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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 03:41 AM
Original message
Bill Moyers: Repug-Right fundies to ruin environment as "pre-Rapture plan"
Read and weep, DUers:

Bill Moyers, "The Delusional is no Longer Marginal":

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/the_delusional_is_no_longer_marginal.php
(Also see http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/scherer-christian/index.html quoted in the Moyers article.)

There are too many gems in Moyers' article to enumerate. A few money quotes:

"In public testimony he {Reagan Interior Secretary James Watt} said, 'after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back.'"

"Its outline {Dispensationalist pre-millenial Christianity, as interpreted by Hal Lindsey, Tim Lahaye, and the Left Behind series} is rather simple, if bizarre (the British writer George Monbiot recently did a brilliant dissection of it and I am indebted to him for adding to my own understanding): Once Israel has occupied the rest of its 'biblical lands,' legions of the anti-Christ will attack it, triggering a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon. As the Jews who have not been converted are burned, the messiah will return for the rapture. True believers will be lifted out of their clothes and transported to heaven, where, seated next to the right hand of God, they will watch their political and religious opponents suffer plagues of boils, sores, locusts, and frogs during the several years of tribulation that follow. I'm not making this up. {emphasis mine}"

"It's why the invasion of Iraq for them was a warm-up act, predicted in the Book of Revelations where four angels 'which are bound in the great river Euphrates will be released to slay the third part of man.' A war with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared but welcomed—an essential conflagration on the road to redemption." {Revealing isn't it? Nothing to stop war from spreading, and you and yours will be drafted to fulfill the Bushies' and fundies' foolish plan.}

"So what does this mean for public policy and the environment? Go to Grist http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/scherer-christian/index.html to read a remarkable work of reporting by the journalist Glenn Scherer. Read it and you will see how millions of Christian fundamentalists may believe that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed—even hastened—as a sign of the coming apocalypse. As Grist makes clear, we're not talking about a handful of fringe lawmakers who hold or are beholden to these beliefs."

"And why not? There's a constituency for it. A 2002 TIME/CNN poll found that 59 percent of Americans believe that the prophecies found in the book of Revelations are going to come true. Nearly one-quarter think the Bible predicted the 9/11 attacks. ... And you will come to understand why people under the spell of such potent prophecies cannot be expected, as Grist puts it, "to worry about the environment. Why care about the earth when the droughts, floods, famine and pestilence brought by ecological collapse are signs of the apocalypse foretold in the Bible? Why care about global climate change when you and yours will be rescued in the rapture? And why care about converting from oil to solar when the same God who performed the miracle of the loaves and fishes can whip up a few billion barrels of light crude with a word?"

So there you have it, folks. The Christian-righters who form the backbone of the Bush constituency want to utterly destroy the environment and take active efforts to kill every whale, pollute every stream, and uproot every tree b/c it would advance their sick agenda, in their minds, to advance the Rapture. WTF has happened to Christianity in the USA? I was raised and remain Christian, and took seriously all the commandments to be a good steward of the environment, love thy neighbor, and so on. Yet now, much of the faith-- and, in turn, the USA itself-- is in the hands of hate-spewing, environment-loathing fanatics who literally want to despoil the Earth to fulfill their delusions.

I've never been so angry before about the direction of our country. We have to consider everything, including outright secession if necessary, to stop these fanatics. I'm not going to let some Bush-coddled corporation go into my community and destroy its streams, natural habitats, and parks in fulfillment of this madness. And unlike some GOP policies that can be at least partly reversed in the future, environmental damage is very tough to undo. I certainly don't want to be a part (and a pawn) of this sick fundy Republican plan to ruin our planet's ecology, and since these people are obviously so thoroughly deluded and brainwashed that they'll never be convinced otherwise, we may need to ponder secession if things continue to progress like this. No union with Canada or other superstructure, just secession into several sub-nations if necessary to thwart the maniacs who are destroying the USA and spreading their poison worldwide. I'm an American patriot but sometimes patriotism means combating the madness that has overtaken your nation, as many thousands of Germans did in the German Resistance against Hitler when the Nazis seized control. That's true patriotism. I can't meekly ignore it when our country is led by such destructive fools intent on wreaking such havoc. We have the power to stop this! Better than standing by to powerlessly watch our lakes and streams, our parks, and our surroundings be mercilessly ruined by profiteers and Rapturist fanatics.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. How do we stop them?
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. We need to push the fact that the GOP has become a Mind control Cult
They are NOT teaching what Christ taught (which has long been the fundies test of if it's a Cult) :crazy:

Check out this site, and see if you don't agree:
<http://www.howcultswork.com/>
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rlev1223 Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. If they really do leave their shoes and clothes......
...lying around, there could be a lot of happy left behinds. Except I'm not sure who would want to grab a pair of used bendover pants.....

