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Why would you want anyone to "fix" something, they have vowed to destroy?

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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 06:10 PM
Original message
Why would you want anyone to "fix" something, they have vowed to destroy?
Edited on Sat Dec-18-04 06:18 PM by Zinfandel
When Bush wants the republicans to pass legislation...

Republicans are republicans, don't let the rhetoric fool you...

They talk a good bullshit game...They make it seem as if there is disgruntling in the ranks. an exchange of idea's, and that they are not all in agreement and "it just might not pass"...BUT--It always does, with just enough votes to get it though.

When it comes time to vote on some issue like Social Security, which the republican party has always despised Not one republican voted for Social Security (or "The New Deal"), and on top of which, the Republicans have vowed to destroy Social Security ever since it's inception...

Republicans hate ALL social government programs, period.

It is their ideology, that government should not help the people, people should take care of them selves.

They particularly hate Social Security because it's a liberal program that works. And has worked for over 60 years...nothing is wrong with Social Security, (except for republican administrations raiding the surplus') this is the lie they are pounding in the peoples heads.

New stories every day telling the American people somethings broken, something that's been working fine for a long time, which these same people telling these tales despise and want destroyed, they want it broken into a million pieces forever... and on top of it all... they are asking us to let them "fix" it for us!

Why would you want anyone to "fix" something, they have vowed to destroy?




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48pan Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. I Hate to be Johnny One Note But...
Until we come up with a good proposal, and sell it, the Bush proposal is going to get all of the press. Reid and Pelosi are out there saying there is no problem. Nobody is buying it.

Unless we come up with a good proposal, we are going to lose a good portion of the 25-40 working population.

Hey Pelosi and Reid! File a bill! Get it done the right way!
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pleiku52cab Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Somehow we have to get
Edited on Sat Dec-18-04 06:29 PM by pleiku52cab
real economists on the MSM to debunk the myth of 'immanent collapse' bull shit. Krugman and many others know this is all another repug smoke screen to raid our personal safety nets. Social security uses only about 1% of the funds for administration. Along with the chance of losing ones ass in the market and having no retirement funds left for your old age, the financial 'handlers' will rake up to 20% off the top of your account for handling fees. Just another scheme to bilk the poorer segment of our society and fatten up the rich.
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. What exactly is broken? Are you getting your info from television?
Edited on Sat Dec-18-04 06:42 PM by Zinfandel
Many say Social Security will be fine through 2052. Even if it won't pan out quite that long... We are going to trust the republicans to do the right thing for the people or for the corporations?

By letting people invest in Corporations and just hoping they are making the right investments and that they won't be standing in a food lines when they are old, that you and I will be responsible for.

Suppose millions of people invest in companies like Enron...and this Enron company lies, cheats and steals---on top of that, they keep asking people to invest in their company...All the while this company is bailing out, sucking up all the money and then declaring bankruptcy and all the people's investments and pensions are gone forever.

And that was the money they wanted to invest with, instead of Social ...We just say fuck it, let them stand in soup lines when they are old it's their fault for investing in the wrong company.

Once these investment corporations have even a foot in the door..."IT'S OVER!!!"

Then republicans will ask how come Johnny can't invest 100% of his Social Security money into the big strong investment corporations instead of just a part of it?

It's Johnny's right they will argue...

And the Courts will agree.

Let's hope all the Johnny's and you & me invest correctly and none will be standing in food lines when they are too old to work and pay for shelter!!!!

Why take that chance for millions???
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48pan Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I've seen many takes on the condition of SS...
Some are rosey. Most are not. And yes, I get them from TV, radio, newspapers and the internet.

I don't disagree with your evaluation of the Republican plan. Butt...
It's going to happen if we don't come up with something better.

My students are strongly in favor of the Bush plan. They don't know shit about investing, but none of them expect to collect Social Security. They vote on perception. We need to do something to change that perception.

Just say no was a stupid idea when Nancy Reagan came up with it and it won't serve us well politically over the next four years.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. It is the opposite rule...
Anything that the shrub regime says, you can assume they mean exactly the opposite.
If they want to fix social security, it means they will destroy it.
If they say there will not be a draft, prepare your children, there will be a draft.
The agenda set forth by this regime has only one goal, to completely destroy the propsperity of the middle class in America and create an arostocracy in this country. We will work in seat shops for mear pennies a day and be happy to get that.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Because there is great profit for them in the "fix"
Could it be more obvious?
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's the Reagan gambit all over again. In order to furthre raid
Social Security. Read "Perfectly Legal:The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich - And Cheat Everybody Else" by David Cay Johnston (it's chapter 8 'How Social Security Taxes Subsidize the Rich') where he tells about Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan's skepticism about the need to adjust SS back in the early '80's. Greenspan was the pointman back then.

"Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan...said the social security scare was a phantom. He said raising more from Social Security taxes simply masked the drop in tax revenues caused by the Reagan tax cuts. Moynihan called the Social Security tax hike "thievery". The beneficiaries of the stolen goods, he said, were the rich who would keep their Reagan income tax cuts while everyone below them paid more in taxes." page 122

"Once the Democrats made the decision to tax their constituents decades in advance of when they would receive their retirement benefits, they also had to assure people that that money would be there when they filed for their retirement benefits...But the money ws not used in the way most people think...Social Security taxes were used to pay the ordinary bills of the government, making up for the taxes that were no longer being paid by the rich because of the 1981 income tax cuts." page 123

The Reagan era holdovers are all back in power now and are playing from the same script. Remember, even Reagan had to raise taxes after those 1981 tax cuts...they called them 'revenue enhancements' and these SS payroll tax increases.

So now, boys and girls, we've taken the curtain that surrounded the Wizard's policies. The question now becomes, 'Are the Democrats going to play the Republican's game in the second go-around ?' Even Moynihan decided to lie and play along

(see
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issuebriefs_ib159
"The commission's straw man Social Security well prepared for retirement of baby boomers in 2016" by Christian Weller read quote:
"The commission's co-chairmen, former Senator Patrick Moynihan and AOL Time Warner Chief Operating Officer Richard Parsons, have said that, "f no changes are made before <2016>, the government will either have to raise taxes, cut benefits or other government spending, or add to the public debt" (WSJ 2001). This statement is untrue." )

Social security isn't broken and it doesn't need fixing ! In fact, nothing prevents you from going out right now and buying an annuity and doing what the Republicans, who normally disdain government interevention in YOUR financial decisionmaking, want you to do by yourself for yourself.

In fact, the program that REALLY needs fixing is Medicare/Medicaid with this snippet from

"Medicare faces cost crisis
Multitrillion-dollar deficits loom over federal programs" by
Tom Abate, Chronicle Staff Writer, Sunday, November 7, 2004

""There is considerable debate about how much trouble Social Security is in and whether it requires the fix Bush has proposed. But there is little doubt about the difficulties in store because of the future costs of Medicare and Medicaid.

In fact, the secretaries of the Treasury, Labor and Health and Human Services departments said just that in a March report, "The Status of the Social Security and Medicare Programs."

"Medicare's financial difficulties come sooner -- and are much more severe -- than those confronting Social Security,'' the report said. So why does Social Security rather than Medicare top the president's agenda?

"Because Social Security is the easier of the two problems to solve,'' said Texas A&M economist Thomas Saving, who signed the report as a public member of the Social Security and Medicare Trust Fund, the board that oversees the financial health of the two programs.

Saving said elected officials of both major parties have been unwilling to face the future costs of federal health care programs.

"I don't have to be as careful,'' said Saving, who outlined the Medicare problem in an analysis issued after the official report.

In his analysis, he writes, "Although policy-makers have focused on the long-run sustainability of Social Security, the financial problem in Medicare is five times as great.''

Looking more than 75 years into the future, Saving estimates that the nation faces a $62 trillion unfunded liability for Medicare -- versus a $12 trillion gap for Social Security.""

It looks like Bush is trying out a further raid on SS dollars in order to really trash the Medicare/Medicade system...

Hold onto your wallets, it's going to be a wild ride. Let's hope Sen Harry Reid (D-NV) really does know how to fight and not dance.








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48pan Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. My Plan to Fix Social Security
1. Raise the total SS and Medicare rate to 10% immediately.
2. Wage earners don't start paying until they earn $10,000.
3. The ceiling of $83,000 (?) is lifted. All earnings shall be taxable.
4. The excess goes into a fund that buys long-term t-bills and collects the principal and interest at maturity.
5. That fund may not be used for anything but Social Security deficits.
6. All Social Security and Medicaid taxes are taken out of the regular federal budget and are accounted for separately and publicly. SS funds are not to be allowed to mix with general fund money and may not be drawn upon for anything but SS even in the event of national emergency.
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