Is it finally time for a divorce ?

[kentuck]

But don't get off the boat unless you're ready to take it all the way. Al From of the DLC ridicules the Michael Moore-types and "liberal leftists" in general. We are supposed to sit down and shut up. They know what is best for our Party. And Howard Dean is not a part of the Democratic Party' future.

But Howard Dean is the biggest threat to the DLC and the status quo. What happens if Howard Dean runs as an Independent Democrat, from the "democratic wing" of the Democratic Party? Does that fatally split the Democratic Party? Suppose Howard Dean wins? Suppose he defeats the status quo? Where do they go? Do they drop out? Do they vote Republican? Or do they stay with the Party?

The time is near. Irreconcilable differences have brought us to this point. It is mostly up to Dr. Dean.If he decides to run as an Independent Democrat, he will be a very powerful voice. And he may get custody of the children?

[wtmusic]

1. Good metaphor

and maybe the Dean "scream" is as well...we've had enough, and we're not going to take it anymore

[ewagner]

2. Sort of like root canal

You know if you don't do it you will probably die, but you dread the pain and the process. I'm getting angrier and angrier at the "moderates" in the Democratic Party....I don't think the future of the party lies in moving farther to the right side of the spectrum, or abandoning our principles.

It will be painful. It may cost us the 2006 elections. But sooner or later it will have to be done.

[rucky]

3. Al From fiddles while Democracy burns...

FWIW, I say let them have their little purge.

tensions have been too high for too long, and while we're under one-party rule, we may as well have it out once and for all. It'll at least get some things churning. Anything is better than the past 4 years (except maybe the next 4 years).

[Walt Starr]

4. The DNC Chairmanship tells the story

If it's a DLC toadie who wins that, it's divorce time.

[crispini]

19. Who on the list would you consider a DLC toadie?

Simon Rosenberg once worked for the DLC but some of his ideas sound pretty good:

''We will only succeed if we build an entrepreneurial culture in Democratic politics,'' Rosenberg said. ''What we are is this beleaguered group of badly funded, nonscalable nonprofits. You know, Luke Skywalker was able to kill the Death Star with his beleaguered band of warriors, but I'm not sure that that's the model we should shoot for -- shoot the thing down the middle of the tube and hope it blows up the Death Star. We need to build our own answer to the Death Star.''

more:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/6/112326/490

[Walt Starr]

27. I'll wait to evaluate until after the Chairmanship is announced

A lot can happen between now and February, especially with the DLC attempting to flex its muscles.

[crispini]

30. But shouldn't you pick someone you can campaign for?

Contact your DLC reps, etc? That's kinda what I'm trying to do.

[Walt Starr]

34. I'm lobbying for Dean

IMO, Dean is the only man for the job. Nobody else will be capable of getting this party back on track.

[crispini]

36. I would like Dean the most.

Because he has fire and passion. But ever since I heard that Martin Frost would be interested, I think he might be an acceptable second choice for me. From firsthand experience, he ran a helluva campaign. Ground game, grassroots, PR, all orchestrated together. It was some good stuff.

[kentuck]

37. Frost is the choice of the DLC...

same old, same old....

[crispini]

38. Ya think? Where did you see that, I'm curious?

Do you have a link to the article?

I just have firsthand experience with Martin's abilities and think he's a good guy. He sure wouldn't be a firebrand like Dean, thought, that's for sure. Do we know how various factions on the DLC are leaning?

[kentuck]

41. I have followed him for years....

He's a tool of the DLC. A "moderate" who will show flashes of brilliance only to sink back under the spell...

[BigMcLargehuge]

5. they complete their conversion to the dark side

AL and the DLC become ACTIVE republicans instead of DINOs.

I say let it happen, good riddance to bad baggage. We can rebuild the party around the progressive values that SHOULD drive the Democratic party instead of an increasing bent towards capitulation and appeasement with the Republicans.

[janx]

6. Howard Dean is a threat only in that the PEOPLE are a threat.

People like Al From do not want a populist movement--real democracy--happening.

Dean is important not because he is Dean--like some messiah figure people ridicule around DU--but because he has empowered the electorate. We are looking at American history and figuring out that we are supposed to be the ones controlling who represents us.

That doesn't go over well with the From types in D.C..

