DLC Seeks to Purge the Icky People (e.g., Michael Moore)

[Stevendsmith]

Fom Matt Tabbi via Atrios:

http://tinyurl.com/63j6c

We've got to repudiate, you know, the most strident and insulting anti-American voices out there sometimes on our party's left... We can't have our party identified by Michael Moore and Hollywood as our cultural values.

—Al From,
CEO, Democratic Leadership Council

PS: There is a very lively discussion going on today bewteen Atrios and the decidedly centrist bloggers Kevin Drum and Matt Yglesias.

PSII: Count me out of the party of Bush-suckling Joementum.

[aquart]

1. Al From makes my skin crawl.

[ooglymoogly]

89. well zell miller , ed koch and leiberman will be right at

home there and they think they are going to take over the party.
well guess again.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edgewater_Joe]

2. I Say, Let Us Democrats Purge The DLC

Where "L" stands for "LOSER," of course.

[InvisibleBallots]

12. the Democratic Loser Committee?

You know, it's accurate, and it's catchy too!

[bunkerbuster1]

29. that acronym translation is so transparently obvious

that I'd never considered it before.

perfect, really.

Oh, and as I posted over at Atrios: I cannot believe that anyone at the DLC is falling for Rove's talking point from two fuckin' weeks ago!

Gawd are these demo-prats gullible! Rove had his army of mincing feebs call the AM hate-radio shows claiming to be "Kerry voters" who were "turned off by the lies of F9/11." Leave it to the DLC to actually fall for it.

[Worst Username Ever]

3. Hm. The Ann Coutlers, Bill O'Lieleys, and Rush's has sure hurt the

repugs. Not.

[Hello_Kitty]

27. Exactly!!

And have you ever heard one of their strategists publicly surmise that the GOP should distance themselves from those frothing nutcases. Hardly. WTF is wrong with the DNC/DLC sometimes?

[ooglymoogly]

91. odd analogy

ann coulter= right of republican party
dlc= right of democratic party....do the math. sorry i just realised you were talking abouy mm not the dlc so will edit
mm= left of democratic party and you get the brass ring

[fugue]

4. Oh, PLEASE!

How many more decades is the Democratic Party going to keep moving to the right before they figure out that it's not a winning strategy?

I've got some friends who want to start a new party; I've been nominated for Vice President. Maybe I should accept.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fugue]

19. In my opinion, Clinton was not a Democrat

Nor is his wife (my Senator).

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fugue]

31. Where do I begin?

The only Democratic position she holds is pro-choice on abortion.

Every time I get a voting alert from PFAW or MoveOn, unless it's a judicial appointment, when I check the voting record afterward, she's voted with the Republicans.

I liked her as a First Lady. I loathe her as my Senator. I wish I'd voted for the other guy in her primary. Now I'm stuck with her.

[elemnopee]

38. Socialized Medicine

very Republican, n/t

[IrateCitizen]

41. Except what Bill and Hill proposed wasn't socialized medicine...

The reason that their health care plan failed wasn't that it was a public plan. It was that it was overly complex and based on a two-tier system in order to ensure that the insurance companies got their cut of the action.

A single-payer program most likely WOULD have passed at the time. The Democrats had control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency in 1992-1993. But the program that Clinton proposed was so overly complex that they got bogged down in a public debate over how in the hell the thing was supposed to work, and the delay gave Republicans enough time to mount a campaign to sabotage it. In fact, some neoconservative thinkers like William Kristol credit the failed Clinton health care plan for being one thing that helped to galvanize the various factions on the right.

But bankruptcy reform, welfare gutting, 1995 Effective Death Penalty and Anti-Terrorism Act (prelude to Patriot Act), 1996 telecom deregulation, NAFTA -- none of these were exactly very "Democratic".

[fugue]

43. Does she still support that?

Back when she was a First Lady, yeah. It's possible I've missed it, but I haven't heard this out of her in a long time.

She's a DINO. I want her (and Chuck "Beef Up the PATRIOT Act" Schumer) out of there and some real Dems in.

