they are perfectly happy to shred our constitution in front of us and
there is nothing that any caring compassionate human can do about it.

Here is what is going on. they are using the divide and conquer method to
conquer the entire world population. It doesn't matter who we vote for, and
it never did. The machines with out paper trails are what the hackers are
using to control everything. the government will never let an election
reform bill pass. they will keep using a computer to steal our voice
forever. here is how I know this.

John Kerry won the election. the 14th amendment of the constitution clearly
states that if a portion of the population is disenfranchised, each state
will have it's electorate reduced proportionate to the amount of
disenfranchisement. This applies to all 50 states. The People who have been
disenfranchised is any one who used a paperless voting machine. the people
who used machines that had a paper trail could have their votes recounted if
necessary. The people who used Paperless machines could not have their votes
recounted. Once the data is uploaded to the central tabulator, it is gone.
there is just a select few people in control of the central tabulator. they
have the liberty to decide the fate of every election. I'm talking
Presidential, Senate, the house of representatives, the governors, even the
mayors. in essence two or three people have taken the 14th amendment right
to vote from the entire Human population.

If Kerry had any balls at all this is the argument he would use.

The Senator contends that the use of DRE voting without an audit-able paper
record recording the intent of the voter denies these voters the right to
vote and violates Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution
and standards for fair and transparent elections. According to Section Two
of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, the Senator argues that the
representation for the states using DRE voting without audit-able paper
records be reduced by the proportion of the population of these states.

*Using the proportion of counties using DRE voting (given by
http://www.thestandard.com/movabletype/datadigest/archives/000499.php),
rounding up to the nearest whole number, disqualifies the following numbers
of electoral votes for the following states:

Alabama, 1;
Arkansas, 1;
Colorado, 1;
Delaware, 3;
Florida, 7;
Georgia, 15;
Indiana, 6;
Iowa, 2;
Kansas, 1;
Kentucky, 8;
Louisiana, 2;
Maryland, 10;
Michigan, 1;
Mississippi, 1;
New Jersey, 12;
New Mexico, 5;
North Carolina, 6;
Ohio, 2;
Pennsylvania, 3;
South Carolina, 7;
Tennessee, 6;
Texas, 2;
Virginia, 5;
West Virgina, 1;
Wyoming, 1

Note that California voters in counties using DRE voting had the right to
alternatively use paper ballots. Since this does not deny any voters the
right to have their votes counted, California retains all of its 55
electoral votes.

This disqualification of electoral votes reduces the total of qualified
electoral votes by 109, leaving a total number of qualified electoral votes
of 429. This number reduces the majority to 215 electoral votes.

Therefore, the presidential candidates receive the following qualified
electoral votes:

Bush/Cheney... AL, 8; AK, 3; AZ, 10; AR, 5; CO, 8; FL, 20; ID, 4; IN, 5; IA,
5; KS, 5; LA, 7; MS, 5; MO, 11; MT, 3; NE, 5; NV, 5; NC, 9; ND, 3; OH, 18;
OK, 7; SC, 1; SD, 3; TN, 5; TX, 32; UT, 5; VA, 8; WV, 4; WY, 2

Kerry/Edwards... CA, 55; CT, 7; DC, 3; HI, 4; IL, 21; ME, 4; MA, 12; MI, 16;
MN, 10; NH, 4; NJ, 3; NY, 31; OR, 7; PA, 18; RI, 4; VT, 3; WA, 11; WI, 10

Thusly counted, the electoral college gives Bush/Cheney 206 electoral votes
and gives Kerry/Edwards 223 electoral votes, giving Kerry/Edwards a majority
and the presidency of the United States.

* The proportion of counties using DRE voting without a paper record to the
total counties of each state does not necessarily reflect the true
proportion of denied voters, but lacking data for the total votes cast for
each state with DRE voting I had no alternative. I would suggest that using
the actual proportion of votes cast with DRE to the total votes cast in each
state for disqualifying electoral votes would result in the same winner.

My calculations were correct. If the representation in Congress falls, so do
the number of electoral votes, according to Article Two, Section One.

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may
direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and
Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress..."
(emphasis added)


"But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for
President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in
Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of
the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such
state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or
in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime,
the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which
the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male
citizens twenty-one years of age in such state."


COMMON SENSE would tell you that equal protection means having all votes
counted. BUT in Bush v. Gore the SC twisted the notion to suit its purposes
just to install dubya in office. As Scalia bizarrely interpreted equal
protection, it means having all votes counted in the same way with the same
standards. It seems to me that Bush v. Gore actually supports your case
since there are different standards for counting electronic votes and paper
ballots.