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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. Dickie's Action Slacks & Bobbie Brooks separates n/t
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. Thousands and thousands of pairs of brown polyester Sansabelt pants.
Ours for the taking...
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Ruffhowse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. It may not sound like much, but I'm afraid all we really have to fight
these nutjobs with is education. We must open the eyes of the zombies who are following these lunatics. It won't be an easy task, but somehow we must prevail. Current times must be what it was like to live during the Inquisition when religion got totally out of control and went murderously insane. We must figure out a way to reign it in by educating our citizens to the truth.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. I think they're immune to education
I say we fight superstition with superstition. We can start with a vengeful God who punishes those who second guess his plans and destroy his creations.
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Undercover Owl Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. people believe this shit?
"..after the last tree is felled....."
Great! Sounds like heaven to me!
Yes, God actually WANTS us to destroy the earth!

'Keep on bulldozing & paving & polluting for Bush's interests!'
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. The joke is going to be on them
when everything is destroyed and there is no rapture and they have to live in the filthy mess they created. :o
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RadicalMom Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Will Anything be able to live in the mess they created?
except for the cockroaches which are supposed to survive everything.
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RadicalMom Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Will Anything be able to live in the mess they created?
except for the cockroaches which are supposed to survive everything.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. No I don't think anything can live
and the dying is going to be agonizing, they will be mighty surprised to die that kind of horrible death and not be immediately raptured.
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Old Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. I don't believe Bush and the inner circle believe this
I have heard a lot of talk about how the fundies in this country have actually abandoned Christ the first coming and only worship the second coming, and the immediate and violent retribution that follows.

this explains how they have freed themselves from the need to follow the peaceful and loving philosophies Jesus expounded, and their self-justifying attitude in trying to forcefully build a Christian nation. It's an unhappy coincidence this has happened within an American generation more self-important than any that had come before.

They should be reading the bible rather than the "Left Behind" series.

Here's a clue to any fundies out there: God does NOT need your help for anything. You need HIS. If you are actively trying to bring about the rapture, you have been tricked into playing for the wrong team.

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RadicalMom Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Duh!
Here I thought these people weren't logical.
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. This is such a great post.
"If you are actively trying to bring about the rapture, you have been tricked into playing for the wrong team."

We need a Christian religious leader, an anti-Falwell, to educate these people. There's obviously some hatred and bloodlust in their hearts, but many of them can probably be brought back to worship the peace-loving, compassionate Bible-Jesus rather than head-chopping-off, serial killer Left-Behind-Jesus. We just need a leader to tell them that they are not acting Christ-like with all this warmongering bloodlust.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Well put, Mouse.
Edited on Tue Dec-14-04 07:46 AM by BiggJawn
I recall reading about the FALLACY of trying to "help the Lord along". Something about "No man may know the hour of His coming" and such.
They are truly deluded. Even moreso....
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
40. Says something about
"He will come as a thief in he night.." etc..

Meaning that you can't FORCE Jesus to come, he has to have plenty of lube :)

and that lube is NOT BLOOD..

There are also passages that say, "do not test the Lord" etc, and they are supposed to mean that NO ONE KNOWS..

Looks like they don't even read their own handbook..
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. GREAT response
and 'on point'. :thumbsup:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
34. Excellent response
I'll have to remember that.
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RadicalMom Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. Oh, I understand now..
We just support Israel's actions because they are really pawns in our efforts to help God with His rapture plan. Oh, okay.
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Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. That, to a large degree, really does explain it
the support for the environment, the abandonment of Christ's teachings in favor or the vengence they will have when he returns on their enemies, the okaying of the raping of the environment. They really do believe that we are agents of satan and that they will be vindicated.

