have any of you 'fuck the south' people actually been to the south?

[UpsideDownFlag]

there's a lot of good democrats down there, honest, lower middle class blue collar workers. Try and be a little less quick to want to fuck the entire south.

[Sandpiper]

1. Lived there for 11 years

My feelings about the region come from personal experience.

On Edit: I don't hate the south. I just find it backward in a lot of ways.

[bemildred]

4. Lived and worked in Virginia.

They (in the South) are rather bigoted in their attitudes towards
the "left coast" and other places too. Nevertheless, I will gladly
concede there are many fine people that live in the "red states".

[donheld]

238. Lets make a list of well known southerners - please add to at

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2814611

[johnnie]

2. I don't say "fuck the south" but..

I have been in a few places down south a few times and I was made aware that I was a "yankee" every time I went there. I learned to keep my mouth shut as much as possible when I go there now.

[NuttyFluffers]

151. i don't say 'fuck the south' either, but...

i've been there, still have a 1/2 of my family there, and visited several states there. the reputation is earned, unfortunately, for the most part, for anti-intellectualism and deep bigotry. are there exceptions? of course, there are exceptions everywhere. but if one were to talk about "problem areas" in america most states in the south would feel their ears burning.

no, they earned a lot of the resentment they bring up. sorry, but true. the good folk of the south need to teach those 'bad neighbors' or kick them the hell out, not let them take over the PTA and rewrite the curricula, or farm out the last of the jobs over a few backroom land deals to 'big box' retailers.

[Name removed]

204. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[two gun sid]

253. I agree

I lived there. Most of my family still lives there. Don't see or talk to them anymore as I'm a union man/democrat/atheist so they always treat me like I'm some kinda monster. Wait a minute! Now that I think of it fuck the south.

[Name removed]

260. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

278. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalitch]

3. probably don't know anyone from the south either....

those jesus people don't scare me.... I'll bet jesus would be pretty turned off by them too

[Solly Mack]

5. Born there. Raised there. Left there 12 years ago

Sure, it has good people. ....but it's overall climate is rather stifling.

[patomime]

6. Born here, grew up here ...

and have been and will remain a life-long democrat.

Yeeeeeeepeeeee!:bounce: :bounce: :kick: :kick:

[forgethell]

7. I'm a Southerner;

and I find anti-South bigotry to be just as despicable as ant other kind.

[wantedtohelp]

33. Do you not call a spade a spade?

Texas, for instance, isn't exactly the most progressive place in the country.

[forgethell]

45. Yes, I do call a spade a spade.

But I can disagree with various blacks, women, gays, etc. without bashing either their race, sex, or orientation, and South-bashing is the same kind of bigotry.

I can even do it without attacking them personally. Keep your discussions in the realm of ideas, not personalities is my motto.

Spady enough for you?

Merry Christmas :-)

[LondonReign2]

72. Ummm, no

Being black, gay, or a woman is not choice. Being a black-hating, gay-hating, woman-hating, foreigner-hating southerner is. (And sure, those traits are not restricted to folks down here, but they sure are acceptable).

Two years in Texas and can't wait to get out of this hell hole.

[forgethell]

171. Here's the bigotry

Being a black-hating, gay-hating, woman-hating, foreigner-hating southerner is.

Without the word "southerner" this is a perfectly valid sentiment. Being black-hating, etc. is never acceptable. But including the "southerner" smears all of us. This is judging the group, not the individual. This is bigotry, pure & simple.

MERRY CHRISTMAS:toast:

[Ms_Mary]

184. Exactly. I'm a southerner and I'm sick of that generalization.

[Texasgal]

191. HEAR! HEAR!

Damn sick of it too!

Don't bite the voting hand that may feed you one day! :)

[tx_dem41]

175. As is being a....

black-hating, gay-hating, woman-hating, foreigner-hating northerner. Believe me, I've met several.

Oh, as is being a black-hating, gay-hating, woman-hating, foreigner-hating Canadian, European, Latin-American, Pacific-Islander, etc, etc, etc.

Umm, I think you get the point.

[datasuspect]

244. you're right

i grew up in chicago and it is still one of the most segregated cities in the u.s.

[ChemEng]

236. Amazing...

I've lived here all my life, and I sure as hell don't think of it as a hellhole. I love my state, my people, my heritage. We are not all black hating, gay hating, and for damn sure not woman hating!

[vpigrad]

8. I live here...

and I feel that way about the south. I don't know that many people, but I know five repukes. That's five too many, and I want to get out of here. I've been looking for a job in or near Madison, Wisconsin for the past couple of years, but I haven't found one yet.

[surfermaw]

136. Lived in N.C for more than fifty years, and REpukes are the thing I dislik

Lived in Georgia for untill I was twenty, of course that was when Georgia was a solid state..democratic of course. North carolina is filled with ignorant pig headed republicans.

[clutchcargo]

208. ignorant pig land

NC VOTED 48 PERCENT FOR KERRY EDWARDS AND WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EXCEPT FOR EDWARDS ON THE TICKET------CLUTCH CARGO

[UdoKier]

9. I'm a native Texan, and I wrote a thread saying...

"I HATE HATE HATE Texas" That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of great people and things there. Same goes for the south (though some areas are downright SCARY)

[bvar22]

40. Ever been to Fresno?

[UdoKier]

56. Central valley, yes. Fresno, no.

Any worse than El Centro?

[TheFarseer]

100. The legal system in TX is the joke of the entire world

because of stupid assholes trying to be the next Tom Delay, that have to take advantage of any situation to try and be tougher than the next guy.

[Walt Starr]

10. Did my Basic Training in Georgia

Been to Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and Flordia.

I don't particularly care for Georgia (it's that Basic Training thing I bet), though I could easily choose to live in North Carolina or Virginia. Tennessee is beautiful, too!

I wouldn't even consider living in Alabama.

[quaoar]

80. Alabama is a pretty good place to live

Except it's raining like hell here today.

[Walt Starr]

166. I vacationed in Gulf Shores once

I would never even consider living in Alabama. I despise the state.

[forgethell]

206. And, yet, there are

people, me, for instance, that love the state, and its people, despite some of their non-progressive attitudes.

Don't worry, though, Alabama does not need you,either.

MERRY CHRISTMAS :silly:

[Walt Starr]

254. My problem with Alabama isn't the people

My problem with Alabama was the fact that I vacationed at Gulf Shores. I really really really despised looking at the oil platforms every day. Reminded me too much of Wyoming.

[President Kerry]

237. when you think you hate

Alabama, think Forrest Gump. btw, I've never been anywhere south, so i'll withhold opinion on AL myself.

[bowens43]

11. Yes, I live there.

I don't think any of us want to fuck the entire south, just then right wing nut jobs who live here.

[cheezus]

12. how about this instead:

fuck the confederacy?

[UpsideDownFlag]

14. that, i can live with. nt

[MemphisTiger]

26. Right on they lost

[arcane1]

30. PERFECT

:toast:

[TwentyFive]

13. I hate Texas.

I am a yankee from New England. I went to college in Texas, and I encountered much prejudice after entering the workfoce. I watched less qualified people get hired or promoted over me. The problem is....southerners are so 'nice'....you don't notice they've stabbed you in the back until you see your blood dripping on the sidewalk.

I was broke for about 5 years before I could afford to get the hell out and move to California.

[eyepaddle]

15. Lived In Louisiana for a couple of years,

It just seemed longer (ba-doo-tum-tshhh!) (That's a comic rimshot by the way.)

It just got on my nerves constantly being told how great the South was by people who had never been anywhere else. Plus I definitely got sick of that "Yankee" bullshit, I'm not ashamed of where I'm from but the general attitude seemed to be that I should be.

Granted I was offshore on oilrigs and that's a pretty crusty batch of dudes, so that probably didn't help.

New Orleans, however is a fantastic place--sometimes you gotta watch your step or shit can go wrong in a hurry, but it always seemed at least willing to give everybody a shot, no matter how the off the wall they were. I liked that.

[opstachuck]

55. over 70% of new orleans voted for kerry.

makes me proud to call it home (although i enjoy living in new york so much more). it's too bad the economy sucks and the crime rate is horrible. still, it's a unique place with alot to offer. the rest of the south i'm pretty indifferent towards, except austin - maybe the best place to live in the south.

[LondonReign2]

73. Exactly right

Texas is filled with Texas who have never set foot outside of Texas, but insist its the greatest place ever. Ignorant assholes.

[Starlight]

153. LOL, sounds like North Dakota.

People there insist it's the best place on Earth, but that's because they've never been out of the county where they were born. :eyes:

[JanMichael]

16. 7th generation North Carolinian here

Still live here; some of the rednecks down here get on my last nerve.

I am so embarrassed by what goes on in this state so badly sometimes---yesterday my husband had to listen to a woman say the slang word for African American (Can't even type it---so freaking ugly)---

But, at least we are addressing it; I lived in the Stealth Racist Northwest (yes...Portland) and those people deny their racism, or turn into apologists---I would rather have it right in my face and deal with it, than to live in a lily white place and listen to the denial crap-

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UpsideDownFlag]

18. i see you took that picture yourself?

oh wait, you got it from a thirty year old movie.:eyes:

[Ian David]

29. Southern History: A tribute in Film

(Damn, look what you people did to Jordi LeForge!)

















Yes, it is about time we fuck the south

[Doctor_J]

62. ...snark...

look at the electoral map, and tell me why we should consider the South to be worthy of our love. If Southerners believe the lies put out by Limpballs and his ilk, and Falwell and his, and insist on trying to ban condoms and sex ed and evolution from their society, then they are ignorant and the people in the North are worse for having to share things with them

[kcwayne]

183. You forgot the classic "Cool Hand Luke"

and Val Kilmer's "The man who broke 1000 chains" was pretty good as well.

[Athletic Grrl]

275. also forgot Deliverance

eom

[Solly Mack]

23. Agreed. I rather it was in my face and out in the open than

just knowing the folks I just met, smiled in my face,then ran off behind a closed door to "discuss minorities"

[datasuspect]

137. "southern hospitality"

more like a very polite meanness.

