Curious. How do you distinguish between a "fundie" and a liberal Christian

[ecstatic]

Just curious. I saw a few posts about fundies and was wondering what cues allow you to distinguish between the two. Is it the style of dress? Is it what they say? Or do you just assume that anyone with a Bible is a fundie?

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Never safe to assume anything, really. So go with what they say AND

what they do.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

[Neshanic]

2. If they belive in the Bible as absolute truth. All of it.

[ClintonTyree]

3. The stuff that oozes from their mouths...............

usually gives them away. I have no beef with REAL Christians, they can believe whatever they wish to get them through the day.
Fundies, on the other hand, make it a point to ruin your life for you if you do not believe in their specifically defined God figure.
I listen to what they say and watch to see how they conduct themselves. The whacko Fundies give themselves away every time, often within a very short time I may add.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

4. It's easy!

Fundies seem to need to advertise their pseudo Christianity with lots of "Jesus" type logos all over their cars and stuff. Also, a "W" (armonger) sticker is usually a sure sign. Real Christians will show you by their actions, not by beating on their chests like the Pharisees.

[Squeech]

5. Morals, but for thee and not for me

Also a pronounced lack of interest in the actual words of Jesus.

Only the librul Christians base any part of their arguments on texts like the Sermon on the Mount.

[Mist]

7. How about a new "meme"?

I've noticed for years that Fundie types call themselves Christians, but seem totally uninterested in Christ's actual words and ministry. I've come to think of them as "Old Testament Christians." How about referring to them as Old Testament Christians, to make it obvious that they're really into the fire and brimstone, stoning, intolerant Old Testament stuff, and have only a passing aquaintance with anything Christ actually stood for?

[ecstatic]

8. That's actually a good one!

I like that!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

9. Uhm, old testament Christians

are called Jews.

[Squeech]

11. Wrong

If for no other reason than that the Jews don't do the fire and brimstone thing.

Jews by and large don't proselytize. Christians are supposed to witness, spread the gospel. Chances are that that dweeb who just has to share embarrassing personal details with you in the laundromat is just fulfilling his obligation to the Apostle Paul.

[sangh0]

13. It won't work

DUers are committed to calling them "Christians" and believe that everyone else has a responsibility to understand that when they say "Christians" they mean "right-wing fundamentalist Christians"

On DU, there have been suggestions that we come up with a new name to use for these intolerant theocrats, but some objected to that and suggested that the true followers of Christ abandon the label "Christians" without a fight so they can continue to criticize "Christians" without having to type the words "extreme and intolerant right-wing" in front of the "Christians"

[uppityperson]

34. Jews don't believe Jesus was Christ, just believe in old testament

They are old testamenters, but not old testament christians.

[Kingshakabobo]

17. I like

"Jesits" or "Talibornagains". I heard on other threads.

[Buck Rabbit]

55. I like it too, easily understandable can be shorthanded

to OTXian.

I'll use it. Which gives you 50% support among the Rabbit posters on the board.

[luaneryder]

6. It's harder than I once thot

I know a woman who I assumed (dangerous) to be a fundie. She quotes Billy Graham and the Bible frequently, listens to Christian music, watches Christian programming, has the little figurines around the house, rails about the love of money and evils of liqour and premarital sex. But, this past year and particularly around the election she became an enigma to me. She suppported Kerry, admitted to being a lifelong Dem, she's for reproductive rights including abortion, she believes homosexuals are children of God and should be afforded all rights and respect due any other person, she gives freely of her time and money. And she quit going to the Southern Baptist church because the pastor was mixing politics with religion. I found my assumptions to be totally off base. Now I listen to what they say coupled with what they do.

[ktowntennesseedem]

10. Ask them if they believe in inerrancy.

Fundies believe that the bible is inerrant, or in other words, perfect and without error of any kind, including matters of science, history, etc. If you try to point out any discrepancies, they will either turn a deaf ear or insist that that while our translations may have some slight problems, the original manuscripts were perfect. (Which begs the question, if it was so important that God dictate every word perfectly, why didn't God work to insure the subsequent translations were done perfectly as well?) In short, the bible is the literal word of God, and fundies will defend that belief with all the hell-fire-and-brimstone strength they can muster.