Semi-off topic--I got a call yesterday from some fundie who told me that he was working for an organization that wanted to do something about all the "profanity" in the media. My reply? "No shit? Get the fuck out." And then I hung up. How the hell they got my number in the first place remains a mystery. With all the problems in the world-the war in Iraq, the economy, and a half-dozen other issues I could name right off the top of my head--this is the most important thing that these fundies can focus on--profanity on television and in films????? What the fuck????
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Well, of course. Even if not religiously motivated, the only reason we
support Israel for secular reasons is to have a foothold in the oil-rich ME. You didn't think we gave a rat's ass about them, did you? They use us in the same manner. We are their protector in the ME.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
17. Makes one wonder if we the people have chosen wisely for most surely
we have gotten the government we so richly deserve, for good or bad, for we all knew or should have known what's coming because almost all of the blueprint had been lain out before our eyes.
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AmandaRuth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
18. and the CEO's who benefit are pulling the strings from behind the scenes -
laughing at us (and the fundys) from their walled gated communities -riding this all the way to the bank.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
19. 4 more years!
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GoSolar Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
20. I remember speaking with
a co-worker in New Orleans in the 1980's. He is a white guy who felt that he was unfairly bypassed for promotions in favor of women/minorities. He went from being good-natured to a sort of rabid Rush dittohead.

I was mentioning some environmental issues such as the snowy owl conservation, and how we need to protect them. He was unwilling to listen to anything I had to say. He did mention all the Repub talking points: jobs over owls, people over nature, science will rescue us, blah, blah. But then, as his last argument, he mentioned the Rapture thing.

It's not just that these folks are uninformed and unaware, but that they are so closed-minded that it is almost impossible to educate them in any way. They certainly have no interest in learning any more than they think they "know".

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
21. I think we should put it to Bush relentlessly!
Edited on Tue Dec-14-04 11:02 AM by IMModerate
If this is an important issue with the fundies, Bush should be called on to go on record as for it or against it. It would break up the alliance between fundies and neocons.

--IMM
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
23. And this madness all starts from forcing everybody to pay for nativity
scenes on courthouse lawns.

Pretty insidious shit these fuckers have pulled on America.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. I'm not so sure I want to live in a "Christian America"...
Not a place where our Army is constantly invading some country with Resources, and getting their asses kicked because our Prize specimen of a Secretary of WAR is trying to do it on the cheap, a place where the air stinks, and rich people (and poor people who haven't had their credit implosion yet) ride around in 4-ton "Patriot-Mobiles", mouthing quotes from the lastest "left Behind" book...

A country where everything is in short supply (what was that shit about "God will Provide"?) except for Teeee-Veee preachers telling "The Faithful" that GAWD is with-holding his favour because there are STILL "un-believers" loose in the land....

And finally, the knock on the door and the asshole in full SS harness asking "Why was your truck in the driveway this morning? It's Sunday. You DID walk to church, RIGHT???"

And you wonder why I'm such a hard-ass on religion?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm a Christian, and I don't want to live in a "Christian" America, either
When the Ayatollah Khomeini took over in Iran, all the liberal Muslims had no choice but to adapt or leave.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Now that's a cheerful perspective....
Khomeini...He rose to power after our Puppet Pahlavi was deposed. Yeah, I see that, Bush did promise to "clean up" after the nasty decadent Democrats, didn't he?

We're ALL gonna have to Adapt or Die, aren't we?

Just what IS the attraction of this "Left Behind Religion", anyway? The ability to hide behind "god" while you do evil shit? Childish. About like Bill Keane's "Not Me" character...I'm at a loss. I don't understand it, and that pisses me off.

In fact, I think I do get it. I KNOW I have heard someone someplace tell me "Look, I don't care if you're pissed off at me for tellin' ya you're going to Hell, but I'm just the MESSENGER! It's GAWD who's telling you to straighten up or burn, I'm just the delivery boy!"

"I didn't come up with the idea to cut down this forest on my own, GAWD told me the wood was for MY use!"

Crunch all you want.....
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
28. End-Times
I wish people would get it in their heads that there is NO MAN on the face of this earth who can speed up the second coming of our Lord and Savior, or speed up the Rapture.

Of that day and hour, only our Father in Heaven knows.

