Should we just give up

[cali]

and plan our escape routes across the northern border? Honestly, I have so little faith left in my fellow citizens, I'm beginning to feel like it's hopeless. A year ago I'd be all for hopping on a bus to protest the inauguration of bushco. I'm not planning to go. After seeing the Cornell study indicating that 44% of Americans believe in persecuting their fellow citizens for their religion, after having read threads on the topic in freeperville advocating far worse than that, and after seeing how many Americans voted for the shrub, it's difficult to find any bright spots on this dark horizon.

[kentuck]

1. I posted a similar thought down the page Cali....

We cannot give up. I think that every thread of reason and truth is needed at this time. You are more important than you can ever know. To give up hope is to surrender to more dire and unknown consequences.

[cali]

2. Thanks, kentuck

I needed to hear that. I've never felt like this.

[G_j]

3. I know what you mean

not only are we fighting the BFEE/PNAC etc. we must fight widespread ignorance. How?
education of course, but how?

[Stew225]

4. It's people like yourself that will eventually

help save this country!

The typical programmed citizen would say that you're being defeatist and negative. Damn it! I applaud your candor.

In my almost 57 years on this planet I have learned that this planet is innundated with such ignorant species that it's amazing that earth continues to exist.

Of course, I should stop whining and offer solutions. Believe me, I've tried. After beating one's head into a wall for a while, it becomes a bit futile after awhile.

The democratic party is all but comatose. Not dead, mind you, comatose at this point. That indeed indicates hope, albeit by a miracle.

Back in high school we called people brown-nosers for "going along smiling acting on faith." In my opinion, not only are Republicans brown-nosers but so are most of the democrats that I've seen in action; or perhaps that should be inaction.

The poster child for the democratic party, sadly enough, is Mary Beth Cahill. I rest my case.

What's even sadder is that this thread may be "locked" for me "smearing someone." It happened when I posted about Bev Harris on the Randi Rhodes show.

I used to joke that an optimist is someone who isn't paying attention. I'm wondering now if it's really a joke after all.

[UL_Approved]

5. DU has changed in the last couple of weeks

It seems like all of the people here are losing it. People are mean-spirited, hopeless, and quick to take sides on issues.

This seems like a destructive path for people who are in a distinct minority. After all, we have about 61000 people registered, with only a few times that many who lurk. We have no room for giving up. If we give up, where is the left? Where is the opposition to the Shortbus Dictator?

You can run, but you can't hide. After all, there are fossil fuel deposits all over the world...

[mogster]

8. Good point

> After all, there are fossil fuel deposits all over the world...

Well put :-)

[barb162]

11. wise thoughts

[pretzel4gore]

6. may this poem will help....

"When in panic,
when in doubt,
run in circles,
scream and shout!"


i know it's quite juvenile and nihilistic at first, but if you read between the lines...'in, in, in, and' the positives outweight the negatives maybe
otoh ....

[mogster]

7. Cali, don't give up

You should travel, though.

Did you know that Red America is a dot in a world sea of blue? Wherever you go in the world (well - almost), you will experience societies NOT like the current US society.
Which don't question gay rights, the right to free speech and the right to free religious belief.

I feel a bit of a dork telling you this, because of course you know about it.
But, experiencing it is an altogether different matter.
The 'normal' Americans should reach out in all directions, because the Bushoids are really a small minority and everyone wants to get rid of him - just like you.

That's the real shame of this, you know--that Americans feel unwelcome in their own country.
Uniter, not divider - hah!

[cali]

12. I'm not sure how I gave you the impression

that I haven't traveled. Although I'm sure I'm less well traveled than some here, I did live in England for a year. I've been to several other European countries, as well as Brazil and Mexico. I've traveled throughout the Caribbean and the U.S. I've spent a great deal of time in wonderful neighboring Canada. I realize that the rest of the world is different from the large red splotch that is the U.S., but I don't underestimate this country's immense power and its propensity to use it wrongly. I guess I don't see the bushoids as a minority. I always try to remember that most people are neither 'good' or 'bad'; they're just persuadable, and it appears to me that we're losing the argument.

[mogster]

17. Well, I wasn't trying to tell you that

Sorry if I seemed offensive.
But I was trying to tell you that maybe it isn't a negative thing to go abroad for a while in the current situation :-)
Gives fresh impressions and inspiration to go on working for change.
And a feeling of togetherness.

And there's also the little mentioned point of showing a friendly face to the world, now starved of our old friendly Granny USA.

BTW: You're not loosing the argument, you're winning it ;-)

[BanzaiBonnie]

9. It depends on which one you choose to be

A man visits Hell. In Hell, there are three giant cauldrons in which
the sinners are being boiled. On the rim of one stands a regiment of
demons, shoulder to shoulder, constantly using their pitchforks to
smack down the sinners who are trying to escape. On the rim of the
second walk a few demons, who occasionally whack someone down. The
rim of the third is empty, but no-one is getting out.

What's going on here?, the visitor asks. "There are three kinds of
people," the Devil says. "The first kind is in the first cauldron.
When one looks like he's trying to escape, all the rest follow him.
We need a lot of demons to manage them.

"The second kind is in the second cauldron. Occasionally someone is
trying to escape, but the others don't pay any attention. It takes
just a few demons to deal with this kind.

"The third kind is in the third cauldron: When one is starting to
escape, all the others drag him back down by the ankles."

[Calvinist Basset]

16. Good Piece

I don't usually put much focus on hell, demons, etc. in my sermons. It seems that the better thing to do is focus on the gospel and the joy of being released from those things that bind us.

But I may need to find a sermon sometime soon to use this illustration.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. I'm staying here

I'm a Muslim, and yes, it can be scary. I don't advertise my faith, and neither do any of my Sufi brothers or sisters, and there are several in the area. I think the key is to find peace within your own heart and listen for spiritual guidance. I look upon this time as a spiritual practice, probably one of the most difficult of my life.

[cali]

13. Just out of curiosity

are you an american from a non-muslim tradition who became a Sufi? We have a pretty active Sufi community here, oddly enough, and all of them come from a non-muslim background.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. American

my roots go back to 1620 MA. My husband is part Native American. So you can't get more American than that. Like most Sufis in the US, we came from a non-Muslim tradition, in our cases, Christianity. Many American Sufis I know come from a Jewish background. In fact, the first American Sufi Master, Samuel L. Lewis, came from a Jewish background. But I do know Sufis living in this country who have moved here from Turkey and Persia (they use that name rather than Iran)and India, but they are in the minority at any Sufi gathering I've been to.

[BillZBubb]

14. Never surrender, keep fighting the good fight

That is how you measure character. We are in the minority in our own country. The tide is against us. But, we are right.

In spite of the stupidity, cupidity, and ignorance of most of my fellow citizens, I will continue to fight for their benefit. I know it will be a long, slow and discouraging process. Nonetheless, it is my duty. Eventually the tipping point will come, when the majority realize they've been taken for fools.

That's the bright spot.

[burn the bush]

18. Canada is great, but this is OUR country and we must fight to get it back