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Anyone seen 9/11: In Plane Sight? n/t

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maxsmom Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:58 AM
Original message
Anyone seen 9/11: In Plane Sight? n/t
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes.
Some good points but on the whole...not so good.
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bPikert Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree.
It makes you think about a couple things but didn't really have anything solid.
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I think the whole thing about the Pentagon was all wrong.
But I will admit it sounded rather convincing. It is rather curious that the size of the whole and all but...he claimed there was no wreckage but in one of the pictures I saw...a piece of wreckage...

The reason I say this is becausen, my mother and father in law were in DC that day near the Pentagon. They actually saw that plane decending so I have trouble with someone saying that the Pentagon wasn't hit by a plane.
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firebee Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Can't deny that planes hit....
However, when comparing the damage the plane did to the Pentagon to the damage the plane did to the WTC, you come up with some pretty extreme results. The plane hitting the pentagon did little to nothing, besides putting a hole in the side of the building. The planes hitting the twin towers completely collapsed the buildings by heating the steel to a high enough temperature, that it collapsed. Why didn't this happen at the Pentagon??? Why did the jet fuels make the steel infrastructure hot enough to collapse in twin towers, but the jet fuels didn't make the steel hot enough in the pentagon to collapse one side???
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. maybe because the Pentagon
is made of hardened concrete?
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. and because
the WTC's top floors collapsed, pancaking the rest. As for not doing much damage to the Pentagon, this is what all had to be replaced. hate to see what you would consider to be a lot of danage.

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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. PHOTOSHOPPED!!!!
just kidding. the 'no pentagon plane' crowd will claim it though.

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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. BOL.
you scared me for a second there! LOL
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Also, didn't they just finish "hardening" that side of the building
prior to the attack? I think it was done as part of the overhall of the building.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. correct!

the WTC was tissue paper. the pentagon was granite.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Also, didn't they just finish "hardening" that side of the building
prior to the attack? I think it was done as part of the overhall of the building.
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Slit Skirt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. much better videos of 9/11
the Great Conspiracy....Barrie Zwicker
9/11 The Great Illusion ... George Humphrey
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maxsmom Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. thanks for the replies
I thought about ordering, but then thought I'd check with you all first.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. Mentioned in Crawford TX's Iconoclast newspaper!
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 08:11 AM by anarchy1999
Front Page!

Multimillionaire philanthropist from Walden Three basing his $100,000 reward on his findings from this tome. Great film or not, it got him some ink!

Go to www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/s01.htm

(BTW, if you go to iconoclasttexas.com by mistake, you get redirected to operationiraqifreedom.com Frikkin freepers!)
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. how many thimes does this CRAP have to be debunked
This stupid film pops up here over and over again, cripes. the whole idea that the airline didn't hit the Pentagon is so stupid I am amazed otherwise reasonable people don't laugh it back into the loonie bin where it belongs..

there are
- eyewitnesses, literally HUNDREDS
- remains of the plane, the passangers and their belongings
- telephone poles knocked down where the aircraft hit them
- the eyewitnesses who saw the "mysterious" videotape taken from the nearby hotel don't doubt that it was an American Airliner that hit the Pentagon.
- the damage at the Pentagon is consistant with what THE HUNDREDS OF EYEWITNESSES saw.

sheesh.


Some Links..


http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33 /

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/crashthumbnails.ht ...

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon_20020316 ....


http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm


Eyewitness Accounts...

"USAToday.com Editor Joel Sucherman saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. It was highly unusual. The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. 'My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction,' Sucherman said. 'It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle—almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course."
- "Journalist Witnesses Pentagon Crash." eWeek.com, 13 Sep 2001


"On a Metro train to National Airport, Allen Cleveland looked out the window to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. 'I thought, "There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,"' he said. Before he could process that thought, he saw 'a huge mushroom cloud. The lady next to me was in absolute hysterics.'"
- "Our Plane Is Being Hijacked." Washington Post, 12 Sep 2001

"I was supposed to have been going to the Pentagon Tuesday morning at about 11:00am (EDT) and was getting ready, and thank goodness I wasn't going to be going until later. It was so shocking, I was listening to the news on what had happened in New York, and just happened to look out the window because I heard a low flying plane and then I saw it hit the Pentagon. It happened so fast... it was in the air one moment and in the building the next..."
- "U.S. Under Attack: Your Eyewitness Accounts." BBC News, 14 Sep 2001