Secondly, and most importantly, there are end-time events which are outlined in the Bible, that must be fulfilled. And they will be fulfilled no matter who is President. You can have the most bleeding heart liberal as President of the United States, and the end-times could happen while that person is President. They won't be happening BECAUSE that person is President; they will be happening because they are events ordained by God.

But again, no one on the face of this earth can speed up the end times. It is not up to us. What is up to us is if we are ready for those end times, spiritually.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. That's the problem with eschatological and Rapture-based ideas in general
The Bible is all over the map about the topic, and since different denominations pick and choose which Scriptures to emphasize and which to downplay (or to ignore or exclude altogether), you inevitably wind up with mutations on the topic that are outright dangerous, such as the Left Behinders currently taking active steps to "assist" in bringing about the Rapture as they see it. This was a topic we discussed in my church when I was growing up, and we recognized that not only can one not say anything about the mind of the Lord on the topic of the Rapture and End Times considerations in general; we can't even be entirely sure what the Scriptures are saying one way or another.

In fact, one scholar who commented on the topic made a pretty good case that the apocalyptic verses cited in Isaiah, Revelations, Daniel, and some other books were essentially coded messages among various groups-- some of them genuinely religious, others more along the lines of political resistance organizations-- about hopes and strategies for freedom from Roman rule. The post-Millenialist interpretation actually states that the End Times events depicted in the Bible have already occurred, because in fact those verses had a metaphorical nature to begin with, and the Armageddon referred to there took place with either (1) the fall of the Western Roman Empire or (2) the fall of the anti-Christian imperial regime in Rome and the rise of Emperor Constantine. (Usually the latter is cited in this regard.)

We also have to remember that there's a lot of incongruity not only between OT and NT, but also among the Gospels and between the Gospels and the other epistles and books in the NT. Recall that Martin Luther and some of the other Protestant reformers excluded the Book of Revelations of St. John the Divine entirely from their versions of the Bible, and thus e.g. Lutherans and Methodists have a very different take on the eschatological ideas than most evangelicals here in the USA. In fact, both Christian and secular scholars alike have regarded this book and St. John of Patmos himself with an at best guarded suspicion. Many have gone so far as to say that John himself was a hack outright, and the original Greek version of Revelations is downright awful, chock-full of grammatical errors and loopy logic that can be only partly attributed to the "coded message" hypothesis-- John of Patmos seems to have been a rather sloppy thinker and a poor writer in the opinions of many Biblical scholars.

In any case, the radical ideas of John Darby and the Dispensationalists, their description of the Rapture, and the centrality with which they regard it-- Hal Lindsey, Tim Lahaye, and the fans of Left Behind are the spiritual descendants of Darby here in the USA-- were and still are regarded as nothing less than apostasy in the minds of mainstream Christian sects. Even if you don't read the arcane journals of the Biblical scholars, it's obvious that at least some of the text of Isaiah, Revelations, Luke, Daniel, and Paul's epistles are written metaphorically, with the eschatological notions linked to some metamorphosis in the kindgoms and societies on earth, political or otherwise. Thus the very essence of those beliefs is constant change and reinterpretation. Those writings were never, ever intended to be construed in the rigid, dogmatic, ultra-violent, hateful manner which the Left Behinders adopted. For that matter, any claim to a literal reading of the Bible is fraught with peril-- the Bible after all has numerous passages that justify slavery, advocate offensive war, prescribe outmoded demands for crop production, and otherwise contradict each other. Even the most devout Biblical scholars recognize that the books in the Bible were unavoidably documents of their times, written by many authors, and that some extent of subjective interpretation is inevitable. Thus the exclusivity and rigid dogma of the Left Behinders and extreme Dispensationalists are both morally and intellectually reprehensible.