[rucky]

9. we are all supporting (or attacking) the metaphor that is Dean

and if Dean wants that job, why not give it to him? we need some kind of leader. so folks can say what they want about him, at this point I can think of nobody else better qualified to take on the populist cause (unless John Edwards makes a bold move soon).

[janx]

10. Dean won't take the job unless he is allowed to reform

the party. The people who are backing Dean want to recreate what the DNC chair does and how the whole thing is structured. The people who want to maintain control are going to fight that, no doubt.

He's giving a speech Wednesday about the future of the Democratic party. It should be an important one. I can't wait to hear what he says!

[quiet.american]

7. People-Powered Howard!

Remember that? :)

I've been reflecting lately on this question:

How much power does the DLC derive from us, the people? What can be done to disenfranchise the DLC, as they seem to be in the full-time business of disenfranchising unapologetic Democrats, of which, I am guessing, there are millions of us.

Why do we allow the DLC to call the shots for this party and what can be done on a practical basis about it?

[crispini]

8. Are we speculating about the big announcement today?

I have to admit, I'm afeared of what you say. I've been reading lots of Lakoff, and I really believe we have to unite to win. I also don't think we're gonna win by moving to the right, though. Lakoff says, know your core values and appeal to your base, don't try to dilute your message.

I just hope the big annoucement by Dean today is that he will get (edit: go for) the DNC position. Randi Rhodes thinks so, anyway.

(edited to fix acronym)

[janx]

11. What announcement?

?

[crispini]

12. Crap. It's not today, it's tomorrow.

Sorry.

Dean gives big webcast, noon EST: http://www.democracyforamerica.com/

[janx]

13. Oh, yeah. The speech.

It promises to be important.

[janx]

26. I'm not sure he's going to let us know yet.

There are some DNC folks meeting on Dec. 11 (I think?) to mull this over. The speech might be a prelude to that.

I could easily be wrong, but I think this speech is going to pretty much "lay it on the line" as to Dean's and DFA's positions on a lot of things, including the future of American democracy.

[chaska]

32. We need to remember it's the middle that's moveable, not the base.

They can change their opinions. But we can't continue this erosion of our base and have a prayer of winning.

Besides, as always, it's simply the right thing to do. Someone has to represent US.

[mandyky]

53. I think it is more about the future of the Democratic Party

than the announcement that he is running for DNC chair. He wrote an article for YubaNet - Howard Dean: The Future Of The Democratic Party on Monady - http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_15941.shtml

<snip>
Since Election Day, there has been a lot of predictable moaning and groaning about the future of the Democratic Party. Particularly predictable are the suggestions that we need to be more like Republicans in order to win. Democrats need to learn by our previous mistakes - we have tried being “Republican-lite” and it does not work. It is a mistake to run away from the things we believe and I think we can win in the so-called Republican states by being real Democrats.

We have to realize that there are no red states and no blue states, just American states. I believe the country is still more in sync with Democratic values than Republican values. Our task is to remind ourselves and the American people of the hallmark issues that distinguish Democrats from Republicans.
</snip>

[Iris]

14. I wonder. . .

Some of my Republican friends wanted to vote for a Democrat, but they didn't like Kerry (I still don't understand what that means), but could it be possible that we could not only get the "fringe" of the Democratic party, but also some votes from people who are voting Republican simply b/c they don't like the other choice?

[m berst]

49. talking about that

Hi Iris. We are talking about that on another thread. I'd be interested to hear what your Republican friends were saying.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2795077#2797227

- Mike

[PATRICK]

15. Dean is no lefty liberal

but he is not one of the in crowd that still squats on top of the Dem Losership Clique. The despicable marginalizing of Dean under false pretenses is yet another example of the lying untrustworthiness of the in crowd. There is nothing left of their vision of things except a shipwreck. The Repugs and the big donors wouldn't have them except as pets who have served the GOP very nicely. They act like pets already. They belong to no party and block democracy itself. They can't even talk honestly or take personal responsibility.

So they attack Dean as "dangerous". They will continue to snipe from the wings should he squeeze them there and destroy the party before allowing it to represent the base.

Where does Frum get HIS money from.