[UdoKier]

76. Her proposal was a huge giveaway to the insurance compannies.

She should have proposed a single-payer plan. It's the only way to really make it cost-efficient.

[Sterling]

103. She is a total let down.

I voted for her and she has done nothing but disappoint me at every opportunity. I don't get what the freeps don't like about her and Bill, they did so much to water down the opposition to the freeper agenda they should be erecting monuments to the Clintonian era.

[Sterling]

23. You have my vote.

I already have more faith in you than our DLCers.

You are not skull and bones are you?

[fugue]

101. No

I graduated from an Ivy League (Cornell), but that's as close as I get. I am a first generation Ivy (second gen college educated).

The platform's concerns are support for a diversity of beliefs, the environment, and education. (One of my friend's has a Master's in K-5 education.) The person nominated for president (my college roommate) is a lawyer who lives in Washington DC (so she knows how it works), but her ideas are centrist Democrat. (She wrote the platform.)

I'm the far left wing of the party. I proposed that we adopt the Icelandic law regarding incomes over $100K/yr: tax income over that level so heavily that no one bothers to do it, hence no big stockpiles of wealth at the society's expense. That's what got me nominated for VP. ^_^

Thank you for your support, even if it's only because you have no faith in the DLC. ^_^

[Sterling]

104. I like this idea.

I'm the far left wing of the party. I proposed that we adopt the Icelandic law regarding incomes over $100K/yr: tax income over that level so heavily that no one bothers to do it, hence no big stockpiles of wealth at the society's expense. That's what got me nominated for VP.

[Spiffarino]

5. Al From can crawl back into his spider hole

...and be glad we haven't given him an atomic wedgie. He is a cancer in the Democratic party.

[Lord_StarFyre]

6. Al From can BLOW ME

...So far the only thing the DLC has done for us is lined us up, on our knees, with our butts in the air, to be ass-hammered by the Dumbya Regime.

Al From should tell his DINO story walking before someone drops a house on his maggot infested hind end!

[bunkerbuster1]

30. Glad it's you volunteering.

just sayin'.

[gottaB]

111. zowie

:D

[maxsolomon]

7. use their language, al.

fight on their field.

way to go.

[Anakin Skywalker]

8. Yet Another Sell-Out-Your-Values Type.

Anything for a victory, eh Al? Spineless coward.

[ulysses]

9. please, let them keep at it.

The DLC becomes more and more irrelevant every time Al From opens his fool mouth.

[charlie]

11. The DLC is having it's Sistah Souljah moment

I'll bet even Rush "Honorary Member of the House, Class of '94" Limbaugh is chortling over this. Dumbass ingrates.

[ulysses]

18. Sistah Souljah was a DLC moment. n/t

[pretzel4gore]

10. Michael Moore is the saving grace of the USA aka the Big One

if anyone seems to epitomise a country of people who work, it's Mike....al from hell can go to....

[sendero]

13. If these jackasses keep talking..

... I'm going to have to conclude Nader was essentially correct.

And I really do not like Ralph Nader.

But rather than purge MM I think its time we purge the likes of From.

[ulysses]

14. ...

**bites tongue in half**

;-)

[elemnopee]

39. This election proved Nader wrong

There was a large disparity in the two canidates, unlike Gore and pre 9/11 *

[bvar22]

67. The DLC proves Nader is RIGHT!

*

[Sterling]

105. Not really.

We get PNAC either way, that is really what matters in the end to the ruling elite.

[Career Prole]

15. They can't do that. That's like a parasite shedding its host.

Silly bastards got it backwards.

[Dover]

102. Well said!

Back asswards.

[hollowdweller]

16. When did the Republicans distance themselves from Rush Limbaugh?

Michael Moore has the potential for doing more to help the Dems than almost anyone else. The Republicans are trying to inoculate themselves by demonizing him but if he was doing Kerry commercials he would have won.

