God spoke to me today

[Democracy Died 2004]

and told me that * is the Anti-Christ and we should try to defeat him at all costs. In my vision I saw that * will take us to global war and the land will run red with blood. Then God showed me the true nature of the beast and it was *. The occasional blotches that appear on * are the infamous Mark of the Beast.

Yes this is true. I will have more later when I have another vision from God.

[JHB]

1. Sorry, you have no "special link"...

...But get your own TV studio and disciple squad like Pat Robertson does, and you'll be amazed at how many people take you seriously.

[Democracy Died 2004]

6. You mean to tell me that * has a special link

and it is too far fetched to believe i do also?

[JHB]

19. Of Course...

Republicans ALWAYS have a "special link". They say so!

How could they lie about that? :evilgrin:


(hmmm, let's see. How?: standing up. with a stright face. eight ways to Sunday. etc., etc. etc.)

[DireStrike]

2. You forgot to ask for money

Thats the way people can tell that you're serious.

[Democracy Died 2004]

4. God has no use for money

just spreading his gospel.

[indigobusiness]

5. That's what convinced me he is bogus.

Major flaw in the equation.

[andyhappy]

8. LOL n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

3. nice...

there is just that little problem with scripture defining the anti-christ...must have been God's brother Bob pulling your leg...

Until Bush starts performing miracles, raises himself from the dead and claims to be God...well, he is just a man...

theProdigal

[shadowknows69]

9. miracles can be a very subjective thing

for all we know it was * that made mother mary show up on that grilled cheese sandwich. as far as the death and resurrection thing. I don't think the anti-christ's handlers would let the public see that. It would tip off the smarter Revelations watchers. As far as claiming to be God? Also subjective. Personally I thought he actually said it in a couple speeches, or at least hinted to it with a wink and a smirk.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

13. my rebuttal

the combination of heat and butter distribution caused the appearance of Mary in the grilled cheese

the Anti-Christ needs his resurrection to be public so that he can be seen as God

He has not yet called for worship of himself and the claim of divinity would be very plain

Not that any of this matters...just tought it would be fun to talk about grilled cheese sandwiches as lunch is drawing nigh and I could use something resembling nutrition.

theProdigal

[spanone]

62. I always knew that if the Virgin Mary made a comeback appearance

it would be on a grilled cheese sandwich. Just always had a hunch.

[Lerkfish]

14. hmmm...I don't recall those things being required of the antichrist.

can you point me to the scriptures that say that?

IIRC, he only has to rule with an iron hand, rebuild the temple, and make people have the mark of the beast. I do not recall any "miracle" requirements.

I'll have to do some research and get back to you, though.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. the big one is the resurrection from a fatal wound

don't remember WHERE exactly it is...but it is there...and the whole temple thing is a LONG way off if ever...

theProdigal

[Lerkfish]

16. sorry, but I don't think so.

Youreprobably referring to 13:1-4:

-----
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up outof the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy

And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death: and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the bast? who is able to make war with him?
--------

the problem here is that this is HIGHLY allegorical imagery. Scholars have interpreted the ten heads to be ten kingdoms, for one possible example. So, a deadly wound to one of the heads could be a nation almost destroyed but rebuilt again.

Also note it does not say the beast died, but rather suffered a wound that was healed.

You're in murky waters here because Revelations is highly interpretable precisely because of its highly allegorical and vivid metaphorical imagery...attempting to slap an absolute interpretation on it is fraught with pitfalls.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. while i agree with you on the allegory

i find it funny that people use this allegory in an attempt to deny someone's identity of the AntiChrist or attest to someone's identity of the AntiChrist. This is all so funny...one says it's not him (me) and someone says it is (the original poster) and people come here to argue about it. It is a waste of bandwidth and I should stop arguing with these people who would probably be labeled as insane for hearing voices...and then I could be labeled as insane for arguing with the insane...fun, aye?

theProdigal

[Lerkfish]

21. you're calling me insane?

interesting.

no, I'm just correcting a misconception on your part as to what the book actually says.
You were trying to say Bush COULDN"T be the antichrist because he didn't raise himself from the dead, and I was pointing out that revelations doesn't really say that, as far as I know.

