Has Anybody Read "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever" by Barbara Robinson?

[Not_Giving_Up]

My third grader came home today in an outrage that a book they read in school had the word hell in it. Turns out, these kids were so bad they thought they were going to hell. Figuring this for some attempt to force religion on my child, I looked online. I can only find brief descriptions of the book, but I need more detail. We don't go to church, we don't believe. More than once, my kids come home upset because some other kid told them they were going to hell if they didn't pray and go to church. My son explains evolution or Big Bang to anyone who preaches at him, but my daughter is much more vulnerable. Anyway, apparently the baddest kids in town go to church and learn the true meaning of Christmas...but that's about all I know. Anybody have details?


This is the link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0064402754/002-0360260-9510434?v=glance

[distantearlywarning]

1. I read this book as a kid.

I remember that it was a cute and funny book. I don't think it was really about religion, exactly (at least not in the sense of trying to convert anybody). It was about a weird family who finagles their way into the annual church Christmas pageant and causes chaos and humor. I remember liking it as a kid. I don't remember feeling preached to or anything by the book...

[Metatron]

2. One of my fondest childhood memories is that book!

Our teacher read it aloud to us and I thought it was absolutely hysterical in grade school. There is a video of it with Loretta Swit I believe. And it is always at the library in book and play form.

[Midlodemocrat]

3. It is actually a very sweet story

about the Herdman (sp?) family. The kids are awful and they are disrupting the annual church Christmas pageant, but in the end they are won over by the whole concept and it turns out to be the "Best Christmas Pageant Ever".

[intheflow]

4. I've read it.

Christmas schlock, imho.

As to "the baddest kids in town go to church and learn the true meaning of Christmas..." Yes, that's the explicit message in the story. But implicit in it is the message that everyone judged these kids harshly because they were poor and rowdy, but in the end everybody learned not to judge people.

Still, it has no place in a public classroom. If it were great fiction, like Dicken's Christmas Carol, an argument could be made. But really it's just crappy writing and a secular story.

[Not_Giving_Up]

5. Yep, that's what I thought

I never read this in school, and I was raised by fundies.

Now I guess the question is, do I raise a stink about it? After all, they've read it. Are they going to read it again?

[1monster]

9. No, don't raise a stinnk about it unless it is being used to force

religion on the school children.

If you do, then you are in danger of sounding a lot like the people who raised a ruckus about the Harry Potter books.

While I believe in a Force, Creator, Higher Power, what-have-you, I do not embrace any formal belief system and wouldn't call myself a Christian. But I have no problem with allowing my son to know about Christianity and those beliefs. I feel the same about Buddism, Hindusin, Islam, Wiccan, etc.

Ulitimately, he will make his own decision about what he believes, regardless of what I do or don't believe. By allowing your children to be exposed to whatever beliefs are put before them now, you can answer their questions, doubts, and want-or-don't-want-to-believe problems while they are young. It's like giving them the ammunition they need to fight off the cultist that prey on those who don't know what they are about.

C. S. Lewis's CHRONICLES OF NARNIA is very tranparently Christian oriented, but I really enjoyed the seven books in the series and have no problem with my son reading them.

A good story is a good story even if it is slanted toward one or another belief system. You can always emphasize that it is fiction, not reality.

[Not_Giving_Up]

14. I do believe that she should make her own choice about what to believe

However, she is a very impressionable eight year old, and I know she's not ready to make that decision yet. My fundie parents try...she asked me one night why we didn't pray before we went to bed, grandma does. I don't think this should be read in public school, even in Texas!

[politicat]

41. Please read it. As an atheist very involved with the public schools

I have no issues with it. It's far more a tale about not taking people at surface value and learning to look for the jewel that is in everyone than about promoting religion or even a holiday.

In a lot of ways, it has a lot in common with "A Christmas Story" in that it's silly and funny and poignant. Give it a read.

And, as an atheist, I'm okay with it because it does have a very liberal, very compassionate look at the theology of the new testament. It's kind of the same concept as the evolveFISH button that says "Mary was an unwed, pregnant teenager."