[twenty2strings]

21. I like Mike...and Ellen Goodman is soooo cute...

Okay already, Michael Moore is soooo cute too. Fuck the DNC!:bounce:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

22. DEMOCRATS WILL LOOSE EVERY ELECTION until they...

reform themselves and move away from this wishy washy centerist crap. Also, they need to stop this focus group crap.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. than I must be an "icky person" too. I don't believe the Dem party

can loose anyMoore members and survive...but if the DLC does this than it can count me and my family - which is Irish Catholic and quite substantional(10 sibblings and their children huge 100 member annual family reunions) GONE! GONE! GONE!

Michael Moore is a great Humanitarian and the DLC can go fuck itself IMHO!

[chicagiana]

81. Converse movement ...

I think we're oversimplifying.

The DLC is to the right economically and the left socially. It's the SOCIAL issues that are the big hangup.

The Democrats need too move BACK to the left on economics. AND, they need to move rightward (become moderate) on social issues.

[Sterling]

106. Exactly we need to start hating gays and immigrants

and supporting communism. That will work for sure.

Actually a little less corporate welfare would be good but I don't see the need for another anti human rights party. One is doing the job quite well.

[sangh0]

24. Is Moore a democrat?

I though he was a Green.

If no, then it's gonna be real hard to purge him from the party he doesn't belong to.

[Piperay]

26. NO, Moore is NOT a Democrat

shows how out of 'it' the DLC is.

[sangh0]

28. It also doesn't reflect well

on some DUers who are concerned about this

[Bridget Burke]

36. We're concerned about the DLC wanting to avoid Moore's support.

Whether Moore is a member of the party is not the question.

[sangh0]

77. I understand that

that's why I spoke of only "some" people, and not all. I realize that there is a valid concern here about not letting a valuable resource (that would be MM) go to waste.

[Sterling]

107. letting a valuable resource (that would be MM) go to waste.

Asa long as it is in the context of getting repuke ass licker's elected? I am not sure I understand your position from your posts so far?

You seem to be saying people should not respect Moore or his point of view?

[Q]

50. We're concerned that From is using the language of the RWingers...

...by calling Moore 'anti-American'. From has every right to disagree with Moore or his films...but smearing him in his way is unacceptable.

[sangh0]

78. I agree with that

that is a significant concern, and to me, the DLC's actions here indicate how out of touch they are with both the left, and with their idea of what dems need to do.

[Columbia]

84. He is in NY

[KG]

25. MM was a one man GOTV machine. no one person did more to

rally people to vote for kerry.

the DLC is an enemy of the dem party and every working american.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

49. AMEN KG!... Moore is a HUMANTIARIAN!!! and I LOATHE the DLC!!!

[JHB]

33. Reaching out to the opposition

[leesa]

34. These people are the only ones who got votes for you, idiot From

NO ONE would have been out voting if these people hadn't mobilized them. Shame on the DLC!

[YIMA]

35. It was just a matter of time really.

Those of us who are the true progressives have been promised at seat at the table for years, but we never get it. We've been told that our concerns are important, but then after we cast our votes, our voices are ignored. They've been playing us for years, but come election time we always fall in line. Now they'll come out publicly and say that the "crazy lefties" have been corralled and/or run off the reservation, but then come election time with a wink and a nod they'll tell us they just have to hide us from view until they win the office, only to be locked into the attic should they win. We're considered the ugly outcasts. It was just a matter of time until our leadership expressed its public disdain for the voters they need but would rather they were more center to right.

[Q]

40. I believe you'll see that 2004 is the last time we 'fall in line'...

...just to get a Corporate Candidate elected for the DLC. It was a moral imperative that Bush* be removed from office. But the DLC-controlled Democratic party refused to use Bush's* own record against him. We're still trying to determine exactly why.

The numbers show that the Democratic party can't win without the liberal / progressive base. There simply isn't enough 'swing' voters to take their place.

The DLCers were counting on the ABB vote to save the day in November. But it wasn't enough against the Bushie dirty tricks & smear machine.

In 2008 they'll realize that those they snubbed in 2004 won't vote for a Corporate or anti-progressive candidate because Bush* can't run again and more and more Democrats want to return to a grassroots party.

AND ISN'T IT STRANGE that From and gang never mention Limbaugh or the other 'anti-American' voices on the right? Why was Moore singled out? Because he was anti-Bush* or anti-Iraq war?