If that makes me insane, then at least I'm trying to be insanely ACCURATE.

:)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. NO NO NO NO

definitely not...the original poster and myself are aparently the insane ones...they hear from God and then I argue with them about it...

And as far as accuracy is concerned...being accurate with 2000 year old allegories that have been translated out of their original language would be tough for anyone...you, me, anyone...but then again maybe you read hebrew and aramaic and greek...I sure as heck don't...as is obvious by our misunderstanding I cannot even write properly in my native tongue...

theProdigal

[bloom]

23. psychologists etc. tolerate belief in voices/visions

if it's "Christianity". It's just when you make up your own religion that they get worried. Seriously.

Or if you think you are God/Jesus - that is a no no, also.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. my psychological training is limited

the stuff i read in my library...but i believe you. i personally think that just about anyone who 'hears' from God to be just a slight bit cracked...but it looks as if psychologists would disagree...

theProdigal

[msmcghee]

42. There's justification for that . .

. . people will do all sorts of seemingly insane things - to gain membership and acceptance within an approved social group (such as Christianity) in the US).

They will say they believe in mythical stories of virgin births and people rising from the dead - and faces of saints appearing in grilled cheese sandwiches. They'll say that their God speaks to them and tells them to do strange things like kill their children - or Arabs.

Psychologists implicitly understand that the "social group acceptance" motive is very powerful and capable of causing that behavior. Even a casual look at human nature or history shows that to be true.

But, take away the "social group acceptance" motive - and such behavior becomes very suspect.

i.e. If you have a strong need for acceptance by an approved group in society, almost any form of insanity is condoned.

If you do those things but have no need for group acceptance you are obviously insane. (Heller's Catch 22)

Even worse, if you show no signs of insanity such as those listed above - you are a heretic and you must be stoned. At least I hope so.

:hippie:

[Lerkfish]

29. LOL! no problemo...

glad we got that ironed out.

[Democracy Died 2004]

31. God told me I was sane n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. gooood...

that makes me feel better...

theProdigal

[bloom]

24. You know, Lerkfish

that all sounds an awful lot like today...

"....And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the bast? who is able to make war with him?"

Of course the writer could have been referring to Rome way back when also.

Of course - there are probably a lot of similarities.

[Lerkfish]

33. right...

its those things that convince me moreso:

if you look past the minutiae, the gist of the antichrist is to fool the elect, achieve world domination through superior arms, rule with an iron rod, and basically make life miserable for everyone. Some of the elect (christians or jews) will be FOOLED into thinking him a righteous leader, when in fact, he'll be completely corrupt.

in the broad strokes, he's the antichrist-wannabe who just might make it if we don't stop him.

[Samantha]

75. I thought it was a miracle he "won" the 2004 election

2000 was simply a mirage. 2004 was definitely a miracle. And you see it how .... ?

[TexasChick]

76. Right. And, isn't the Rapture suppose to take place before the

appearance of the AntiChrist? Until we see millions disappear on Earth, planes falling from the sky, cars crashing because of bodies disappearing, etc. it's safe to assume that the Chimp is not the AntiChrist.


DISCLAIMER: I could be wrong about this.

[bloom]

7. What does he think about:

Rumsfeld and Cheney? They have been pulling this crap over a span of nearly 30 years.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1207-26.htm

[shadowknows69]

10. well...

if according to the bible there's a holy trinity than there could be an unholy trinity too. damien had his people.

[shadowknows69]

11. you might want to ask God

how we go about beating him. just a thought. is God going to send some crazy priest with the daggers like in the omen? or do we have to be more subtle. Not trying to tell the big G his job or anything but it's vital info.

[Mike Niendorff]

12. You misspelled "dog".

MDN

[Democracy Died 2004]

32. Thou shalt not make fun

of my god.

[Lerkfish]

40. too late...

..I think he just did.

but seriously, you have to realize that many people will be FOOLED by the antichrist, so if not everyone buys into what you're saying, that's "par for the course".

and, I think God is powerful enough to stand up for himself against ridicule.

I think some people, myself included, are not willing to AUTOMATICALLY believe someone they don't know who posts on a message board as a prophet, even if the message makes some sense, right?