[Solly Mack]

169. That's "politing" someone to death more than southern hospitality

"politing" a person is being intentionally overly-polite and it's motive is anything but kind. It's purpose is to mark the person as different while making them feel they are the center of the universe. It's used on people you'd rather not be around...

BUT it's NOT a race based tactic. "Politing" is a class based tactic at it's origin. It rose within the wealthy class in America, and was a defensive weapon within the Plantation class of the South. But you saw it in other places as well. Edith Wharton describes it beautifully in "Age of Innocence." The ways the lines of class are drawn. Politing is just one tactic used.

When you have no choice about contact with someone you find unsavory, and circumstances won't allow you to speak your mind (work, place of worship, funerals, weddings, and "because it was just plain unthinkable to cause a scene")... you polite them to death.

Stealth racism mimicks "politing" in that a white person acts as if they give a damn about minorities and are always ultra polite to them but then discusses them later in terms of "Those people,If they would only,The biggest problem they have is"....and the underlying cause is always racism.

Stealth racism is always polite..which is why it mimicks "politing"....but while politing is not race based...stealth racism is nothing but race based.

Now, anyone getting polited to death would get discussed as well...but in terms of how ill-bred they were or behaved.

You can find those people who use stealth racism in and out of the south. Though in the south they don't have anyone fooled.

Their public face is brotherly love...their private face is anything but


Now,southern hospitality can contain an element of politing...but not always. It can also contain stealth racism...but not always.

Depends on the person extending the hospitality in these day and age.

I don't imagine the southerners at DU would extend anything but true hospitality.

[datasuspect]

172. true

and in the south it is more class-oriented than anything. i live in rural se texas and have been exposed to pretty much three basic divisions: the "genteel class," "poor white trash," and "other" (which includes mostly black people).

the genteel people are the ones that have an overwhelming sense of disdain for practically anyone outside their network or circle. they are the "polite" ones who have a plantation mentality. these people pride themselves mostly on their church affiliations and they constitute the "good old boy network." financial success in many parts of the south is often predicated upon successful penetration/infiltration of this network. it certainly requires church affiliation. an outsider can expect to spend 5 - 10 years of effort to really fit in.

the working class and poor (what the more genteel people consider "white trash") are often very genuine, caring people in that they have an innate sense of fairplay and are really good bullshit detectors (true with most working class/poor populations). often misguided where it concerns race issues/patriotism/economics/political issues, but still good people.

the "other" people are largely ignored, in poverty, in jail, or otherwise a practically "untouchable" class. generational poverty is the most troubling aspect of this class. although i have found that small town ghettoes are infinitely nicer than inner city ghettoes and many people can have a good quality of life with relatively little money.

[itzamirakul]

200. Your post leads me to believe that ...

the "poor white trash" who are "misguided" about race should deserve sympathy, understanding and acceptance. Isn't it about time that they became "guided?" Besides being poor and white, are they stupid, also? Otherwise, what causes them to be "misguided" about race?

Your characterization of the "others" who are primarily black as being in poverty or in jail, neglects to mention that far more whites in the south receive welfare than do blacks as is the case all over the U.S.

You fail to mention any blacks that might be professionals or in business. I find your characterization to be racist without perhaps your realizing it yourself.

[datasuspect]

215. well,

you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and i don't know if you've ever left NYC (i gleaned that you at least live there?), but i would encourage you to spend some time here down in the "dirty south." especially in rural locations.

the best and brightest of all races end up leaving here. i mentioned nothing about welfare and i apologize for not having the foresight to be all-encompassing in my post.

maybe one of these years i might write up a full dissertation related to this topic, but for the purposes of an internet discussion board post, i really did try to be as precise as i could.

[itzamirakul]

239. As I mention in a later post in this thread...

yes, I have visited the south. My longest visit was a week in Noonan, Georgia in 1957. Can't get much more rural than that. Complete with Jim Crow, segregation, hate-filled eyes on white folks, and discourteous-bordering-on-vicious treatment of African Americans. And from what I understand, not much of that has changed in the intervening 40+ years. Perhaps that is why so many people say, "Fcuk the South."

If you do write a dissertation, I hope that you will include the fact that today,in 2004, private, white Christian schools are teaching their impressionable young students that slavery was ordained in the Bible and that it was really not so bad for the slaves who shared a "mutual respect" with their "patriarchal" white owners and who lived a life of "simple pleasures." Thus, we have much of today's southern mindset.

For those whites who do not agree with this racist behavior, then I fault them for not having the guts to stand up to their racist neighbors instead of just looking the other way and excusing this behavior as "misguided." How many generations does it take to become "guided?" To ignore and excuse this ignorance is to aid and abet it.

[Boosterman]

207. That was an excellent post

Very good breakdown of both Tn and the parts of Ms that I have lived in. Little less (but not much) emphasis on the Church IMO. IMO we lose a big chunk of the middle class worker types here when it seems like we are catering to special interest groups. I realize this is spin from the right but that was the most common complaint I heard. I was a bartender for 15 years in the South.

[itzamirakul]

240. What is a "special interest group?"

I thought we were all Americans.

[Boosterman]

274. It would be nice

Its truly amazing the things people will say to a bartender when they are drunk. Many working class people though feel neglected. Blacks, hispanics, and whites all shared a similiar sentiment when it came to politics...that the other two groups got too much attention. That the democrats payed too much attention to gays etc. Basically anything that wasnt in THEIR interest.

On a side note I worked at a fine dining bar. All upper middle class to rich people. I knew millionaires who were having affairs. Names dates, locations....its a good thing for them I am a nice law abiding sort. Not prone to blackmail or such. A little word to the wise, the bartender isnt usually acually your friend. Certainly not someone you should trust with intimate secrets. I have never seen anyone be blackmailed but I have seen secrets get out qith a quickness.

[NoSheep]

67. The triangle area of NC is a wonderful place to live. I grew up in NC

and have lived in the triangle for more than 20 yrs. We are educated, diverse, etc. Most of the south is not like this, but look at the NC map to see where all the dems are. We are a pocket inside of NC. I have also found NC to be much less racist than VA, SC, GA, ALA, MISS, etc.We didn't get too much of the civil war down here. I'm afraid in rural areas, except for Chatham and Orange Counties, the old Dems have been swayed by the repukes. But we aren't all bad. We do what we can. AND we have feelings. I say: Fuck the Conservatives WHEREVER they may be. Not only in the south. That'd be like me saying all midwesterners are boring as hell!!!!:+

[Seldona]

276. Bingo!

I was born in the north, and lived in the south for about 7 years.

I actually have met more racism in the north, but it was the stealth kind.

The kind that takes an application with a smile, and then tosses it in the garbage a minute later.

I will admit that I had no idea going in that alot of southern people feel the way they do about the civil war and such.

But I have to say that after I was there for a short time I found a great group of people that would give you the shirt off thier backs when you needed it.

I guess I am of the opinion that there is equal parts racism, sexism, etc, wherever you go.

It simply manifests itself in far different ways.

I guess the south gets the bad rap because the bad ones are so vocal.

Up here that shit does not get discussed except by 'the boys' after they have had a few.

NEVER in the open.

No, we cannot write the south off.

Without them we will never win another national election.

And the shitter of it is our party has so much more to offer southerners.

Time for us to get off our asses is more like it.

[DrWeird]

19. Yeah, I have.

Thought it was a fucking dump to be quite honest with you.

[UpsideDownFlag]

21. where'd you go?

I lived in Vicksburg, for a while, which was ok, but not too great honestly- my main point was that dems are all over in the south. also, there's great progressive cities like New Orleans, Memphis, and to a lesser extent, Nashville- LOTS of blue in nashville.

[DrWeird]

25. Baton Rouge.

Then a road trip to Tallahasee. I realize I may have just seen the armpit of the South. I'm just saying what I saw was a fucking dump.

[Pastiche423]

20. Was born in N.C.

Graduated from HS in N.C.

Fled to the left coast as soon as I could.

Returned to Charlotte decades later.

Once again fled to the left coast as soon as I could.

The intolerance of anyone different than their white bread selves was more than I could take.

I will never return.

[Sandpiper]

31. Fellow North Carolina Escapee here!

Moved from very blue St. Louis, to very red Western North Carolina and was stuck there for 11 years.

Putting it in my rearview mirror and heading for the west coast was a very happy day for me.

[JanMichael]

35. So, then to escape the Charlotte NC racists

you moved to lily white Oregon????

89% whitest city ever??

Oh yeah...it's because the African Americans don't want to live there.

I forgot.

Sorry.

[Sandpiper]

39. At least Oregon never sent Jesse Helms to the U.S. Senate

You know, the guy who said that UNC stood for "University of N*gger lovers and Communists."

[JanMichael]

43. Yep...at least you all didn't do that

and at least Oregon finally took the grandfather clauses about selling houses to "whites only" out of their real estate laws in the late '90's.

I think.

Last black church burning I remember was in Oregon. Last town I was in in the US with no black people in sight was Oregon.

But, hey....at least you don't have Jesse Helms! Goooo Oregon!

[Sandpiper]

46. Yes, I'm from Oregon

That's why I have a California flag as my avatar.

But hey, don't let that get in the way of your apologia for the south.

After all, it's Oregon that's the real hotbed for bigotry in America.

[JanMichael]

79. You cannot find a post of mine that apologizes for

the South. Past or present.

But, I find many of yours that apologize and rationalize the racism you SEE and ignore every day.

Please.

[DrWeird]

57. Yes, Oregon voted to remove grandfather clauses

after somebody pointed out we still have them, much to our surprise. Alabama, on the other hand, voted to keep them in.

"Last black church burning I remember was in Oregon"

Maybe. But when some nut in Oregon burns down a black church we don't make him our senator.

[JanMichael]

58. Which NC Senator burned a black church?

?

[DrWeird]

63. I don't know. Which ones?

you can't deny the South has sent plenty of racists to Washington. I'm sure a few of them have been to klan rallies.

[JanMichael]

66. Oh, I agree with that; you just seemed so very sure of yourself

that I thought you were privy to information I didn't have.

