What Happens if the Vote Was Proven Rigged?

[MaryH]

What will happen. Nothing? Like every other mistake the Repugs have gotten away with.

What does the law mean. Who do we even have left to enforce the law?

Honestly, Do we just shrug it off and go, well Kerry won by 1,700,000 votes and also won the popular vote, but it's too late now. Bush got away with so he's the winner?

[Bucky]

1. Oh yeah, like that's gonna happen

Done deals don't get undone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. In the history of humanity

all societies that are under attack and abuse have a certian tipping point where they don't simply take it any more

So my question to you is... ARE YOU GOING TO LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT?

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. If it is proven

And it is COVERED in the MSM, then we may get enough of an outrage to get people ahem a demomstrating and we will be able to get rid of them

The problem is HOW FAR are YOU willing to go?

What are YOU WILLING to sacrifice?

Hell I'll ask, ARE YUO WILLING TO LAY DOWN YOUR LIFE?

Or are you just going to continue posting on a message board?

You can start now

Wear orange

DON'T participate in the economy as much as you can, and shop at local stores... (economic activism)

Find a local demonstration, they are happening...

DECIDE exactly what you are willing to do... and then DO IT.

After all, we have our marching orders, it is called the Declaration. You have sumarized the complaints back then, and it is time for a new tea party.

[DrWeird]

3. Bush's presidency will be even more illegitimate.

That's something for historians to remember.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. No it is something for you and me to remember

if they get away with it, they will do all they can to get their version written and this will be a very long night

[papau]

6. Public Pressure on Jan 6 makes Kerry President - more likely scandal

and calls for impeachment - which go no where - and the destruction of the GOP party.

Even more likely is our media ignores whole thing because we are no longer free and no longer a democracy.

[benburch]

7. Nothing will happen.

Any attempt to make something happen will be quashed.

We will be arrested and tried as terrorists because we don't have the guts to stand up to this.

[Nordic]

19. go to your dr. and get some Paxil

fer cryin' out loud

[Killarney]

8. It depends on when.

If we find out that Kerry really won BEFORE Bush is inaugurated (even the day before), then Kerry will be inaugurated.

If we find out that Kerry really won AFTER Bush is inaugurated, then it is too late. Bush is the President and that's that. Our only hope then is that we can tie Bush directly and complicitly with the fraud and if that is done (we would need the equivolent of the Nixon tapes for that one) then Bush is impeached, but Kerry is not president. It would just go down the line (Cheney, etc).

This is what should happen by law and by the constitution.

[Walt Starr]

12. Nope, read your constitution

If Bush is elected on January 6 via the Electoral College, it';s a done deal.

December is another drop dead date. If the electoral votes are submitted, it will be a done deal then.

The constitution is clear here. Rectifying the vote fraud becomes a state issue, not a federal issue and Bush is president regardless.

[Killarney]

16. No, I think you're wrong.

There was a professor who is an expert on constitutional law on Olbermann and he stated that constitutionally it's Inauguration Day that would be the final day. If it is proven the day before Inauguration Day that Kerry truly won, then Kerry would be inaugurated. He went into detail of why this is so and I forget the details. It was in the first week where Olbermann was doing the voter fraud stories--you can probably find a transcript if interested in the details of why this is so.

[Walt Starr]

24. Nope, the president is selected via the electoral college

on a date set by Congress. According to the U.S. Code, the ballots from the electors must be submitted by December 13 this year and January 6 is the date the electoral votes are counted and the election is completed. If there is a problem on January 6 whereby no candidate has a majority of the electoral votes, the House decides the presidency with each state having a single vote and the Senate decides the vice Presidency with each Senator having a single vote.

Anyway you add it up, Bush is president and Cheney is vice president in 31 days.

Sorry, but the "constitutional expert" didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

[Nordic]

21. why would that be too late?

I'd say we'd have a major constitutional crisis in our hands and the inauguration would be annulled.

[Killarney]

22. The professor guy on Olbermann said that

after Inauguration Day, constitutionally, whoever is Inaugurated is President. To get him out after that day, would require impeachment and that would require evidence that Bush was complicit in the fraud. And after impeachment, Cheney would be Pres, not Kerry. It was disheartening.

