Why do people volunteer for the military?

[chookie]

For the most part, being a Woodstock Gen, the guys I know who served either had to go toe to toe with Hitler in the worldwide struggle against murderous fascism, or were drafted into Viet Nam.

I know one kid, son of a friend, who joined before Desert Storm and found himself serving in it, who had joined because of right wing leanings, but primarily because he had no other way to get a post-high school education. (He never saw action and went on to get a degree in petroleum geology in Texas, and now he is a NeoCon.)

I have met a few young soldiers who told me that they signed up (in peace time) for the education they would receive, but who were very straightforward that they dreaded the idea of going to war.

I'm asking this because the son of one of my cousins, who does in fact have the option of having education at least mostly financed by his family, just volunteered for the Air Force. First time EVER in my family anyone ever chose a military career, so this is new to us.

I don't know him much at all. All I know is that he was ROTC all through high school, and wanted to join the military, but at least since his graduation last spring was disuaded from joining by his family, and was in school for a degree in paramedicine. I know his parents are moderate Democrats; I kinda suspect this kid got indoctrinated into glorifying the military thanks to Fox and Rush and Sean, and probably has friends who have close ties to the military, and maybe buys into the September 11 stuff.

Sometimes you hear about people who join because they want to protect their country -- but I always wonder why they don't choose, say, being a fireman, which is in my view surely a heroic and tough a job as soldiering.

Are there some people who simply don't see the pure, unselfish service of those people stateside who risk their lives to keep their communities safe as "macho" enough? Do some people harbor in their hearts a desire to kill, or at least feel as though they want to kill? That killing can be cool?

Anyone who joins up at this point seems to be making a pretty clear political choice.... I won't see this kid until next month, if ever, so don't know if I will get a chance to ask him myself.

I know it is a stupid question, and I am obviously quite ignorant on the subject, but please understand that some of us have managed to never have a soldier in our families (SW PA) -- so why would someone choose to do it now? Or do I know why already?

[kuozzman]

1. I'm not sure about soldiers, but here's how bush feels about war:

http://www2.lib.ku.edu:2950/apdbs/Intl_Photos/views/mini/7563/7563180.jpg

A protester dressed up as U.S. President George W. Bush holds a fake missile during a protest against the president's Canadian visit, in Ottawa Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004.(AP PHOTO/Patrick Doyle)

[enigami]

2. Like the old saying goes..

If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand

[JohnKleeb]

3. Often times they come from poor backgrounds

and the military offers them a future education or some feel like they want to give something back to the country.

[chomskysright]

13. exactly!!!

[GetTheRightVote]

4. My daughter is in the ROTC group at her high school, very scarcy to me

but I thought it would give her some discipline in her life. I have already told her I would kill her myself if she ever, ever thought of joining the military. No kid of mine will do anything under the Bushco. But the ROTC qlorifies the war and soldiers and they brain wash you thru your friends that they are a family, similiar to a gang type of mentality. It remains me of a cult really, so taking my daughter out after this year. They are some very strange people.

[chookie]

11. Yikes

I never had contact with ROTC, but a month in the Civil Air Patrol (in an area notorious for having a "Hitler Youth" CAP) was enough of contact with "military types" for me. (I speak of the cadets -- the officers were okay, as far as I know.) Yeah, it was cultlike -- authoritarian, abusive, idiotic....

Your daughter is lucky she has you to tell her the truth she needs to hear. I just wish I had a chance to have a talk with this kid -- I might not have been able to dissuade him, but I would have told him what he needed to hear before he made this drastic decision.

I can see someone gambling with getting through without being in a war, but it seems that anyone who enlists now has got to understand they are getting themselves into a big mess, right? I am sure they have gotten their recruiters to tell these kids whatever they need to hear to join. Too bad these kids don't know that recruiters have been lying since this, one of the oldest professions, began.

[loveable liberal]

5. theres actually lots of reasons to join...

there are post military benefits like house buying, career choice 'points' on a lot of job applications, medical benefits and paid education. I know a kid who just joined the marines but wont see ground action because he's been accepted into some sort of "intelligence" unit. whatever. He's an eagle scout too. I wont let my boys get near the boy scouts. Wonder if your 2nd cousin was in the scouts......