The reasonable arguments are disappearing in the trash talk of despicable leadership survivors. As usual, what they are opposing they are actually enabling by arrogant abdication of both principle and reason. If there are more "reasonable" alternatives to Dean or some other real Democrat the discussion is being wiped off the map by the miserable failures now on top. People are dying daily for their failures. Democracy is in ruins. What unreal world would the DNC have us believe in with bloody hands?

[chaska]

33. I agree, that whole scream thing was a con by the powers that be...

in OUR party.

[IStriker]

59. I agree...

you nailed it. I don't know why they decided that Dean had to be deep-sixed, but I am convinced that it was Soros (the $ man) who gave the order to the press to take down Dean so they could run Kerry. If you look at how few people voted in the Democrat primaries, I don't think there is any mystery about how Kerry got the nomination.

[InvisibleBallots]

16. Dean doesn't have enough support to run as an independent

He would do worse than Perot. He'd do better than Nader though.

[kentuck]

18. Nobody said "independent" - we said "Independent Democrat"....

I hope there is a difference. Howard will appeal to "Democrats" - not some fringe element.

[InvisibleBallots]

20. Dean's wing of the Democratic party isn't big enough to win

elections. At least, not yet. Dean's stand on gun rights and his overt appeals to working class whites in the south are a good starting point, but let's not fool ourselves, we're not even close yet.

[kentuck]

24. No wing is big enough to win at this time, it seems, but.....

you should not make the mistake of thinking that the only votes that Dean would get are his present hard-core supporters. I do think he would need to go thru te Democratic primaries but I think he could win if he played his cards right.

[janx]

29. So do I.

Especially now. He was right about everything.

[Bush was AWOL]

71. I wouldn't vote for Dean over another Democrat

and I would never vote for a Republican.

[kentuck]

17. To further define the analogy....

It's like an abusive spouse. They give you a black eye and kick you, then they turn around and do something you agree with and then you are sure they truly love you. You make up and are supportive until they hit you again and the whole cycle repeats itself....

[YIMA]

22. I made that point on the other thread.

Those of us who are the true progressives are always promised, but never receive, a seat at the table. We are told to shut up, stay hidden, and when our Democratic representatives are voted in, they'll look after our concerns. But they never do, we just get ignored until the next election cycle when they blame the repukes, and all along they never even really tried. For all our talk of the repukes being sheep, we certainly do our fair share of bleating hoping that (like you said) they'll one day love us.

The problem is, if the Democrats reject us, or tell us if we stay to just keep quiet because our "far-left" viewpoints are chasing voters away, where do we go?

[kentuck]

31. Yes. We will leave but we'll take the house and the kids.....

They are not as powerful as they think. They have gotten "tag-along" votes - not necessarily people who agree with their politics. They have been able to keep a respectable number of Democrats on board to keep from being embarrassed... but not enough to win.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Howard Dean or someone like him are the future of the party

Some say Dean is too moderate to be head of the party. Others paint his as a liberal. For me, that matters not a whit. What he *is* is a person of conviction and passion - two qualities sorely missing in our party's leadership.

The grass roots has it.

Some of our leaders, like Dean, have it.

Party leadership ...... ? Sorry. Nope. Not there.

However, *if* he chooses to run as a third party or independent, he will go the way of all other such efforts. The structure of American politics is simply too rigidly stacked so as to favor only a two party system.

No, our only viable strategy is to take the party back from the inside. That's where the fight will be. I, for one, hope that the good Doctor is sharpening his long-knives now. Howard Dean as DNC chair would be a huge shot in the arm for the party and the party's base.

And some refer to the scream. I see it as a real asset. Everyone knows the why and the how (hot mike). Allow it some time to mellow in the public consciousness and I can actually see it as a proud rallying cry for the Democratic base should Howard become DNC chair. I would love nothing more than to see that scream come screaming back in a positive, but very much "in your face" kind of way.

Take ***that*** media whores!

Yeeeeeaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!

[davidinalameda]

23. are we doing litmus tests to see who is a "Democrat"

and who isn't now?

I don't think that Dean would make a good DNC chair--he's going to a lightening rod for the Repukes

[kentuck]

25. No, we are fighting the litmus tests from Dems like AL From and the DLC

It is not us that are saying who is and who isn't a Democrat. However, we do think our Democratic credentials are as good as anyones - especially Al From and anybody from the DLC.

