"Why care about the planet when the “end of days” is near.....?"

[RandomKoolzip]

This is seriously the most depressing thing I've ever read. We know that the democrats won't speak up; what I'm wondering is where are all the moderate, traditional republicans now that the fringe fundamentalists have hijacked their party? You'd think they'd be upset. It'd be like if the RCP took over the democratic party.


http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=958

snip:

Moyers continues:

“I’m not making this up. I’ve reported on these people, following some of them from Texas to the West Bank. They are sincere, serious, and polite as they tell you they feel called to help bring the rapture on as fulfillment of biblical prophecy. That’s why they have declared solidarity with Israel and the Jewish settlements and backed up their support with money and volunteers. It’s why the invasion of Iraq for them was a warm-up act, predicted in the Book of Revelations.... A war with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared but welcomed -- an essential conflagration on the road to redemption.”

And there is official support in Washington for these views. According to an article by Glenn Scherer in Grist, House Majority Leader Tom Delay -- a self-declared member of the Christian Zionists, an End-Time faction numbering 20 million Americans -- was present at John Hagee’s San Antonio-based Cornerstone Church in 2002 when Hagee preached a fire and brimstone sermon, telling his congregation, “The war between America and Iraq is the gateway to the Apocalypse.” After Hagee’s sermon, Delay was quoted as saying, “Ladies and gentlemen, what has been spoken here tonight is the truth from God.”

Liberal persons of faith: DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SHIT, WILL YA?! Go to these churches and stand up during the sermons! Organize groups to infiltrate these indoctrinating centers and protest INSIDE the churches! Make a fuss! This is a new, radical religion of destruction, ill fate, and suffused with a message of hate, and IT OWNS the government! At the grass roots, they won't listen to atheists, but they WILL listen to those as religious as they. You DO see that this is a problem, right?

And another question: why the hell is Moyers retiring NOW when it's obvious the world needs him more than ever? I hope he won't keep quiet even though his show's over.

[Minstrel Boy]

1. And God will make "a new Heaven and a new Earth"

for the habitation of the saved.

The thinking: the sooner the old Earth gets used up and thrown away, the sooner we move into our new accomodation.

And oh yeah: No Jews/Muslims/Catholics/etc allowed.

[RandomKoolzip]

4. When I lived in Nashville.....

People I worked with, fundies, planned ahead and asked for January 1st, 2000 (Y2K) off from work, because they weren't certain that they'd be in heaven or not on that day. I laughed....this had to be a joke, right? It was the first time I'd heard about "the rapture."

I dismissed it as sad idiocymongering until I realized: these freaks OWN us now.

[JohnnyRingo]

14. Heh heh...i worked with a guy in '99 that was born again

He sold his Corvette to build a bomb shelter, then took the last two weeks of the year off work.

I think he was covering his ass in case he wasn't "chosen".

[nashville_brook]

51. East Tennessee (Tri-Cities) makes Nashville seem like Sweden

Back in 1992 I covered a story in Johnson City where these fundies were holding outdoor "exocisms" downtown in front of Tri-Cities AIDS Project. They wanted to exocise the demons from the gays and the bars that sold alcohol.

Nashville -- with it's Christian music industry -- is Vatican City for the Red States.

[RandomKoolzip]

52. Yessir; it's the hub of Corporate Christianity in America....

It was amazing knowing some people from Jackson or Hohwenwald who were afraid to come to Nashville because they had heard that "secular humanists" lived there. Funny, I wanted to move from Nashville because there weren't ENOUGH secular humanists there!

[Melodybe]

2. First of all the rapture isn't in the damn bible

Not in the Bible and by their own rules that is blasphemous.

The idea came around in the 1830's in England, it basically is a get out of jail free card for christians so they don't have to do a damn thing in order to get into heaven.

The whole idea is well since I'm saved what does it matter what I do, screw the poor, screw the environment, jesus loves me. It came to America twenty years later and was heavily funded by rich white protestants. Sad thing is that they don't seem to realise that those that bring upon the apocolypse are the followers of the anti-christ.

Oh well, just be glad you weren't fooled.

