Battle over God in U.S. history class

[Kadie]

Battle over God in U.S. history class
Cupertino teacher sues to tell role of Christianity
Joe Garofoli, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, December 8, 2004

Steven Williams wants to teach his fifth-graders at a Cupertino public school all about Christianity's role in America's founding -- an effort that has opened a blue state-red state divide smack in the middle of the blue Bay Area.

Williams, a self-described "orthodox Christian," ran afoul of school administrators -- and several parents of his students at Stevens Creek Elementary School -- when he backed up his contention that religion was central to the Founding Fathers by passing out historical documents to supplement the district-approved curriculum.

Williams complained that state-approved textbooks contain scant mention of how much Christianity meant to early America. So he handed out William Penn's Frame of Government of Pennsylvania, in which Penn wrote, "Government seems to me a part of religion itself, a thing sacred in its institution and end."

Williams also passed out a list of religious clauses in state constitutions such as Delaware's -- which in 1776 required officeholders to "profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son."

Then there was George Washington's prayer journal. And as an example of a modern-day presidential proclamation, Williams distributed President Bush's statement on National Prayer Day 2004, in which he said, "Prayer is an opportunity to praise God for His mighty works."

more...
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/08/MNGPBA8DPL1.DTL

[Maat]

1. This teacher needs to be disciplined.

Per Supreme Court decisions, this is clearly illegal. I'm getting so tired of the Religious Right bullies trying to force their beliefs down our throats.

[Warpy]

4. Disciplined and re eduated

on exactly who the founding fathers were and what they believed.

The earliest settlers may have been sects seeking theocracy in a new world. The men who founded this country as such were creatures of the Enlightenment, predominately Deist and not Christian. Frontier towns may have been socially centered around churches, but they were equally centered around the saloon, an institution that often doubled as the courthouse, voting booth, and business association.

It's really sad that a teacher of history knows so little about history.

[InvisibleBallots]

7. how is this illegal?

He's not preaching religion, he's teaching history.

[Killarney]

8. Revisionist History

The Founding Fathers were not Christians. They wrote the Constitution (without mentioning God or Christianity by the way) to PROTECT us from zealots like this teacher.

Do you think the teacher is including these Founding Father quotes?

Thomas Paine: "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."

John Adams: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

Thomas Jefferson: "The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
and
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

James Madison: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." and
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

[InvisibleBallots]

9. sorry, you're simply wrong

It's not revisionist history. Many of the "Founding Fathers" were not Christians, many of them were. The large majority of the population of settlers were Christians, the majority of state governors were Christians, and in fact being a Christian was a requirement to hold office in some states.

"Do you think the teacher is including these Founding Father quotes?"

Probably not, and he should. Of course, have you ever posted any of the quotes that he did? Both sides want to pretend the other doesn't exist. I say both sides are full of it.

[PurityOfEssence]

17. The Constitution forbids religious affiliation to be a required for office

Be careful when you conflate Colonial and United States history. The Constitution makes it very clear that religion shall not be used as a test for holding office in the Federal Government.

There is a clear history of persecuted sects coming to the new land, but the inference that this is the major motivation for our settlement is simply ridiculous. Jamestown predates Plymouth by thirteen years, and it was a strictly commercial venture. We were founded by people who wanted opportunity more than those on some spiritual bender and the numbers support it.

Fine. Teach the religious reality of our founding; I have no problem with that, but in doing so, it will totally destroy the revisionist tyranny of the stalwarts. This is not a Christian country, and never was. This was not even a particularly religious country at the time of our "Revolution". The government created by our Constitution is specifically and rigorously secular and pledged to logic and the law.

All of these encroachments and the acts of their authors' apologists are nothing more than sanctimonious attempts to cram religion down our throats and distort the reality of human history. It's crap, and it needs to stop.

The best way to strip away the endless lies of fundies and evangelicals is to teach it as it really was; this will show that this country is about business, money, independence and all other sorts of things untouched by superstition. It's not a good history in many ways: we subjugated the natives, slaves, each other and parts of the rest of the world in order to secure our private personal happiness, but we've also provided some great things to ourselves and others along the way.

I believe there are 13 states that currently require a belief in god for office holding; that doesn't mean the country was founded for this or even likes it.

Selective history is as bastardized and dishonest as selective science, and we owe it to ourselves and each other to minimize prejudice in content. This kind of "history" is no more history than "creation science" is science. Most people have prejudices, but they should be subject to review and rebuke in a free society, and I guarantee you that this teacher isn't attempting to be "fair and balanced".

[Trajan]

22. Wasnt it essentially illegal to NOT be christian in that era ? ...

Werent all citizens expected to be christian of come sort .. and those that werent were hectored and harrassed by the holier-than-thous for thier 'sinful' choices ? ...

Werent the first american settlements ruled by theocrats who despised factions other than their own, who promoted misogyny and slavery, who would have NEVER agreed to the rights we now enjoy, but we have thanks to our 'Enlightened' founding fathers ? ...

The first 'americans' from Europe were vicious creedalists whom I am GLAD didnt prevail in the first centuries ....

What a tragedy THAT would have been ....

