Alabama school board Pres. wants to push prayer in public schools

[donsu]

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/110345145857660.xml

Board president would like to see students gather for daily prayers


Mobile County school board President David Thomas said he wants to "push the envelope" on religion in schools, possibly by allowing students to gather daily to offer prayers.

Thomas said students and teachers often shy away from religious activities for fear of breaking the rules or being sued. Last week, he asked school system attorneys to research just how much spirituality can be legally tolerated in the classroom and asked the board to fully support those of any faith who want to pray at school.

"We've gone so far to the left that we've completely eliminated some things that might can be done," said Thomas, who also serves as chairman of the National School Boards Association's Council of Urban Boards of Education. "I don't think there's a clear understanding of what can and cannot be done."

-snip-

By law, school board meetings begin with a prayer. A 1963 Supreme Court ruling banned school prayer, but most public schools in Mobile County and throughout the state begin the day with a moment of silence.
-snip-
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ignorance rules in Alabama

yep, get yourself on a school board and you will have POWER.

[FM Arouet666]

1. Why can't religious folks keep their religion private

The media is buzzing with pro-religious propaganda. Prayer in school, the Happy Holidays vs Merry chistmas controversy, labels on books, the ten commandments etc etc. Why can't evangelicals be satisfied with keeping religion private. No one is saying you can't pray, pray all day if you like, just don't force others into your warped fantasy world.

[heretheycome]

19. wow

now I understand why I was attacked in my nativity post of "let them have it"

holy bajeebus

[FM Arouet666]

24. Let them have it, at home.

The rest of us do not need to see nativity scenes everywhere. State sponsored ignorance is supposed to be forbidden in the constitution. Then again, we have shrub and Co., the largest group of state sponsored ignorance the world has ever seen.

[scarlett1]

2. Any Faith?

"Thomas said students and teachers often shy away from religious activities for fear of breaking the rules or being sued. Last week, he asked school system attorneys to research just how much spirituality can be legally tolerated in the classroom and asked the board to fully support those of any faith who want to pray at school."

So if a child wants to profess their faith of satanism, The school will tolerated it?
I doubt it.

[BR_Parkway]

3. They'd get sent home for "disrupting" n/t

[Q3JR4]

5. To think,

I haven't been in high school for many years. I could have had lots of fun in the red town of the red state I grew up in.

[ChrisK]

4. How much time does one need to pray?

If pray is so important to the children's parents then get them up a bit earlier and you can all pray together and go about your day.

If folks like this Mr Thomas focused their time on helping the children get a better education for the time they have them in there schools instead of trying to break or curtail the law you would have smarter kids running around..but there again I guess is the problem, smart kids.

Makes one wonder what else he is ignoring while focused on this prayer issue?

[Chipper Chat]

6. Newt Gingrich promised to bring this up for a vote

in the House in 1995. It was just lip service then - never came to fruitation & wouldn't have passed.
But hey DeMint, Coburn, Istook, Frist, etc: go ahead introduce a bill now - let's have prayer not only in schools, but in every public gathering, before, during, & after sporting events, when we're taking a crap, and on every radio station 24 hours a day.
That will get rids of the gays, the national debt, and Democrats for sure!

[gaia_gardener]

7. Correct me if I'm wrong

but haven't kids always been able to meet to pray, provided they don't use instructional time and don't disrupt other students?

We had prayer groups at school (and despite my fundie parents and then beliefs, I wasn't a member). Students would meet in the gym or around the flagpole depending on the weather. No one ever had a problem with it.

[AllegroRondo]

8. You're exactly right

students have the right to pray wherever and whenever they want, as long as they dont disrupt class or other people to do it.

what we need to emphasise is why school prayer like this is BAD for christians. By saying "this is the time and place you get to pray", the school is also implying that any other time or place is not allowed.

[Charon]

20. Correct me if I'm Wrong

I believe that you are correct. Individual prayer/bible study does occur at lunch times,after school hours etc. Think what this gentleman is angling for is to have teachers lead prayers like an Imam in a Mosque.

[Zinfandel]

9. Just let them fucking have it!!! Who really gives a shit????

It's NOT like it's going to spread like wildfire into California or other progressive states...

They want us to get upset and try and stop it and make national news to create more bullshit smokescreens for this fascist agenda. so Bush can look like Mr Christian...when he's really a partying falling down drunk, banging babes that his boys set up for him...they are ALL fucking lying greedy republican hypocrites!

Who really gives a shit what they do in Alabama?

[UdoKier]

14. If they can have that, I want to proselytize atheism at my kid's school.

"Okay, kids, after a lifetime of experience, I've come to the conclusion that there is no logical basis for a belief in God. This is the life you get, so you better damn well make the most of it and not waste your precious time on prayers. Thanks very much for your time, see you tomorrow for the exact same confirmation."