[RandomKoolzip]

3. What I'm wondering is this, though:

Just about everytime there'a religious/anti-religious thread on DU, the DU Christians scream bloody murder in defense of their faith. If we take DU as a slightly more radical cross section of the democratic party, as a representative sample, I think we'd find a majority of democrats who believe in Christianity or at least some form of Protesantism.

Why aren't these people IN the fucking churches, locked in heated argument with their pastors? Or holding placards outside the church doors, demanding a return to traditional Christianity and denouncing this new, radical form of their religion? Are liberal persons of faith HAPPY about this sea change?

Arrrrghhhh....it just makes me so angry I could scream. The DU Christian brigade thinks it's just sooooo important to shout down anyone on DU who might possibly question the validity of their religion, but AREN'T knocking down church walls in anger over the hijacking of their faith! PRIORITIES, people!

I realize they must go to different churches, but still......


Anyhow...is there a link to send me to place where I can learn about the history of this "rapture" bullshit? I don't remember hearing ANYTHING about the "rapture" as a kid.

[TwentyFive]

7. You are right.

If these so called liberal christians actually believed in christianity, this is what they must do. When they come on here defending their terrorist faith - they are just looking for a fight - and should be ignored.

[NuttyFluffers]

23. ny god, that should be a placard on the forums...

it's so painfully obvious in its ring of truth.

indeed, priorities.

[RandomKoolzip]

49. Thank you.

I find it works especially well when debating people who are a just a little TOO PC for my tastes.

[BiggJawn]

26. Because it would push their comfort zones?

Time and again I've said "They've hijacked your religion, YOU deal with them!"

But No, they're more concerned with the firecracker under my foot, all the while ignoring the Dynamite stick parked in their asses...

[Melodybe]

40. I'm not christian, but I've from MS and have grown up around the Baptist

Church, and trust me I sure don't want to go to one. If I did I'd go to a black church b/c I think that you might actually find some god there.

[Razorback_Democrat]

37. This is the "Dominionist" Christian philosophy though

and it is being preached more and more in the fundamentalist Churches which is scary

[bobbieinok]

5. a lot of this is preached in pentecostal churches......and in many

people do stand up during the service and proclaim what that person and many in the congregation consider to be 'messages from God'....so you could try doing this, maybe, ..... go with some friends

[RandomKoolzip]

10. I'm an atheist. A protest from me would carry no weight.

But coming from a person just as religious as they, we might actually get a dialogue going.

[EstimatedProphet]

32. This is exactly why we don't

I can claim to be a Christian until I am blue in the face, but the wackos who believe that shit won't (and never have, anyway) listen to me any more than they would listen to you. To them I am a tool of Satan, and it would be blasphemy to listen to me.
They didn't take over my faith. they never shared it. They have no faith. what they took over is the government-yours and mine-and all of us have to stand up to them.

[donheld]

21. Believe me the Baptists and the Holiness churches teach this too

i was raised that way. Thankfully i escaped. Now the rapture i look for is like Blondie taught us

Toe to toe
Dancing very slow
Barely breathing
Almost comatose
Wall to wall
People hypnotised
And they're stepping lightly
Hang each night in Rapture

Back to back
Sacrailiac
Spineless movement
And a wild attack

Face to face
Sadly solitude
And it's finger popping
Twenty-four hour shopping in Rapture

Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's high
DJ's spinnin' are savin' my mind
Flash is fast, Flash is cool
Francois sez fas, Flashe' no do
And you don't stop, sure shot
Go out to the parking lot
And you get in your car and you drive real far
And you drive all night and then you see a light
And it comes right down and lands on the ground
And out comes a man from Mars
And you try to run but he's got a gun
And he shoots you dead and he eats your head
And then you're in the man from Mars
You go out at night, eatin' cars
You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too
Mercurys and Subarus
And you don't stop, you keep on eatin' cars
Then, when there's no more cars
You go out at night and eat up bars where the people meet
Face to face, dance cheek to cheek
One to one, man to man
Dance toe to toe
Don't move to slow, 'cause the man from Mars
Is through with cars, he's eatin' bars
Yeah, wall to wall, door to door, hall to hall
He's gonna eat 'em all
Rapture, be pure
Take a tour, through the sewer
Don't strain your brain, paint a train
You'll be singin' in the rain
I said don't stop, do punk rock

Well now you see what you wanna be
Just have your party on TV
'Cause the man from Mars won't eat up bars when the TV's on
And now he's gone back up to space
Where he won't have a hassle with the human race
And you hip-hop, and you don't stop
Just blast off, sure shot
'Cause the man from Mars stopped eatin' cars and eatin' bars
And now he only eats guitars, get up!