Pcat

[clydefrand]

13. I was a teacher and for several years I either read it to my students

or we read it as a group. It is certainly a different twist on the traditional Christmas pageant. It is funny and poignant. May I suggest that you get the book and read it yourself before you "raise a stink about it". You might be pleasantly surprised. If not and you object to it being used in school for other children you may have, then speak up and ask that your child/children be exempted from reading it. I'm not supporting religion being taught in school unless it's teaching about different religions to enhance tolerance of all religions. But we also must remember that many children "believe in Christmas" even if it's only to get the gifts.

Perhaps you could tell your child to say to other children that she doesn't discuss religious matters in school to prevent unkind words from classmates. Believe me, I know from personal experience when I was in elementary school, we had Bible class every week. I especially remember 6th grade. We had a little notebook in which we were to keep a page that showed the Sundays we went to church and when we didn't. I was ashamed each week because I rarely went to church. I must admit that I resorted to cheating and saying I went when I didn't. As a teacher I know first hand how unkind children can be to one another.

[Not_Giving_Up]

16. I do plan to get a copy of the book and read it...I'll hit the library

on my lunch break tomorrow. I realize I have no business complaining about a book that I haven't read. That was one reason why I was looking for more information on it.

Both of my children tell the other children that they don't want to talk about church stuff, but it doesn't do much good. Being raised by fundies I know that you are sent on a mission to convert everyone you meet.

[ixat]

31. No, seriously, I think you need to chill about this book...

It really seems pretty harmless, not preachy in any case, and not every mention of religion needs to be excised from public curricula. Let's try not to be extremists here. :)

[politicat]

39. And you have problems with secular stories in public schools because???

3rd graders have a tough time with Dickens' language. This is a story written for children.

You don't have to read it, but it's a children's book. There aren't a lot of holiday tales told without preaching. So please justify your issue with the secularism.

Pcat

[LizW]

6. It's a funny story

As I remember it, the family of mean kids start going to Sunday school because they think there are treats there. The reason they think this is because they steal other kids' snacks every day and finally one of the kids tells them, "I don't care. I get all the snacks I want at church." He thinks that is the last place the mean kids will ever be, but of course, they show up the next Sunday and that's the day the Christmas pageant is being cast.

It's hilarious, and sweet at the end.

[Not_Giving_Up]

7. OK, but here's my thing

Is Jesus mentioned in the story? We don't do the Jeebus in this house.

[knitter4democracy]

10. I would contact the teacher

It really isn't an appropriate book in a public school, I don't think. I read it as a kid and liked it, but it's very much a Christian book.

As for the kids telling your kids that they're going to hell, my response is always, "How do you know? Have you read the Book of Life? Oh, I get it, you wrote it . . . " That, and, "So, did Mother Teresa go to hell? She was as Catholic as they come, and your church doesn't like Catholics." Or just have your kids remind them that Jesus says not to judge (Matthew 7:1) and that St. Paul said that nonbelievers will be judged according to their beliefs (I can't find it right away but will keep looking).

[LostinVA]

19. Jesus Is Mentioned

In the context of the play, because it is a Christmas pageant. Robinson could have used a school play as the center of the story, but it would have lost the main thrust of the story: pointing out the hypocrisy of these "religious" people who condemn the Herdmans.

I agree with the other posters: it's a harmless book, and a book that has actually been on several banned lists because it "ridicules" Christianity.

Please, read the book.

[LizW]

27. I'm sure Jesus is mentioned

as in "the baby Jesus" (it's about a Christmas play). But I don't remember it being heavy at all. YMMV, though.

[LostinVA]

12. Don't Paint This with the Fundie Brush!!!

It's the very OPPOSITE of shoving God and religion down someone's throat. One of the main thrusts of the book is that the most "religious" people who run the church are actually the most hypocritical and judgmental people. ie, people that would have turned Joseph and Mary away for being poor trailer trash (just like the Herdmans are perceived in the book). The point is that people shouldn't judge anyone, and that EVERYONE has good in them under their scary, dirty, DIFFERENT exteriors.... we aren't supposed to judge by appearances, but look into people's hearts, and what they do.