[YIMA]

44. Wish I could believe it....

....but it's going to be Hillary in 2008. It's hers if she wants it. I have this awful feeling that was the plan all along.

[Walt Starr]

63. If it's Hillary, I definitely will vote for other than a Democratic candid

for the first time in my life.

2004 proved one thing, compromising on principles is the road to disaster.

[Sterling]

52. It was for me I officially don't vote.

I dare the Dems to convince me I have to.

[chicagiana]

85. Welcome to politics ...

It's all about creating a majority consensus.

For a voter, it's all about choosing the lesser of two evils.


I do hope however, that the DLC has learned it's lesson regarding which candidates they should back. Kerry had an excruciating time separating himself from GW Bush

WAR -
Kerry's plan for the future was virtually IDENTICAL to that of Bush's. I agree that Kerry would have done it better. But to swing voters they were offering up the SAME agenda. The woulda, coulda, shouldas were ALL wishy washy. And Kerry's previous statements that Saddam Hussein had weapons were positively LETHAL!!!! Funny how the press never forwarded that until AFTER Kerry had won the nomination.

Here, Kerry failed to undermine Bush's credibility on the international stage. He refused to roll around in the mud and make the cast the GW Bush's international reputation was SOOO tarnished that NO ONE would work with him.

TRADE -
Kerry and GW Bush BOTH support NAFTA and WTO. Yes, Kerry would give some tax breaks to companies that hire domestically. Bush counters with tax breaks for EVERYBODY!!!! So again, it's there is very little difference.

HOMELAND DEFENSE -
Kerry (as well as Democrats as a whole) REFUSED to blame GW Bush for 9/11. This was the CORNERSTONE of Bush's campaign. See, look how well Bush handled a national tragedy. Look how STRONG he is.

The Democrats should have blamed 9/11 on Bush from DAY ONE. They would definitely get zinged by the press for this. But if they kept up the message, it would have gotten through. BUSH's FAILURE CAUSED 9/11. BUSH's FAILURES CAUSED 9/11!!!!

Kerry should have GUARANTEED that had he been president, 9/11 would have NEVER happened. He would have RESPONDED to warnings the way the Clinton administration did and would have "shook the trees" the way Richard Clarke suggested. The evidence was ALL there!!!!

While I'm 100% certain that Kerry would have made a MUCH better president than GW Bush, he didn't make a very good candidate. As a candidate, you must be able to differentiate yourself from the other guy.

BTW, the NEXT Democratic president will be the one calling for the end of NAFTA and WTO. We will continue to get hammered by China on the trade deficit irregardless of how low our currency drops. China pegs their currency to the dollar.

Free workers CANNOT compete on a cost basis with subjugated laborers who have no rights to collective bargaining. PERIOD!!!!

[Guitarman]

37. As much as I hate...

detest and loath the current POTUS. I cannot find a soft spot in my heart for Michael Moore either. He is all about promoting himself, making a quick buck and keeping his fat face on the news. If he wants to be part of the solution, he needs to be 100% factual in what he says and provide alternatives and solutions.

[Q]

42. Yeah...like the lying bastards running this counry are '100% percent'...

...factual. It's telling that Moore has become a target of the Right and the DLCers when the Bush* admin. has lied this country into a war and is the most secretive, corrupt executive branch in our history.

Shouldn't the buck stop at the top? Stop trying to make Moore a scapegoat for the failed Bush* WH.

[Guitarman]

58. Moore on oneside, Limbaugh on the other

They both suck. They are just different sides of the same coin. Neither of them are known for telling the truth. That is what I am interested in. Not what these blowhards spout.