[TwentyFive]

6. Evangelical, fundamental or conservative Chistians - should be BANNED

from any positions of authority or power.

For people to deliberately cause major war conflicts....so the world gets destroyed and/or many people killed or harmed...is sick.

These 'end worlders' are actually guilty of treason....and should be locked up in jail for the rest of their natural lives, if not worse.

[RandomKoolzip]

8. I don't mind Christians holding office; that's been hapening for two hund

red years. It's when a cabal of these extremists hold a lock on the nation's branches of govt. and advocate starting the apocolypse in the name of their god that I get worried.

We're deling with a cult, here. This is NOT traditional Christianity these freakazoids preach.

[ScaRBama]

28. Now you want to start banning ones choice of faith....

I thought the Democratic Party was for a free thinking and believing nation. Talk like this is why more and more people are taking the other path.
Every person should have a right to believe whatever faith he chooses,not what someone dictates he can or can't believe. You might as well just forget all the reasons this country was ever founded.

[NoSheep]

34. I'm not so damn free thinking that I'm ready to allow a cult to destroy my

country. Think about what you're saying! I smell a rat.

[RandomKoolzip]

45. Oh, like the radical wing of the democratic party has any power

to "ban" anything, right? Grow the fuck up. The MODERATE wing doesn't even have the fucking power to demand the damn popular vote get counted correctly! How do you expect the marginalized left to get a piece of legislation through "banning" persons of faith from holding office? Magic? Voodoo? HOWEVER, there IS a real danger in the fact that the current administration is comprised of the leaders of a extremist corporate religious cult; if you'd read the article in the OP, you'd see that it's a lot worse than I've just described it. Is that OKAY with you, or would you rather berate a powerless plebe on a internet message board for some perceived infraction?

WE'RE not the ones in power anymore, guy. Look at the ones who are. They've taken over your party, and their STATED agenda is armageddon.

Thank you for hijacking my thread with your RW talking points, BTW. Again: are we taking notes, DUers? This is how we reframe the debates. Infiltrate, like they do, turn the terms of discourse around on them, inject specific language consisiting of carefully proscribed talking points.....

[chicagojoe]

9. Doesn't this all sound a bit like crazy Islamic martyrdom stuff?

[RandomKoolzip]

11. Yeah...you'd think that the more radical followers of Fundy Christianity

would say "Hey! Deja Vu!" when met with images of planes hitting buildings on their TVs.

This is the first time in our nation's history that our govt has been run by a cult. The American Taliban has arrived!

[JohnnyRingo]

12. Just another excuse to empty our treasury and our wallets

Into the pockets of people who know it's a lie.

Polution=profits

[RandomKoolzip]

13. Well, it's a dream come true for republicans:

How often do they get to combine their wealth addiction AND their unearned moral force in one fell swoop?

[FM Arouet666]

15. Ignorance is the disease which infects our society

Not wishing to offend liberal christians, but religion is based on fantasy not fact. I view the world based on science. Human existence has improved considerably in the last few hundred years because of a scientific approach to the world. Much more than the thousands of years of religious thinking.

Unfortunately, science cannot tell you where you go when you die or provide a meaning for existence. Moreover, science does not punish you to eternal damnation for disbelief.

Maintaining religion's outdated view of the world stagnates human existence. Evangelicals and the pandering right are ignorant, and infecting our society with their venom of hate and intolerance.

I would hope that thoughtful people of faith would counter the radical elements of their religion. But, that seems to be the same criticism leveled at Muslims and toward the average German in world war two. How could you stand by and let atrocities occur? Fear when confronted with the mob mentality is powerful, often over powering people of good conscience. And that is precisely what the evangelical radical right has become, a religious mob. A mob currently in power.

[toymachines]

16. belief is one thing

sadly beliefs always affect the actions of the believer. it is not alright for someone to believe something that is unfounded on any rational thought. especially when it is so goddam detrimental to everyone. i simply dont see how so many people are blind to these things. arg.