Look, I'm a flaming atheist, but Jesus was a good guy with a good message, and that's what this book teaches. i swear that's it.

the use of "going to hell" in the book: the prissy daughter of the hypocritical church busybody basically says the Herdmans are going to hell because they smoke cigars (amongst other things). The protagonist of the book is like, whatever (she's the daughter of the nonjudgmental woman who is tricked into running the pageant).

For the record, I'm a librarian.

[Not_Giving_Up]

17. I'm not painting with Fundie Brushes, calm down

I said I was raised by fundies. So, do I get a little paranoid when I think my kid is being brainwashed into religion at school? You betha!

[LostinVA]

22. I Am Calm, I Promise!

I just agree with the poster who mentioned Harry Potter. It is a very funny story that points out the Pharisees that control alot of churches (like your Fundie parents' church, I bet!). I myself loathe heavy-handed religiosity, having had it slammed down my throat during catechism. It's just the first of many reasons while I can't stand * -- He's a Pharisee, and Jesus would not be pleased with his actions...

They did an okay, quite faithful, TV version about 15 years ago starring Loretta Swit. It may be showing the next few weeks on TV.

It's a slim book, you can probably read it in 90 minutes.

Good luck!

[LWolf]

8. It's a great book.

Personally, I loved the Herdmans.

You see the Herdmans through the lense of the stereotypical "normal" people. And they don't look great. But there's more to it than that.

There are many interesting issues to explore presented in this book. Some of them may be a little beyond the average 3rd grader, who will view the story more literally.

You don't have to be xtian to appreciate the story. I'm not, and I do.

They wouldn't have read it all in one day; did your child get the whole story?

Regardless, it sounds like you need to check out a copy and read it for yourself to judge. Then you might read it together. That way you can point out the subtler issues, and move the focus away from religion, and towards the story.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. I liked it too

And I looked for it so I could read it to my students this year. But the library's copies were all checked out.

I thought it had more of a 'don't judge other people because they are different' message than a pro-Jesus theme. And I don't see any problem reading it in a public school classroom.

[LWolf]

30. I think I found it because a teacher shared it with me.

I was ordering books for the library. It's been a favorite in classrooms for a decade and a half now. You are right about the message.

It has to be ok for characters in literature to be like people in real life; faiths, or lack of, traditions and culture, flaws and dysfunctions. The best stories are, at their core, about our humanness in all of its glory, absurdities, and disorder.

[Alex146]

11. I remember the character steals money out of the church basket

it was a good book. I liked it.

[jmowreader]

15. I'm shocked that they would use this book in a public school

The Herdmans are absolutely the worst kids in the history of the world. They lie and steal and smoke cigars (even the girls).

Oh my God! Children smoking CIGARS! Why, if our children read this THEY'LL want to smoke cigars!

Well...until they find out how much cigars cost, that is.

Really, the book's pretty harmless.

[InvisibleBallots]

20. any books promoting Christianity should be banned

school is no place to learn about religion!

[LostinVA]

24. The Book Does Not Promote

Christianity. It MENTIONS Christianity. Like almost any piece of literature written by an American or European. There are many children's books also centered around a character living in a Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. culture, but this doesn't promote it. This book actually says that a heck of a lot of Christians suck.

Again, I am NOT a Christian! I am a recovered Catholic, who can't believe I was once yelled at for refusing to swear on a bible.

I'm not saying you don't have a right to be concerned about this, and you certainly have a right to express these concerns with the teacher. I just get really nervous when people use the words "ban" and "book" in the same sentence, no matter what their political beliefs.

Remember, people, we are all on the same side!

[distantearlywarning]

28. Isn't this just like that Alabama senator mentioned

yesterday who doesn't think that any book written by or mentioning a homosexual should be bought with public funds????

Context, people, context!