Liberal Christians, of which I am one, believe all the talk about inerrancy is nonsense, and amounts to little more than idolatry, making a god out of the bible instead of letting the bible point to and reveal God. We believe that the bible was written as a testimony of human interaction with God, and gives witness to God's love and grace. It was never intended to be a perfect science or history textbook, therefore discrepancies are not a distraction. It is a textbook of theology, and it becomes the word of God when we read it and try to follow its teachings. We don't need to expend our energies defending an inerrant bible; we prefer instead to spend that energy doing what the bible tells us to do: make peace, care for the helpless, lift up the fallen, feed the hungry, seek justice, live humbly.

[datasuspect]

12. quite a few tests

1. if they believe the bible is the literal word of god and is ALL TRUE.

2. biblical inerrancy

3. if they pray over their meals in restaurants

4. if they are condescending towards nonbelievers or think catholics aren't really christians

5. if they proselytize anywhere and everywhere

can anyone think of any other indicators?

can anyone point me to substantial liberal christian resources/web links?

[ecstatic]

15. lose test # 3

LOL. A lot of people pray or even meditate over their meals. Not necessarily a "fundie" thing.

[datasuspect]

19. in public? in restaurants? loud enough for everyone's benefit?

n/t

[ecstatic]

21. Definitely not *loud*

But praying before meals, even in public, is a very common practice. Especially among African Americans.

[Squeech]

16. Maybe

Matthew 6:5

I'm also partial to Matthew 25:40 and want that on a bumper sticker. (Not the verse itself, just the reference, to see how many people get it.)

The team blog called Corrente uses the acronym SIC, for Self-Identified Christian. I think that's pretty useful. (Especially in the context of Matthew 6:5!)

[Lerkfish]

18. I could add other differences;....

fundies believe they have the authority to damn sinners to hell.

Left christians understand its not our authority to do so, actually its none of out business. That's between a person and God.

I could come up with a lot of other small differences, but I believe that is the biggest one.

fundies think they have the right to judge and condemn others and forget the whole thing about forgiveness and turning the other cheek.

When asked, Jesus said the greatest commandment was the love the Lord with all your heart, and all you mind, and all your strength...and the second was to love your neighbor as yourself.

fundies preach hatred, intolerance, judgement and feel they are the SOLE arbiters of "morality" and demand others (even nonbelievers) MUST adhere to their own concepts of morality (even though they themselves often do not).

Left christians are not comfortable telling people they are sinning or whatever, because we know it is not our place to do so...which explains further why atheists are frustrated with us because we WON"T demand fundies follow our brand of religion....if we did, we'd be fundies. Its the very nature of our beliefs that we do not attempt to force others to our own way of thinking.

[datasuspect]

20. wracking my brain

trying to think of a prominent leftist christian figure. MLK, but he is dead.

[Lerkfish]

22. perhaps because leadership is decentralized...

fundies fall for single, charismatic oppressive leadership. Left christians believe all have a say ...
fundies crave attention and press.

*shrugs* the fact that you can't kinda proves my point.

[MountainLaurel]

23. Jimmy Carter?

He left the Southern Baptist church because of its policies on race and women.

[Telly Savalas]

35. There's probably quite a few of them out there.

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."

Matthew 6:5

Someone who truly follows the word of Christ doesn't feel it's necessary to let the whole world know about it.

[Tweed]

44. Rev. Jesse Jackson

[megatherium]

51. Prominent evangelicals on the left:

Tony Campolo and Jim Wallis.

Also, there are lots of prominent Catholics on the left. True, you're expected to be pro-life, but many Catholics are active in anti-war efforts, as well as anti-death-penalty efforts. Father Drinen (former congressman) and Phillip Barrigan come to mind.

[Harlan James]

14. Their Politics

Since the fundies embraced reactionary politics and got into bed with this rather depraved Caesar, they've lost all religious significance for me. They are strictly a political group in my eyes.

And let's face it, it is through the lending their now tarnished credibility to Bush that this most murderous and corrupt of presidents became the "values" candidate. It is the most colossal act of religious hypocrisy in American history.


"So Mr. James, how is it we never see you in church?"

"We prefer to home church, Reverend."