[mitchum]

154. But they did send the closeted Mark Hatfield while his party was...

laying the groundwork for their "ant-degenerate" agenda. And Hatfield never said a word.

[0rganism]

211. As far as republicans go, Hatfield was one of the better ones

Not quite a Chafee, but no Helms either. Hatfield was one of a very few senators who opposed the Vietnam war from the start, and he was a moderate on many issues -- which helped offset the stigma of industry whore Bob Packwood.

[clutchcargo]

210. JESSE HELMS COMMENT

I DESPISE JESSE HELMS BUT THAT IS A MADE UP REMARK----HE NEVER SAID THAT---- HE IS BAD ENOUGH WITHOUT MAKING UP THINGS ABOUT HIM TO MAKE A POINT---CLUTCH CARGO

[Pastiche423]

44. Damn straight I wanted to escape the Charlotte N.C. racists!

But it was more than that.

When I moved back in 1996, I was dealt a severe cultural shock. A time machine had taken me back thirty years. No progress had been made in how minorites were treated. No progress had been made in tolerance of people w/different faiths (non-faiths). No progress had been made in classes. No progress had been made, period!

Btw, I don't understand how you can state that Oregon is lilly white. Especially when my next door neighbor is black, members of the activist organizations I belong to are black. One organization specifically, Human Rights Activist's number one concern is racial tolerance!

You have big issues, girl.

[JanMichael]

47. I have big issues....uh huh

check the demographics--then tell me about how Oregon is NOT lily white.

The numbers say it all-

On edit: just out of curiousity, how can you tell from my post that I have "big issues?"

I am so ashamed of America's school system, public and private--your comment about my "issues" are the reason why.

I am really curious--respond by PM if you want to.

[Sandpiper]

48. Which state was blue again?

I keep forgetting.

[Sandpiper]

51. Here you go, a recent news story from racially progressive North Carolina

School defends slavery booklet
Critic says text is 'window dressing'

By T. KEUNG HUI, Staff Writer

Students at one of the area's largest Christian schools are reading a controversial booklet that critics say whitewashes Southern slavery with its view that slaves lived "a life of plenty, of simple pleasures."

Leaders at Cary Christian School say they are not condoning slavery by using "Southern Slavery, As It Was," a booklet that attempts to provide a biblical justification for slavery and asserts that slaves weren't treated as badly as people think.

<snip>

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1913619p-8258411c.html

[JanMichael]

60. And I'll counter with this!

But, before you read something decent about NC; go to a small town in Oregon....say....Baker City. Count the blacks. Now, go to a comparable sized town in NC...say, Shelby. Count the blacks. No demographics...just look around you.

That's not too freaking hard to figure out, now is it.

Here's a great article for you to read about Charlotte, while you are knocking yourself out being an apologist for another geographical area:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1365/is_12_34/ai_n6146708/pg_3

Charlotte was #6 in the Black Enterprise (I know, you don't recognize that magazine...no use selling it in Oregon) for cities for black families. Enjoy the reading!

Stephanie

[Sterling]

94. I think the white people in Oregon are better than those in NC

That's all this tells me. The white people who live in your state next to you don't think you are equal to them while the whitey in Oregon that has never met you respects that you have the same rights as him. It must really be hard living in an area where a large amount of people consider you subhuman. Assuming the "you" is a black person.

[JanMichael]

120. Sterling, I thought the answer about Oregons racist laws

of the 1850's that I posted was bad.

But, not as bad as the shit you just came up with.

Where in the hell did that come from? Blacks are treated just as badly in Oregon as they are in NC. Pull your head out of your behind. Go look at the slums in OR---take a good look.

Tell me how happy and cheerful they look; poverty and racism suck EVERYWHERE.

[Nimble_Idea]

144. I really think some people are stupid

but I won't say who.

Having no black population is not evidence of racism. The south has a large black population down there for a reason. and the RACISM that goes on in this nation is going on in the south because , GUESS WHAT, that's where the blacks are. I always talk to blacks and they tell me they don't want to live up in the cold states.(Go Vermont!)

So get off your horse dude.

NC is the KKK center of the world and DU'ers who try to whitewash NC are just.......well, I'll leave it up to the obvious.

[Thtwudbeme]

168. Please, please find a post of mine where I

tried to "whitewash" (ummm cute) what goes on in NC.

I hate the rednecks here; my point was that people in other areas have a blind eye to what is going on under their noses. Looks like you do too, ummmmm dude.

Stephanie

[Pastiche423]

59. Actually

is wasn't just this post that revealed your issues. This post cemented them irt Oregon.

I have worked w/Oregonians all up and down the state from Bandon to Portland. We are from all races, ethnicities, abled and disabled and genders.

Ergo, I know Oregon is not lilly white.

But then, I am not surprised that a Charlottean (how many generations?) would project something that fits their on backyard more precisely.

[JanMichael]

61. You must have worked hard up and down the coast!

Hey! Let's have some fun! Wanna look at Demographic numbers AGAIN?

Do you think you'll get them this time?

Or are you going to be satisfied with being a cliched apologist?

[JanMichael]

69. Let's just COUNT blacks in NC and OR!

Let's have some serious fun courtesy of the Census Bureau! You ready, kids and racist apologists from the great White? I mean, the Northwest???

Blacks in NC: 21.6%

Blacks in OR: 1.6%

Here's your link sugarplums! Enjoy the fun!

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/37000.html

BTW---I NEVER said the South wasn't racist; I wrote that the redneck sons of bitches got on my last nerves...but, so do people enjoying the lily white areas they "ran" to...claiming to be liberals...what the hell ever.

[Pastiche423]

92. What do demographics

have to do w/racism?

I believe you have the two confused.

[DrWeird]

101. Hey, by that logic Sweden must be a white supremacist camp.

The reason Oregon has a small percentage of african americans has got to do with historical migrations. Now, we don't really want to bring up history, do we?

[JanMichael]

105. Do we want to bring up history?

Yep! We do! We all know the history of slavery and the South, I assume...so--let's take a good look at Oregon's racial history. Oh! Funny you should mention that, because it just so happens that I found a website that documents the historical racism there fairly well! Let me find the link for you! Read on, Dr.Weird, you might just be surprised:

http://www.ciurlionis.net/varis/library/dixie.htm#Changing%20Portland's%20History%20of%20Discrimination

[DrWeird]

106. Why ignore the South?

They were the Nazi Germany of the 19th century. And unlike modern Germans, they can't admit it. Shit, they still celebrate it. They still fly the swastika, I mean Confederate battle flag all over the place.

[JanMichael]

109. I have NEVER argued that the South isn't chock full of redneck

jackasses; I have never apologized for this area. My family owned slaves; we suck. Got that? We SUCK.

Now, let's take a look at the place you claim is so freaking wonderful.

Take a good look around...do you really truly want to kid yourself that Oregon is populated with lovely white folks that are just dying to populate the state with people that are racially diverse. Shit, you guys can't even stand it when white Californians move up there.

[DrWeird]

113. Well, let's see. My wife's black. My kids will be half black.

I'm typing this in an office I share with two guys from the PRC. And it's sure a hell of a lot better than the time I spent in the south.

"My family owned slaves; we suck. Got that? We SUCK"

Well, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

[JanMichael]

117. If the first step to recovering is that,

then are we going to wait for your announcement?

Dude I don't care if YOU are black; that does not excuse Oregonian racism.

We live in a small town in NC; about 1/2 of my husbands co-workers are blacks--and most of them are women in pretty decent positions. Does that excuse NC?

Please. Spare me.

[DrWeird]

119. At the worst, the lesser of two evils. By far.

There's racists. And it seems they're coming from the south, on account of them waving the swastika, I mean confederate flag. There's occasionally a hate crime. But like I was saying. Real Oregonians find that kind of thing outrageous and throw them in prison, instead of electing them to office. Racism isn't ingrained in our culture like it is in the white south.

Frankly, you sound like a German complaining about how antisemitic the US was back in the thirties.

[JanMichael]

122. oh. "real" oregonians vs what?

Sorry, I lost my Peterson Field Guide to Oregonians.

Maybe you can help me out here?

Look, have a good night; your posts are ridiculous....you are living in white heaven...of course you don't feel racist...there isn't much to feel racist about out there, now is there.

[DrWeird]

126. Neoconfederates. Displaced southerners. That kind of thing.

"...there isn't much to feel racist about out there, now is there."

So, basically, you're saying the South has a lot to be racist about. I see.

[JanMichael]

131. Ummmm you just told me in an above post

that Oregon wasn't a state until when?

Now, again...slowly this time, OK? Who are your "real" Oregonians? How many generations before you qualify someone as "real?"

The South has an extremely volatile history; your last comment begs for a historical explanation, but you are exhausting; you don't read, you don't comprehend, and I doubt you care.

[carolinayellowdog]

121. Who do you mean by "they"?

My Southern white ancestors fought for the Union as did the vast majority of black Southerners who fought. All in all 40% of the slave states' population opposed the Confederacy. Your rhetoric is hateful, scapegoating, stereotyping. Virtually all black Southerners and half the whites see the Confederate flag as a symbol of shame. I have lived in the South all my 50 years and cannot think of a single place I could find a Confederate flag flying anywhere in NC or VA.

[UpsideDownFlag]

150. *sigh*. it just doesn't matter. we're backwards rednecks. period.

:hurts:

[UpsideDownFlag]

149. Dr. Weird...

i understand, and agree with you, that the south is full of confederates and rednecks. the only point -the ONLY point- of my OP was to point out that it is also chock full of decent, hard working democrats.

can we agree on this?

[Ron Green]

104. Um....I think there are more black people in the South because that's

where they were brought on slave ships. It's only been a hundred and fifty years since they were the agricultural machinery in the cotton, rice and indigo fields. It's only natural that there are many more black folks there than in newly-settled Oregon. I just know that, as one who has lived in both the South and in "lily white Oregon," I find the people here to be more tolerant and tolerable.