The DRE machines without paper trails, when combined with the easily
compromised tabulation software, makes auditing the vote impossible. If you
can't verify the votes when irregularities show problems with the tally,
this effectively denies the right to vote of the portion of the population
forced to use these machines. To this fact there is no argument.

Section Two of The Fourteenth Amendment is clear. Section One of Article Two of the Constitution is clear...

"...Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress..."

The Senate of the new Congress will count the votes. The DRE machines make a true count impossible, thereby effectively denying citizens of their right to vote. We haven't even figured in disproportionate number of voting machines, "lost" voter registrations, surreptitiously denied absentee ballots, voting place misdirection and a whole slew of other well-documented dirty tricks favoring the incumbent. Therefore, this situations changes the representation entitled to the States in the new Congress. Of course, I can't speak for the process by which the Congress would depose Representatives or how long this would take. However, the situation does change the number of electoral votes entitled to each State in this election.

I admit this is all a legal quagmire, but it has (constitutionally) legal merit. It also avoids issues involved in a recount which the DRE machines make impossible.

Would it fly? I don't know. I imagine it would cause quite the scene. Could the threat of losing seats lead the States to rectify obvious problems in the electoral process? Could the threat of giving up seats lead Senators and Representatives to pressure Pres. Bush to concede?

Difficulties aside, could this scenario offer the only true means for saving Democracy? You decide.



Please see full discussion here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=77190&mesg_id=77190

If Kerry does not jump on this issue, and use it to spear head election
reform, we the Humans will never again have the right to vote. because the
Main Stream Media is controlled by the Government, they do every thing they
can to hide this information. they sing the population to sleep with stories
of Scott Peterson, or a puppy down a well. they will never admit that they
took our rights from us.

Arnold will be president in 08 and no matter how any one votes it will not
matter. Arnold will continue Bush's pattern of global domination. he will
continue dropping bombs on defenseless populations. the perpetual war will
never stop.

Humans will never be able to truly explore their universe and science if we
keep pumping our money into killing people. If there was ever an issue that
needed to be on any ballot for any human to vote on, we need to have the
right to vote yes or no on war.

Now you tell me, should I give up? should I forget this information?
should I accept the Machine as my ruler? I have figured out how to break
their little game. Election reform is the only way to get our voice back but
they won't let us talk about it.

EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE - Portion of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S.
Constitution that prohibits discrimination by state government
institutions. The clause grants all people "equal protection of the laws,"
which means that the states must apply the law equally and cannot give
preference to one person or class of persons over another.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e027.htm

The Words of Dr. Martin L. King Jr.


I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true
meaning of its creed; we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men
are created equal.

I have a dream,

that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the
sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table
of brotherhood.

I have a dream,

that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat
of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed
into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream,

that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will
not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their
character.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with
its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and
nullification; one day right down in Alabama little black boys and black
girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as
sisters and brothers. I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill
and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain and the
crooked places will be made straight and the glory of the Lord shall be
revealed and all flesh shall see it together.

The words of Dr. Martin L. King Jr.
for full text: http://www.toptags.com/aama/voices/speeches/speech1.htm

If we the Humans don't stand up now for election reform, this computer may
control us forever. Should I give up????

This is the scope of what we are dealing with is it a battle that we can
ever win? Do you ever want to have Kids? that is what this is about. I want
our children to have a voice. I want our children to have an education. I
don't want our children to be forced to kill Humans. if the elections are
not reformed I don't want to bring children into this world at all. I
suspect that there are a lot of people who feel this way.

This is why the administration is spending 3.5 million dollars to teach
Abstinence only sex ed. this is why they are trying to outlaw abortion. this
is why they are trying to out law homosexuality. They are farming us.
farming fresh bodies to drive their war machine. this is why they produce
violent video games they are programing our children to kill each other.

Should I give up??? Now that I have finally opened my eyes and Witnessed
reality first hand should I give up????? You say the word, and I will forget
this issue, but don't expect me to ever want children. I am sorry that this
is the way I feel, but I can't bare the thought that my children will be
slaves just as I am.

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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. We must fight for it, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE IF OUR DEMOCRACY DIES
We are the ones who will be resposible if our democracy dies, because we are the only ones to fight for it. If we roll over like congress did in 2002, then WE are at fault, not the neo-cons...

FIGHT!!!
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Wow....you've really thought this out.
Thanks for putting a lot of the puzzle pieces together. n/t
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Hopefully things can come together there
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. kickedykickkick
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. late kick
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