Let's not get as crazy as they are. I personally wouldn't have a problem with a Bible in a school library. Or a Quran. Or a text on Paganism. Religion is part of learning too (and I don't mean that you have to get religion to learn, I just mean that it, like history and mathematics and psychology and science, is an important part of human culture and should be studied and understood).

Furthermore, as many people have pointed out, this particular book is not even a "religious text"! It's a funny story that makes fun of hypocritical religious people. And no offense, but if I had an 8 year old daughter, I think I would try to explain things to her rather than forbidding her to read certain kinds of books. That's what my parents did for me and I turned out to be a great critical thinker who is not often swayed by religious or other rhetoric.

Fundies try to keep their children from reading certain kinds of books in school. That's one reason why their children turn out to be sheeple.

[ixat]

32. What LostinVA said, and besides, school IS a place to learn about religion

Religion is a part of both world history and daily life, and banning any and all mention of anything religious from schools is exactly like abstinence-only sex education, in that it is an attempt to educate through ignorance. As a progressive, I take exception to that.

[LWolf]

33. Books should not be banned

from the left or the right.

As someone who has spent years doing collection development for school libraries, and who has included the following books "banned" and/or challenged in schools around the country in those purchases, I will stand against censorship in any form, from any group or individual:

Scary Stories (Series) by Alvin Schwartz
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
Harry Potter (Series) by J.K. Rowling
Forever by Judy Blume
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Alice (Series) by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
My Brother Sam is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
The Giver by Lois Lowry
A Day No Pigs Would Dieby Robert Newton Peck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle
Fallen Angels by Walter Dean Myers
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
The Stupids (Series) by Harry Allard
The Witches by Roald Dahl
Anastasia Krupnik (Series) by Lois Lowry
Blubber by Judy Blume
Killing Mr. Griffin by Lois Duncan
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
We All Fall Down by Robert Cormier
Julie of the Wolves by Jean Craighead George
To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
Bumps in the Night by Harry Allard
Deenie by Judy Blume
Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes
The Boy Who Lost His Face by Louis Sachar
Cross Your Fingers, Spit in Your Hat by Alvin Schwartz
A Light in the Attic by Shel Silverstein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret by Judy Blume
Guess What? by Mem Fox

And many more; these are just some of the first 50 or so "100 most frequently banned books" listed by the ALA. Some are young adult novels that deal with mature subject matter. Some are classics. Some are picture books.

Banning books because they don't align with your personal belief system is not democratic.

Banning the use of materials that include any of the myriad beliefs or povs to be found in the U.S. or the world is not ok, either.

Expecting that materials used will not promote or "teach" one particular faith, or political pov, is legitimate. Expecting that teachers will not try to use materials in such a way as to indoctrinate children into their own personal belief system is legitimate. Violating either of these expectations is cause for action.

Banning books, information, or ideas is not an appropriate action.

[Not_Giving_Up]

35. I never said the book should be banned

I'm not trying to ban the book, please understand. I'm going to the library at lunch today to read it.

My fundie parents forbid Thundercats, He-Man, She-Ra and many other cartoons because they were considered demonic or satanic. I was not allowed to listed to "secular" music, they actually collected my tapes for a burning, but the church couldn't get a permit. I absolutely want children to be free to read whatever they CHOOSE to read. I am just not certain that the teacher should have read it to the class as they followed in copies at their desks. That just seems forced.

[LWolf]

43. That's a gray area.

Technically "read to the class" can be considered to be "used as curriculum," since it's not a choice. Curriculum falls under much stricter regulations than books that are just available. In reality, it isn't "taught" or used as curriculum unless children are asked to do something specific with it. In the end, even if it is "used as curriculum," it shouldn't be a problem unless it is used to "teach" a faith. I don't think this book does that on its own; it would have to be misused to reach that conclusion.

If there are enough copies for each kid to have one to follow along with, you may find that it is a set of class literature from the curriculum center, and has already been approved for classroom use. (Unless the teacher bought a whole class set herself.)