"But Mommy says.."

"Your mom's a liar. Move along son, you bother me..."

[LizW]

15. Those of us who live here care

I'm glad not everyone shares your attitude.

This man is just one ignorant person. He's president of a school board over a large school system, but he doesn't even know the law. What he's arguing for is already legal and practiced widely all over Alabama with very little fanfare. If school children want to gather and pray together outside of instructional time, they can do it. ANY religious group can do it. He looks like an idiot for not knowing what he's talking about.

[Zinfandel]

18. This corporate media gets it's talking points & "news" from the WH

daily memos, for the most part.

They want this story out there along with every ACLU story about church & state and if they can get Robert Blake & Peterson stories so much the better. They want and need to fan these supposed anti-Christian stories at X-mas time ...so Bush can continue to look like the second coming to these sheep.

Anything to take away from the shit they are really going after... privatizing SS, the billions of dollars going to Iraq and the corporation corruption everywhere, electronic voting machines, our troops dying for what, the economy in shambles, unemployment, etc. etc.

As you said yourself, this guy in Alabama looks & sounds like an idiot.

This would have a long, long way to go to ever becoming law, and the last thing the US Supreme Court wants to do right now is rule on the separation of Church and State...The republicans would much rather change the Constitution first, which is what their ultimate goal is, then to have it heard in the Supreme Court.

The republicans want & need smokescreens, and for us to give in to every idiot fundamentalist in Alabama or elsewhere, every time one of these wants to force their bullshit on us for a little press, is absolutely playing into Rove's and the fascist hands.

[DebinTx]

10. My kid's schools hold prayer outside before class

and I have no problem with it at all and neither do my kids.

Why do wing nuts have to be so brazen with their religion? They should go to church (where it belongs) if they want to pray so badly.

[gaia_gardener]

11. I've never understood the public prayer thing

Christ specifically spoke against public prayer - paraphrasing "when you pray go into a closet". I've never been comfortable with public prayer and now refuse to participate in the congregational prayers at church.

[Jack The Tab]

12. Matthew 6:6

In Matthew 6:6, Christ states, "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

However, Christ is also dealing with a particular practice of the
Pharisees. They made a big show of praying so that everyone would know just how spiritual they were. They were proud and ostentatious in their prayers so that others would see them. That is, they took what should have been their private prayer life and made a public show of it so that others would be amazed at their spirituality.

>I got this description from a christian website. Amazing how well this fits todays modern fundies. perhaps we should start calling them Pharisees.

[gaia_gardener]

22. This is the verse I paraphrased above

because of this, I refuse to participate in congregational prayer. I also refuse to participate in prayer groups. You're either led to pray or you're not. Being in a place to pray won't make you led to pray.

[secedeeconomically]

13. Maybe they should press education lol

Might go farther in life.

[IHeart1993]

16. If they want pray in school

Send them to a catholic or christian school.

[misanthrope]

17. Right here in good ol' Mobile...

...Nobody ever believes me when I tell them about this place.

That school board president is a putz, a complete sycophant who spends all his time bowing and scraping for the power brokers in town.

Believe me, if you knew the story behind his favorite watering hole and its denizens, you'd be disgusted with him.

[ComerPerro]

21. Proof that the right wing isn't religious. Just very self-involved

I am moving more and more toward the view that conservatives don't believe in anything. Everything I hear from the right stinks of hypocrisy and self-righteousness.

If these people were truly religious, they wouldn't need to make public displays of their beliefs and they certainly wouldn't have to ram them down society's throat.

It's all an act so they can feel more important.

[Sara Beverley]

23. We all need to pray to get rid of the Fascists controlling our government.

I'm not opposed to prayer. Just pray for something meaningful...not for winning a football game.

[immoderate]

25. As a teacher, I always gave my students a chance...

to "communicate with your maker" before a test. Or they could get a last look at their notes. Some of my students thought that I was being facetious. Not exactly true. "Whatever helps," is what I wanted for them. The students with some insight probably knew I was an atheist.

When I was in grade school, I always volunteered to read the Psalm for that day. It was a chance to have the spotlight, there was a lot of competition to be the "leader." I must say I never believed it, but it was cool to do.

Again as a teacher, I also used biblical references to illustrate situations, as well as other mythological or secular literature. It's part of being literate.

I'm not sure what to make of this, except I don't want students to be taught that nonsense is true. But if they want to do it, I have no special objection as long as they don't have to believe it.

I guess my point is, that's it's not all so simple.

--IMM