[Voltaire]

44. Lightning Rod for the Repukes????

No offense, but at this point I really do not CARE what Republicans think. That kind of thinking gets us losing every fucking time.

[Stinky The Clown]

46. Who cares what the Republican party thinks????

We're not asking for their "permission slip", are we? We're looking for a leader of **our** party. Who the fuck cares what they think about our leader?

And "lightening rod" leader would be a good thing, really. Engage them in a years-long debate with a person who's not afraid to talk truth to power. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with showing some fucking passion?

Lightening rod?

Bring it on.

[renaissanceguy]

51. No, he wouldn't be good...he'd be fantastic

Whether you realize it or not, Howard Dean gave Democrats the ability to compete in the 2004 election. He revived the grassroots, changed the way candidates campaign, and gave us hope. He certainly deserves to become the DNC chair because he is a powerful and effective leader. And that's what he need.

I resent how you worry about him being a "lightening rod" for the pugs. How about George Bush, John Ashcroft, Karl Rove, everybody on the other side--they are our nemeses in every way. They don't worry or care about what we think or say about them, so why should we care about what they will say?

If we don't get backbone, we are just giving in to a one-party system that the pugs want. If you agree with their positions, fine, then go join that party. But I will not let anybody take this party further to the right and cause it to self-destruct.

---------------------
Buy liberal and progressive buttons, bumper stickers, and shirts at www.cafepress.com/liberalissues

[lastliberalintexas]

54. You just succinctly summed up the problems

with the Dem party. We are too worried about what the repubs/independents/swing voters will think, so we end up paralyzed and taking no action. we're afraid to stand *for* something, lest we offend those same groups, so we end up standing for nothing.

You could clearly see this in the last campaign, where we ran against Bush, rather than *for* the presidency.

When we finally decide to kick the Go Along to Get Along crowd out of the party (or at least out of party leadership), we just might start winning again. Hopefully that will happen in my lifetime, though I'm not really so sure anymore.

[bemildred]

28. You bet.

Shrub got about 30% of the electorate. Kerry got slghtly less.

An independent Democrat can appeal to the missing 40%, on domestic
issues like jobs, taxes, the debt, and government meddling in our
personal lives, and win in a landslide. He will also have to
refute the fear mongers, because you KNOW they will play that card.
THAT is why they were so anxious to cut Dean off at the pass, and
many others before him.

But I am skeptical at this point that the crisis of legitimacy in
American government will be resolved at the ballot box, I expect it
will have to be resolved in the streets, as in the VietNam period.
Let's just make sure we finish the job this time.

[Zorra]

35. The apparent purpose of the DLC is to neutralize and destroy the

Party. It seems that they may have succeeded.

From and Reed give every indication that they are RW sponsored plants.

Realistically, what choices do we have now? Split the Democratic Party, join the Green Party, or become DLC republicans.

If we split the Party, then there is no opposition to the republicans. It seems that this was the DLC's long term plan.

Now we are fighting regressives on two fronts - republicans on the far right and DLC on the center right.

Interesting essay allegedly written by Subcomandante Marcos:

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3849/marcos_7pieces.html

[Wind Dancer]

40. Bingo!

[chaska]

39. I suspect that the DLC faction will grow even stronger as...

Conservatives leave the Republican party. We gotta do something about this. It doesn't necessarily mean that we have to lose voters by picking a fight with the conservative elements of our party. That is, if we go after the part of our base that has been allowed to leave for the Republican party.

We've got to get the working class and poor back in our party. Otherwise what are we? Think about that. The Dems stand for egalitarian values, that means we are on the side of the havenots. The pugs stand for individualism, which makes for great cowboy movies, but also means they can run roughshod over "the help". They take, we give. That's basic. That's who we are. That should remain sacrosanct.

Remember who you are. And remind others.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Try getting your state DNC representatives to do THIS:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=160x5142

[PATRICK]

43. That is a must read and a must do

before the DNC retreats into their own focus group limbo.

In answer to whether the DLC are plants or something like Nader suggests or RINO's etc. What difference would it make? The end results are pretty much the same and so is the remedy. You don't need a court trial to demand that losers(dedicated to losing) step aside, down, away or into the grave for all that matters.

