Was Jesus Christ homeless?

[itzamirakul]

Interesting telephone guest named "Nick Coleman" a columnist from the Star Tribune going on right now on AAR.

He says he wrote a column a week ago reminding people that Jesus Christ was "homeless" i.e. "born in a manger," and he has received a huge amount of email screaming that Jesus was not homeless but came from a middle class family because Joseph was a carpenter and they owned a donkey. There was a lively debate between Coleman and whoever the gentleman is who is subbing for Al Franken. Al's sub says that the Christ family were refugees - not homeless. Coleman said he got his information about Jesus being homeless from his catholic school upbringing - that the nuns were the ones who taught it to him. The homeless situation is clearly stated in the Christmas hymn, "Away in a Manger."

The whole point was that under the Bush administration, the government AND Bush supporters are trying to sweep the growing problem of homelessness under the rug.

What do YOU think?

[maveric]

1. Mary and Joe had a place but JC was hip with the street life.

A life he chose to live.

[itzamirakul]

7. Agree..but that "street life" was after he was

12 years old - right? I mean he went and taught some elders until his mother came and got him and took him home. Then a few years later, he took his first crew of Apsotles and overturned the moneychangers tables in the Temple and that was the start of his adult homelessness. Which I do agree was voluntary - moving from place to place to preach his message.

But the family WAS homeless on the night he was born, weren't they?

[Warpy]

2. They were close to middle class

They were professionals, had enough money for an inn, but the inn was full. Alternative accomodations in a stable for paying guests were not uncommon, not even into the early 19th century. The stables were warm, dry, and had hay for soft bedding. That people now make such a big deal of it is insane.

However, at the age of 30, he gave up his profession and left his home, essentially becoming a homeless street preacher.

That's what the whole "Jesus as homeless" idea should focus on, not the relatively comfortable circumstances (for the times) of his birth.

[hoi polloi]

24. Away in a Manger would have never been written

The three wise men would have gone up to the Concierge who would have called Joseph and would have asked if he could send up three guys from the orient bringing gifts.
Would have been a different story.

[neuvocat]

3. He slept on the mountainside.

He had no place, the bible said, where to lay his head. Even the animals had homes to live in.

[wtbymark]

4. sweep under the rug?

I don't know how they're gonna do that when they mangle all of the social programs and put the people in charge of their own retirement, you think we have homeless now???? If the policies continue down the republican slash and burn tract, I wouldn't hesitate to say- quadruple the homeless population in a few short years ---and yea, quadruple it again when the whole economy goes into the shitter.

[Zensea]

5. Matthew 25:40

"Whatever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me."


Whether Jesus was literally homeless or not doesn't really matter.

[itzamirakul]

9. I think the point that Coleman was trying to make

was that the very same people who claim to be so morally superior, tend to blame the homeless for their own plight. He mentioned the huge rise in rental costs for a tiny one-bedroom apartment versus the fact that the minumim wage hasn't been increased in over 7 years.

So, how can one claim to believe in Jesus Christ without taking into account the fact that he lived as a homeless adult?

[Roaming]

37. He wasn't really homeless in the sense he was sleeping in the streets

at night like we think of homeless people today. He stayed with other people most of the time, such as Mary and Martha (sisters of Lazarus), etc.

[Squatch]

6. Well, let's ask Him, shall we?

"Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:3)

"If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."
(Matthew 19:21)

"Jesus replied, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”"
(Luke 9:58)

"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich."
(2 Corinthians 8;9)

[Ian David]

8. The real issue raised by his editorial

More important than the "Was Jesus Homeless" question is why his readers were more concerned about his ideas on Jesus, than about the 8,000 homeless in their own state that the article was REALLY about. And why fundie christians see themselves as persecuted in America.
Nick Coleman: The gospel truth about some readers

---
Nick Coleman, Star Tribune
December 17, 2004 NICK1217

Many people say Christians are under siege this Christmas from godless types who want to give us a black eye. I don't buy it for one simple reason: No one knows how to give us Christians a bigger black eye than the people who call themselves Christians.

This week, a number of my fellow Christians took time from worship to criticize a column I wrote about the homeless. They didn't write to tell me about their concern for the 8,000 homeless in Minnesota or the fact that half of them are women and kids or that 100 of them died this year.

No, they wrote to say that even though we will always have the poor with us, as Jesus said, that doesn't mean those poor buggers shouldn't get out of the way of our SUVs.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/357/5141957.html

[itzamirakul]

11. Thanks so much for posting

the link and part of the text. It makes clear what i heard him say on AAR.

[Tsiyu]

29. Neal Boortz has been ranting on this for years

being the Biblical Historian that he is.

Sad, but repukes don't care about the homeless. If Jesus was an Iraq Vet, they'd just say "he asked to join and he gets the war he gets."


Repukes are Godless, heartless, greedy scum.

What are the Seven Deadly Sins?

Pride
Envy
Wrath
Sloth
Lust
Avarice
Gluttony

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

Repukes kinda EMULATE the list, don't they?

[Johonny]

40. Well

Since there is no historic account of Jesus's life it is impossible to answer the question. The bible story of Jesus's birth is clearly an ab lib of old testament stories used to support Jesus as the new messiah.

[Cleita]

10. If the gospels are somewhat correct in this, then yes he was

homeless. Because he was a wandering preacher, he relied on the kindness of his followers to feed him and his apostles, put them up for the night as well as helping out in other ways in exchange for his preaching and stories or parables that he told to teach them about God. However, it doesn't necessarily mean he grew up homeless and the gospels would point to the fact that his family although poor had a home and an income.

