I'm confused. Have we been winning elections or losing elections?

[JVS]

and how can we tell if we've been winning or losing. I see many posts here that claim we won in 2000 and 2004, and others saying that we lost in those years. How can we tell if we've won? Also, if we have in fact been losing, does denial of loss hurt our ability to come to terms with our problems?

[BillZBubb]

1. Good point--there is a lot of denial going on here.

Nobody can say we've won the congress back. That should be our "canary in the coal mine". Moderate Democrats keep getting trounced by right wingers in those races. Heck they had a senile guy win in the Kentucky Senate race and a complete Neanderthal in Oklahoma. Texas lost a number of conservative Democratic representatives to ultra-wingers.

Given the choice between a real Repug and a Repug-lite, the public take the Repug every time.

[Robbien]

2. When the candidate gives up the fight, it is a loss

But the DLCers are trying desperately these days to hold on to the party power and money so they make up their own world.

[JVS]

3. I would suggest that we judge trees by their fruit and say...

winning implies getting office, thus not getting the office implies not winning. Seems the simplest manner to decide

[BurtWorm]

12. One serious problem with 2000.

"Winning and losing" does not accurately portray the anomaly of that "election." To say Bush "won it" or Gore "lost it" is to gloss over the illegitimacy of the process that resulted in Bush's taking the White House. It is not denial to say no one won that election legitimately. It's denial to claim someone did win and not mention the illegitimacy.

This is an important point as far as the historical truth goes. As far as Democratic politics goes, the issue is more complicated, because it probably does not help the party to seem to be stuck on 2000. And yet, 2000 was an injustice and a sign of something seriously wrong with American democracy that has to be fixed rather than swept under the rug. Democrats must not forget 2000, even if they may not be able to fume about it in future campaigns. They can, however, keep the issue of electoral reform near the front of the Democratic agenda. We should be the party that insists on having every vote count.

[zeek]

4. We have certainly been losing

The facts are we have lost in the house, Senate, Governer races, and most convincingly in the local elections across this country.

As far as presidential elections go:

The 2000 election was lost by Gore after the Supreme court ruling. We will never know if he would have had the votes to change the outcome.

The 2004 election will be lost once the electoral votes are cast, despite all the allegations of fraud.

[HEyHEY]

5. Oh shut up you!

You're making us all confus-ed

[JVS]

6. Yay!

[HEyHEY]

7. This is just like when I go to Sears!

[JVS]

8. What do you mean by that?

[HEyHEY]

9. All the cheering and confusion

They love me there....I think it's cause I beat up Bob Vila once during an in-store autograph siging.

He had it coming...nobody talks about my cordless drill like that!

[JVS]

10. Have you been scarce around here lately or is it just me

Anyway I came in tonight and didn't see you and I thought "did that fool get himself banned?"

[HEyHEY]

11. Haven't been around

I've logged about two hours in two and a half weeks. New job+ no computer + getting a life again.

I'm moving in with two hotties at the end of the month though.,...one has a computer...so I'll be back more often. ALthough..I'm digging the whole "life" thing.