[patcox2]

24. You most likely would never know the religion of the liberal.

Unless you brought it up first. Az likes doing that, bringing up religion and then crying about all the religious people who respond and how they are repressing him by their very existence. Often he combines this with a clever false premise argument that tries to block christians into being either intolerant and evil, or hypocritical. He does this by arguing based on his own false interpretation of theology, which always puts it in a bad light. When liberal christians say "but we don't beleive that," he denounces them as hypocrites for failing to follow the evil doctrines that he has just made up. For example, his suggestion that Jesus never preached tolerance.

Anyway, I would suggest that you can tell a liberal christian from a fundie by the same methods you can tell an atheist from a rabid anti-theist.

[bunkerbuster1]

25. Voted "other." Giveaway is, they follow radical clerics

like Fallwell or Robertson.

But there isn't any one clear dividing line. I have friends who are pretty tolerant of divergent opinions who still voted Boosch and consider themselves born-again Christians, who I wouldn't call "Fundies," because to me a Fundie is someone who actively loathes the teachings of Christ, and is hell-bent (more ways than one) on perverting His message of love and hope.

I think real Fundies are a pretty small minority of Americans, who have managed to achieve political prominence. Relentlessly exposing their hypocrisy and malevolence will (I believe) re-marginalize them.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. Fundies are Old Testament Christians& Liberals are New Testament Christians

fundies qoute the Old testament always to justify their death and fear preaching while liberal Christians preach the Gospel of life, love and peace of Jesus Christ at the Sermon on the Mount Matthew 5

[Harlan James]

27. Wow!

That was a great answer. Very thought provoking.

[the other rick]

31. problem

conservative Catholics quote the NT a lot and support charity, oppose the death penalty, oppose war, support a living wage, etc., etc. - but are pro-life. Where do they fit?

[Telly Savalas]

36. It's not solid dichotomy...

There's some pretty funky stuff in the New Testament too:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

1 Timothy 2:11-12


On the flip side, there's stuff in the Hebrew Bible besides begatting and smiting:

"And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

-Isaiah 2:4

Rather than emphasis on different parts of the Bible, the difference between fundies and liberals is their view on the issue of biblical inerrancy.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

47. where ever the choose to fit...Opus Dei is fundie .....imho

[Beacho]

28. liberal christians act like *gasp* christians

That's usually the give away,

Ya know that charity-humility-'gentle as a dove' type stuff

[sam sarrha]

29. Tollerance and compassion.

[Kber]

30. Christian*

*term not affiliated with right wing religious nutballs, zealots, fanatics, fundamentalist literalists, the Christian coalition, the moral majority, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Tim LaHaye, or any other leader, spokesperson or representative of the politics of fascism and pseudo-theocratic tyranny in the name of faith. Unauthorized use, reduplication or cooption of this term by war mongering, fear imposing, homophobic, bigoted, sexist, racist, hate-spewing, religiosity-worshiping hypocritical buttholes is expressly prohibited.

** Stolen from a fellow DUer, but I don't remember who, so I apologize for posting w/out attributing.

[alfredo]

32. I voted clothing.

Fashion sense and fundamentalism do not mix.

[Zorra]

33. Beg for food outside a church - the people who kick you and call the

police would be fundies.

[Cobalt Violet]

37. Anyone who has to argue over my atheism is a fundy to me.

If they see my atheism as an opportunity for them to preach rather than what I am, I feel they are no different than a fundy.

[malmapus]

38. Have always known "fundies" to be

folks who take the Bible word for word (although they probaly don't practice what they read).

Never used liberal Christians, but have been called "Moderates", more open minded about the teachings in the Bible, not afriad to ask questions and have actual discussions. Where-as with a fundie thats not really possible since its all written in some form of hard stone in their eyes.

[ogsball]

39. If they follow Jesus or not?

Jesus was a liberal!

[The Zanti Regent]

40. What "liberal" christians?

Here in Los Angeles I saw church after church plastered with Bush signs.

I'm afraid the so-called "liberal" church died with Dr. King. It sure isn't doing anything here!

[LeftyMom]

41. Hair and cars.

the authentic circa 1987 hairstyle is usually a clue. A glimpse at thier vehicle should eliminate any doubt. Fundies generally like thier vehicles BIG. To match the hair, I guess, or to have more room for anti-Clenis bumper stickers.