[JanMichael]

107. Ding! Wrong answer! Black people weren't ALLOWED there

You know, Oregon people really piss me off with this shit; you guys are so busy slamming the South for racism while sitting in your lily white state that you don't even bother to learn the history of where you are.

Here's your quote and your link to it:

The Revised Code of Indiana stated in 1862 that "Negroes and mulattos are not allowed to come into the state"; forbade the consummation of legal contracts with "Negroes and mulattos"; imposed a $500 fine on anyone who employed a black person; forbade interracial marriage; and forbade blacks from testifying in court against white persons.

Illinois-the "land of Lincoln"-added almost identical restrictions in 1848, as did Oregon in 1857. Most Northern states in the 1860s did not permit immigration by blacks or, if they did, required them to post a $1,000 bond that would be confiscated if they behaved "improperly."

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/14th_amendment_not_ratified.htm

[DrWeird]

116. You're right, they weren't allowed to.

But it wasn't because of some frontier law. It was because the people in the South wouldn't let them leave.

[JanMichael]

118. oh. my. god

you didn't even bother to read the link.

Whatever...good to see you tonight. Best regards.

[DrWeird]

125. Sure I did.

What you failed to mention is that in 1857 Oregon had just become a state and of the 10,000 or so people who voted that year plenty were settlers from the south, and the law was put in place in order to support the South.

[JanMichael]

130. Are you just completely out of it?

excuse me? Those laws were NORMAL...in several states; how does your explanation cover those midwest states? Your reasoning makes NO sense whatsoever.

[DrWeird]

134. It was a frontier state in the mid 19th century.

There wasn't really white voters born in Oregon in 1857, they were all carbetbaggers, if you will, and the race was on to get more slave states.

"Your reasoning makes NO sense whatsoever."

Hey, you're the one who's arguing that Oregon's racist because it has a high percentage of white people.

[JanMichael]

146. This is Michael: I think she's arguing that Oregonians won't admit how...

...Racist their neck of the woods is and yet they (I believe here at DU?)love laying heaps of shit on the "South". Claiming to be some bastion of tolerance when in fact it's really no better than many other places. Maybe even worse BECAUSE of that intentional blind eye. Yet there is always much sound and fury in protest when it's pointed out to them. Its Racism is hidden either because the Forest is too close or they simply don't want to acknowledge the Trees.

It's a matter of Hypocrisy.

I personally don't have a special attachment to any specific piece of geography. She does and so do some of the arguers on this thread. So I probably should've stayed quiet.

I'm off to bed now, I'm sure she'll correct me tomorrow morning.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

110. Whoa, Stephanie, I agree that there's covert racism in Oregon and an

ugly history of overt racism, but could it be that NC has more black people than Oregon because NC had slavery and Oregon didn't?

You'll find that most Northern states have smaller black populations than Southern states simply because they never had vast numbers of slaves.

[JanMichael]

115. Or could it be because blacks weren't allowed there?

Could it be because Oregon has a history of racist nastiness that is pretty fugly, but that the Bliss Ninnies out there are so busy bashing the South that they can't see what a forest of white they live in. Worse yet...they don't ask WHY.

Sorry, I get mad at the Southern bashers. Oregonians need to remove the log from their eye first-

[carolinayellowdog]

102. Charlotte is not NC

so don't generalize; the Triangle is as cosmopolitan and educated as anywhere in the US

[JanMichael]

111. Agreed. I posted an article about Charlotte

because it was a good one. I am not generalizing. Specifically, I am comparing Portland, OR to Charlotte, NC. Guess which one has a national reputation for racism? Guess which one is more racist?

Interesting, eh?

I don't think there are any towns in Oregon comparable to the Triangle area; Salem, Eugene and Corvallis can't really compare---

[carolinayellowdog]

123. I was replying to Pastiche

who attributed Charlotte's atmosphere to the entire state

[Pastiche423]

138. Pardon me?

I did no such thing!

Your reading comprehension sucks.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. c'mon i think you can see why the north is a little but upset now...

i dont think anyone really means, fuck the south...but for gods sakes we are a bit emotionally overwrought after this dreadful election.


let things settle down a bit and i am sure we will want the south to see that they are voting against their best interests.

also this election was very personal for some of us...and to think we may have lost it cos of bigotry (anti-gay rights movement) makes people even more emotional and angry

[UpsideDownFlag]

24. i agree, but what bothered me was that people acted

like there were no dems in the south. it's full of them, has been for generations.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. i think again its just a matter of time

adn we will stop with the red-state hating.

[pnb]

199. The anti-southern bigotry existed here long before the election

To use it as an excuse for it now doesn't cut it. I've been here for over a year and watched it the entire time.

[lukasahero]

27. I've never said it but

I'm one of those "Massachusetts liberals" so I'm curious as to why we should be willing to take the name-calling and be admonished when what goes around comes around. Perhaps both sides could stop with the demonization of the other. You go first. ;)

[Ian David]

36. You don't "reconcile" with your abusers

Fuck the south. Fuck the Republicans. Fuck them because they are our abusers, not someone that needs understanding and compassion.

Oh, please.

See:
The Politics of Victimization, By Mel Gilles


Watch Dan Rather apologize for not getting his facts straight, humiliated before the eyes of America, voluntarily undermining his credibility and career of over thirty years. Observe Donna Brazille squirm as she is ridiculed by Bay Buchanan, and pronounced irrelevant and nearly non-existent. Listen as Donna and Nancy Pelosi and Senator Charles Schumer take to the airwaves saying that they have to go back to the drawing board and learn from their mistakes and try to be better, more likable, more appealing, have a stronger message, speak to morality. Watch them awkwardly quote the bible, trying to speak the new language of America. Surf the blogs, and read the comments of dismayed, discombobulated, confused individuals trying to figure out what they did wrong. Hear the cacophony of voices, crying out, “Why did they beat me?”

And then ask anyone who has ever worked in a domestic violence shelter if they have heard this before.

They will tell you, every single day.

The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

<snip>

Even if you do everything right, they’ll hit you anyway. Look at the poor souls who voted for this nonsense. They are working for six dollars an hour if they are working at all, their children are dying overseas and suffering from lack of health care and a depleted environment and a shoddy education. And they don’t even know they are being hit.

the rest:
http://mathewgross.com/blog/archives/001041.html


Fuck the south. Fuck the Republicans. Stay mad, and tell them we're not going to take it anymore.

They fought a war over the right to keep their slaves, they rioted to defend segregation, and now a bunch of Southern "Democrats" whine that they're powerless and we should be nice to them. I've seen what a southern "Democrat" is like, and Zell Miller gave quite a performance at the Repugnican National Convention.

You can keep your Dixicrats to yourselves, if that's what you've got.

Fuck The South.

And let's start by ENDING THE FEDERAL DISASTER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM!

Call it an "intervention."

They hate us for our freedom.

And they can cry me a fucking river and then lay in wait for Burt Reynolds to come paddling his canoe down it.

Fuck them.

[UpsideDownFlag]

37. did you even read my original post?

"there's a lot of good democrats down there, honest, lower middle class blue collar workers. Try and be a little less quick to want to fuck the entire south."


can you appreciate the difference between hating republicans and painting the entire south as horrid?

[lukasahero]

41. Why are you posting this

in response to my post?

[UpsideDownFlag]

52. fuck the south and fuck the republicans dont have to mean the same thing

by saying the entire south, you are slandering lots of loyal southern dems.

[Arkana]

178. I hear that...

I'm a Bay Stater as well, and I've listened to Dumbya trash us over and over like a recreational sport. I guess it's a big slap in the face that we lead the country in "family values", but I'm damn tired of redneck Bushbot Southerners hating us and us not being allowed to dislike them.

[wantedtohelp]

32. Lived in the south all my life

They are right. Not much more to say.

[xultar]

34. OMFG WTF, I live in the south also. We aren't talking about you...

We are talking about the knuckle dragging W04 voters.

[Done]

38. It’s not the south, it’s urban vs. rural.

Rural areas went heavily for Bush across the country. Okay, okay, so the south is mostly rural. The democrats have got a problem in rural areas, and we can discuss why this is and what to do about it.
The rocky mountain west is heavily rural and went for Bush in both 2000 and 2004, but why is there no hostility directed at them? Even rural areas in the blue states went for Bush.

The 'fuck the south' attitude is a form of bigotry.

[LondonReign2]

77. No, bigotry is

...when you are biased based on no evidence or actions. "Fuck the South" is based on the very actions that the collective south takes, i.e., by being black hating, gay hating, woman hating, foreigner hating, hyper religious assholes.

And if you are not one of the above, then "Fuck the South" does not apply to you, even if you live in the south.

[tx_dem41]

176. How many Northern states....

have passed bans on gay marriage so far? You might just be surprised. So I guess, f'em too.

[Kitka]

42. No shit. My southern uncle is the local Dem organizer

and works his ass off for very little money to try to keep Dems alive. It pisses me off to see people like him written off.

[UpsideDownFlag]

49. that's my exact point, and that's what people who say things like #36

dont understand. it is plain old wrong to write off and entire region, and assume you dont have any allies there.

[indigobusiness]

50. It's about "fuck bigotry"...

Not "fuck the south".

[UpsideDownFlag]

53. that's fine, i'd much rather hear it called that. nt

[indigobusiness]

54. Me, too.

Clarity is important.

[Ms_Mary]

186. Then say that. For God's sake, we're trying here! The south is not

evil it just has a large number of misguided people. I'm working on it. :cry:

[indigobusiness]

202. That

was my point.

[mistertrickster]

64. Yup, Texas--god they suck

Everything except for the Mexican culture just sucks, arrogant ignorant and arrogant ABOUT THEIR IGNORANCE, just like Bush.

(Shivers uncomfortably.)

Any chance they still want to seceed, and that we could let them?

[bvar22]

68. If Molly Ivans, Jim Hightower, Ann Richards, and

Bill Moyers abandon Texas, then I will also. Until they leave, I'm interested in what some Texans are doing right!

[mistertrickster]

70. Oh right, and there is Austin and the great newspaper they've got there.

Okay, I concede. They don't ALL suck.