[Blue_Tires]

79. where is moore not "known for telling the truth??"

just curious

[sadiesworld]

46. Why do you guys always give yourselves away with the "fat" comments?

To Michael Moore: Don't let the spoilers get you down. We KNOW they only demonize you b/c they are scared of the truths you tell. BTW, you don't have to shave and dress up in an effort to appease them-it'll never work. :yourock:

[Guitarman]

59. Excuse me while I vomit...

Please get up off of your Michael Moore worshiping knees and stop idolizing this guy. The only thing Michael Moore is interested in is lining his pockets. If you have to look to him to get the "truth" you are not doing your own job as a concerned or informed citizen.
The Democrat party needs to Heisman this guy as soon as possible. He is the freak show lightening rod that turned off more moderate and undecided voters than I care to count. If you want to convince people that Bush is an idiot, the facts will speak for themselves. But this guy and his half truths and fact stretching did more harm than good.

[Batgirl]

62. here, use this towel

no need to vomit on the furniture...

Maybe your upset tummy would feel better if you realized that a reluctance to join in some kind of gang-pummeling of MM does not equate to "worshiping" and "idolizing".

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. Fe Fi Fo Fum.....sniff sniff

[Guitarman]

60. That's right.

If you do not kneel and pray at the altar of Michael Moore, you must be a troll.
Sorry, but his ilk as well as the Coulters, Limbaughs all represent the freak show that encompasses politics anymore. I would not put a dollar into any of their pockets. If any of them told me it was sunny, I wouyld walk outside and check.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

65. name 1 untruth that MM aired in his films? perhaps you are as new to

politics as you are to DU?

[Q]

68. What a sillyass argument...

Stop playing the oppressed victim. It's not a matter of kneeling at the alter of Moore...it's about a stupid ass comment made by something that's suppose to be on our 'side'. Calling Moore or anyone else anti-American is something that Coulter or Limbaugh would do.

Only RWingers and DLCers seem to hate Moore as much as you. And what do you base your hatred on? Nothing but generalized BS

[Guitarman]

74. Just where...

in the hell did I say he was Anti-American? Stop writing between the lines.
Moore and the others let themselves become bigger than the issues they profess to care so much about. That is why i hate them.

[ilovenicepeople]

93. Why does Michael Moore scare you so much????

[Sterling]

108. Sorry anyone who would accuse people here of worshiping Moore

is a troll. I have a feeling you will NEVER justify your comments with anymore than insults and rhetoric. Your argument is short on facts and full of hyperbole and is word for word the same empty rhetoric of freeprs who infiltrate the board only to be exposed as the ignorant frauds they are.

You guys are so afraid of people like Moore that you cannot help but show your cards.

[m berst]

87. you don't know anything about him

"Quick" buck? Hardly. Self serving? Hardly. If those can be applied to Moore, they can equally be applied to every successful artist in the country. Moore's political actions probably cost him money, and this last year is the first real money he has made after dedicating himself to his work for over 20 years.

You can't possibly know anything about the man and say these things.

Moore is middle America Flint blue collar Catholic and alienates people who are right wing extremists and would be alienated by anyone they disagree with, and elitist DLC people.

You are just spouting the right wing smears of the man.

I just posted a story about Moore that gives you a glimpse into what he means to people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2795077&mesg_id=2799049

[Walt Starr]

45. If you ask me, From is pissed because Kerry came too close to winning!

Fucking Democratic Losers Council cannot abide anything that screws with their Republican masters!

[charlie]

53. Hee

Maybe so, maybe so... He's probably constipated because he can't use his boilerplate I-told-you-so this year, namely YOU DUMB FUCKERS RAN A MASSACHUSETTS LIBERAL AND THAT NEVER WORKS. Poor Al. Hahahahaha!

[MadHound]

47. Ahh, typical Democratic gratitude

Moore and the left wing Dems and independents did more this last election campaign in fighting Bush than the DLC/DNC New Dems have done in the past four years, yet now these centerist asshats want to purge us from the party, because they are afraid of controversy, ie they're afaid of pissing off the Bush regime. Not suprising, but it is still utter bullshit.

But hey, you don't want us, you want to give us the back of your hand after the way we fought for, bled for, and sweated for Kerry, fine! I imagine that most of us will go back or go find the Greens and devote our money, time and energy to a party that truly appreciates us, rather than one that is an ungrateful wretch. It just means that the Democrats will continue to move so far to the right that they'll merge and disappear into the 'Pugs, leaving the Greens as the only party standing that is for the common man.

