Are we a Team or just sore losers?

[secedeeconomically]

I mean the collective team under the democratic umbrella, its wise to fight internally after we took one in the chin? I mean, to use a football analogy, we lost the last 2 quarters and its half time. And instead of regrouping and discussing a winning strategy, we attack the starting team, the ones who got us this far. Lets face it boys and girls, we are the bench warms. We sit back and just bitch and moan. Maybe we should do less attacking and more working as a team.

Just my two cents.

[nickshepDEM]

1. I feel the same way.

I feel had we won the election everybody would be happy as shit. Since we lost some are bitching and moaning and looking for alternative party's. Thats bullshit. Its like being a FRONT RUNNER in sports. Since the Yankees lost this year you wanna be a Red Sox fan. Fuck that. We need to get our shit together and get ready for '06 and '08. This includes fighting voter suppresion and fraud. If we take big loses in '06 and '08 we could be in for a long ride through hell. FDR, Kennedy, and Truman are probably spinning in their graves right now. My philosophy is, "your either with us or your against us." You choose.

[secedeeconomically]

3. exactly. and by the way, Red Soxs rule baby lol

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gumby]

4. "Our Team" didn't loose anything.

"We" didn't loose ANY quarters. "We" WON every one.

Your analogy is not applicable.

What everyone is fighting about, IMHO, is whether to actually recognize that this Nation has in fact become "Nazi."

As, IMHO, this Nation is now officially "Nazi"; therefore, there is NO political remedy. It naturally follows that the arguments about how to proceed will be intense.

You seem to be arguing some 'team strategy' that is no longer viable in a murderous, totalitarian, theocratic situation.

[secedeeconomically]

10. Ok you maybe you and I aren’t part of the same team lol

Seriously, we can argue the fact that we "won the elections" all day. However, reality is a bitch my friend. A certain dick head will be sworn in January and there is absolutely nothing that will change that. To return to my original analogy, we got some very bad penalties against us. But instead of whining lets work to change the roles towards out favor as best as possible. I'm not saying you should be agree, I’m saying be pissed very pissed, but fragmenting will only make it easer for them to slaughter us next time.

[gumby]

20. Well, calling my post "whining"

negates your own argument against "fragmenting," you name caller, you.

Next, if you argue that Gore and Kerry "lost" the "elections" then you indeed aren't on the same team who can't accept "reality."

Being "pissed" is one thing. The question is what does the opposition do when the society has become totalitarian/theocratic?

Perhaps you have been unaware of the very long list of Bush detractors being intimidated, loosing their jobs, being shot at demonstrations, art exhibits being shut down, books being burned, authors..journalists...Senators... suddenly being DEAD?????

So, go on with your ignorant, or freeper inspired call for unity because there is NO "next time." Stealing TWO elections is not some sports analogy, it is the definition of totalitarianism.

Perhaps that "reality" escaped you?

[secedeeconomically]

24. I’m not questioning you argument that the elections where lost unfairly

My argument with you is whether or not remaining with the Democratic Party will bring along the changes that you and frankly I wish for. Anger is good, but it needs to be primarily channeled toward the enemy (i.e. Bush and the right). We need to work with in the current democratic structure, in my opinions to realize any real change. Though a revolution by the barrel of a gun sounds appealing, it most likely won’t work. They just got bigger guns these days J

[annabanana]

25. Umm"lost unfairly"?, try stolen.....

When this is properly investigated all post-election recriminations will evaporaate.

[m berst]

36. can we stop whining about "whining?"

Where is this whining so many are talking about? What makes the post you are resonding to whining? I suspect it is a sneaky way to discredit the person rather than respond to their message. This word has a life of its own and is popping up on half of the threads. I think it is derogatory and unncessary.

[KarenS]

16. I totally agree with your statements, Gumby,,,,

I am sad & mad & scared all at the same time!!

By the time the rest of the good people in this country wake-up, it will be too late.

This doesn't mean I won't fight, give energy or funds to try to get this regime changed,,,, I just don't think they will go without a huge 'event',,,,,

I am crazy with this.



:nuke:

[nascarblue]

17. Totally agree with you Karen.. the problem is...

... That I don't have a ton of faith in the new generation. Too much high tech distractions, too much apathy.

Compared to the early 70's, there's just too many distractions that breed apathy. WHen I tell people about what's going on in Ohio for example, they think I'm nuts... then I send them articles and videos of the hearings and they freak out. They can't believe it. So even though we have cable TV, and 400 stations, we seem to be getting less and less truth. It really is an Orwell world we're living in. Seems like just to prove your point on political corruption, you have to jump through hoops and deflect taunts of being a conspiracy theorist.

[Undercover Owl]

5. I agree we might be sore losers but

Republicans are sore winners! Republicans keep on whining and acting like big babies, even after the outcome of this "election".

[knight_of_the_star]

6. Defeat teaches more than victory

Because when you win you really don't take a long, hard look at how you did. When you lose, EVERYTHING is under scrutiny.

[gumby]

8. Neither Gore nor Kerry "lost"

so?

Fascism can't be changed by a silly "election."