[Book Lover]

6. Lots of reasons

Soldiering is one of the oldest professions, right up there with prostitution and motherhood. To be a strong defender (as opposed to a arrogant prick) is a noble calling; to use one's strength to fight off those who would invade (as opposed to those who would bully their way into a place just because they can) is a useful job. The problem here today, IMO, is the military machine and how it can be turned out on the whim of the CiC (and the spine-free Congress that handed over that power to the head administrator of the Executive Branch).

I would caution against seeing every firefighter and police officer as a hero, also. Plenty of vainglorious folks in those ranks too...

[chookie]

12. On firefighters

Of course I don't know them all personally, and surely they have the same proportion of assholes in their profession as there is in any other profession. Sure -- as soldiers find themselves serving along career psychopaths, sometimes firemen find arsonists in their ranks -- but these are small rarities.

My point only was -- gee, if you like danger and daring and like protecting people, you might find firefighting extremely fulfilling. Unless the "kill" aspect is factored in, it's not easy to understand why people would pass over this sort of "first responder" profession to be a soldier.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

20. Because we need soldiers, too

Always have, probably always will.

[bloom]

7. I personally know people with quite a spectrum of reasons.

I know two for whom it is a career decision. One went to WestPoint, the other got an engineering degree with ROTC help.

I know one whose family was fairly chaotic and he wanted to kill people.

I know another whose parents had just gotten divorced and it was a way to get control of his own life.

I know another who thought that the country needs him, or something. I'm not so sure what his motivations are - but that is what his mother would say.

[MSgtAF]

8. Some I've come across in 20 years

Some of the reasons, I've come across:
1. Chance to leave backwoods and be independent from folks.
2. Receive technical education not available to them at present time or location.
3. Receive education tuition assistance.
4. See the World.
5. Find direction, self discipline.
6. Be a part of something bigger than themselves.
7. Belong to a group (see above).
8. Decent pay for no experience while being trained.
9. Family tradition.
10. Sense of duty to country.
11. Chance to fly.
12. Chance to blow stuff up.
13. As many different reasons, as there are people who join.

[chookie]

16. Thanks for your comprehensive answer

I think you outlined the major factors. It makes sense...

Thanks for taking the time to outline them so thoughtfully.

[signmike]

18. #8 Decent pay? Please tell me

what the military pays these days. When I was in, '66 -'69, I made $90 a month. We joked about having to earn our 13¢ an hour...

[crimson333]

21. and i can further add

as a military brat, my sister and I were usually on subsidized lunch programs in off base schools, because my fathers pay was not great and he was an E-8

[MSgtAF]

24. Decent for 17-18 year old

signmike,
For 17-18 year old fresh out of high school...They will clear about $1100 a month. That's with free dorm and meals, Health care, GI bill enrollment, 100% tuition assistance (on active duty), all while attending a technical school and upgrade training for at least the first year of four year enlistment. Of course I'm only speaking of the Air Force and these are 2004 numbers. Thanks for your service...

[Cleopatra2a]

26. Don't get started on the "they don't make any money" line

My SO doesn't see how this is possible. All you see around us in base housing are new vehicles, boats, motorcycles etc. And this is on the enlisted side.

[crimson333]

9. There are also many jobs in the military

that are not combat related.

I was the first one in my family not to join, only because I was diagnosed with M.S. at 17, but I would have if not for the M.S.

I don't know I grew up in a military family and I liked the structure and order to things. It was viewed as a noble profession in my family

[chookie]

14. Question

I am not questioning the notion of military service as a noble profession. Indeed it is. It is very interesting that *your* family seems to have always been involved in it, whereas mine has never been. "Nobility", for some reason, is not highly regarded in my family, which is for the most part, educated people who work.

"Structure and order to things" -- yikes -- that is certainly not my family in any of its branches!

The question: may I inquire as to which region of the nation you reside in, or your family is from -- or is this a moot point, as military families are notorious for moving around a lot?

[crimson333]

19. I live in Alabama right now where my dad retired

Basic military family, born and raised until 5th grade in Alaska, lived in Hawaii, Germany ect...basic military brat. Got first hand knowledge that people are all the same around the world.