[indigobusiness]

161. There are a lot of Texans that despise that too.

There are many extraordinarily fine people in Texas. Your characterization is apt to only a percentage. But, there are some belicose assholes in Texas, I'll give you that. Most folks would give you the shirt off their back.

[sadiesworld]

65. It's just one more division to be exploited by the corporate media elite.

One more way to distract us as our country is raped, pillaged and carved up to be sold off to the highest bidders.

These RW hate spewers don't care anymore about their red/blue construct than they do about race, sexual orientation or reproductive rights. Without the corporate money behind them these idiots would be relegated to begging for donations on some cheesy cable religious program.

The more perilous the economic news becomes, the more they will ratchet up the hate. And very few (on either side) will look behind the curtain.

Corporate facism requires scapegoats. Always.

[QC]

147. And many DUers are eagerly gobbling up that corporate propaganda

and regurgitating it endlessly, all the while congratulating themselves on how much smarter and independent they are than the "sheeple."

[UpsideDownFlag]

182. "congratulating themselves on how much smarter and independent they are"

yep. i suspect that's pretty much what it is.

[Chovexani]

71. Yes. I even have family down there.

One side of the family is from Jesusland Virginia and the other is from Jesusland S.C. I fucking hate it down there. There might be a lot of good Democrats down there but I hate having to sift through all the ignorant ass rednecks.

Fuck the South.

On Edit: Just so you know I'm not unfairly biased, fuck Upstate New York, it's just as backwards and filled with Jesus freaks as any place down South. They hate NYC yet live off our tax money. Fuck them too.

[bvar22]

74. I'm no Deaniac, but this is what the Dr. says about the South.

The following was excerpted from a speech by Howard Dean 12/08/04

Let me tell you what my plan for this Party is:

We're going to win in Mississippi
...and Alabama
...and Idaho
...and South Carolina.

<snip>

Our challenge today is not to re-hash what has happened, but to look forward, to make the Democratic Party a 50-state party again, and, most importantly, to win.

To win the White House and a majority in Congress, yes. But also to do the real work that will make these victories possible -- to put Democratic ideas and Democratic candidates in every office -- whether it be Secretary of State, supervisor of elections, county commissioner or school board member.

<snip>

I have seen all the doomsday predictions that the Democratic Party could shrink to become a regional Party. A Party of the Northeast and the Pacific Northwest.

We cannot be a Party that seeks the presidency by running an 18-state campaign. We cannot be a party that cedes a single state, a single District, a single precinct, nor should we cede a single voter.

<snip>

There are no red states or blue states, just American states. And if we can compete at all levels and in the most conservative parts of the country, we can win ... at any level and anywhere.

People will vote for Democratic candidates in Texas, and Alabama, and Utah if we knock on their door, introduce ourselves, and tell them what we believe.

Unifiers = winners
Dividers = whiners
bigotry = ignorance


I am surprised by the blatant bigotry on this thread.

[RedEarth]

76. "I am surprised by the blatant bigotry on this thread."

The bigorty certainly has raised it's ugly head since the election.....really tragic. BTW, I couldn't agree more with what the good Dr. says about the South.

[QC]

148. I wish I could still be surprised by blatant bigotry at DU,

but it's far too routine for that. For many people, the opportunity to display their bigotry in public seems to be their sole reason for coming here.

[UpsideDownFlag]

152. this is my favorite post in this thread.

says it perfectly. 'american states'.

[carolinayellowdog]

75. Why in the world did you call out the hatespewers?

and why the hell did I read their predictable hateful bs?
and why do the mods allow threads like this to exist?

[RedEarth]

78. It baffles me also....

The hate that has been exhibited over the last month is unbelievable.....the democrats being a "big tent" only seems to apply if you live in a blue state.

[bvar22]

81. I live in one of the bluest of blue states,

but when I saw a precinct map, I was horrorified to notice that the suburbs were all red!

Then again, I've ALWAYS hated the suburbs.

I'm thinking of starting a Hate the RED Suburban Bigots thread.

[RedEarth]

87. lol....that's a great idea, we need one more group to hate

here at DU..too damn much love...:crazy:

[mitchum]

155. I always call them "rednecks in polo shirts"...

the RED Suburban Bigots
And I also hate them :)

[UpsideDownFlag]

86. i made it so that they would have to recognize that their posts

ARE hateful BS.

[RedEarth]

90. It certainly is apparent by some of their posts....

It has given me the chance to add to my ignore list, since after reading some of their posts I certainly don't have any interest in reading anything else they post.

[rhyfeddu]

114. THANK YOU (and RedEarth) for all your posts on this thread...

...My family is Appalachian, and I feel insulted on a daily basis here at DU :(

The anti-rural feeling here is frightening to me. I feel so unwelcome here, and cringe everytime (and its often) "inbred, toothless, 'Deliverence'" crap is slung around here...it seems so unthinking, so accepted. It startled me, at first, now its just a dull pain.

I thought I'd found a "safe" place to be liberal. But I don't know if I can wade thru the shite to get to the gold nuggets, anymore...

:cry:

And, YES, where are the moderators? Why does this crap "not count"?

[carolinayellowdog]

127. Don't know; I've alerted repeatedly

and we are just fair game

[UpsideDownFlag]

129. it gets pretty old, eh?

hence my OP. I just wanted to say it, short and sweet.

[rhyfeddu]

133. Old. And moldy.

But not like the good cheese. :P

Thanks for trying, anyways.

Maybe we need a rural anti-defamation league or something? ;)

[sadinred]

82. I think if any of us went to visit

old farmers up in Maine or old timers in Vermont or in New York state they are a lot like the southerns that call northerns Yankees. Same old thinking. It's rural thinking. Go to Atlanta or Miami or other urban areas in the south and the thinking is probably more like northern urban thought.
Many more people live in rural areas in the south, and many more live in urban areas up north.

Or am I just grasping at straws? Am I just a city snob?

[SaintLouisBlues]

124. No straw grasping, you nailed it.

45% of Shrub's vote came from blue states. Rural and suburban vs. urban.

[gjb]

224. Not only nailed it but there was a book published about the subject ...

co-written by Theodor Adorn called the Authoritarian Personality. One of the chapters investigates the relationship between education and authoritarian beliefs.

In a case study the authors interviewed a pair of identical twins who were orphaned and separated at birth. One grew up on a farm and had a limited education. The other in the city and went to University.

The farmer had what the authors called "passive authoritarian tendencies" ie. a deference to authoritarian figures, suspicion of foreigners, conservative social values, and an intolerance to apposing views. The city raised,

University educated twin was the opposite. He was open minded, conceptually flexible and cosmopolitan.

The weird thing is that authors photographed the twins side by side and they didn't look like identical twins even though they were.

The study was commissioned UCLA in order to understand the social causes of Fascism. I'm not sure who published it but you can search for it under Theodor Adorno and by book title.

[carolinayellowdog]

83. Why focus on the regional level, rather than local or national?

Anyone who hates "the South" for being "red" (50-odd percent, in most cases) by the same logic ought to hate all America for being "red."
The hatemongers obviously need a single, easy target for their aggression more than they need to understand the complexity of the world they are living in. It's a logical fallacy called "misplaced concreteness"-- imagining that there is such a thing as "the South" or "America" that is unitary and has characteristics that apply to each individual therein.

" defined it as 'neglecting the degree of abstraction involved when an actual entity is considered merely so far as it exemplifies certain categories of thought' (1929, p.11). More generally it is the fallacy invloved whenever thinkers forget the degree of abstraction involved in thought and draw unwarranted conclusions about concrete actuality."
(Daly & Cobb, 1990, p.36)

OTOH anyone who acknowledges that states and localities vary within regions ought to recognize that my 65% blue NC county is no more deserving of blame for Bush than any 65% blue northern or western city. The vast majority of the counties of New York and California are just as red as most of the South-- it's mainly the highly populated coastal regions that are blue. Look at a red/blue map *by county* and you'll see that a larger proportion of NC is blue *geographically* than most states that actually went blue overall. Unfortunately, our blue counties are less densely populated than the red ones by and large. STILL, the largest urban county, Mecklenburg, gave its votes to Kerry by a small margin. Durham and Orange were in the 65-70 percent blue range.

Apart from all other obnoxious manifestations of hate, what's with the implicit misogyny and homophobia of the "f--k the " construction? Obviously, s/he who gets f--ked is deserving of disdain-- is that what y'all are implying?

[Ian David]

96. Damn you, Carolinayellowdog. I hate when you're right :(

Ok, so maybe I shouldn't be so gung-ho to fuck the south.

Maybe we should just squeeze their nipples really hard until they get the point.

[jarab]

84. Are there laws against one being a bigot?

I don't think it's a crime, and I don't believe there's anyone who can prevent one from being a bigot.
I actually think the bigots are some - in this thread even - who point their fingers toward the south. And if the word "bigot" doesn't apply, I'm sure there's another unkind description for this type.
Those so-called bigots in the south are saying "fuck those MA liberals" - and many on this site have reiterated the same.
I say fuck a bunch of finger-pointiung "liberals", which should be an oxymoron.
If I were a liberal, I'd be ashamed of threads like this - and I include the OP which brings up a useless argument again.
(Yes, I'm in and from the south, and it's no big deal.)

...O...

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

89. Love the Southerner, Fuck The South

Look, I am not saying I hate all Southerners.

Even though most of the people in Mississippi voted to keep segregation on the books, and don't give me that BS about people being afraid it would raise their taxes. At best, they were afraid their taxes would pay for black children to go to school.

Even though 40% of the people in Mississippi voted to try and keep inter-racial marriage in a year 2000 ballot initiative.

Even though every southern state that has had the chance has passed anti-gay ballot initiatives when they've had the chance.

I would estimate that only 40% of Southerners are ignorant swampwater drinkers.

And it would not be fair of me to pre-judge ALL of them based on the fact that slightly less than half are the first in their family to walk upright.

I am very willing to judge each individual southerner on the merits of their character.

HOWEVER...

As a political entity, the state governments of the south are an absolute disgrace and make us look ridiculous to the rest of the world.