[BernieBear]

42. RAPTURE RAPTURE RAPTURE BELIEF..........N/T

[China_cat]

43. As a friend of mine describes it

'fundie' just means religious asshole.

[hyphenate]

45. Fundies

are usually very easy to spot.

1) They believe in the literal translation of the Bible;

2) They believe that evolution is wrong, and creationism is right;

3) They quote biblical references to resolve their issues about things they don't like, like pro-choice, pro-death penalty, homosexuality;

4) They believe in the "Rapture" which supposedly will take all good Xtians to heaven and leave the rest of us to burn in hell eternally;

5) They believe they're better than anyone who isn't a fundie;

6) They tend to hover over every word coming from such radical asshats as Robertson, Falwell, and other slime like that;

7) They homeschool for the wrong reasons--i.e., they don't want their children to learn about sexual education or any science that contradicts creationism;

8) They somehow or another believe that GWB is christ incarnate, while the rest of us KNOW he's the devil incarnate;

9) They believe that Mohammed and/or the Pope is the anti-Christ (Catholics and fundies usually butt head to head about some things);

10) Their "bible" is short by some passages because Martin Luther decided not to include some of them (a friend told me this, but I don't know the details);

11) They believe that dinosaur bones and other fossils were put into the earth to "test us," either by the devil or the lord himself;

and finally,

12) They use the bible and other alleged "holy documents" to back up their own intolerances, prejudices and bigotry.

Most moderate Christians, as well as anyone who prefers to consider themselves more open-minded, simply have more tolerance, better judgement, and believe that a lot of what passes in the bible is allegory and not literal fact.

[doni_georgia]

46. A combination of things

What they say they believe. How they act. How they treat others. Plus around where I live, you can generally tell by which church they go to.

[fujiyama]

48. It depends mostly on one thing

If they are more riled up about wedge issues like abortion and gay marriage, they are most likely a fundy.

On the other hand, if they are mostly worried about justice and peace, they are a liberal Christian.

[OnionPatch]

49. Liberal Christians don't walk around with bibles

But perhaps I'm only speaking for myself.

One big difference I notice is that liberals go along with their lives without refering to God/Jesus, or talking about it much. You would have to get into a really personal, deep conversation before most liberal Christians would talk about their religious beliefs. Fundies, on the other hand, are always obsessed with their own personal relationship to God and, in my opinion, letting everyone else know about it.

Liberal Christians, on the other hand, are more obsessed with the things they do (for God) such as working on achieving peace and justice for all. They don't usually even feel the need to tell anyone they are Christians. You won't normally see a bunch of fish and Jesus bumper stickers on their cars because they aren't the types to push their religion on others and don't feel the need to brag to the world how "christian" they are.

Just my thoughts.

[WyLoochka]

50. Fundies are adherents to

doctrines developed by Paul, the majority of which are in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

In fact, from three years of first hand experience I learned that Fundies almost entirely dismiss the teachings of Jesus. No sermon on the mount, no parables - those things are ignored as "irrelevant." It isn't what Jesus taught that matters to the Fundies. It's the crap that "he's my personal savior because I said so in a prayer, so therefore I'm not going to hell even though I go on sinning now" - and that's as far as it goes - ie supreme selfishness in the now and even after death.

"Liberal Christians" adhere to the teachings of Jesus. But Paulinist Fundamentalism has crept into many of the liberal churches, over the past 30 years and taken over, driving the Jesus Christians away and replacing them with Paulinists.

[Cuban_Liberal]

52. Deeds, not words.n/t

[MountainLaurel]

53. You lift up their tail . . .

:evilgrin:

[KitchenWitch]

54. What are the DUers take on...

Pentacostals versus Fundamentalist Christians?

I seem to remember a conversation I had with a fundamentalist who stated his disdain for pentacostal christians. I didn't understand it, I mean they are both types of christians, you would think they would respect each other's differences within the "realm" of christianity.

I know fundies hate Catholics, have not been able to figure that one out, except maybe that Catholics via the Blessed Virgin have adapted the pagan Goddess into their ritual.