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I believe I am one of the MIHOP people ?

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:06 PM
Original message
I believe I am one of the MIHOP people ?
I believe that George Bush made 9/11 happen. On purpose? Probably. He came into office and dissed everyone who disagreed with him. He witdrew from the Kyoto Treaty and starting his "evil axis" bullshit. He thought Israel and Palestine would be better off if they were left to fight their battle alone. As Israel was marching into Palestine and as the violence increased, Dubya went on vacations. By Sept 11th, he had spent more days away from the White House than he was there. It was all a big ol' game for the little cowboy. Then it happened. Somebody put a turd in his punch and he's been stirring it up every since.
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. I believe I am one of the WTF did IHOP people.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. That sounds more like LIHOP to me
Let it happen as opposed to Made it happen.

I'm definitely at least LIHOP.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. There is a difference....
I am more inclined ot believe that Bush's wods and actions "made" it happen rather than than he knew about it then "let" it happen. I think his arrogant actions and incompetence "made" it happen.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I understand what you're saying, but that's not MIHOP.
MIHOP is MADE it happen....literally.

There are some who believe that no terrorists (or, in some cases, even real planes) were involved on 9/11...it was all completely engineered by the administration.

THAT'S MIHOP.

LIHOP has Bush knowing specifically that we were going to be attacked (not just a vague warning, but specific information) and intentionally letting it happen to further his political goals. It's not just "knowing", but knowing and letting it happen INTENTIONALLY.

I subscribe to neither of these scenarios. I just think he's arrogant and incompetent.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I believe his arrogance and incompetence caused it to happen....
So what would we call that? hip-hop??
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I guess it would be "LIH", but that's not very catchy...
"Hip-hop" might not be accurately descriptive, but it's easier to say...

:)
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loupe-garou Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. I felt at a gut level that they let it happen right away............
Since then if course there has been plenty of proof. Too bad we don't have an inquisitive press!!

I just read "The New Pearl Harbor" by David Ray Griffin.. He did a great job making a credible case for involvement and backs it up with lots of evidence.

What is LIHOP, btw?
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the_outsider Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. let it happen on purpose
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. I blame it on foreign policy corrupted by corporatism
Edited on Sun Dec-05-04 08:31 PM by Selatius
When greed is the primary arbiter of foreign policy, it would make sense to, say, sell arms to Saddam Hussein so he can slaughter Iranians so that they don't gain control over more oil. Likewise, it made sense to overthrow Iran's democratically elected government in the 1950s because the moderate left government dared to nationalize the oil infrastructure there and hurt US/UK corporate interests. It's capitalism at its finest.

When you look at the history of exploitation of the world's poor for greater profits and power, you may just get a faint idea of why people would hate us so much to kill. It was our government's foreign policy, continued under both Democratic and Republican administrations throughout the last 50 years from Vietnam to Iraq that have led to more violence including the Sept. 11 attacks.

If they made it happen on purpose, then that is how they did it: By stomping on the face of the third world for decade after decade. They were bound to bite back eventually. This is the price of falling asleep instead of maintaining vigilance. We should have never allowed corporatism to infect our government in the first place generations ago.

We are paying today for the mistakes made in the past, and if we do not change the fundamental way we conduct ourselves not just in our nation but with the rest of the world, we are, in essence, taxing our unborn. The tax will come in the form of war, destruction, and misery. They will die because of the mistakes we, as a nation, are making today, right now.

The US is not the lone offender in the world. There are others. Many of the problems of today we're dealing with is the legacy of colonialism by the European powers. Greed knows no borders.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. The plans were known and warnings issued but it was LIHOP
at a minimum, LIHOP.
OBL was CIA.
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. depends, eh?
This administration is good at blurring the line between let and make. They may have "let" (wink wink and a word to the wise if you get my drift) someone else (who we have absolutely no connections to at all so stop saying we do) make things happen.

What we do know with certainty is that we don't know, and we also know that the reason we don't know is because the people in this administration lie about everything and punish anyone who speaks the truth or expresses any opposition to them.

There is still controversy today about responsibility for the Reichstag fire - did the Nazis LIHOP or MIHOP? Who cares? There is no controversy about the way they used it to impose tyranny and start aggressive wars.

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maxsmom Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Michael Ruppert's book
turned me into a MIHOP. It's called Crossing the Rubicon and can be found at www.fromthewilderness.com. Also, his video "Truth and Lies of 9/11" is a MIHOP affirmation.
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Is it worth buying?
I am still 10 books behind..I'm not sure my mental health can take any more truth!
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Crossing the Rubicon IS Definitely worth buying, and...
worth bumping up the 10 or 50 or 100 books in your backlog and reading RIGHT NOW.

The book is truly incredible. It is engrossing reading, and it's very well documented from mainstream sources.

This one is not to be missed. It's not JUST about 9/11 or Peak Oil or Geopolitics/Economics or Bush or the Iraq War or the GOP Wealth Transfer or any of the other numerous hot topics it deals with...It is about ALL of those subjects, and more importantly, it is about how they are all related to each other.


BTW, You can get it cheaper directly from Ruppart's site www.fromthewilderness.com than if you buy it from a book store. (I found this out after I had paid full cover at a local Borders.)
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I cancellled all my email alerts after the election EXCEPT
from the wilderness. It is the best website on the net.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Crossing the Rubicon is like the comprehensive, collated version of
all the previous writings in the "From the Wilderness" newsletters, plus new research, all tied together into a coherent narrative.

