Explain the difference between leftist and liberal...

[SoonerShankle]

I've read a couple of accounts at www.fair.org were folks were miffed that FAIR uses the term progressive to cover left of center politics. If we look at the political spectrum, I'm sure those of us at this site fall all across it. Even though most of us here are "progressive," I guess I just don't get what all the gnat-choking is about. Someone please define it for me so I can understand why leftists and liberals aren't on the same side???

:shrug:

[Celeborn Skywalker]

1. I don't really know

It seems like leftist is used more for people who are on the "fringe" of the left wing. I usually hear it used on socialist South American countries.

[SoonerShankle]

2. They must be the fringe, but...

they were really miffed at being lumped with "the sell-out" dems/liberals.

[UdoKier]

3. "Liberals" are pro-establishment moderates.

"Leftists" are anti-establishment activists. At least that was the thinking in the 60s and 70s.

The fact that the difference between the two attests to how far our country has slid to the right.

[intheflow]

4. "Leftist" and "Progressive" remind people of

socialists and communists. The aversion to these terms is cultural hangover from the socialist/labor uprisings in the early 20th Century, and McCarthyism in the '50's.

IMHO. :)

[SoonerShankle]

6. Yet "liberal" has been demonized....

dramatically since the Reagan Revolution. I remember William F. Buckly promoting use of the term "the L word." So if we can't use leftist or progressive because of red era demonization, and we can't use liberal because of Reagan Revolt demonization, what do we call ourselved and not offend people?

It's ridiculous how much left of center folks are trashed... sickening, really.

[salvorhardin]

12. What do we call ourselves?

How about Americans?

[imenja]

5. liberalism implies promoting free markets

The classic definition of liberalism means adherence to free markets and the notion of the invisible hand as the ultimate arbiter--in the tradition of Adam Smith. Many nineteenth-century liberals also worked to curb the political power of the church.
We in North America use the term differently. Liberal has come to mean left. From my perspective, that usage reveals how narrow our political spectrum is, that even the "extreme" left in this country doesn't challenge the fundamental tenants of the capitalist system.
In a previous thread, some readers were confused over the definition of neo-liberalism. This again stems from the odd way they we define liberal in this country.
I have never called myself a liberal, not because I accept the Right's notion that it is a dirty word, but because I do not accept the inevitability of capitalism. As a historian, I know the age of capitalism is a defined period in world history, dating from the late 1700s (This of course depends on how one defines capitalism, but I'll avoid that subject here). I instead call myself leftist or even occasionally progressive, but never liberal.

[SoonerShankle]

7. I do remember seeing...

Liberal as being the opposite of our meaning in European politics. It is easy to see how that has happened though - remember that democrats and republicans essentially switched roles in the middle twentieth century, ergo democrats, aka liberals, were once the party we think of as conservatives today.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

8. Well, not completely

Yes, the Dems were the more socially conservative party, but they have always been the party of immigrants, workers rights, unions, etc.. The Rethugs have been the party of big business and rich capitalists since shortly after Lincoln.

[gottaB]

13. I don't equate liberalism with free-market absolutism

For me liberalism is a philosophy of limited government. I favor restricting the power of government, but only as a means of securing liberties, not as some kind of money-making scheme. I believe that political freedoms generate prosperity, but if it were agreed that monopolies and corporate cartels also generated economic wealth, I would not support them because they diminish the citizen's real freedom and quality of life. Liberty is what I value most, and that's why I accept government checks on corporate power, and fully support the rights of workers to organize and bargain.

I believe some concerns, in the interests of expedience, justice, social harmony, or the common good, are best handled collectively, and that the instrumentalities of democratic government should be applied to meeting common needs. I support government regulation to safeguard air, water, land and natural habitats; government regulation of interstate commerce, including transportation and communications infrastructure; free public schools and universities; public libraries; quality police, fire and safety services; universal health care; quality child care; retirement benefits for the elderly and disabled; and surely many more I'm not thinking of at the moment. Some of these ideas are more socialist than liberal, but since FDR at least I think most liberals have recognized the importance of tending to the upkeep of our natural and social worlds. (As a historian, you could probably speak more to that. I'm just making some off the cuff comments here.)

[Crunchy Frog]

9. I consider myself liberal and progressive

but not really leftist. I don't think that they traditionally mean the same thing. I believe that leftism implies a fullscale rejection of capitalism for example. I'm not opposed to capitalism, I only think that it needs to be apropriately regulated. I believe that the market is good and necessary, but that it can't fulfill all of society's needs, and that government has an appropriate role as well.

I also don't believe that corporations are inherently evil, just that they have too much power, and ownership has become too concentrated. I think they need to be properly regulated, and their influence on government needs to be far less than what it is, but they do serve a useful purpose in our society.

I've never been a big fan of socialism, although I think the sort of mixed economies that exist in Western Europe work pretty well. I could support that sort of system.

I'm not certain what the difference is between "liberal" and "progressive".

I'm interested in hearing what other people have to say.

[baba]

11. I like progressive.

It sounds good. Progressive means "moving forward" right?

[Festivito]

10. American political words are like surgical bludgeons.

I wonder if anything has any real meaning anymore. PR seems to redefine everything. Definitions depend on how much advertising and skillfully added degradations appeal to listeners. Worse, the definitions for leftists are different than definitions for right-wingers.

Left used to refer to the king's courtiers on his left. Something about the eye drawing in light from the left side into the right-side logical brain being more pleasing for the king searching sorting his favored advisers. Now it seems to refer to economic ideology leaning toward socialism which lefties think means Social Security and Righties think means welfare to the indolent poor along with any other denigrating stereotype they can add.

Liberal used to refer to big spenders freely, liberally spending money, and taxing to replenish the pile. This is backward now with Democrats spending less, taxing less if you include the Republican penchant for borrowing which taxes even more than is counted since the interest will be paid later. Further backward is the notion that liberals hate freedom as though the word liberal had nothing to do with its root in the word liberty, i.e. freedom itself. (Mind boggling right-wing logic.) It is supposed to be the opposite of conservative which is also backward and has a plethora of mind-bending stereotypical junque issues added making both words opposites but indifferentiatable from left and right.

Progressive still applies to trying new things. Except to righties where retrying old things is considered progress -- no matter how bad their look-back eyesight mistakenly sees with their rose colored glasses. We can still own this word. It has a forwardness that scares the slowness of conservatism. Lefties think it adds freedoms. Righties think it must move slowly in order to retain our heritage.

Or, six of one, half-dozen of the other.

But, I needed to vent a little.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. I've never heard the idea about pleasing the right-hand side of the brain

for 'left'. The origin of the word that I've heard, and given in my "Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable" (usually fairly accurate) is:

In the French National Assembly in 1789, the reactionaries sat on the right (of the Speaker), the moderates in the centre, and the democrats and extremists on the left, and this established the custom.

So the idea about ideology (though not necessarily economic) is over 200 years old.

[Festivito]

17. Sounds definitive. But, what no one ever answered for me is..

..was it the Speaker's right or the writer's right?

[cleofus1]

14. the differance is...

People on the Left are usually commies, and Liberals are reindeer loving, berkenstalk wearing long haired intelllectuals....I'm a liberal lefty...(except i usually wear acme boots up here in Alaska)

[Bridget Burke]

15. The words are spelled differently.

Definitions are not "absolute"--there are shades of meaning.

From the right, "leftists" are even more evil than "liberals."