The problem, of course, is that the variability of this interpretation has not stopped the Left Behinders from asserting their exclusive rectitude, and it doesn't take too many leaps in logic to realize that with logical sloppiness and a lack of mental discipline, the Dispensationalists would drift over into a belief that not only is the Rapture soon coming, but that <b>they are obligated to take pro-active, war-like steps to pave the way for it</b>. Since so many of these people hold the reins of power, their belief system has become positively dangerous for the rest of us in the USA. They cannot be convinced away from their views-- when they believe that they're upheld by divine rectitude, no appeals, logical or emotional, can convince them otherwise. And like many bloody aggressors throughout history, their belief that they (and they alone) are following the path of rectitude, and that everyone else is wrong and in disfavor with God and God's plans, has convinced them that they can perpetrate all manner of brutal crimes against humanity and the environment and yet still be "in the right." Thus even if the US winds up slaughtering 10 million people in Iraq and the (probably coming soon to a recruiting office near you) war with Iran, this won't matter in the minds of the Dispensationalists-- our army would simply be fulfilling God's plans. Even if we provoke a massive Mideast war, no big deal-- that's supposed to take place. Ditto for the environmental degradation with which I started this thread.

As usual the media royally screws things up and misinterprets the true range and danger of this movement, and the conflicts with which its members are involved. People in the media like to point fingers and giggle at the beliefs of the extreme Dispensationalists which they don't understand, failing entirely to realize the real-world, bloody impact their beliefs are already having. Furthermore, the media stupidly equates the Dispensationalists with Christians in general, when in fact many of the most vociferous critics of the Left Behinders have been other Christian denominations. The reason isn't too tough to figure out-- Hal Lindsey, Tim Lahaye, and their ilk are doing tremendous damage to Christianity in general by giving us such a bad name and misrepresenting the tenets we hold dear. My own church and many others like it used to have thriving missionary movements in Africa and Asia, and they've all suffered because people in those poor countries increasingly associate American Christianity with the oppressive, ultra-violent ideas of Left Behind. Jesus is turned into a bloodthirsty, intolerant, hate-filled military leader in Left Behind and the many other texts like it that are springing up, which for obvious reasons is a major turn-off in places that for, historical reasons (e.g. past European colonization), recoil from such an oppressive belief system. Africa e.g. is increasingly becoming a Muslim continent, even in the southern African countries that have had a long tradition of Catholicism and Anglicanism. Unless we can very unequivocally debunk the Dispensationalists' militaristic, ultra-belligerent arguments, and strongly reemphasize the broad-based love of humanity and nature and the sense of personal responsibility that Christianity has long emphasized, we will lose our faith to the radicals, who will redefine it with their toxic rhetoric. We can't allow this to proceed.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Rapture and End Times
I believe in the Rapture, and I also believe in the 2nd glorious coming of Christ to this Earth.

I just wantd to make the point that no one here on earth can help speed up the end times, it is up to the Father in Heaven when those events will occur.

I believe we need to go by 'what thus saith the Lord" on the matter.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. Wonderful post.
And worth the read. Well thought out and said better than I could.

I have so much disdain for the fundies and "born agains" that it precludes my discussing the dangers coherently... Possibly because I really have trouble believing that so many are so stupid... Or so bereft of hope that they latch on to such drivel and transfer their hopelessness into hatred of others.

Cheers, Sir or Ma'am.

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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. Somebody is an overachiever
Excellent post.

For a thorough, intro-level discussion, John Shelby Spong is a good place to start. He's a best selling Episcopal Bishop and author of "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism."
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IHeart1993 Donating Member (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. Whatever happened to protecting
God's Green Earth?
How about the Circle of Life. Ironically, these "pro-lifers" want to destroy all life.
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
41. Well,
Real Christians look at protecting the earth as good stewardship of the gift that god gave us; however, these aren't real Christians. They rationalize their irresponsibility by saying that god gave us the earth to do with what we wanted. Really, that's just a cover-up for their real religion: Capitalism.
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
42. Welcome to DU IHeart1993!
I almost forgot to say hi. :hi:
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IHeart1993 Donating Member (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
30. Whatever happened to protecting
God's Green Earth?
How about the Circle of Life. Ironically, these "pro-lifers" want to destroy all life.
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Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
35. this is nothing new
I first learned about this in 1980 when Reagan was elected and Watt was appointed.

This is the reason I vowed to never EVER vote for anything other than people trying to put Republicans out of power.

This is the #1 reason why these people are dangerous to the entire world.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
36. Muddy Waters Guitar, welcome to DU!
:hi:
I'm seriously into the blues myself.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
39. Another kool-aid drinking cult following the next comet to heaven.
America has been taken over by lunatics.

Seriously.
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