There are six (6) volumes of FTW newsletters, priced at $40 each or all six for $200. Crossing the Rubicon is remarkable bargain - $16 for 600 pages of FTW material.
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. SOLD!
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Like Kentuck, I think there is a blurred line between "let it happen" and
"made it happen."

However, I think the hard-core MIHOPers believe that bushco itself, rather than OBL, actually attacked the buildings. I don't believe that.

For what it's worth, I've always thought the "on purpose" was sort of redundant. Either bushco made it happen or let it happen. Both were on purpose.

One step up from "let it happen" would be "happened through gross incompetence and neglect." Really really fine line between that and LIHOP.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. "on purpose" has a meaning in LIHOP, but not MIHOP (IMHO)
In MIHOP, if the administration MADE it happen, of course it was "on purpose".

In LIHOP, they could have let it happen through incompetence (what I believe) or "on purpose" which implies a conspiracy.
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GingerSnaps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. What's the old southern saying?
"When you stir shit it stinks" or "The more you stir shit the more it stinks" :shrug:

* has been on vacation his entire life!

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. CHENEY MIHOPed: BUSH * Let HIM:
Edited on Sun Dec-05-04 11:10 PM by Beam Me Up
DICK DID IT: Here's some of what you need to know:


IN BRIEF:
Rumsfeld and Cheney were principal actors in one of the most highly classified programs of the Reagan Administration. Under it U.S. officials furtively carried out detailed planning exercises for keeping the federal government running during and after a nuclear war with the Soviet Union.

>snip<

Ronald Reagan established the continuity-of-government program with a secret executive order. According to Robert McFarlane, who served for a time as Reagan's National Security Adviser, the President himself made the final decision about who would head each of the three teams. Within Reagan's National Security Council the "action officer" for the secret program was Oliver North, later the central figure in the Iran-contra scandal. Vice President George H.W. Bush was given the authority to supervise some of these efforts, which were run by a new government agency with a bland name: the National Program Office. It had its own building in the Washington area, run by a two-star general, and a secret budget adding up to hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Much of this money was spent on advanced communications equipment that would enable the teams to have secure conversations with U.S. military commanders. In fact, the few details that have previously come to light about the secret program, primarily from a 1991 CNN investigative report, stemmed from allegations of waste and abuses in awarding contracts to private companies, and claims that this equipment malfunctioned.

The exercises were usually scheduled during a congressional recess, so that Cheney would miss as little work on Capitol Hill as possible.

>snip<

There things stood until September 11, 2001, when Cheney and Rumsfeld suddenly began to act out parts of a script they had rehearsed years before. Operating from the underground shelter beneath the White House, called the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, Cheney told Bush to delay a planned flight back from Florida to Washington. At the Pentagon, Rumsfeld instructed a reluctant Wolfowitz to get out of town to the safety of one of the underground bunkers, which had been built to survive nuclear attack. Cheney also ordered House Speaker Dennis Hastert, other congressional leaders, and several Cabinet members (including Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman and Interior Secretary Gale Norton) evacuated to one of these secure facilities away from the capital. Explaining these actions a few days later, Cheney vaguely told NBC's Tim Russert, "We did a lot of planning during the Cold War with respect to the possibility of a nuclear incident." He did not mention the Reagan Administration program or the secret drills in which he and Rumsfeld had regularly practiced running the country.

http://p066.ezboard.com/fhoodlumsy2krumorsandpreparations.showNextMessage?topicID=868.topic

On page 14 of his Address to the San Francisco Commonwealth Club, August 31, 2004, Michael C. Ruppert names Vice President Dick Cheney as the prime suspect for the government's role in the events of 9/11:
For me, the pivotal evidence absolutely demonstrating direct government complicity in, and management of, the attacks was found in a number of undisputed, yet virtually unaddressed war games that I will show were being conducted, coordinated and/or controlled by Vice President Dick Cheney or his immediate staff on the morning of September 11th. The names of those wargames are known to include: Vigilant Guardian, Vigilant Warrior, Northern Guardian, Northern Vigilance, and Tripod II. All have been reported on by major press organizations relying on undisputed quotes from participating military personnel. They have also been confirmed by NORAD press releases. All, except for Northern Vigilance and Tripod II, had to do with hijacked airliners inside the continental United States, specifically within the Northeast Air Defense Sector where all four 9/11 hijackings occurred.
>snip<

There are many, many areas where the official account and the findings of the Kean Commission are contradicted by hard evidence, official records, mainstream news investigations and even sworn testimony. Both the Los Angeles Times and the New York Times have noted some of the lesser, but no less glaring, inconsistencies. In my book <"Crossing the Rubicon"> I will provide you with many more.

In my book I will make several key points:

1. I will name Richard Cheney as the prime suspect in the mass murders of 9/11 and will establish that, not only was he a planner in the attacks, but also that on the day of the attacks he was running a completely separate command, control and communications system which was superceding any orders being issued by the NMCC, or the White House Situation Room. To accomplish that end he relied on a redundant and superior communications system maintained by the US Secret Service in or near the presidential Emergency Operations Center – the bunker to which he and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice were reportedly "rushed" after flight 175 struck the WTC's south tower. I will demonstrate that the Secret Service possessed radar screens which gave them, and the Vice President, whose side they never left, with real-time information as good as or better than that available to the Pentagon.


Also see:
"Richard Cheney <is> the prime suspect in the mass murders of 9/11"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2410375

Edit to add link to Ruppert's speech to the San Francisco Common Wealth Club: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/PDF/CWspeech.doc
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