[KT2000]

17. Eeek! A local commissioner

a Democrat, years ago tried to tell me that he had to compromise because there other commissioners who were fundies and actually looked forward to environmental devastation because it meant the apocalypse was near.
Therefore, they made decisions that would intentionally harm the health of the people and the environment. I thought he had to be exaggerating.

This is incredible. Talk about forcing ones religion on others - what about separation of church and state.

[SariesNightly]

18. The dark ages anew

Europe had to waddle hundreds of years before they finally got out of it and now it seems the fundys among us are hurling themselves into the cesspool.

Too bad the rest of the world is reality based, and much like the sinking dollar, this whole country may well get bogged down by this end of world obssesed deadweight.

Where did we so go wrong?

[RandomKoolzip]

20. I think right around the time RFK and MLK were shot......

Where did we so go wrong?

Liberalism (i.e. reality-based thinking) had a good run for a few years. It inspired the country and the world to be better people. It made people stop what they were doing and look around and ask questions about the meaning of life.

And when people stop what they're doing and ask questions about the meaning of life, inevitably they start to be more honest with themselves and others and begin to change things for the better for the greatest amount of people.

And when people are out in the streets, trying to make the world a better place and realizing that all borders are fictions, that nothing separates one human from another, that we are all interdependent and interconnected....well, obviously, they're not shopping, are they?

Introspection is harmful to free market capitalism.

This is why they won't raise the minimum wage or improve conditions for the working class; less trudging and scuttling for the next dollar means more time for introspection, more time to take stock.....and the last time that you could feed a family of four on a father's single salary was....that's right, the 60's. And we all know what happened in the 60's; they don't want that to ever happen again, so they keep the population in a constant state of work, with the only release from work being church on sunday, where you're taught that the only respite from the toil and unpleasantness of this world is in heaven.....

Keep the working class focused on their heavenly reward and you won't have them picking up the torches and pitchforks, making ridiculous demands, like, oh, say, a living wage.

The one little window of time in history when we were honest with each other and actually believed it was possible to make our world more livable, more kind, more happy, is closed. For a short while, we had politicians looking at the poverty, the environmental despoilation, the racism, the injustice, and saying, "Wait a minute; this is fucked! We should change this..."Now we must adjust to the fact that our government is working to make the world LESS livable, LESS sustainable, MORE like the middle ages. This is a radical vision the right is implementing on our country. You'd have to go back to McKinley and multiply him by ten (and cross-breed him with Father Coughlin) to find an administration this dedicated to making living conditions worse for everyone but CEO's.

WE didn't go wrong anywhere; up against all that money, all that power, we were always engaged in an uphill struggle, but we at least had the cojones to make it halfway up the top of that hill for a short time.

[KT2000]

24. Right - that was my childhood and

young adulthood. Was watching Remember the Titans. I remember those days when so many people were really working to make this a better world and trying to LEARN - LEARN - LEARN. We were remaking race relations, the opportunities for women, the roles between the sexes. When there were real breakthroughs it was the best feeling in the world.

And you are so right. When RFK and MLK were shot it was the beginning of the end. The power brokers put an end to it and gave us corporate america - specialists in war and armaments.

I am so glad I was able to live through those times. Compared to these time I now realize it was truly a spiritual experience.

[davekriss]

42. Excellent post, Randomkoolzip

I'd like to add, though, that I think the "middle class" is a historical abberation. It existed in numbers only in the years after WWII to its peak at about 1973, followed by a steady decline returning the proportions of misery back to their historical norms.

In many ways, the generation before me was indeed "the greatest generation", their fruits increasingly squandered by the passive comfort of their children (my generation and the generation that followed). We lived off the social and economic equality our parents' good conscience and efforts afforded us. May we regain the clarity and unity of purpose we've lost these last 20 years.

Where are the labor unions of yesteryear? Why have we allowed the dissolution of the Fairness Doctrine and the Rule of Sevens, resulting in this monolithic merger of all media? Why didn't we stand up to the relentless attacks on Clinton? Why did we tolerate December 12 2000? The trial run of black box voting in Georgia in 2002? The calamity of exit-poll nullifying theft in 2004? Why did we tolerate LIHOP, Plame, Yellow Cake, ersatz-WMD, a lieing, thieving pResident? Where is our outrage? 2004 should've been so distant from a Bush win that a theft would've been impossible.

