May I share a hard reality with my fellow DUers?

[burythehatchet]

Sometimes its helpful to ascend to the 35,000 foot level in order to gain a wide perspective on our current political climate.

If it bothers you that there is no fire or enthusiasm about fraud from the elite Democrats who we all support without fail, if you wonder why even people like Conyers run lukewarm on the issue, if you scratch your head and wonder why, with all the evidence regarding fraud WE common people who keep hope alive, then this may offer an explanation for you.

First consider the fact that the 2000 election was stolen. That being the case, and with Democrats knowing that was the case, why would they let another election be stolen ('02) and then another ('04). If your house gets broken into don't you change the locks and get a burglar alarm?

The reason why this is happening is because the people in power, regardless of party and minority status, want to remain in theor positions. Nothing less. Therefore, we should consider the reality that conservative politicians get their kids to fight and die on foreign soil, liberal politicians get their kids to fight and die on domestic soil. Nothing is going to change until we decide to change it. Our apparent leaders are NOT. You must be your own leader until you hear a voice that you can follow. Thee will be one, but we will give her voice. Howard Dean said something that rang very true. He said that our political startegy cannot flow down from consultants, but up from the grass roots. We have to go and fight a legitimate war, in our own towns.

John Conyers ain't gonna lead us. John Kerry ain't gonna lead us. Hillary ain't gonna lead us. Nobony that you know in politics today is goung to lead. Their bed is too comfortable.

This is not a conspiracy theory, its a reality based perspective.

[Boredtodeath]

1. Can I get an AMEN?

Stop looking for heros and become one.

[ixion]

4. I say AMEN

to that.

[ret5hd]

7. amen.

[calimary]

43. GREAT line - "stop looking for heros and become one."

That one goes into my quotes file.

And yes, you get an "AMEN" from me. Several.

[Boredtodeath]

46. :-)

:blushing:

[eridani]

47. Here, too. That one goes right next to--

--We are the ones we have been waiting for.

[Sugarbleus]

53. Excellent line...

I agree with the OP. It's a harsh reality but it's true. I just heard someone speaking to this (somewhat) a few days ago. This spokesperson made note of the fact that our politicians have become "lifers". In the begining of our government this wasn't suppose to be the way it goes.

The ideal was to send reps to washington for a couple/few years, then REPLACE them so that we have a clear and changing representation of the people's will. Not so today eh? Today we've got politicians in there for decades!! Something else was said about redistricting being a problem as well.

Then I watched C-span all day today. There are sooooooooo many gray beards, long in the tooth politicians conducting OUR BUSINESS. They are slow, they sit up there and blow smoke up each others ass. For the first time, I was shocked to "REALLY SEE" this. They live up there in that rarified air completely out of touch with the everyday citizen across the countryside. It's appalling!

Fresh faces are desperately needed.

[burythehatchet]

54. I think that 95% re-election rate is a core issue to deal with

especially in the House. Senators ought to have longevity, probably.

[jmowreader]

72. The intent was for our lawmakers to die in office

When the Constitution was written, the average life expectancy in England was less than 40 years--George Washington dying at 67 was as great an anomaly as a 110-year-old is today.

What they figured on was you going to Washington as a Congressman at 25, maybe getting promoted to Senator at 30, and dying by 40.

The same thing happens today, but now you go to Washington as a Congressman at 40 and die in office at 90.

[Yupster]

84. disagree jmowreader

Many people lived full long lives back then. The average life span may well have been 40, but that was just because the infant mortality rate was so high.

If a man got to age 10, he was likely to live to 50 or 60 at least, though often with a chronic disease which so many people suffered with back then.

[shadowknows69]

61. so mote it be

an amen from us Liberal Pagans

[chuckrocks]

81. how bout a jesus fucking christ no

ain't no pukes tryin to die.

[quaoar]

2. Indeed

Time to run for office, form a 527, start a blog, etc.

[shadowknows69]

62. make a movie

MM isn't the only one with a camera. I have some of the tools and fancy myself a pretty adept editor. Was once told my style was similar to Moore's as well , which I took as a compliment. anyone who would ever seriously be able to help fund something constructive we could do IM me and lets chat.