"As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead. ... Seconds before the Pentagon came into view a huge black cloud of smoke rose above the road ahead. I came around the bend and there was the Pentagon billowing smoke, flames and debris, blackened on one side and with a gaping hole where the airplane had hit it."
- "Eyewitness at the Pentagon." Human Events, 17 Sep 2001

"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002

"'I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings, went right there and slammed into the Pentagon,' eyewitness Mike Walter said of the plane that hit the military complex. 'Huge explosion, great ball of fire, smoke started billowing out, and then it was just chaos on the highway as people either tried to move around the traffic and go down either forward or backwards,' he said."
- "Witnesses and Leaders on Terrorist Attacks." CNN, 11 Sep 2001

"'(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target,' said Fred Gaskins, who was driving to his job as a national editor at USA Today near the Pentagon when the plane passed about 150 feet overhead. 'It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint that anything was wrong.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

'I saw the tail of a large airliner. ... It plowed right into the Pentagon," said an Associated Press Radio reporter who witnessed the crash. 'There is billowing black smoke.'"
- "America's Morning of Terror." ChannelOne.com, 2001

"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "'It added power on its way in,' he said. 'The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Steve Eiden, a truck driver, had picked up his cargo that Tuesday morning in Williamsburg, Va., and was en route to New York City and witnessed the aftermath. ... He took the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon and thought it odd to see a plane in restricted airspace, thinking to himself it was odd that it was flying so low. 'You could almost see the people in the windows,' he said as he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Then he saw the Pentagon on fire, and an announcement came over the radio that the Pentagon had been hit."
- "Sept. 11, the Day America Changed." The Baxter Bulletin, 2001

"Traffic is normally slow right around the Pentagon as the road winds and we line up to cross the 14th Street bridge heading into the District of Columbia. I don’t know what made me look up, but I did and I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating. My first thought was just 'No, no, no, no,' because it was obvious the plane was not heading to nearby Reagan National Airport. It was going to crash."
- "September 11 Remembered." University Week, 4 Oct 2001

Father Stephen McGraw was driving to a graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept. 11, when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. 'I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars.' McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. 'The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building,' he said. 'My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression,' he said. 'There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.'"
- "Pentagon Crash Eyewitness Comforted Victims." MDW News Service, 28 Sep 2001

"I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke."
- Steve Anderson, Director of Communications, USA Today

"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 2002

"Northern Virginia resident John O'Keefe was one of the commuters who witnessed the attack on the Pentagon. 'I was going up 395, up Washington Blvd., listening to the the news, to WTOP, and from my left side-I don't know whether I saw or heard it first- I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,' said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. 'It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I'd just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, "That's not going to make it to National Airport." And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black, thick smoke.'"
- "Terrorist 'Situation'." American Lawyer Media, 11 Sep 2001

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. really? the remains of the plane, passengers, and their belongings?
I missed that one. I saw one bright shiny ripped piece of metal on the pentagon lawn that seems photoshopped in the pic (even though it has appeared on 'snopes') I mean, come on. It's gleaming silver, contains the logo and isn't singed in the least.

I did see a wheel pulled from the wreckage that seems consistent with the claims of that an air craft hit the pentagon.

The downed telephone poles are interesting circumstantial evidence that I hadn't heard before. I'd like to see photos of those.

The eyewitness reports don't have that much power for me because there have also been claims by dozens of folks who say they saw a small, non-commercial jet hit the building. On the whole, eye witness reports I think are unreliable.

But, please, if you have evidence of the 'passengers and their belongings' in the wreckage, please forward that info.

That would definitely solve this puzzle once and for all.
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Goathead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Yes but eye witnesses said it was a commuter plane
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 05:16 PM by Goathead


It is easy to see how a commuter jet could be confused with a cruise missile. I personally do not think the Pentagon was struck by an airplane. All evidence points to a cruise missile.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. slight correction....
NO evidence points to a cruise missile.

it is way overdue for this SILLY thread to be banished to the TinFoilJungle.
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Goathead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. And show me the edvidence of a commercial jet crash
I don't believe there is any.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. frankly, I DON'T HAVE TO.
you want to pursue a lunatic fringe theory? YOU PROVE IT.

when Kristin Brietweiser or Paul Thompson or ANY RESPECTABLE 9/11 advocate voice takes this NONSENSE seriously... ring me.

in the meantime.... I want photos of the MISSLE, I want YOUR chemical analysis of the debris. I want ONE SINGLE SHRED OF VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE that ANYTHING but a plane (that was witnessed) hit that building. I want the name, address and homephone of the guy who planted the jetliner tire in the debris. (that's for starters, when you provide all that, i'll give you the rest of the list.)