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the Herdmans as much as I did. ;-)

[noonwitch]

40. The school shouldn't promote religion, but kids should be allowed to read

books that interest them, and some kids are interested in religion.

I read this book a while back-it's not promoting any religion, it's a story about a Christmas Pageant at a church, and what happens when the family of really wild kids takes it over. Unless you consider any thing that mentions religion, discusses it or in which the characters go to church to be a problem. Then, no Laura Ingalls Wilder, no "Caddie Woodlawn", and a whole lot of other traditional kids' books are off limits in school.

[Raiden]

21. I read that book in grade school

and I remember that it was a really good book and was very funny. I wouldn't get too heated over it.

[bobbieinok]

23. read it recently for the first time...found it very funny...theme:

hypocrisy

[checks-n-balances]

25. My thoughts as a Christian (trying to be) and a school teacher...

1. You who say you remember this from grade school are making me feel VERY OLD! lol

2. I'm kind of surprised that the school allows a story about a Christmas pageant at a church in this day and age! Ironically, though, even though it's in a Christian setting, it does have somewhat of a theme of cultural diversity (people who don't seem to fit in at a church). Part of the reason for not dwelling on Christian themes any more at school is to avoid a "tyranny of the majority" (church/Christian culture) that may make kids feel left out.

3. As a classroom teacher, I might have more of a problem with the behavior themes in the play. While I DO believe that God loves both "loveable" and "unloveable" people, there are certain behaviors in the classroom that can be disrespectful and against the rules. If I were the teacher in a class reading this story, I would make sure that the students understood that the Herdmans' behaviors were never really totally OK or acceptable because the seemed to be disrespectful, but that they were not "bad people." Their behavior were sometimes unacceptable, but they were not unacceptable as human beings. In other words, I hope no kids would try to test out their school or teacher because they didn't get the point of the story.

4. Given the time and opportunity, I will pontificate on just about anything, so don't mind me!

[stanwyck]

36. You must be a Christian

because you said "trying to be" and that is the essence. Christianity is a journey. Jesus said "I am the path. I am the way." Too many people say, "well, I'm a Christian...." then go on to justify their behavior with that proclamation. Those who have actually read The Bible know that being a Christian is about the continual journey, not the bragging. Those that bray the loudest usually are those farthest behind on the path.

[yellowdogintexas]

26. It is produced locally in live theatre by at least two theatre groups

here in Fort Worth. I was planning to try to see it this year, and I have heard it is hilarious.

Apparantly the baddest family of kids that ever hit the planet have to be in this Christmas pageant and it drives the teacher nuts

[ebdarcy]

29. I read the book when I was about nine years old.

I liked the book a lot. I didn't think it was preachy; it was a cute, harmless story. I am an atheist and have been since middle school. I was ambivalent about Christianity in elementary school, which is when I read the book. This book had no impact on my beliefs.

However, I would ask your daughter how the book is being discussed by the teacher. If the teacher said something like "It's unchristian to judge someone," then there's a problem.

[newyawker99]

38. Hi ebdarcy!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[politicat]

42. Hi, ebdarcy! Make sure you come introduce yourself in the Atheists and

Agnostics Group!

Pcat

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noel711]

37. You guys make me smile....

First, the book "Best Christmas...et al.." is a lovely story showing how inclusivity makes life better. The church is really a backdrop, not preachy at all, except ya get tears in yer eyes at the end.... not to be preachy meself, but it shows how God uses all kinds of folks to do her work here. Which is really what the church should be about, not about purity codes and impossible standards.

And the comments about the "banned" books, it's sad that in the 21st century we, a nation, feel threatened by free thought and the printed word. I say: let them all read books. Give your kids those banned books. Let's have banned book clubs. With those kinds of standards, the Bible should be banned. Lord knows its a dangerous book.

[ibegurpard]

44. If I recall (it's been years since I read it)

religion and the church are not the point of the story...they are incidental backdrops to a story that shows that preconceptions about certain types of people can be shown to be false. A good message, in my opinion.