[libbygurl]

3. Alas, that's true, and we keep needing to be reminded of it...

...with every election!

[Ripley]

5. Have to agree.

Once again Dean was right. I used to rant like hell that the two parties were very different. And they are sort of on a very few issues. But when it comes down to Farm bills and Pharm bills and wars they are all one big glob of phony lying rich shits who manipulate us every couple of years in order to keep their comfortable lifestyles.

Of course I would exempt a few of them, like DK.

[Xipe Totec]

17. The only farming going on these days is Tax Farming

We're back in the middle ages with princes of industry replacing feudal lords. We are peasants eking out a living in exchange for the safety of scurrying back into the lord's castle when the hoards attack.

Fear is the coin of this realm.

[Ripley]

19. Great analogy xipe.

We're back in the Dark ages. The age of non-reason. The age of superstition. The age of moral absolutism. Of course the religious resurgence is about the ultimate fear. Fear that you won't get to spend eternity walking along the golden path with Jesus, feh, if you don't behave exactly as dictated to you will end up spending eternity in excruciating, ghastly flesh burning hell.

[hippiechick]

6. Let the People's Revolution begin.

Thanks for your post !!!


:hippie:

[yorkiemommie1]

8. very true n/t

[gingergreen]

9. All true

Who, then, will be the leader??

[nascarblue]

can't we consolidate and march on Inauguration day? This time though HUGE

[Jose Diablo]

18. Can I bring a bag of bricks to the march

or must we be oh so polite this time. I don't think 'polite' works anymore.

[gingergreen]

22. politeness is over

how can we be 'polite' to a government that has been nothing but degrading and rude to us??:evilfrown:

[burythehatchet]

23. Quite frankly, on Jan 20 I will be in DC protesting the death of the

republic. Whether or not another soul is there no longer is a factor in my decision to go.

[gingergreen]

25. I'm there

in black

[bones_7672]

42. Oh, there'll be souls there, all dressed in riot gear. n/t

[Jose Diablo]

45. Well, he did say "bring it on" right?

So there is an invitation. I do hope he will be glad we showed-up. I hope he is decked out in his new uniform, he does look spiffy keen.

Are you afraid of making the police angry? Maybe it would be better if some stayed home, safe and comfortable.

[tavalon]

76. Don't worry, there will be plenty of us there

When I first started fishing for people to help set up an inaugural protest, I couldn't find anyone. My mistake? Starting to brew the idea on November 5th. It was too early. Now, many, many groups are up and running with the protest the inauguration meme. It should be at least as big as the anti RNC.

[VivaKerry]

28. but, but, but... the FACT that we are waiting two months to

make this big statement through a huge march is the crux of the problem!!

"We will really show them the People are pissed.... oh, in about 67 days from now...."

The fact that we aren't showing them right now....proves to me that the people will NEVER make the statement that needs to be made. Ugh.

[SammyWinstonJack]

10. Have come to the same conclusion

:-(

[nascarblue]

11. I've been saying this all month...this weekends protests...

..at the state capitols aint going to cut it. We need a HUGE march on Washinton DC> Like a million of us. That would be the only way.

[tavalon]

77. So why doesn't it make sense to do it during the inauguration?

I'm going to this weekend's protest but I'm also going to Washington DC on Jan 20th. I'm also putting up flyers now and I'm highway blogging and I'm.......

[gingergreen]

12. I say we all join....

In Defense of Humanity

South American movement started in support with Chavez.

www.caracas2004.info

also in this thread it is discussed:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