Where is the f-ing accountability? I see the same angry lefty baiting and finger pointing that they would accuse their critics of, but which more clearly reveals an emotional empathy with the RW thugs at their spiteful, senile, divisive worst. fear and hate mongering. they might as well be paid Bushistas, the conclusions are the same.

They have less than zero credibility. The same can be said of the party and national future with them just squatting there in the ruins. They even LOOK like miserable GOP anti-charismatic stooges. Is that the image we want to present hope to the nation?

Give me a break or give me From.

[Edgewater_Joe]

45. My Answer: Not Right Away

The Democratic Losers' Committee is nothing if not feckless -- if the politicians are working with them because they think they can win elections, they'll leave if they realize they won't.

Therefore, if the DLC picks one of their buds over Dean, I'll be working for DFA and makign sure THEIR candidates kick ass in '06. If they do -- if they win elections, which they already did -- I guaranTEE you that the DLC weenies will slither to Dean and Dean will be given the keys to the DNC.

If I'm wrong, then Dean has the means to set up a real Third Party in '08, complete with not only money but legislators in place (which was one of the big problems with Perot).

Nothing beats winning, and the DLC are losers. Let's play by that principle and watch what happens, and decide in '07 whether we then need to say bye-bye to the Dem Party.

[UpsideDownFlag]

47. howard dean or DLC.....that's a hard choice.nt

[Harlan James]

48. Internal Struggle Makes Us Stronger

Run away and they get stronger.

[CornField]

50. If you love something, set it free

If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was.

That's my feeling toward the DLC at the moment. If they move any further to the right, I won't be able to tag along. Maybe they'll come back to me... maybe they won't. At least I know where I'll be standing.

[mandyky]

52. I even came up with a name for the new Dean Independent Party

Franklinites (after Ben Franklin) or maybe Hamfranks (after Hamilton and Franklin)

[Nordic]

57. I hope you're not serious

both those things sound like snack foods

[mandyky]

68. I was sorta kidding

I saw the bio on History Channel of Franklin the other night, and he sounded so much like a Deaniac.

[robcon]

55. I think the DLC can save the party.

I agree with Beinart in the New Republic, that a strong foreign policy and defense policy, plus the primacy of the war on terrorism will lead to our success in '06 and '08. He describes the far left (Michael Moore, MoveOn and their followers) as the "softs" who are electoral poison for Democrats.

"...At the Democratic convention, Biden said that the "overwhelming obligation of the next president is clear"--to exercise "the full measure of our power" to defeat Islamist totalitarianism.

Had history taken a different course, this new brand of liberalism might have expanded beyond a narrow foreign policy elite. The war in Afghanistan, while unlike Kosovo a war of self-defense, once again brought the Western democracies together against a deeply illiberal foe. Had that war, rather than the war in Iraq, become the defining event of the post-September 11 era, the "re-education" about U.S. power, and about the new totalitarian threat from the Muslim world that had transformed Kerry's advisers, might have trickled down to the party's liberal base, transforming it as well..."


http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041213&amp;amp;s=beinart121304

edit: grammar and spelling and link

[IrateCitizen]

58. Speaking of Beinart and the DLC...

... how's that support for the unnecessary invasion of Iraq going for ya? Hey Will Marshall -- that "Pax Americana" you supported when you signed on to PNAC isn't proving to be quite as easy as you thought, is it?

I actually prefer the analysis of a historian/demographer with a proven track record -- Emmanuel Todd. Todd predicted the coming demise of the USSR in the 1970's at a time when most establishment thinkers were talking of the ascendancy of the Soviet threat. As for the present-day US, he says that we're not engaged in a "War on Terror", for there is no sort of real military campaign. Rather, we are engaged in an ongoing military campaign to preserve and further a global hegemony that no longer exists. It also appears that the rest of the industrialized world realizes this and is either very reluctant or refusing to go along on the fool's errand.

Furthermore, Kevin Phillips has some interesting thoughts on the trajectory of empires in his book Wealth and Democracy. He says that modern-day empires, from the days of the Spanish Armada through the Dutch Trading Empire and the British Empire, have all shared a common trajectory:
1. Rise of a middle class due to an expanding manufacturing base
2. Taking over of resources to maintain this base
3. Selling off of this manufacturing base in favor of speculative finance
4. Diminishing middle class accompanied by a growing gap between the haves and have-nots
5. Involvement in a protracted military engagement that drains the empire of what strength it has left
6. The end of the empire, resulting in a diminished (but more egalitarian) state.