These are sad times with ramifications for generations to come. All is not lost, but we just lost the fruits of a generation.


Where the law of the majority ceases to be acknowledged, there government ends; the law of the strongest takes its place, and life and property are his who can take them.
---Thomas Jefferson, to Annapolis Citizens, 1809

Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor. It must be demanded by the oppressed.
---Martin Luther King

[newyawker99]

29. Hi SariesNightly!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[donheld]

19. I long for the Rapture -- doubt it if you want

When we met, I always knew
I would feed the magic for you
On my mind constantly
In my arms is where you should be

I love you here by me, baby
You let my love fly free
I want you in my life for all time

CHORUS:
Caught up in the rapture of love
Nothing else can compare
When I feel the magic of you

We stand side by side
Till the storms of life pass us by
Light my life, warm my heart
Say tonight will be just the start

I love you here by me, baby
you let my love fly free
I want you im my life for all time

CHORUS
Caught up in the rapture of love
Nothing else can compare
When I feel the magic of you
The feeling's always new
Caught up in the rapture of you

I love you here by me, baby
You let my love fly free
I want you in my life for all time

REPEAT SECOND CHORUS

Caught up in the rapture of love
Caught up in the rapture of love


thank you Anita Baker for letting us know the true meaning of "rapture"

[RandomKoolzip]

22. I'm guessing that, upon orgasm, she is subsumed up into heaven....

That Blondie song comes to mind here, too......

[IHeart1993]

48. Waiting for October- Polaris

They're playing in Central Park
Check out him, he's shouting at the gate
"Billy didn't tell you everything
or did he mention the magic day?"

Well I figured it out from a fig tree
It's that they chose to be together in silk
Now you been bad for 50 years
and now it looks like that he's taking off his belt

Waiting for October
I cross my fingers
cross my heart
and hope to die

Waiting for October
I'm in the book
and I'll be learning how to fly

He's coming down but he's not alone
He's gonna bring an army of saints
and he's taking all his back home
and then destroying what remains

Waiting for October
I cross my fingers
cross my heart
and hope to die

Waiting for October
I'm in the book
and I'll be learning
to be wings
to be wings

Hoping that the end
will start it all again

And that's when numeral history will die
I said that's what's so right about the day
Cause it all ends in 1999
and commences on the 28th, the 28th, the 28th

Waiting for October
I cross my fingers
cross my heart
and hope to die

Waiting for October
I'm in the book
and I'll be learning how to fly

Waiting for October
I cross my fingers
cross my heart
and hope to die

Waiting for October
I'm in the book
and I'll be learning how to fly

From the album: Music from the Adventures of Pete and Pete

[Nightwing]

25. You never force the hand of God

Let those idiots continue unabated and they'll find themselves in serious trouble. Why do they always pick and choose those commandments they like and those they don't? Have they forgotten, "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God"?? Obviously so!!

[shadowknows69]

27. he also said

that no man would know the hour of his second coming. So it's pretty vain of evangelicals to think that they could speed it along for him. I suspect you'll have a lot of very suprised people who wonder why they're not being caught up in the clouds after the missles start flying or the people from the superflu start dying (hey that almost sounded like a bible verse)

<Nu-Q-lur explosion!!!>

man in church: what was that
preacher: that couldn't have been the holy bombs could it
woman in church: I thought you said we'd be caught up before the great cleansing
preacher: i'm sure he'll take us before the shock wave gets her<BOOM>

[nascarblue]

30. Christian right crash course here...

Ive been trying to tell people this for years. Now finally people are paying attention. Its unbelievable how much sh$t I got a few years back. Look up Rev. Moon and the Unification Church and his ties to Bush if you want to be really scared.

oh by the way, when the MSM wasn't so dominated politically, they used to do actual televised stories about this... Here's the best one I've ever seen along with a lecture done two months ago by Cornell University... These are must see's! and please forward them to friends and family. This is no joke.


http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/liberty.wmv

http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.wmv

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (the real reason they got medals)

[Butterflies]

44. That first link is amazing, I can't believe they've gotten so far.

The parts about beating children being fine (bruises are good), "I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag . . . ", book burning, and censoring schoolbooks so they don't mention slavery poverty evolution or computers(!). Most of the film was made in 1982, and they were trying to get rid of Social Security and public schools back then. They were pushing homeschooling, and the brainwashing school in the film was so creepy. These people are as anti-American as I've ever seen. How have they fooled so many people?