"Chávez calls for the creation of a world defense network"
A call to intellectuals and progressive artists to create a world defense network was made in Caracas by Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez at the inauguration of the In Defense of Humanity World Conference. Chávez offered the Venezuelan capital as the headquarters for such an initiative when addressing some 400 participants from more than 50 countries who responded to the broadbased call from Cuba and Venezuela to take part in this event to find new alternatives in the battle against neoliberal thinking.
What takes places in Latin America over the next few years could have powerful repercussions for the rest of the planet, affirmed the president, according to a report from the Prensa Latina news agency.
He stated that the network of intellectuals could be linked with the project for Standing Congress of the Peoples in order to form a joint response to the challenges currently facing humanity.
In that respect, he specified that throughout the continent the resurgence of a growing force can be seen among the youth, the landless, indigenous peoples and intellectuals. He elaborated on the fact that international problems today do not have national solutions and for that reason there is a need for a world movement.
In October 2003 in Mexico, eminent intellectual Pablo González Casanova suggested the idea of the network for the In Defense of Humanity movement, an idea that was taken up once again in January of this year by artists from Cuba and Venezuela when they conceived the idea of this international conference.
The president of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela spoke yesterday in the Teatro Teresa Carreño during the official opening ceremony of the In Defense of Humanity world conference of artists and intellectuals that ends on December 5 after debating 10 subjects.
Cuba is represented at the event by 30 artists, led by Culture Minister Abel Prieto. (AIN).
:bounce:

[nascarblue]

14. You know that Venezeula is next to be overthrown dont you?

Bush has his eye on Hugo. He will be outed or assasinated. And he's a truly democratically elected president.

[gingergreen]

16. Yes exactly

That's why we need to build solidarity with him and their cause.

[VivaKerry]

27. All the more REASON to stand up and be counted IN Venez!

Are we supposed to say, "Oh, Venez is next on the chopping block; better write them off." Excuse me, that's the POINT of standing up in the first place,,... to hedge bush off at the pass, man.

[gingergreen]

29. THANK YOU!!!

My thoughts exactly :hippie:

[VivaKerry]

30. YOUR WELCOME!!! (Hey, give that DU link again....)

the one discussing the In Defense of Humanity stuff...

The link in your original post doesn't go anywhere. Missing some more fo the link in it or something....

I have been saying "Oh Canada...." but now I am singing "O Venezuela!" :-)

[gingergreen]

31. Surely...

This is the homepage:

http://www.caracas2004.info

And this is the DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1041164

[Selatius]

63. Chavez is a hero to the poor down there, but I fear he is going to die

His enemies have already showed that they are capable of resorting to violence to destroy a democratic government. I have no doubt in my mind that they could easily decide to do it again and turn Hugo into just another fallen hero. We know all too well what it's like to have our champions snuffed out.

[burythehatchet]

70. sad but true

I am completely ignorant of Venezuelan politics but Chavez seems to be a guy I can respect in the context of leadership. I guess that's why he will probably meet the same fate as Sen Wellstone.

[chuckrocks]

80. oh come on

i belive in restructure as much as the next, but to say a man is going to die... its extreme. these guys are bad, but they ain't this type o' bad. and thats supa bad.

[searchingforlight]

13. I concur. We are being led around by the nose and don't even feel it.

I read an article deriding Dean as a candidate for DNC leader and one of the reasons was the "Dean scream". Perhaps we should adopt the Dean scream as a rallying call to change.

Also, why hasn't anyone nominated DK as DNC leader? He is already at where we want to go.

[eridani]

48. Dennis is committed to being in Congress for a couple of years--

--Dean has the time to make DNC chair a real fulltime job.

[Voltaire]

15. Hallelujah!!!!!

From your mouth to the People's ears!!! It is long past time to get busy. Besides, they can't shoot us all can they?

[Doctor_J]

20. True, but remember that the main problem

is the media. The bushies' control over the mass media is complete. There is NO ONE in the MSM that speaks like a real Dem. So whatever progress we make has to be made within that constraint. In order to take back the bible belt, which should be a Dem stronghold, we have to confront and deal with the fact that these people's view of the world in entirely filtered through hate radio.

[VivaKerry]

32. The media issue is moot if we do what the original post suggests...

See.... you don't need newspapers or radio to tell you that the PEOPLE are marching in your neighborhood square or center. Cause the PEOPLE took the fight to right at your doorstep.

Across the US... we take the fight to our neighbors, our cities, our parks, our schools, etc. etc. DEMANDING change,... encouraging others to speak out. You won't need the media.

[BeFree]

21. Power comes first

Everybody protects their own little kingdom. Very few are free enough to use their power to enable and empower others.