You have to give people a little slack and allow for some healthy skepticism.

Personally, I can completely agree that Bush is the antichrist. I'm not completely convinced, though, that you got that directly from God, and I'm not sure I have to be.

The overall point is that Bush is absolutely evil, and certainly dangerous to the world and to the US...whether he's the antichrist or not. Stopping him would be a good thing, no matter the originating motivation.

[Democracy Died 2004]

46. God will smite him for

making fun of me. His true and only prophet.

[Lerkfish]

48. well, if so, that's God's business, not yours.

[Democracy Died 2004]

50. God just told me he doesn't think you're

funny. And also to not bet on the ponies.< not sure what God meant about that>

[Lerkfish]

51. Well, that's good because 1. I'm not a comedian and 2. i don't bet on the

ponies.

so there ya go.

;)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

53. sounds like his god has you figured out

you better watch it...

;)

tP

[Lerkfish]

54. oh well, I haven't been "smited" in a long while...

;)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

55. maybe he meant 'smitten'

any new love interests???

tP

[Lerkfish]

56. well, my wife would probably have something to say about that...

that something would be along the lines of "cremation or burial"?

:)

[ComerPerro]

17. That's funny, because God spoke to me too

He told me that Bush was in fact evil, and that anyone who supports Bush will be sent straight to hell.

Then he said that everyone should give me money.

[DireStrike]

20. I am intrigued by your assertions

and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. How much?

[devinsgram]

26. I' m not sure I believe everything you posted,

but I most definitely believe * is the anti-Christ.

[Lerkfish]

28. yes, as I've stated, if * is NOT the antichrist, he'll do until

the real one steps up.

[DerekG]

27. If you're not being sarcastic, perhaps you can clarify

Was this a dream or something?

[Democracy Died 2004]

30. No the lord god spoke to me

in a vision.

[Lerkfish]

34. in that case, the thing that confuses me is..

that prophecy appears to say he WILL prevail, for a time. So, I don't understand why God would ask us to stop him, wouldn't that be subverting prophecy?

what's the advantage in that?

What would make MORE sense is if God told you to warn us to not FOLLOW him, rather than exhort us to STOP him.

Next vision, you might want to ask him about that.

[Democracy Died 2004]

35. God has spoken

no other explanation is needed.

[Lerkfish]

36. well, sure, YOU don't need explanation because you heard from him

direct...but the rest of us, see, are getting this secondhand, so we need more clarification.

[crimson333]

38. can't be

The anti-christ is suppossed to bring peace during the first 3 1/2 years he is on the scene and then destruction after he reveals his true idenity for the next 3 1/2 years.

:evilgrin:

[Lerkfish]

39. again, I have to ask where you got that from?

the way I recall it, revelations just says he'll rule with a rod of iron....that might only mean he dominates, not that he achieves that domination through peaceful means.
If you could point out the scripture that says that, it would help me verify what you're saying.

[crimson333]

41. I got it from all my years in the assembly of God church

that I no longer attend

and all the end times preachers of course:-)

[Lerkfish]

43. ah...well, they've strayed from the text...

which does not surprise me.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

45. the problem with many of these eschatological debates is

that there are a couple of differing versions of the endtimes in just one bible...Daniel and Revelation are a difficult mix but they both purport to describe the same time period and use some of the same terminology. Ask preachers/end-timers why they say this or that and they will usually have some reference at their fingertips that backs up their assertion...if ever-so-slightly...otherwise the BIG ones, like the early reign of peace and the huge statue of the beast et al would not survive...

theProdigal

OnEdit : whoops...title line sounded like a debate on the study of scat without the 'h'

[Lerkfish]

47. personally, I think the point gets lost in the shuffle...

I think the overabundant fixation on the endtimes overlooks the point that God wants us to live a good life.
For some religious factions, they slaver over the terror of the endtimes to frighten their congregations into servitude to their own brand of interpretation about it, or worse, simply frighten them with no indication how to deal with the endtimes.
Others like to prattle on with great self-righteousness about how they're going to be raptured and avoid the worst of the horror that the heathens will have to endure...almost with an avaristic gleam in their eyes anticipating mocking those left behind.

but the real point of revelations is the admonitions to the churches in the beginning..that they have left their first love...the love of God and the love of their neighbor, and gotten sidetracked in various pitfalls of avarice, pride and hubris and have left behind humility, service, love and forgiveness.