guess what, you can't. buh-bye!

p.s. a WHOLE lot STINKS about what happened on 9/11. but this pathetic, STUPID shit doesn't help, in fact, it descredits legitimate investigation.
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Goathead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Where is your photo of the plane?
Where is the wreckage? Why were there holes "punched" through the walls of the Pentagon terminating in a hole about the size of a small car?
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. you first!
photo of the MISSILE. you know damn well that body of the plane was virtually disintegrated by the impact with the HEAVILY REINFORCED wall of the Pentagon.

you certainly don't need me to google the engine and the wheel pics for you, do you?

oh, almost forgot. please detail:

location of the hijacked flight (the plane, crew and passengers)

discuss: you've flown planes into two buildings, have two more planes under your control, but, you decide to 'vanish' one plane and use a missle instead. why waste a perfectly good hijacked plane?

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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. more "mistakes" in your posts
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 08:04 PM by WoodrowFan
sheesh, you have no shame. The hole matched the size of a 757.


http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf

wreakage






your inability to seemingly even recognize such blatent inaccuracies (ahem) suggests to me that you have nothing to add to this but more disinformation.

bye bye
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Goathead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Isn't also a little too convenient that Rummy ran out to help?
At the very least it was completely irresponsible and it also smashes preset protocols in the regards to the continuity of government and an attack on the Pentagon by what is perceived to be a foreign power. He should have been on the first chopper outta there, considering that "taking out" our top most military planner would have been a tragedy in the aftermath of Sept 11. Rummy was planted to be a "hero"
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. and this guy doesn't believe there's any proof the world is round...
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 08:03 PM by WoodrowFan
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm

and your ability to ignore the nose on your face doesn't mean it doesn't exist either..

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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. You do have to bear in mind a lot of people are morons.
Don't ever forget that.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. you're right, CTers prove it every day here.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. no, they did not
do CTers EVER tire of lying? The eyewitnesses said it was an American Airlines passager jet. try actually READING my post with the eyewitness account. go ahead, it won't hurt.


in the mean time, bye bye.
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. I completely believe
I completely believe the official explanations from the administration about everything that has happened over the last four years and can't understand why anyone would have any questions.

Until and unless someone can explain and prove beyond any doubt some alternative explanation I'm sticking by my fearless leader. Anyone who even tries to speculate on any alternative explanations will be given no credit whatsoever by me.

Even though the official explanations are full of holes and are bigger tinfoil conspiracy theories than the wackiest stuff on the Internet, that doesn't matter because they are the official version.

When in doubt, it is always safer to err on the side of believing in the government. Governments have never done any real harm to their people, while anti-government theorist-types have always disturbed people's happy emotional states and caused them to stop shopping and going about their business. This hurts the economy, which hurts the country, which leads to tyranny.

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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. red herring
you don't have to "believe" this administration to accept the so called "official" version. You only have to follow the facts..



But then, maybe the moon landings were faked because they happened while Nixon was President and we all know what a lier he was.

bye bye
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. agreed
I was kidding of course. There is an increasingly prevalent either/or tendency to people's thinking, with everything couched in us versus them terms. Both positions in these debates are often untenable. The official version of the events of 9/11 is a crock, and so are many of the alternate theories. People have such an urge to line up on one extremist side or the other of every issue and battle it out, that it is difficult to have much of an intelligent discussion.
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JaneEyrez Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Too funny...
Edited on Wed Dec-15-04 02:58 PM by JaneEyrez
I sure hope the rest of the readers got it!
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. If there is no conspiracy...
why doesn't the pentagon release the two, yes two, videos they have that show the whole disaster from their pentagon lawn view?

hmmm?

or do they have something to hide?

you people who believe that the evil dark skinned 'islamists' are the only group behimd 9-11 must still believe in santa claus and that jesus christ rose from the dead.
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JaneEyrez Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Don't you think that's a BIT offensive...
Edited on Wed Dec-15-04 03:07 PM by JaneEyrez
lumping a belief in Santa Claus in with the resurrection of Jesus Christ, a central tenet of the Christian faith?

Sorry that this posted three times, but an error message told me that I should repost, which I did, but only ONE time. I wasn't trying to make THAT much of a statement.
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JaneEyrez Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Don't you think that's a BIT offensive...
lumping a belief in Santa Claus in with the resurrection of Jesus Christ, a central tenet of the Christian faith?
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JaneEyrez Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Don't you think that's a BIT offensive...
Lumping a belief in Santa Claus with believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is a central tenet of the Christian faith?
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