Meanwhile our democratic republic suffers since the people are relegated to becoming mere subjects, numbers, statistics.
Our representatives don't represent us, they represent their own positions meant to retain their power.

The only power we as a people have is our vote, but since our vote is so easily altered, our power is severely diminished.

[burythehatchet]

26. Desperate times indeed. Another test for the indomitable human spirit

I have a lot of hope.

[Misunderestimator]

24. I agree... it's how I've felt for the past month...

Before that, I had some expectations that things might go differently. Somehow we need to makes those beds of theirs less comfortable.

[burythehatchet]

34. "...for the past month"

I wonder if our Democratic elected officials know how so much energy and motivation was lost because we "believe" in them to do the right thing. God I feel so "had'

[Misunderestimator]

35. Yes, It has felt like a tremendous deflation...

I know I will get back the energy and motivation, because there's no other choice. I just don't know where I'll be channeling it this time. (And, yeah... I feel a little had myself.)

[tavalon]

78. It was a big blow to the effort

but most of us are back on our feet and fighting as hard as ever.

[leesa]

33. Exactly. They are all millionaires and they are totally into Bush's agenda

They wanted Iraq invaded. They wanted Patriot Act 1 and 2 passed. They WANT the voter fraud.

There are a handful of heroes, Kucinich, Waxman, etc. I would say that ALL of the Senate is fully corrupt though.

[Jose Diablo]

36. Actually, I think the Senate should be millionaires

The model is parliamentary for Congress, the Senate would be the lords. but the House, should be the people. The whole thing is messed-up with that DLC and its corporate money.

Or maybe its messed-up because the vote fraud has been going on for a very long time, at least since Reagan. How else could the country have gone so far to the right? Do we all have millionaire neighbors, those that should be Republican? Are we all millionaires?

Many people still do not vote. They don't think their voting makes a difference. We know now, that it doesn't. We have had Optiscan and booths for a very long time, far longer than Diebold and ES&S. Vote fraud is not new, it is just that recently the 'art' of fraud has been fine tuned.

All this crap around the world with we, the USA, stealing resouces for corporations like some imperial colonial power, it would not have been possible without vote fraud at home and the media of course. This is not the America I thought we were. We the people never condoned what has been happening for the last 55 years. So how have they managed to do it with impunity? The lying thieving ba*tards.

Something stinks in Denmark.

[burythehatchet]

68. I myself am an immigrant

I came here at the age of 10. It took until 1980 and Reagan's election for me to realize that maybe this America thing is not at all like its been sold around the world. (This is the point where someone would say, "well go back"). Little by little, year by year, new truths continue to emerge and the gap between my childhood perceptions and reality becomes wider.

[bluedonkey]

83. I'm an immigrant,too

Came here 25 years ago.I think the hardest thing for me,after the 2000 election,was to accept the reality that the America I thought I was living in,was a dream.It must be harder still for the 'real Americans' to accept that most of what they were taught to believe is not real.
But accepting this will be a new beginning.For WE,the People, can make the dream reality for all Americans and Immigrants,if we work together and throw out the scum that spoiled the dreams.
I'm not going anywhere,I want my son and future grandchildren to live that dream.

[crimnos]

37. This is why I think alternative parties are more important than ever.

Hopefully this will open people's eyes and we will see the rise of a coherent third party that can challenge the status quo. If all the pieces fall into place, it could be a historical turning point. I just keep hoping, and lending my support where-ever I can.

[Boredtodeath]

38. kick n/t

.

[slackmaster]

39. Add three promint California Dems to the list of people who will not lead

Senators Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer, and Representative Nancy Pelosi.

Nobony that you know in politics today is goung to lead. Their bed is too comfortable.

I'm not a religious person but that qualifies for a great big AMEN!

:argh:

[elehhhhna]

40. kick

[burythehatchet]

41. its like the old saying

you don't hunt when you're not hungry

[HEAVYHEART]

44. Excellent post.

I needed that. Thank you.

[B Calm]

49. If there are any democratic politicians out there reading this thread

I hope you realize by not fighting the cons on this vote fraud, you are giving the voters a reason not to vote in the next election.