You don't want us, fine, we're gone. Just don't bitch when you never win another election, and disappear into the dustbins of history. We'll go where our efforts are wanted and appreciated.

[GreenPartyVoter]

48. They can't purge me, so NYAH NYAH at From et al

-------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[HeeBGBz]

51. Is there a Permanently Pissed People's Party?

That may be where I'm heading.

[Batgirl]

54. how Republican leaders refer to the Pigboy

Ronald Reagan called him "the number one voice for conservatism in our country."

William Bennett on Rush: "the most consequential person in political life at the moment."

Jack Kemp said "he's certainly leading the fight against some of the far-left policies of the Clinton Administration and doing it with wit, wisdom, tenacity, and an irrepressible style."

Robert Dole referred to him as "a powerhouse antidote to the liberal cheerleading you hear all the time from the national media."

Phil Gramm said Rush "has had a profound impact on conservative thinking in America doing a lot more good than Republicans in the Senate are doing."

Not to mention, little George and Unka Dick have both been interviewed by Rush, thereby giving him the official Good Whitehousekeeping seal of Republican approval.

[fishwax]

95. Exactly! They embrace their pit bulls

while the DLC still wants to play nice and non-controversial. :mad:

[crispini]

56. Huh. Who died and made Al From king, anyway? n/t

[hatrack]

57. I'm sorry . . . . did I forget to vote for Al From? Was he on the ballot?

Did I somehow neglect my duty to support the courageous Mr. From and his staffing/office/salary needs?

Did I not do everything I could to assure Mr. From access to comfortable ergonomic office chairs, two-hour lunches and an adequate expense account?

Gosh, I'm so . . so ashamed!

[Justitia]

61. Democratic Weaselship Council

Al From should descend to whatever appropriate level of hell he originates from, I suggest the 9th, for traitors like the Judas he is.

[MrBenchley]

64. Wonder how many people in the party

would know Al From if they saw him?

[JHB]

66. How many slap/kick bruises are on his face/butt?

That's an indication of how few recognize him.

[MrBenchley]

69. Not nearly enough...

I've yet to see anything out of the DLC that wasn't idiotic and/or dishonest.

[Justitia]

71. here ya go, so folks will know treachery when they see it....

Jabba The DLC Hut

[MrBenchley]

83. Thanks...

[TWiley]

70. Well, they did such a wonderful job with the campaign

so, why not let them turn our party into another Republican Annex.

We could be shoehorned between church and country music.

[ilovenicepeople]

96. The Democratic party is a Republican annex.

If they held a re-count and Kerry won,Kerry would be the one fighting the hardest to nullify the result.

[UdoKier]

75. Let me get this straight - we ran a centrist candidate who was...

...against gay marriage and for the Iraq war. He lost, so the party needs to move further RIGHT?

Whatever.

[fishwax]

98. Massachusetts Liberal! Massachusetts Liberal!

We're running a Massachusetts Liberal. We have no chance to win with a Massachusetts Liberal! That's why we lost--we ran a Massachusetts Liberal! :eyes: :crazy: :puke:

The DLC has been carrying the water for the GOP for too damn long. There's a point at which you can't go any further right as a party and still be relevant. I think that line is in the rearview mirror, unfortunately.

[MisterP]

100. I love how fast the leadership did a 180:

first we don't have to worry about vote fraud because he's so *)+_@#*($+_@# wonderfully moderate, then we had no chance coz he was a nawthen now-gwwd librul.

[tokenlib]

80. We need a compilation of Al From's greatest quotes...

..for everytime the Democrats for the Leisure Class supporters tell us our distain for the DLC is unwarranted. I don't give a damn who is on the DLC membership list. Too many of the DLC powers are corporatized whores who want to lose the traditional "New Deal" soul of the Democratic party. It would be so much easier to talk about the DLC if obscenities wouldn't keep getting in the way of my thoughts.

[Solly Mack]

82. Al From can lick my icky people brown eye

He doesn't speak for me. He doesn't represent me.