[manic expression]

7. No...it doesn't work that way

The BASE is what powers the party. We are the players and the team, while the DLCers (and others) are the greedy, rich owners who are trying to sell and move the team to another city. To think that the grassroots activists are nothing but "bench warmers" and Daschle and his kin are the "starting team" is absolutely ridiculous and wrong. WE need to play the game the way it needs to be played. End of story.

[secedeeconomically]

11. Well the last time I checked

Daschle was sitting in Washington voting (not for long though) and you my friend where?

[manic expression]

13. I was in NYC

protesting what Bush and his fellow criminals were doing to the world. Wow. Daschle was sitting in Washington voting! What, exactly, did he do to stop Bush or fight for anything? Oh, yes: NOTHING!
If that is "the starting bench" (or whatever insipid sports analogy you want to make), then the team has already lost. Get me off the team, because the "starters" are not doing anything to advance anything positive.
Get this: the activists of the party are the ones who give it power. WE ARE THE TEAM. They are the owners, and they are trying to move the team to another city. We cannot let this happen.

[secedeeconomically]

15. Well in reality anyone who votes is part of the team.

and the ones with fat wallets get a really good seat lol

[nascarblue]

19. We all know what happened to Daschle...he got shut up with the...

...anthrax. Funny how we don't hear a peep about those these days huh??

http://www.aztlan.net/starofd.htm

[Sterling]

34. Money?

That is really what seperates your A team from our B team. I think I just stopped funding the A team.

[bvar22]

9. It's not half time.

The Season is OVER!.

Our guys are NOT in the SuperBowl.

Maybe the other Team cheated, but it makes NO Differenc. Our team should have expected them to cheat.

Its time to evaluate the team and the coaches.

I'm ready to FIRE some people.

I don't want to keep losing!

[secedeeconomically]

12. I agree that we should chage a few players but not every person

[Sterling]

35. Not every person?

OK who gets to keep their job on your A team? Who deserves to keep there job?

[CBHagman]

14. We are Will Rogers Democrats.

You remember the quotation: "I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

Seriously, though, I agree with your post and I think your impulses are healthy. Some of what we are doing is just part of the normal grief/self-examination process, and some of it is just eating our own.

[Hotler]

18. I'm on the side that's not ..

going to roll over and kiss their treasonous, thieving butts.

[Rockerdem]

21. We're a little fragmented at the moment

A month ago, we were more in step. Now, some people are creating dissension. We need to step back in time and remember what unity was like.

[Osamasux]

22. I'm focused on the mid term elections

We need to work on keeping what we have and taking more. Everyone should be looking at who in their state is vulnerable. Volunteer, contribute, raise funds, organize. Write one letter a month to each of your local and regional papers.

History teaches that Representatives are at their most vulnerable at the end of their first terms. There will be quite a few first term republicans who should be taking heat in the press for the next two years. Mid term elections generally have low voter turnout. If we get out the vote in 2006, we can make significant inroads.

[annabanana]

27. Absolutely agree with you!

Has everyone here checked in with their locals? Any "little" elections coming up in your town? The vote-theft matrix won't be as active during midterms.

[Chicago Democrat]

23. I think they should have Debate Gladiatorial Games, ON TV

and have people call in to see who wins...

Noam Chomsky vs Andrew Sullivan
Dennis Kucinich vs Peter Beinart


The viewer call in and see who wins.. Loser gives up job, Winner gets to appoint successor.

[secedeeconomically]

26. The idea of Kucinich in a gladiator skirt just brings chill sup my spine

[eridani]

33. You won't be able to get past the big crowd--

--of women with plates of vegan brownies and gallons of sandalwood massage oil. Give up, already! ;-)

[Walt Starr]

28. Sorry, we just lost our last shot at a playoff birth

Season is over.

And now the starters (DLC, Pelosi, Reid) are mostly wanting to join the other team. The backup quarterback (Dean) is pretty much the only one calling them on their bullshit.

[Geek_Girl]

29. I'm all for team Work

But the problem is not with the grass roots. It's with the DLC politicians who want to purge the grass roots because we're not "right enough" so until the DLC backs off. I'll be working hard to purge them even if it means working with the Evil GOP and the end of the democratic party. :nuke:

[itzamirakul]

30. The DNC/DLC did absolutely

NOTHING to help us win this election and now they are trying to claim credit for what the activists did. Why? They want to keep their hands in TWO pockets. One hand in the pockets of the corporations and the other hand in the pockets of the activists. I am totally disgusted with them and I will no longer support ANY of them.. They ALL need to go...straight to hell! If there is one thing I cannot stand it is someone who benefits from someone else's work and then refuses to give credit where credit is due. There is NOTHING the DLC can do to win back my support!

And you want us to UNIFY under these losers? The DLC=Democratic LOSERS Council.

[leftofthedial]

31. we're a sore team of losers

I'm tired of sitting on the bench and watching the political equivalent of the 1919 Chicago "Black Sox" throw the series.

what the Dem party has been trying hasn't worked. Vote fraud is part of the landscape and they did nothing about it. They don't behave like an opposition party. They roll over and play dead on Cheney's command.

But we should just shut up about all that and be good "team" players?

Not me pal.

[secedeeconomically]

32. I never said to "shut up"

I do agree that the DLC is attempting to model the party after Tony Blares New Labor. However at the end that just won’t work here in the states.