Basically it has to be done before 1/20.

[Walt Starr]

26. Nope, it has to be done before January 6

and then you need somebody willing to use a procedural ploy to even question the validity.

Basically, if you want to do something about it, you have a week because the slates of electors will be finalized and their votes cast by December 13 under Title 3 Chapter 1 of the U.S. Code.

[Walt Starr]

25. Nope, the decision is final on January 6.

Read the constitution and the U.S. code. If vote fraud is PROVEN on January 19, it doesn't mean dick.

[Zorra]

9. The Ukraine protested and threatened a general strike and it worked.

What would happen if 10,000,000 or more people did not work for a week or more, refused to buy anything but the basics, and held mass nationwide protests?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Now you are thinking

and this is what needs to happen

[Nordic]

11. Well, we haven't had the actual vote yet (EC) or the inauguration

furthermore, the guy can be tossed out at any time.

The constitution provides for this

[Megahurtz]

15. Well I hope they hurry

up with the investigation. Maybe if enough fraud is found we can file some kind of "STAY" order for the inauguration day until everything is complete.

(yeah right I wish)

[Nordic]

17. well if he didn't really get elected the inauguration is moot

it won't matter. Everything will be annulled.

We'll make sure of it.

[Walt Starr]

27. Constitutionally, there can be no "stay" of the inaguration

Once those electoral votes are cast next week (December 13) it will take impeachment because ven if the electoral votes are challenged via Congressional procedure, Bush/Cheney will still win and still be inagurated.

Sorry, but the cutoff date is really next week, December 13. Anything after that will only go to legitimacy, but the inaguration will still occur.

[BrendaStarr]

13. We need to go Ukranian!

We need to stop waiting for the heated buses to show up for a 1 day demonstration and get out and stay out.

Otherwise we have no one to blame but ourselves.

If you can't get to DC then pick a place you can get to.

Hey, if you pick your local city center then you can go after work every evening, maybe others will show up during the day.

Students should have a vacation soon they can do a lot then.

Forget the holidays.

For Pete sake democracy and any chance to have a say to stop the fascism of the Bush administration is dying.

Yeah it's cold. It was colder in the Ukraine. (Why do you think the election has been held at the beginning of the coldest weather?) Get what you need to stay out in it for a few hours every day and get out try to work up a crowd go to the biggest city center. Borrow money if you need it. If your friends and relatives can't make it, ask them to help you with warm clothes and food, transportation money so you can be their surrogate.
Maybe in the state forums the best cities could be selected for gathering, but first people could just get out. Take your laptop if you have one and check out WIFI places near city centers. You can stay connected even and call for reinforcements.

You need signs, of course, just standing around won't say anything, a large enough group needs fewer signs per person.

Try working with indymedia, making calls to others in the self publishing sections to come out and join you or here. If there is no one reading the state sections announce where you are in this section.

Challenge others to join you.

If we wait for some organization (especially one funded by corporations) to do anything we have lost and more than this election.

[maxsolomon]

14. what happened when the warren commission was released?

everyone knew it was BS, and nothing happened.

bush will be elected by the electoral college. you could set yourself on fire on national TV to stop it & nothing would happen except your death.

the laws mean nothing.

[Nordic]

18. I love these positive posts. Maybe this should be "Depressed Underground"

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. One person can and will be dismissed

one thousand chages the equation.

martin Luther King learned this... so what exactly are you doing apart of griping that is?

[m berst]

23. shouldn't feel helpless

A mass movement is what makes things happen. Nothing can happen without it. A mass movement starts with one person. Being that one person is all any of us can do anyway, but it is everything.

With each step taken everything changes. Until steps are taken nothing changes. You can only take one step at a time in any case. You can always take one step.

There already is a mass movement. It is dedicated to fear and hesitation, uncertainty and confusion. It is succeeding. You are contributing every day in everything you do.

The rules can't stop you. They are designed to support you. They are created with one express purpose - making it as easy as possible for you to govern yourself. Any barriers that are there exist only so long as you tolerate them.

Here are the rules -

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.