[Cookie wookie]

50. Yeah. And if they think we'll forget

they'd better wake up. This time they have no excuse. None whatsoever. We will not forgive or forget. We will fight against them just as long and hard as we fought for them. We've been betrayed. God help me, I never thought I'd be even entertaining this thought, but maybe Nader was right all along. After all, who is standing up for our votes right now -- Nader and Cobb and members of the Congressional Black Caucus. What a disgrace, a stain on the current "residents" of the Democratic party, with the exception of those few who have fought with us.

Dean is the man I plan to follow now. He wants to rebuild the party from the ground up and that sounds like the only way we're going to save our democracy. We need to throw out every bum who has tried to play both sides and in the process has almost brought the whole country to destruction. Hopefully there is still time to save it, but we are so close to the edge it's hard to know.

Oh yeah, today I heard on the news that Pelosi may support the president's social security plan. There were some if this and if thats, but it was too much to bear to hear that. They are playing the same old roll me over in the clover and do it again.

[Cookie wookie]

51. Burythehatchet, you put it out there plain and straight.

Why is it that some of us (me) just didn't get it til now? I should have gotten it after they gave up the 2000 election. I should have gotten it after they gave up the 2002 election. Like you say, the Democrats had to have known those elections were stolen. Now Kerry gives lip service to fighting for our votes (ambiguous lip service at that), but as far as I can see, isn't bothering to lift more than his voice, and that in a whisper.

About like * saying he's getting the troops their armor. Right. Prove it--that's all I say. Talk is cheap. Let's see Kerry walk like he talks. I want to see him in Ohio. I want to see him filing for recounts in other states. I want to see him on television saying "We're not going to let this happen again. This time we're fighting for the American people and for our country.

I'm still listening. I can't hear you.

Deafening silence.

[burythehatchet]

56. I wouldn't shoulder too much blame

remember that we have been conditioned all our lives to receive the words from the idiot box as though they were true. We were not told that the free press (main stream media) has been practically extinct for quite some time. The mere fact that hundreds of thousands of people are awakening from our slumbering skepticism is a great stride in the right direction.

[Hippo_Tron]

52. I think that we do have some decent human beings in our party

The problem is that they aren't the ones volunteering to stand up and lead. Seriously, if Russ Feingold ran for president in 2008, I bet that a good chunk of DU would be out there campaigning for a guy that they know truly represents their interests.

[burythehatchet]

55. No doubt about it

guys like Dk and Feingold, and the late Sen Wellstone definitely are decent human beings. But in most instances they will invariably take a low-risk approach, favoring incrementalism to committment to principle. The incrmental approach is great when the majority of lawmakers have a common interest as a goal. That element though, has disappeared.

As an analogy, I suckled on the corporate teat for 23 years. All the while I knew it was not "who I was" but the fat paychecks became as addictive as a bad crack habit. It has taken a lot of family disapproval and painful choices to abandon that world and enter into another that resonates more with my belief system. I'm no hero but if a guy like Feingold stepped out and took risks, he would be a hero. I often wonder if Cheney had Wellstone killed because Paul was going to go for it. Its a nice fantasy, but like we seem to agree its time to move to reality while keeping a clear vision.

[Hippo_Tron]

58. Wellstone would've been a great presidential candidate

The REAL thing that would've stopped him was his recently being diagnosed Multiple Sclerosis. The TV series The West Wing deals with a president who suffers from MS and didn't inform the public before running for president because he was worried that it would not get him elected. When the story breaks it is their equivalent of Monica Lewinsky. Of course the president is re-elected in a landslide and everything ends up just great.

Unfortunately, this isn't TV, and having MS is a big deal.

Now I look to a similar man of great courage as well and possibly greater political ability and that is Russ Feingold. The thing we have to remember about Russ Feingold is that he won his first re-election campaign with NO soft money when soft money was legal. Feingold votes how he feels and not what is popular on almost every issue. People from both parties respect it, and it shows by the fact that he got the votes of many people who voted for Bush as well.