My family is everywhere Thru out the United States, we are scattered

But my family orgin on my Moms side is Alabama

When I say order and structure I am just looking at it from a dependents point of view as I could not join, so my personal experience is one sided.

[imenja]

10. most are from rural, depressed areas without job prospects

For many, it is either join the military or spend their life working at McDonalds. Before we entered Iraq, serving in active duty or the reserves in exchange for education and job training probably seemed a worthwhile sacrifice. Now recruits are down dramatically. Some still join out of economic desperation. Others want to serve their country. Did you see Fahrenheit 911? Moore deals with some of this.

[chookie]

15. In a disturbing film...

...I personally found the Marine Recruiters scenes to be the most disturbing.

I thought Michael did a good job showing the immediate background of a lot of soldiers. He did much to put a face on how most folk come to "volunteer". He showed a spectrum of soldiers and how they felt about what they had been sent to do. The last few minutes -- "Will they ever trust us again?" -- left me weeping....

[Samoflange]

17. I joined the Air Force at 18

Because my entire life I had wanted to fly. I didn't care if I ended up greasing ball bearings in a Sopwith Camel over the Arctic Circle in a December blizzard; I had always loved flying, aviation, and the view of the earth from above.

My father had been in the medical field in the Air Force in Vietnam, and although he never flew, I kinda liked the notion of carrying on a family tradition of sorts.

For me, it was NEVER about killing, doing "Force Recon Black Ops", the smell of gun oil and napalm, or even the uniforms... it was my love of flying, pure and simple.

My grades sucked, so any chance at college and a pilot slot went by the wayside, and I enlisted. I lucked out and got an aircrew position (only 2% of enlisted AF personnel actually fly) and I loved it.

I knew plenty of assheads in my Wing that were all eaten up with the whole "hoo-rah, kick ass and take names" attitude, but for the most part, we were all there out of a sense of duty and love for flying.

[Skittles]

22. I was in the AF at 18 too

escaping a dreadful home life

[magellan]

23. I was in the Navy at 17

Ditto.

[artemisia1]

25. Service!

Easy. I volunteered for the Coast Guard out of a sense of responsibility to my country. However, I would not have chosen a service such as the Marine Corps or Army, for while the concept of the Armed Forces is noble, in actuality they (infantry) spend more time ensuring global dominance instead of Homeland Defense.

There are many positive aspects to wearing the uniform and serving a cause greater than oneself. Wouldn't change a darn thing.

[Pepperbelly]

27. I joined when I was younger ...

Right toward the end of Viet Nam. It just seemed like something to do while I decided what to do.

[sbj405]

28. Based on my experience, there are a number of reasons

Perhaps this is your cousin's sons way of declaring his independence. A parent paying for college does give them a certain amount of control. That was my reason for attending a service academy. I didn't want to owe them a damn thing.

Beyond that, I'd say the two most common reasons are 1. that it's an opportunity that these kids might not otherwise have and 2. they kids might not otherwise know that they want to do. A lot of people at 18 have no idea what they want to do. Why waste money on college if that's the case.

I suspect that if he's chosen the Air Force he's not doing it for the macho reasons. He will likely acquire some valuable technical skills that will lead him to a civilian career. On the other hand, he may soon realize that the military lifestyle isn't what he wants and get out when his commitment is over. My bf joined the Marines after a year of college because he didn't know what he wanted to do. He went on to complete his time while getting his degree. He's now gainfully employed and getting his MBA at 26. He's also a progressive Democrat. :-)

I guess the bottom line is that there are number of reasons why people join the military and I don't think it's statement on their political leanings.

[signmike]

29. A buddy of mine joined at 17...

by 16 he was in so much trouble with the law more than one judge suggested he join up or do some serious time "indoors". Viet Nam was in full swing. He tried to get anybody who'd listen to go in the Navy with him on a "Kiddie Cruise" - you could join at 17 and get out the day before you turned 21, and they had a "Buddy Plan" where you supposedly stayed with a pal, at least throughout Boot Camp -

So if you joined the day before you turned 18, you would do just 3 years and get the full VA bennies. As soon as he graduated, and right after he turned 17 (so he did just short of 4 years) he talked some poor sucker from high school into the Buddy Plan and when they went to the induction center in L.A., they got put on separate buses bound for San Diego.

They've never seen each other since.