The allegorical imagery of revelations is a treacle well of temptation to avoid the real issue: we all need to live our lives as good servants, mindful that the end might come as a thief in the night, so that WHENEVER it comes, we would be prepared, having lived a good and faithful life.

Any church, cult or denomination that spends more time with the horror of revelations instead of the redemption of living a good life has seriously missed the whole point.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. well-put n/t

[crimson333]

52. Thats one of the reasons I left that church

I never saw the big deal in end times teaching. If you live a good life then it doesn't matter when the end time comes, so why be afraid? You will always be ready.


of course you state it better than me

[adigal]

44. My son went to wacky Christian school

and they believe that when Israel takes over a part of the world, God will take all of the fundies up to heaven in their bodies, alive, and leave us suckers down here to fight the anti-Christ people. The battle will go on for 7 years, and the anti-Christs will have some sort of sign, such as a computer chip in their arm or something - not a 666. After we beat the bad guys, the fundies and Jesus will come down here and reign for 1000 years. Then the end of the world will come.

I don't know Bushie fits into this insanity. And I took my son out of that school.

[Pegleg Thd]

57. After reading all of your comments

I am reminded of what a Bible Thumper told me last weekend after I told him of my mother's death. He said that 4 years from now we will realize that the dead have been the "lucky" ones as the rest of us will have been drug thru hell by the bush cabal.

[keischin]

77. Sometimes I think prophets are just horny n/t

[Old Mouse]

58. describe your vision?

[BonjourUSA]

59. is God male or female ?

with a long beard or with generous breath ?

Keep your camera close to you !!

[Democracy Died 2004]

60. I wasn't looking at genitalia

in my vision.

[BonjourUSA]

63. White, Black, Asian.... Or multicolored ??

[Democracy Died 2004]

65. As everyone knows

you can not look upon the face of God. So I wouldn't know.

[BonjourUSA]

66. What did you see ????

You didn't see (his?, her)? sex, you didn't see (his? her?) race.... And the voice ? Because (he? she?) spoke to you !

Ask (him, her) to come back, you need a best vision.

[spanone]

61. Okie Dokie

[sarcasmo]

64. When God speaks to Chimpy again this is how it will go.

If God spoke to Chimpy and told him to invade Iraq, then what will he say when he invades Iran? The talk will go like this.

Chimpy: Hello God
God: Chimpy I want you to invade Iran in the name of Christianity
Chimpy: but God were not done with Iraq or the Afghan warlords, should I fire Rummy?
God: keep Rummy Chimpy, he is the perfect tool
Chimpy: Thanks God, this is the best Propaganda I could have ever asked for.


Sarcasm, of course
so calm down churches

[Old Mouse]

67. please describe the vision

[DerekG]

68. Kick

Expound on your vision, please.

[Senator Lamb]

69. End Times are near

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=367877

it seems * will either be the last or second to last President.

[mmonk]

70. You too, eh?

[DARE to HOPE]

71. Well, the Pope thinks * is the anti-christ, too...

Martin Luther, on the other hand (yes, they had the same discussions in the 15th c) said that if he thought the world was going to end tomorrow, he would still plant a tree today.

Sounds very environmentally conscious. :-) That is the thing I keep thinking about--how will the planet sustain us, especially with all the crazy weapons * is throwing around.

All I know is, Wednesday's Advent worship was so vivid, and so transcendent, my fear left me, and I felt deeply that everything was in His hands, whether Bush is inaugurated or not, and that the counting will go on.

[hollowdweller]

72. would Bush's brain damage from alcohol be the head wound in Revalations

[superconnected]

73. He spoke to me too

He said he has no idea what to do with the Republicans.

I said I didn't either.

He said he was taking a break for a while because he couldn't stand to watch. Apparently any intervention he does would obliterate them. He's working on his temper... Course he said when they die, he doesn't think he'll be able to hold back.

[Mabeline]

74. A vision you say, about somethng as trivial as Bush*...

last time He spoke to me, I was saved from an accident.