I'll leave it to you to guess what stage of that trajectory we're in.

We're broke, we've got a trade imbalance approaching $500 billion per year, and our military is horribly overstretched. The "American Century" has come to a close. We just haven't gotten the news of it yet.

[Stinky The Clown]

67. Phillips' #6 actually looks pretty good to me, when I think about it .....

6. The end of the empire, resulting in a diminished (but more egalitarian) state.

That's kinda where Europe is now. The major powers there (UK, France, Netherlands, Germany and Spain) were all at one time "superpowers" in their day. They seem now to be much better than we are here. A part of me sorta wishes for this outcome.

Sad, ain't it?

[janx]

61. I heard Bienart's arguments on AAR today.

They were very weak--full of assumptions and fallacious logic. I'd never heard of the guy before, and he sounded somewhat desperate.

[Quill Pen]

65. Islamist totalitarianism = Vietnam

Were Biden's message to become the mission and platform of Democratic candidates, we'd be losers even if we won. Just my opinion, but...

Islamist totalitarianism thrives because its subjects see it as the shortest distance to self-determination. It lacks a defined structure that can be bombed to a crater by "the full measure of our power." The spread of it can only be stopped by addressing the conditions that push people toward its simple and regressive answers: poverty, IMF/World Bank debt, racial and/or ethnic apartheid, and lack of access to education, medical care, and basic needs.

I have a penchant for stating the obvious, so I'll just add this: "collateral damage" (or wholesale murder, depending on who you ask) of the civilian populations of Third World countries tends to leave lots of tiny little civilians with exceptionally vivid memories of "the full measure of our power," who have a good chance of growing up to be Islamic militants.

[Nordic]

56. I am done with the Democratic Party, but I will follow Dean

hopefully to a new party.

The Democratic Party has had their chance, and they failed.

Beating Bush should have been as easy as squashing an ant.

I am done with the Democratic Party as it exists now, unless Howard Dean is able to lead it and CLEAN HOUSE.

[IStriker]

62. I have not made up my mind what I will do...

but I'm finished with just accepting whoever the party comes up with and
just voting for whoever it is. I am absolutely convinced that if this election was rigged, it was rigged when they took Dean down right before the primaries started.

[Cuban_Liberal]

60. Al From can kiss my Cuban ass

It's people like HIM who represent what's WRONG with our party!

[MaroonVette]

64. Cuban or Cuban-American

Are you a citizen and a voter in America?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

66. And this matters... why? (nt)

[MaroonVette]

69. Only that he is able to vote against or for an American candidate

It's hard to have much clout for or against a candidate unless one is a voter in America. In order to vote in America one must be a citizen. That is all I am saying.

[MaroonVette]

63. It depends on how far left the split was

Most democrats are just as leery of the far left as they are of the far right. I suppose if the Marxist territory was not breached then most would follow.

[Bush was AWOL]

72. edited

just sick of the Dean threads.

[Bush was AWOL]

70. If he runs as an independent they will absolutely destroy him

It won't be something I want to see. Dean will be labeled as a bigger flip flopper than Kerry ever was, and by Democrats.

[bemildred]

74. They will damn well try. They will trash anyone not of their own choosing.

But we don't have to let them, and we have four years to get ready.

[Samantha]

73. I already divorced myself from the DLC

I was one of the first people here at DU to start bitterly complaining about it. I did so at the time the DLC started giving Al Gore the cold political shoulder. This was shortly after Gore was in DC telling people he was going to make another run. The DLC polled its membership and 50 percent wanted a "new face." Gore could have definitely taken this election.

I really cannot stand the mentality of those who associate themselves with the DLC. Many of them exhibit the same type of arrogance we see in Bush.*

If Dean departs the party and becomes an independent, I hope he invites Al Gore to "come on over."

The irony of this is that Gore stood with From to announce the formation of this organization at the time of its inception.

[KnowerOfLogic]

75. Time to divorce the DNC, DLC, and the Confederacy. nt