So when I say, "Fuck The South," I mean Fuck the southern STATES, not the southern PEOPLE.

If you happen to live there and not be glue-sniffing booger-eater, then it is unfortunate for you, and you have my sympathy.

And you have to admit, the people running your state need a good fucking. And we can't do that unless we fuck the south.

[bvar22]

99. Our Federal Government. is....

"...an absolute disgrace and make(s) us look ridiculous to the rest of the world." Are you taking a Fuck the USA position?
If you are, that's OK.
...just trying to find some consistency in your rationalizations.

You said:
"And you have to admit, the people running your state need a good fucking. And we can't do that unless we fuck the south."

Your position is absurd. I "must admit" nothing in your staterment. In fact, I must distance myself from such tortured logic.

Positions advocating regional bigotry are indefensible.

[ArkDem]

201. You got that backward.

[Democracy Died 2004]

88. I dont hate the south

just the crackers that live there.

[LittleClarkie]

91. I was born and spent the first 10 years of my life in Norfolk VA

Which went Blue this year by 60%.

I do not say "fuck the South." We didn't, and likely still don't, have a monopoly on ignorance (though I must say that the Norfolk School System sucked swamp water through a straw).

[Sterling]

93. Born and bred.

They don't say the south will rise again for nothin. It cannot be easy not being a Bushbot down there. I feel your pain.

[chaska]

95. I was born, raised and lived most of my life there.

Recognize that if someone isn't talking to you directly then maybe that person is not talking about you. And don't take it personally.
Most of the derogatory stuff said about the South has some basis of truth. But it ain't about you.

[alfredo]

97. Yes, born there, live there and I

still say, fuck the south.

[Selatius]

98. Mississippi resident here

No, I don't feel offended when people say, "Fuck the south!" Why should I feel bad? I'm not the one who sucks.

When it comes to social issues, I'm a libertarian. For instance, I don't care what gays do with their lives; it's NOT MY LIFE, so it's NONE OF MY BUSINESS. (Any lurking feepers here reading this?) When it comes to economic issues, I'm a solid leftist. I am not an authoritarian socialist. I am a democratic socialist. I don't believe social safety nets are bad, and I don't believe common sense mechanisms and valves are a bad idea to protect markets from its own excesses and abuses.

I go to college here in Mississippi, and I've been here for 10 years now since my family moved here. There are some good folks around here, but overall, the social environment is fairly oppressive; there are many who are not open to change and many others who are misinformed or willfully ignorant. Then again, I assume it's the same in any rural part of the country. It's just an issue of ignorance and fear of change.

[carolinayellowdog]

103. VA/NC cities among the least segregated in the US

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1997/vp970129/01290498.htm

whereas the most segregated are in the Northeast and Midwest

[Ian David]

Christian school says being a slave was fun and Biblicly Correct!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1420410#1420432

[UpsideDownFlag]

139. i noticed you never responded to my other posts directed towards you

in this thread? would you like to try now?

for instance, is it impossible for you to acknowledge that saying 'fuck republicans' and 'fuck the south' arent necessarily the same thing?

secondly, did you actually read my OP? all i said was that there were a lot of good, honest, hard working dems all throughout the south. If you going to completely lambast people, at least have the gumption to respond to criticism.

[Iris]

108. There are some honest middle and upper class democrats here, too.

n/t

[UpsideDownFlag]

142. well, right. but the democratic party is supposed to represent the

working class. and it's hypocritical to bash them.

[Swamp Rat]

112. And a lot of lizards too.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

132. NC southerner here

sure i disagree and feel alienated by a lot of people when it comes politics, but in day to day life people are courteous and polite. usually pretty easy going and receptive.

the "south" is not out to get you. some of them are very vocal wingnuts and bigots, but in my experience most are reasonable people who i believe are really just being fleeced by all this politicing and faux piousness.

as much as it seems appropriate to demonize those who helped bring bush into office again you have to remember that not all are the freeping fundy you would imagine them to be.

i guess my two points are, when someone calls it the "south" they are naming not just republicans but everyone who is native to the south. i don't think it would be that hard to specify a little more who in the "south" you mean, there are lots of different kinds of southerners.

secondly not all repubs in the south are flaming freeps.

[Ms_Mary]

187. NCer agreeing with you. nt

[ChairOne]

135. Just got back from Vicksburg, MS....

fuck the south

[private_ryan]

140. yeah

that's why I say fuck the south :)

[CalebHayes]

141. I'm a YANKEE and I'm damn proud.

[Saffy]

143. Yep. Born and raised in the Carolina's.

having spent most of my life there, and being force-fed the bs about the south being the true American nation, I stand by fuckthesouth.com 100%. I didn't actually realize that we hadn't won the civil war until after I moved north of the Mason-Dixon!

[Mabeline]

145. I was born and raised in southern NC...

the area I was raised in was heavily democratic, or maybe it was just the friends/family we had... we moved 10 years ago...personally I miss the ocean and the seafood, but I really don't miss the flatness (live in the mountains now) nor the hurricaines.

[Cannikin]

156. I live in Little Rock, AR, and I say, FUCK the south. better dead than red

Since the election, I have planned to move to NY state. I'll be leaving by the new year.

[WMliberal]

157. i live in Hampton Roads Virginia

Pat Robertson's property begins at the end of my street. I shall say loudly "FUCK THE SOUTH"

[Tight_rope]

158. I've lived in TX for 24+ years...and I say fuck the south...damn bigots!

And yes...I still live here and still say fuck the south!

[QC]

159. Why spend a quarter-century in a place you despise?

Life's too short for that. Ever considered moving?

[Tight_rope]

162. Financially can't afford to leave...but if offered a job tonight...

I'm gone tonight.

[SKKY]

160. Yes, I have spent a great deal of time in the "Deep South"...

...and let me tell you, I find those people anything but "Deep".

[I Love Alaska]

163. Louisiana

LOL! I spent many years in Louisiana, man am I glad to get out of that good ol' boy network. Racism is still strong and the pay low unless your are in the loop.

[bvar22]

164. Maybe its the people you choose to hang with.

Try some of these Southerners:

Samuel Clemens

Erskine Caldwell

Truman Capote

Ann Richards

Pat Conroy

Ralph Ellison

William Faulkner

Thomas Wolfe

Harper Lee

Fannie Flagg

Eudora Welty

Tennessee Williams

Flannery O'Connor

Jill McCorkle

Bill Moyers

Bill Clinton

John Grisham

Walker Percey


Those are just a few. I find none of them to be shallow, of course that is just my opinion. They are (were) all deep enough to have written their thoughts, and you can find all of them in your local library. You can find the location of your nearest library online.

Like water, people seek their own level.

[retread]

165. Yeah right! Hope their works survive the book burnings!

*

[Midlodemocrat]

167. I totally agree with you.

And, if you look at the map not as red/blue, but more purple, you will see great pockets of blue. Rather than saying 'fuck the south', how about helping those of us who live and like it here to turn it blue? Or should we just say 'fuck everyone who doesn't live on the coast'?

[datasuspect]

170. they don't call it the "dirty south"

for nothing.

oh, and you just gotta love that historical southern poverty!

can i have more cornbread and lard please?

[Lost4words]

173. Born in Atlanta, IMHO most of the people are nice but stupid.

as a teenager I had a confiderate flag hanging in my room and was proud to be from the South. That is until I really understood what that symbolis was all about. Today I spit on the stars and bars.

The rest of my family is now in SC they have all the same complaints I have but they cannot see any connection to the repukes. They are classic clinton haters and bush lovers. I dont see how they are so god damn stupid!

Basically I agree, fuck the south, and I can say that cause I've lived it.

Why do southereners hate the UnitedStates so much????

Lived in Georgia 5 years
Lived in Missouri 14 years
lived in Flordia 3 years
Lived in Virginia 27 years


I think all are considered southern states.

[mogster]

174. Haha, that was such a good formulation!

> Try and be a little less quick to want to fuck the entire south.

Well said! :-)

[UpsideDownFlag]

180. thanks. i wanted to say it as succinctly and plainly as possible. nt

[noonwitch]

177. I'm not one of those "FTS" people, and I have been to parts of the south

I've found hospitality and some damn good food. I've been to Atlanta, which I found to be a pretty and fun place to visit. Even in the poorest neighborhoods, everyone had a flower garden in their front yard. I was impressed with that, because it makes the city look pretty.
I had some really good barbeque at a place who's name I don't remember. I also had some excellent tex/mex food at the Sundowner in Decatur, great italian food at Rocky's and some excellent pizza at the Avondale Pizzaria. I went shopping at the farmer's market and at Buckhead. Everywhere I went, people were friendly.

The other thing I noticed and appreciated about Atlanta is that the suburbs are integrated. I live in the Detroit area, a northern city, and it is very segregated. Most suburbs are mostly white, and the city is over 80% black. I would say that Atlanta appeared to be much more integrated than that, and where my brother lived in Decatur was very much so.

I also have been to Florida, to visit my dad. Where he lives, everyone is from Michigan or Ohio, so it's hard to judge southernors in that area! The beaches on the gulf are nice.

I drove through Tennesee and Kentucky to get there-the mountains are very beautiful, but I didn't really stop and spend any time there, other than to buy gas or eat a fast food/travel kind of meal. Nashville and Chattanooga look like really nice cities to live in, with the mountains nearby and lots of scenic views around.

I don't think that the north/south thing is as pronounced as people think. The population has shifted over the years, with lots of northernors moving to Florida when they retire or to Texas during the oil boom there in the 70s. During WWII and the automotive boom that followed, there were lots of southernors moving to northern cities. Even in a partisan sense-Florida had a dem governor before Jeb, and Michigan had a republican governor before Granholm, and still has a republican majority in the state legislature.

[tx_dem41]

179. Has this place always been so immature?

I'm new here, but, honestly, I can't believe the immaturity shown by a vocal minority on threads like this!

Is this the face that we want to show to a public that needs our leadership?!?

[UpsideDownFlag]

181. no, it's not normally. just about this particular issue.

try doing a search for "fuck the south"..."goatfuckers"..."rednecks"....you'll see.