[Redleg]

13. Tell that to the fundies who want science teachers to cover creationism

in their science courses.

[InvisibleBallots]

15. now, see, THAT would be illegal

I hope everyone can understand the difference. Teaching "creationism" - a religious doctrine, has no place in public schools. Teaching about the facts of religion in early America is history, not a religious doctrine.

[DrWeird]

21. Yeah, but is it the facts?

Sounds like this guy is purposefully distorting the facts in order prosteylitize.

All apologies to the gods of spelling.

[el_gato]

2. His version of christianity in U.S. history versus the reality

he won't be discussing issue like using religion to justify the slaughter of indigenous people here.

[MadHound]

3. Gee, did he pass out the Jeffersonian Bible too?

Or mention the fact that a number of our founding fathers, Washington, Franklin, Madison, and Jefferson amongst other weren't Chritians, they were Deists? Did he mention that the vast majority of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons, a group that was considered distinctly un-Christian at the time?

This man should be fired, he is a poor history teacher, who obviously doesn't know his subject matter, and is teaching with an agenda.

[SaintAnne]

5. I hope he gets fired

he should stick to sunday schools. His kind of "teaching" should not be in public schools.

[AZCat]

6. This has cropped up a lot the past few weeks

Williams' examples of "historical documents" are the usual combination of cherry-picking and documents of dubious origins (Washington's prayer journal, for one). For more info, see these links (provided by Atrios):

See the Forest

Eriposte

The second link has some amazing stuff on the lawsuit itself. Check it out for a more informed view of this vicious tactic used by the right.

[underpants]

10. Kadie!-see Azcat's post and this thread -this "story" is BS!!!

I don't link this because it is MY thread but because of the great information within it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2797901

[AZCat]

11. Yes - I should have added the link to your thread...

It has lots of good info.

Slightly off-topic - I looked for Conason's book yesterday at the used book store in town and they didn't have it. Do you know any progressive on-line booksellers where I can get it? (I like my money to go to the right people)

[underpants]

14. democrats.com?

http://community.democrats.com/store/details.cfm?item=10015

BTW-MArvin Olansky is W's spritual advisor.

[Kadie]

12. Thanks for the link....

I will read all this info when I have a chance. Thanks again!

[seabeyond]

16. selective teaching i am sure. founding fathers quotes

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

- Thomas Jefferson

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

- Thomas Jefferson

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

- John Adams

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.

-James Madison

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

-James Madison

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.

-Thomas Paine

It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it (the Apocalypse), and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814



The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter... But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789

They believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
Patrick Henry has been quoted as saying that, but as to the context, and the source I am not sure.
Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. A Deist according to Webster's is (1) The belief in the existence of a God on purely rational grounds without reliance on revelation or authority; especially in the 17th and 18th centuries. (2) The doctrine that God created the world and its natural laws, but takes no further part in its functioning. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible (The Jefferson Bible), of which I own a copy. It TOTALLY removes all accounts of the divinity of Christ and all of the miracles - including the virgin birth. Benjamin Franklin was raised Episcopalian, but was also a Deist. John Adams was raised a Congregationalist, but later became a Unitarian. Here are what some of the other founders had to say about it.

John Adams:

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

John Adams again:

"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."

Still more John Adams:

“...Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”


Thomas Jefferson:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

Jefferson again:

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

From Jefferson’s biography:
“...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’”

James Madison:

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

James Madison again:

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Thomas Paine:

"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."

Finally, a word from Abraham Lincoln:


The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-- Abraham Lincoln

[cheezus]

18. okay, let's actually tell the role

Washington gives us little in his writings to indicate his personal religious beliefs. As noted by Franklin Steiner in "The Religious Beliefs Of Our Presidents" (1936), Washington commented on sermons only twice. In his writings, he never referred to "Jesus Christ." He attended church rarely, and did not take communion - though Martha did, requiring the family carriage to return back to the church to get her later.

When trying to arrange for workmen in 1784 at Mount Vernon, Washington made clear that he would accept "Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists." Washington wrote Lafayette in 1787, "Being no bigot myself, I am disposed to indulge the professors of Christianity in the church that road to heaven which to them shall seem the most direct, plainest, easiest and least liable to exception."

Clear evidence of his personal theology is lacking, even on his deathbed when he died a "death of civility" without expressions of Christian hope. His failure to document beliefs in conventional dogma, such as a life after death, is a clue that he may not qualify as a conventional Christian. Instead, Washington may be closer to a "warm deist" than a standard Anglican in colonial Virginia.

more... http://www.virginiaplaces.org/religion/religiongw.html

[underpants]

20. God I LOVE DU

Really big guy this place is great!!!

Thanks cheezus

[Trajan]

19. William Penn may be many things ....

But perhaps not an authority on defining divinely inspired governmental systems ...

One can 'pick-and-choose' quotes to support nearly anything ...

[Bridget Burke]

23. The latest poster boy for the "Christianity Under Attack" crew.

USANext (for those who consider AARP too liberal?) has the story & a contact list, so its members can badger the school district.

www.usanext.org/full_story.cfm?article_id=94&category_id=2