Tomasky and Conason dismissing Dean as DNC chair on O'Franken

[ProfessorPlum]

What the hell?

Dean is very very good on TV (compared to most TV Democratic pundits), is a proven fundraiser, understands that framing the argument is the problem with Dems, has real balls, and WANTS the job!!

Why oh why oh why can't Democrats ever figure out what would be good for them?

Two callers in a row endorsed Dean, said the people of the Democratic party want him.

Tomasky dismissed Dean as too "divisive" and said flat out Dean won't get it. They discussed a bunch of no-name nobodies I'd never heard of as possibilities.

(Conason also said Kerry raised more $ than Dean "in the end". Well, sure, when Kerry was the only Democrat in the race)

I like Kerry a lot, but what is with the fear of Dean? Dean stopped throwing bombs at the Dems as soon as he stopped running for the nomination, and has been carrying water for them, hard, ever since.

Does not compute.

[UdoKier]

1. Problem is he IS divisive

He divides democrats from non-democrats. A lot of people want to keep the quasi-repubs in the party.

I'm a bit surprised Conason would be opposed to Dean, though.

[Tacos al Carbon]

2. Exactly what I was about to say

Whatever you think of Dean, if there's one thing that the primaries and the posts on this board indicate, it's that he does not unite the party but, rather, defines the rift in it. A lot of people who sincerely consider themselves Democrats would not follow Dean. Much of the party is looking for a uniter that will allow the liberal and the moderate elements of the party to work together. Dean has burned a lot of bridges.

[ProfessorPlum]

8. "burned a lot of bridges"

is one way to look at it. I think he was issuing a wake up call to the slumbering Democratic party.

And after he conceded the nomination, he worked like a dog for Kerry. What more do people want?

[UdoKier]

9. I totally disagree. Dean IS a moderate.

He alienates right-wing pigs who are trying to destroy the party like Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller.

I don't know that Dean has many true liberal positions on anything.

People who would support a president like Bush in any way are NOT moderate. They are extreme right-wingers, regardless of a "D" after their name.

[ProfessorPlum]

10. I agree.

Dean is not a liberal - - but, he knows how to fight the GOP on our terms. He seems to be a pragmatist in his decision making process. Reality-based decision making sounds pretty good right now.

[Tacos al Carbon]

11. Whether Dean is a liberal or a moderate

or something else, what matters is perception and the perception is that he represents fringe elements and is at war with the party's center. Perception is especially important when it comes to being party chair. It's the face of the party. Really, little matters besides perception for that position.

Dean won't get the position. No way. He's seen as too much of a threat because of his very loyal following.

[UdoKier]

12. What a crock. 80% of democrats flat-out opposed the war.

Dean didn't even fully oppose it - he opposed the timing and lack of a coalition.

The vast majority of democrats who oppose this filthy war are NOT fringe by any means, nor are those of us who support national health care.

And people who call the most rational positions "fringe" and thus dignify the true far-out extreme right-wing position (support for the war) in doing so really chap my hide.

[SeattleRob]

13. Perceptions?

Represents the "fringe Elements" of the party?

Whose perceptions are you talking about - the DC insiders? The Republicans. Is the party in such a state where rank and file people who are upset at the failed status quo are now "Fringe Elements"? (It's almost the same as the folks who are suspicious of what happened during the last election being called "Dissidents".

[Tacos al Carbon]

14. Dissidents?!?

Jesus Christ, don't flatter yourself.

[SeattleRob]

15. Dissidents

It's not my term. It's the term used by the Associated Press for
people who are fighting voting irregularities:


The dissidents claim there were disparities in vote totals for Democrats, too few voting machines in Democrat-leaning precincts, organized campaigns directing voters to the wrong polling place and confusion over the counting of provisional ballots by voters whose names did not appear in the records at polling places.

Link:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/politics/story/734AF4C1FAFDE96586256F6A001B3A36?OpenDocument&Headline=Electoral+college+voting

[thedevilinthedetails]

17. Nice find SeattleRob

Bump for the morons who think we are fringers!

[ProfessorPlum]

3. I know that a lot of mainstream Dems wanted to shut Dean

out of the presidential nomination . . . and that happened. But what do they want to do with Dean? He seems to be one of the only ones who knows how to frame Democratic principles in a robust, gutsy way, and he's shown he's willing to work his ass off for the party.

And the party can't figure out what to do with him? Personally, I don't think Dean has the TV persona to win the presidency, though I love him. But the Dems can't even see their way to support him as an organizing force?

This party really is afraid of victory. Defeat must be familiar, and comforting.

[Southsideirish]

4. Both are carrying water for Kerry.

[ProfessorPlum]

5. Why would Dean as DNC chair be a problem for Kerry?

It would certainly clear up '08 for him, at the very least.

[blm]

18. Untrue. Kerry and Dean get along fine. In fact, Kerry trusted Dean on the

campaign trail as much as he did his longtime friend, Wes Clark. That says alot about their efforts as a team once the primary was over.

Kerry and Dean understood that they both exaggerated differences between their positions for the primary because they really were never that far apart. They have both been politicians long enough to know what matters and what doesn't in the long run.

I don't think Kerry would be adverse to trusting Dean a the head of the DNC.

[tk2kewl]

6. It might be time to go Green.

:shrug:

If the DNC doesn't' decide that dems need to be a strong and loud opposition party it might be time to move on.

[andyhappy]

7. yeah...

the democrats are trying to figure out how to get the middle of the road vote and in the process are going to completely alientate their base ...ie, people like me!

[Royal Observer]

16. The Chairman doesn't

win or lose elections for the Party. It's the Chairmans job to raise money. Dean has proved he can do it.