[QC]

193. No, it hasn't always been this way here.

There used to be a time, believe it or not, when one could learn a lot of interesting things here, commune with fellow progressives, have lively discussions over issues, etc.

Now the place seems to be more about spewing and high-fiving than anything else. And when this particular issue comes up, along with some others (religion, rural people, guns, etc.) you basically have a mirror image of Free Republic.

[tx_dem41]

197. "Mirror image of FR"

Exactly what I was thinking. :(

[kcwayne]

185. Oh yea, y'all

Virgina 4 years
Texas 17 years
Indiana 11 years

Although Indiana is technically in the North, its temperment and tradition is pure Dixie, KKK and all.

I have met some great Southerners, but I have known a whole lot more that are miserable pieces of shit that I wouldn't let my dawg piss on.

Here's a classic example. My wife is a bleeding heart that will help anyone, and go out of her way BIG TIME to do it. She recently became the guardian for an aged lady from her church who is disabled physically and mentally. Not because she is retarded, she is suffering from being raised in the South, and borderline psychotic.

So my wife is bagged with the duty to haul this lady around to a bunch of doctors who are trying to evaluate her condition and determine whether she needs to be ordered into assisted living. All of this care is being provided by Medicare.

My wife is going crazy trying to get all the loose ends scheduled and managed, and finally gets an appointment with a doctor, and takes old Miss Lilly down to see the doc. They walk in and guess what? The doctor is black. So Miss Lilly promptly walks out of the room and tells my wife she can't see this doctor, because after all, she was raised in the South.

I would have kicked her cracker ass out on the street and left her. My wife convinced her to act like the Christian she professes to be, and take the care that she (my wife) has worked so hard to secure for her. Miss Lilly complied, but very grudgingly.

Oh, and one of the reasons Miss Lilly is in desparate straights is because her family has abandoned her. Her brother is the CFO of La Quinta Inns, and certainly able to financially help her out. But those good old Southern Family Values don't apply in this case.

Fuck the South, and the crackers it rides in on.

[Ms_Mary]

188. I don't know what purpose the alienation and divisiveness serves

other than to turn potential democratic "convertees" away. There are a lot of good people in the south. There are a lot of open-minded, educated, and intelligent people in the south.

Instead of alienating half the country, wouldn't it be more productive to DO something about it? Work on correcting the misconceptions? Setting the facts straight?

So, yeah, hearing Fuck the South, and Let Them Secede really gets to me.

[QC]

195. It allows a few loud and not very bright (or liberal) people

to congratulate themselves on how much better they are than someone else. In other words, it's the same motivation that one finds behind most other displays of bigotry.

[llpoperations]

203. Ms Mary

As a Massachusetts liberal who lived in Birmingham AL for a number of years, I think there's one element of this discussion which has been overlooked. The arrogance and narrow mindedness has always been a part of the Southern culture, even at the highest levels of the society, and expresses itself as an reflection of their superior moral values.

Now, I don't really care about what these assholes think, but I resent like hell the fact that they are promoting their fundie, redneck prejudices with my federal tax dollars. If all the "good people" in the South want to do something productive, they might point out that those of us in the Northeast and West Coast pay more in federal taxes than we receive in services, while the South gets back much more in Federal largesse than they put in.

Fuck the South is just another way of saying, "Don't piss on my shoe and think that I should pay for the privledge."

Who in their right mind would want to emulate these Neanderthals?

[Ms_Mary]

209. The south has no monopoly on arrogance and narrow mindedness

I think, if you look, you will find that those traits exist wherever humans do. Emulate them? I fail to see who has suggested that.

Again with the genralizing? You are effectively including me in with those assholes, rednecks and neanderthals. Excuse me if that doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

It's incredibly arrogant to assume that we aren't doing anything. A lot of us are out here busting our asses every single day. And, there is a reason we pay less in taxes and get more in services. Clearly, you aren't a socialist democrat:

Average earnings per job
2000 My county: $22,480, NC: $31,072

Median household income
2000 My County: $27,992, NC: $39,184


Why not move? I love it here. I feel like I can do something to make a difference. This is my home and it's breathtakingly beautiful.

It's easy to generalize, harder to do something about it.

[mike_c]

189. I was born and raised in the South but have little use for...

...southern politics. I say fuck bigotry, entrenched conservatism, and christian fundamentalism, for a start. If the shoe fits....

[Zinfandel]

190. FUCK NO! and Fuck the South!!!! Who wants to go to the south???

Humidity, brain-fried, barefoot, white lightening drinking interbreeding rednecks.

Of course all the above is bullshit stereo-types and not true (for the most part)...

However, the south's backward politics, legislation and isolationist views speaks for itself...And no one is talking about fucking Florida...that was long ago exploited by developers and settled by people from the north & all around the world.

I'm talking the south, save New Orleans, fuck the rest of the humid fucking backward fundamentalist baptist south!!!

[secedeeconomically]

192. Yes, I’ve driven through it

Which the only way i want to see that shit whole from the rear view mirror of my car lol

[Skittles]

194. yes, been here almost 30 years

nt

[itzamirakul]

196. Yep! I spent 20 years there one night...

in 1957 - heart of racist Georgia - backwoods - segregation - jim crow trains - separate drinking fountains - no restaurants that would serve blacks, hatred in the eyes of whites, etc, etc,etc. Under the Bush administration it is headed back in the same direction.

I'm glad that you love it and I am sure there are some good folks there...too bad there is not enough of them to defeat this racist government we have now. But as for me...I didn't lose a damn thing in the south that I need to go back for. And btw, my family was from Spartenburgh, South Carolina. I'm glad as hell that they left before I was born.

[superconnected]

198. yes, lived there

didn't like it, wouldn't advise it.

[Raenelle]

205. I've lived in Kentucky and Florida. Do they count?

You're right. There were a lot of great people there. But the ones who had the money, the ones who had control, were mostly anti-Union, white men who obviously felt a great sense of entitlement to just about anything they wanted, and they were deeply agrieved if anyone "beneath" them questioned their privileges.

[ironcity]

212. the south

everyone stop,read these replys and then ask yourself why the south has left the democrats,i am a southern democrat and and most of what is being posted here pisses me off,we just lost 4 senate seats and will lose more as long the national party ignores us and the rest of the nation downgrades us

[kaitykaity]

213. Yeah, I lived there.

Oklahoma.

"If uu don't buh-leeve in Jeezus, yur goin' tuh He-all!!!"

Fuck the South.

[UpsideDownFlag]

220. Where in Oklahoma, exactly?

I had a friend who lived in OKC...said it was a pretty heavily democratic area.

[kaitykaity]

221. Big cities almost all are democratic.

I live in Portland now and it's 70%+ democratic.

I lived in OKC for two years, from ages 10 to 12, then
a little town called Wetumka from 12 to 16. I got married
when I was 16, then when I was 17 I joined the Army and
went to Germany.

I've been back three times. After my last grandparent
died, that was it. I'll never go back.

I say again, fuck the South.

[6th Borough]

248. Oklahoma is the ONLY state in which EVERY county voted Bush over Kerry.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Karenina]

214. Been there, done that

HATED having guns trained on us in Texarkana and the "vibes" in LA, MO, TN and AL. Know LOTS of really super folks from the area, but got no hankerin' to go there a-callin' again this lifetime.

[donheld]

216. i've only spent 4 day's in the south

I would never say fuck the south. I hate the ideas and attitudes of some people in the south, but sadly i find some of those ideas and attitudes where ever i go. Those things are not exclusive to the south

[noiretextatique]

217. i have, and i never say "fuck the south"

because, as you mention, there are a lot of good democrats and good people who happen to live there...including my staunchly democratic relatives. there are certain parts of my state where i would never live, where they are good democrats outnumbered by republicans. california is, at best, a maroonish state, except for the two big metro areas.

[jesusq]

218. I've lived down south for almost 20 years

After being told many times, "Yankee, go home," I finally did. Some of the places I've lived in the south were tolerable, but Tallahassee, FL was my favorite southern town. There is a strong liberal influence, heavy emphasis on the environment, sustainable growth and bike paths. Racism is not as prevalent as you would expect.

But North Carolina was the worst. Except for the immediate areas around the universities, it is a very discouraging and lonely place for a liberal to be.

I suggest that Red-State liberal move to Pittsburgh, PA. Wages are decent, thanks to the Heinz, Mellon and Carnegie Foundations, we have some amazing cultural opportunism, lots of blue-collar democrats, a good football team ... and you can buy a very nice 3 bedroom brick house for about $85,000. If you miss the south, the Mason Dixon line is only 70 miles away <grin>

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

219. That's right, fellow Virginian and blue voter. Though I was born in VA

and have lived here my whole life, a lot of people do get on my nerves here, but people everywhere do, so there we are.

[Lizzie Borden]

222. Yes.

[Columbia]

223. Amen

Good thread, Jib. :toast:

[UpsideDownFlag]

228. thanks columbia

not much bothers me about DU, but this kinda thing is pretty high on the short list.

[Columbia]

229. Ditto

IMHO, this type of attitude is a large part of why we lost.

[UpsideDownFlag]

232. well, i have to say that i think the biggest reason why we lost...

is because it was stolen. ;-)

however, i do agree that it makes us look bad.

[Columbia]

233. Of course

But it has to be close to be stolen and it should have never been close.

[UpsideDownFlag]

235. that's true, i was one of the few why actually thought it would be

something of a landslide...

[AnIndependentTexan]

225. I'm in Texas and I want to leave

I say we give all red states a magic pill that stops them from having babies. It will work in the long term.

[datasuspect]

256. i'm damn near ready

to start walking out of this shithole (near beaumont, tx).

this place is a hole.

[tx_dem41]

262. Now, now data....

Being from Louisiana, and having lived in Houston and now Dallas for 23 years, you do have enough Cajun culture and the great food that goes along with it to last a little longer. ;-)

That said, Beaumont is waaayyy too close to Vidor.