[nascarblue]

31. Hey Random, that link is broken NT

[Aristus]

33. If God is all-powerful, why does his "plan" need help from a

bunch of dentally-challenged, inbred backwoods fuckwads????????

:shrug:

[0007]

35. Bill Moyers is retiring for the same reasons Dan Rather's & Tom Brokaw

are. It is true Mr. Moyers will be missed, but I'm more than sure we haven't heard the last of him. I hope Dan Rather's and Tom Brokaw crank it now that they are out from under their commitment with the major media.

[Razorback_Democrat]

36. Most liberals go to liberal Churches who don't believe this stuff

so it is hard to do that. my Church doesn't have any or at least very many who believe this way.

If there are liberals that attend right wing Churches they usually don't stay around.

[RandomKoolzip]

46. Well, then why don't liberal christians talk to their pastors

about organizing a national or even local counter-quorum? Why don't some liberal Christians who go to churches across town or the local Unitarian church organize protests outside the offending churches, or even go inside them and hand out literature counter to the false teachings of the Raptureheads?

Again, *I* can't do this, but somebody has to.....And where are the DUer's running for local office? City council seats are almost always open. Start at the grass roots.

Instead of letting the christo-fascist pastors drive the liberal christians out of their churches, why don't those liberal persons of faith start SPEAKING UP?

[Razorback_Democrat]

50. Some good points

I for one cannot protest outside of fundie churches due to my job and need to make a living

but, a serious discussion with some of them regarding this might be something to think about

also, I haven't been pushed out of my Church by a Christo-fascist preacher as I didn't attend one in the first place. My pastor is a Yale educated Episcopal Priest who teaches philosophy at our local University as a part time position. Very cool guy

[catmandu57]

38. A guy I went to school with

many years ago, lives in OP kansas, very red, very affluent, very fucked, anyway even though this guy is a moron* lover, and because my wife really likes his wife,so, we continue to see them.

He and his wife attend some damn mega fundie church down there, and a couple of weeks ago we were there for a holiday visit, he began bitching about the EPA, and how they were fucking things up, later he was talking about taking his son fishing.

I thought, dude, if there isn't anyone to protect the environment don't worry about taking your kid fishing, because waste is all you'll catch.

He's taking marching orders from the pulpit, we need the religious people to counter balance these idiots. I don't share their beliefs, but, I think the only way to stop these people is for others who half ass know what they're saying is to point out to them their delusional thinking.

[jarab]

39. I don't argue aspects of religion, but

I do have a problem with those who predict a "soon" coming yet still deposit their church's assets in "long-term" investments. There's something terribly untruthful in such conduct.
...O..

[indigobusiness]

41. It illustrates a disrespect for their own belief system.

There are warnings about this very sort of behavior within the Christian teachings.

This is AntiChristianity.

[blindpig]

43. so, they think they'll be better off dead?

You know, eternity with your loved ones, praising God. Seems to me a major "selling point" differentiating their product from many other ethical systems. Everything will be great once you're dead, what a cool concept for oppressors in the here and now. I just wonder what Constantine was thinking..............

People can believe whatever they want but when they use crap like that to justify raping the Earth they are my mortal enemies. As though greed, hubris, ambition and stupidity weren't enough.

Good Christians must recapture their religion from these nuts or risk having their faith Proscribed in the coming Age of Reason. If these yahoos don't ruin the Earth first.

[RandomKoolzip]

47. People can believe whatever they want but when they use crap like that to

justify raping the earth they are my mortal enemies....."

Your post remided me of Bush's comment during the third debate about expanding Florida wetlands by "3 million." Just 3 million WHAT he never specified......3 million parts of dioxin per billion? 3 million new investors building Walmarts? 3 million mosquitos bearing malaria?

[LittleClarkie]

53. God don't need no help

And he doesn't like to be rushed, either.