Feingold has one fatal flaw however, he has too much integrity. What I wonder is, if he does decide to run for president, will he be willing to use the dirty attack ads that are unfortunately a necessity in today's political world. Of course maybe I'm not enough of a true believer and maybe Russ can pull it off with a positive campaign, only time will tell. But if he or one of my other favorite senators Durbin or Boxer for example were to run in the primary in 2008 I would be 100% behind them.

But nonetheless, Feingold and Wellstone would/would've both made very good and unlike DK very credible candidates. DK unfortunately hasn't shown much ability to win in politics, his district is liberal enough. Wellstone and Feingold have both won very tough senate races. Not to bash DK or anything, cause I really do like the guy, but unfortunately his political standing just isn't good enough to be competative in a presidential primary. NOW, here's the thing. If DK were to win a US Senate race in Ohio, I GUARANTEE that democrats would start listening to what he has to say.

BTW I have a question about your statements about your former corporate job, in that basically, what was it?

Personally, I have no problem with people making money, I intend to make a lot of it when I get older. My philosophy is basically that we need a system where EVERYBODY has the opportunity to get ahead that wants to and nobody is denied basic necessities like healthcare, decent housing, and a good education for their children.

But again I see no problem making money off of the capitalist system, especially since I also plan to be an activist and use that money to help change the system for the better.

[burythehatchet]

71. Lot to chew on

but let me comment on a couple of your points.
I believe that when we give a voice to a leader that emerges, there will be no need for attack ads. My theory is that you need to attack your opponent when you're similar to him. You have to drive up his negatives in order to look better in comparison. A vision based on truth has no need for attack ads.
My corporate job was as a consultant in the Insurance/ Risk Management business. You know all the shit that Eliot Spitzer is going after? That was the crap I saw and could not stomach anymore.
I have no problem making money either. But I do have a problem when my making money is based on lies and improper business dealings.

Talk about taking risks, Spitzer sure has been putting a lot on the line.

[Hippo_Tron]

75. Okay yea, I wouldn't personally get involved in anything unethical

In that case, quitting your job, while it took some guts, was probably for the best.

[Cleita]

57. Your essay is why I am no longer a Democrat of the same

club you are pissed off with. I still hang around with the likes of Barbara Boxer and other left wing women who will be the persons who save our country I believe. But I am definitely backing away and looking at what is going on from a distance so I can see the whole much better.

[The Judged]

59. But the Republican Revolution is based on Americans being without purpose!

[proudbluestater]

60. Maybe our leaders are waiting

for US to rise up off our dead asses and take to the streets to show that we really give a crap about the situation?

It is OUR votes that are being misused, stolen, discarded. It may be up to US to make sure it doesn't happen anymore!

[Stand and Fight]

67. Contradictory Statement You Make

Were our leaders to lead they would do just that. Leadership is about tapping into the will of the people and influencing them to act in cases where they normally would not. It is up to our so-called "leadership" to rouse the people. The people are a collective body without head -- but they've plenty of untapped heart.

[burythehatchet]

69. Let me be very blunt

Once we shed a drop of blood on the street, anyone who was waiting for us to rise will continue to remain on the sidelines. The time for a political calculus is long gone. AS long as those leaders who might be waiting can wait in the luxury of their mansions, fuck 'em. No, really, fuck'em.

[sangh0]

64. I approve of this OP

Well said. There's no vast conspiracy that everyone is in on. It's just some people have too good a life to risk it all for us

[deutsey]

65. "The masters make the rules for the wisemen and the fools"

Those who are the masters (both Democratic and Republican) aren't about to allow themselves to lose their power over the rest of us.

[Solly Mack]

66. the status quo is powerfully intoxicating

it's addictive.. and few who gain them a seat relinquish it gladly...no matter the cost to the people.

[Karenina]

73. Hear, Hear!!

Prosit, Solly! :toast:

[Solly Mack]

74. Hey you!

:)

[Pepperbelly]

79. Wrong!

"...conservative politicians get their kids to fight and die on foreign soil..."

Conservative pols DO NOT get THEIR kids to fight and die ANYWHERE.

[burythehatchet]

82. HAH. Excellent catch!

Very accurate and astute observation.