[datasuspect]

264. some good things around here

nice enough place to visit, probably good place to come retire, but definitely not the place if you're used to things moving faster.

i never could see what the big deal was about cajun food. overspiced and way too hot. give me an italian beef, gyros, or some good pizza any day.

looking at getting back to chicago in the dead of winter and relishing the the thought that i can finally have some good "thinking weather." this humidity here is wayyyy too stultifying for me.

[tx_dem41]

265. Well, now you're talking blasphemy when ....

...knocking Cajun food. ;-)

[datasuspect]

266. some of the fish dishes

are alright, as long as they don't overload with that god-forsaken tony chachere's seasoning or <ACK> cayenne pepper.

[tx_dem41]

267. I'm not a fan of

Tony Chachere's seasoning...too salty...but there is nothing bad about good ole' cayenne. Maybe it could be a bit hotter for my taste. ;)

That being said, there are dishes that don't necessarily have to be THAT spicy, if cooked correctly.

[datasuspect]

268. like cornbread

or bbq - i have no fundamental disagreements with either of these fine comestibles.

[tx_dem41]

269. Especially jalapeno cornbread.

Now, something tells me you have a problem with that!

[datasuspect]

270. easy on the jalapeno

but you can scrape the seeds out and that removes most of the capsacin (sp?) the actual pepper is really tasty, but i'd throw a can of creamed corn and some cheddar cheese for good measure.

[tx_dem41]

271. Now that sounds good....

tell me when its ready, and I'll be right over. :-)

[datasuspect]

272. you want that with pinto beans? n/t

[tx_dem41]

273. Excellent! n/t

[Carson]

226. Thanks for trying, UpsideDownFlag. So many of the posts here make

me ashamed and embarrassed of DU.

There a lots of wonderful people here, but some folks just make me sadly shake my head.

By the way, there are good people of all political stripes in the South.

I love the South and am proud to be Southern.

eom

[UpsideDownFlag]

227. thanks. I would like to think that people can appreciate the difference

between saying 'fuck the south' and 'fuck republicans'.

[Bouncy Ball]

230. I live in the south

and I say FUCK the southern bush voters. Hell fuck bush voters everywhere.

But especially fuck bush voters in the south and everyone else here with that mindset.

[illbill]

231. Some good; most bad.

Fuck The South explains everything I would want to say to a stubborn Conservative Bush supporter. Although there are many good and enlightened people in the South, the web site captures everything I would say to the majority of ignorant simpletons.

[aquaman]

234. I am truly sick of all this ignorant bullshit.......

I have lived in the south almost all of my life, over 32 years. I would like many people in the south to be more enlightened and progressive sure, but to pack my bags to leave what I know as home is not an option. I have friends, yes liberals in the south, ohhh my. I have a house in a rural area with land that I would not trade for anything in the world. I guess I have always been oblivious to how ignorant many of the so-called "better" Du'ers are because they don't live in the south. They preach some of the same stereotypical poison that the people that they are complaining about. I believe that there are ignorant people in the south, but also the northeast, west coast, midwest, etc. Ignorance is everywhere my friends. The "I hate the south" posts may be true on some points, but many of these ignorant fucks that post these comments need to look in their own backyard.

[UpsideDownFlag]

242. I feel for ya. How much of the vote in your are went to kerry? nt

[aquaman]

250. Actually the county that I live in went for Kerry,

But we are all still ignorant because we live in the south. I can't believe that I can even spell because I am so dumb, you know, being a southerner and all.

[retread]

243. Unfortunately I heard similar statements as a teenager in the south.

This was during the civil rights fight and the oft repeated statement went something like this, "How dare those yankees come down here and tell us how to treat our colored!! They need to clean up their own backyard!"
I am convinced that a large part of the modern repig success in the south is due to racism. Seems a moot point that other parts of the country have bigots also.

[aquaman]

251. You are right,

The South is a horrible place and that because there are racist fucks everywhere in this country, the south is still worse because it's the south. Brilliant post.

[tx_dem41]

252. What an outrageous comparison!

I guess you believe that no Southern whites had any positive role in the Civil Rights movement.

The post you responded to said nothing about being passive to fighting racism.

[aquaman]

255. I agree tx dem, I about came through the computer screen..

when I read that one. This poster sounds like an elitist, you now kinda like the racist bastards that he/she is talking about.

[RebelOne]

241. I live in the Atlanta, GA metro area.

And in my county, I am surrounded by right-wingers, but I still like it here. I am a transplant from Miami, FL, and Georgia is a heck of a better place to live than that "hell hole of the South."

[Nightwing]

245. Be it north or south, we're all Americans in the end

I've traveled extensively through the south and along the way have met plenty of wonderful, down to earth, caring people. The only state that I've ever experienced any rudeness has been Texas, but I just feel that is the nature of Texans. But you can find plenty of rudeness as well in New York city.

Oklahoma can be a bit different, but most of the people I've met and talked to there are quite nice. The same goes for North and South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Arkansas and Tennessee. Parts of Kentucky aren't bad but some will really make you shake your head. But even my home state of Ohio can be that way.

As I said before, be it north, south, east or west, we're all Americans in the end.

[Mabeline]

257. That was a very nice thing to say..

:) (I live in KY) Have to agree about the Kentucky stuff...too true..

[Malva Zebrina]

246. I travelled the blue and black roads

all throughout the South--reason being we had never been there, except to Orlando which was accessed via 1-95 all the way down.

I found that people are pretty much the same human beings as elsewhere. At the time, I was a political numbhead so did not pay attention to that.

Two of the most kind, ordinary people we met were a couple who were the hosts in a national park campground in South Carolina. We spent a lot of time just sitting watching pelicans dive into the intercoastal waterway canal, and talking to them.

We went through the mountains of WV and I found the people there to be friendly also.

I thought people in San Antonio to be the friendliest and most enjoyable company.

We travelled through Mississippi, and on the whole did not like a lot of what I saw there, but yet, the people were very friendly also. We were searching for ancestral roots and were taken through a really typical levee town that appeared to be deteriorating fast, or perhaps slowly, by the Mayor of that town. We stopped in the police station to make inquiries and he was in there. He took us to many homes--ante bellum types, knocked on the doors and we spent time talking to the inhabitants. It was precious. He introduced us to every person that was outside their homes doing some chore etc. When we tried to pay for groceries with a check or card and it appeared it would not be accepted, the mayor was there again vouching for our check. I don't know how he came to be in the supermarket right behind us.:wink:

We went to the school where the secretary was most helpful. We went to the little bank and were escorted around, looking at all the old black and white pictures of the town on the wall there while the bank manager paused to tell us what each was. The place we were looking for, a hotel, had burnt down years ago. The librarian in the little library was extremely friendly also. Apparently the Mayor was quite proud of his town and went out of his way to see to it that we found a nearby campground and also to drive us around town in his car, pointing out all the ante bellum type homes--- that were now owned by blacks--including his daughter, who was a professor at some nearby college. He also took us through the area of town that was filled with hovels and obviously the very poor lived there. That was not pleasant sight, indeed.

It was a story of a town once vibrant with visitors, merchantmen and business people deteriorating into unkempt streets,cracked sidewalks, mostly empty stores and well I am sure many have seen the demise of the small town and know what I mean.

The Mayoral escort all around town was a snapshot into the legendary Southern hospitality at it's best, I thought.

We travelled through Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas, VA, Maryland for a period of four months, stopping in the more touristy areas as well as the little convenience store on some rural backroad.

We met a likeable young man in Louisiana named Mika who was fishing in a boat on what we now know were rice fields combined with prawn farm, but at the time could not figure out what all of those things sticking up out of the water were. So we stopped to take pictures--then Mika came up and we asked him all about what he was doing--he invited us into his boat!

We watched him bait those things, which were prawn traps, all the while paddling this flat bottomed boat with his feet. He answered all our questions, including the economics behind his prawn farm. What a memorable experience!

People are pretty much the same all over, I think. All it took was a willingness to be friendly with them. Someday I will relate much the same story of our travels in Gaspe Peninsula,Quebec Canada, where we were woefully lost as far as speaking French goes.

[Isere]

249. Lovely, lovely post!

I shall look forward to reading about your other travels!

[supernova]

259. MUST READ!

This is a lovely post. Thank you. :-)

[supernova]

258. Holy Crap! I can't believe this thread is still going!

:eyes:

99% of the people in this thread obviously have nothing better to do, nothing productive to do with themselves, other than sit and bitch about something they can't control.

Me? I'm too busy working with my county DEM party and our shiny new NC Progressive Caucus waste my time on this crap.

Get a life, y'all. :hi:

[Name removed]

261. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[supernova]

263. They don't want to see that Edwarttha

They don't see the Sikh temple that was just built here a couple of years ago. They don't see all our new, hard-working Latin neighbors either. :eyes:

Non-Southerners would only rather see our flaws. It makes them feel superior. How elitist. I thought we stood for the working folks and the downtrodden? I guess I'm wrong. I'm just an evil Southerner, not good for anything.

This is a very old, old argument on DU.

Welcome to DU Edwardtha! :toast: There is lots to explore besides the great "The South is Evil" Divide.

[bvar22]

277. You forgot Polan....ahhh.... New Orleans

...which has MUCH MUCH more to offer than most Northern Cities.

I live in a bluer than blue Northern City, and if the assholes are successful in walling off the South I'll be on the other side eating oysters at Felix's in New Orleans.


To all the misguided DUers who promote the "Fuck the South" program:
Hey, follow your bliss. Do what you gotta do to feed your Spiritual Growth, but please, please,PLEASE stay out of The South.
The South already has its quota of bigots, and doesn't need you adding to the problem.


To ALL DUers who LIVE in The South, and Hate the South:
They are hiring in Detroit. Please do your fair share to End Bigotry in The South by leaving.

[w4rma]

279. Don't associate those values with Jesus by using the term "Jesusland"

HATEing your neighbor (whether they are Jew, Cathlic or gay) is not something Jesus taught, yet that is about the extent of their "values". Plus greed and their obession with gaining legal and economic power over women.

And, btw, why on earth do you have a picture attempting to condemn the South by labeling them "Jesusland" while telling others not to condemn the South?