[NewJeffCT]

88. Al said it badly

But, I understand that what he is saying is that people associate Michael Moore (and decadent Hollywood) with the Democratic Party... and, Moore has given the RW media plenty of ammo of the years to chip away at Moore: Moore's anti-American; Moore's fat; Moore is a rich elitist; etc, etc. It's not true (other than Moore being heavy) - but, that hasn't stopped Limbaugh, Rove & the RW propaganda machine.

The problem is that when the "mainstream" media wants to put on somebody that is against Bush & his policies, they are more likely to turn to Moore, that "liberal" Ted Kennedy or neo-con Joe Lieberman than they are to put on a rising young Democratic politician or somebody more relevant. With all the hype that Moore's movie got, he became the leader of the anti-Bush movement when it should have been John Kerry & John Edwards.

While I disagree that we need to disassociate ourselves with Moore & Hollywood, we need to do a better job of getting other faces out there to present our positions in a consistent manner. Part of that is the fault of the "so called liberal media", but part also stems from a lack of focused leadership at the top.

[IrateCitizen]

92. Thoughts on the "anti-Bush" movement...

With all the hype that Moore's movie got, he became the leader of the anti-Bush movement when it should have been John Kerry & John Edwards.

I can still remember attending a MoveOn.org house party this spring at which MM was on a conference call. The thing that he said that stuck out in my mind was, "We cannot leave it to the Democratic Party to lose this election. WE have to win it, if it is to be won."

John Kerry and John Edwards didn't become the leaders of the anti-Bush movement because they weren't even really part of it. They both supported the war on Iraq -- they just differed on how it was handled. Kerry spokesperson Jamie Rubin even said that Kerry would've invaded Iraq if he were President. They didn't directly challenge Bush on basic economic issues by presenting an alternative that was dedicated to fighting on behalf of workers. And they also didn't come out and blame Bush's negligence for 9/11, which you can bet your bottom dollar Bush would have done had the tables been reversed.

John Kerry and John Edwards didn't rise to the leadership of the anti-Bush movement simply because they did little to nothing to earn that spot. Perhaps if they had dared to be strident in their criticism, while offering forth a positive, true alternative narrative to what Bush was peddling, they might have fared a bit better. As it was, they couldn't have done worse than they did, even if it had cost them more states, because a loss is a loss at the end of the day.

[NewJeffCT]

97. the problem with that

The problem with that is that by winning the nomination, Kerry should have been the face of the Party, but Kerry was silent in August while the Swift Boat liars were savaging his military background; and he was overshadowed by Moore when F9/11 came out; he was silent while Republicans painted him as a flip-flopper as soon as he won the nomination...

And the "mainstream" media never bothered to cover Edwards and his message of 2 Americas while giving Cheney tons of coverage telling people to vote Bush or Die...

Moore was great doing what he did, but we needed others in the Democratic Party itself to step up and show their faces in public with a consistent message. Unfortunately, two of our more prominent faces in the media until the Convention were Neo-Con Joe Lieberman and Ted Kennedy, whom most associate with Chappaquidick... and they obviously did not have consistent talking points.

That is part of my criticism of Move On; ACT; etc... they had some fantastic commercials, but were all over the place in their aim. The Republicans had one message: Kerry was an unprincipled flip-flopper who can't be trusted with national security and will raise your taxes. Everything they did hit at least some of those talking points.
Some of our messages were about the economy, some on Iraq, some on the environment, some on the Patriot Act, some on terror. Why not the theme "Bush is two faced" early on? Keep pounding away at it, and it will sink in...

[Sterling]

110. "because they weren't even really part of it"

"John Kerry and John Edwards didn't become the leaders of the anti-Bush movement because they weren't even really part of it."

I am going to start a thread on this one sentance. It sums it up nicely does it not?

[Sterling]

109. Moore & Hollywood,

Maybe you should look at what kids wear and what people do for entertainment with their money. The idea people hate Hollywood is a RW myth. The fact is Americans are Hollywood. Hollywood is a direct reflection of American values.

[giant_robot]

90. Anti-american? This one's for you, Al