[TO Kid]

34. If he was homeless, so were the Bedouins

Not having a fixed abode does not necessarily make one homeless. To say He had no income is misleading too- he lived on donations, not unlike people who run charities full-time. The live He lived was by choice, not circumstance, and He was satisfied with it, so there is just no comparison with those who are homeless due to misfortune beyond their own control.

[Ms. Clio]

39. For an atheist you are awfully interested in this Christianity stuff

Keep up with missionary web sites and talk about the Bible all the time.

Not many atheists I know capitalize "He" when talking about god.

[kentuck]

12. Yes, he was homeless...

He did not know from one day to the next where he would sleep...I think that is in the Gospels.

[anti-fundie]

17. Bit of a difference.

Jesus was voluntarily homeless, if "homeless" at all. The who "Away In A Manger" argument is weak. If I go to the Motel 6 and there is no vacancy, that does not mean I'm "homeless"; it just means I can't get a room for the night. We know that Joseph was a carpenter and was therefore very likely to provide for his family.

Although the Gospels note that Jesus traveled throughout Judea during his ministry, He did not do so before His ministry. He, like Joseph, was a carpenter and likely lived at "home." When He began His ministry, he voluntarily traveled throughout Judea and voluntarily relied on the compassion of others to provide lodging for Him and the 12 disciples.

All in all, I think it's important that we not assign twentieth-century terminology to a first-century situation.

[Tsiyu]

31. Was he Voluntarily nailed on the Cross?

You might claim so.

But the bigger picture is, he lived as a homeless person to learn about man.

Would you do it?

Would you go homeless?

And do you stop and think that the homeless person you meet today might be Jesus? Do you treat him or her as if they could be Divine?


"Be careful to entertain strangers...." You find the rest of that statement.

That's the bottom line, friend.

Justifying a lack of compassion is no use of Christ's life or message.

[madrchsod]

13. Jesus was from a blue collar family

middle to upper class depending on the size of his dad`s business. one would have to study the economy of the time to see if there was a recession or a growing economy. far from homeless he would have been raised in a rather large home with plenty of furniture. the problem with the manger bit if it were true is that joe and the misses didn`t book a hotel in time for the tax collection "vaction"-they should have got on "hotels.com" and booked in advance. maybe next time they`ll get a family package to a wisconsin dells waterpark resort

[BurtWorm]

14. Did they have collars in those days?

:hi:

[noel711]

15. Jesus' economics

Too many myths about Jesus and econ...
Born in a manger because no room in the inn?

A myth; the Greek for inn ("...for there was no room in the inn...Luke 2:7) is a misrepresentation; 'katalyma' means room, not really inn. His family was probably staying with relatives, but the guest room (katalyma) was in use by Aunt Fanny, and since giving birth was ritually unclean,Mary gave birth in the stable beneath the house. Oh, I can hear the fundamentalists wailing now...

Joseph was a craftsman, not a professional. BUT since he was of the 'house and lineage of David,' (Luke 2:4), and had to go to Bethlehem for a census, thus, pay taxes, it means that somewhere along the familial line, his family owned property. Certainly not landed gentry, but not indigent.

AND, in Luke 2:22-24, Mary and Joseph brought the child to the temple for circumcision and her purification (there is this line in Leviticus were women, after childbirth, were impure and could not go to temple or church until the priest approved; this continues up until the late middle ages.... women who weren't purified after childbirth couldn't be buried in a churchyard if they died in childbirth); Mary and Jospeh brought a sacrifice of "two turtledoves, "(and you wondered where that line in the song came from). IF they had been a family of means, they would have brought a lamb to sacrifice.... Oh, wait a minute, they DID bring a lamb to sacrifice... just 33 years too early. Oh,sorry, I'm preachin' again.

Anyway, Jesus talked more about money than anything else besides faith and God and the like. He spoke more about man's preoccupation with money, and how it gets between him and his spiritual life and his relationship with others. Notice, Jesus never said nothin' about sexuality, (He did say to the woman caught in adultery: "Go and sin no more." ) Nope, Jesus never spoke out against gays. That was Old TEstamen stuff.... and the early church, Paul and the others, spoke out against sexual variation because it smacked of the Greek and Roman pagan rituals.

Frankly, Jesus may have not had his own home, but scripture reminds us that he frequented the home of Martha (the patron saint of Martha Stewart and her ilk) and Mary, and brother Lazarus in Bethany for meals, hospitality, and I'm sure, the spare bedroom.

Luke 8:2-3 tells us that there were a number of women who followed Jesus (translate: disciples, but the patriarchy who wrote the New TEstament wouldn't, couldn't,dare not declare women disciples.)
These women "provided for him out of their resources." Translated:
These followers cared for him financially. Cared for his needs.
Obviously, Jesus wasn't equipped with a charge card.

Poor? Maybe if we compare him to our lifestyle, but his needs were few, and those were met. And if he got hungry, well, think about the loaves and fishes....

[anti-fundie]

18. Well stated. Very interesting.

[Tsiyu]

30. You missed a great deal of the Gospels

Cite Scripture to back all of this up, please

[noel711]

32. YO Buddy HOlly...

I DID cite scripture. Haul out yer Bible...

[Tsiyu]

33. You did but only to back up certain statements.

See above posts with actual Scripture in quotes.

Your um...analysis..... doesn't qualify.

[noel711]

35. Buddy...

What analysis didn't qualify?
The fact that katalyma means room in a house not an inn?
Or the statements that Jesus spoke more about money than sex?
Please give me more to go on.

[jesusq]

22. Okay, a blue tunic or toga, JEEZ-US!

Let us not forget poor Jewsih Mother Mary and all her troubles. She had this son who was supposed to be the Son of God, and what did he do for a living? He did construction work, lived at home with his mother, and didn't get married, hell, he didn't even date.

When he finally did get a little ambition, he decided to go on tour with an entourage of 12 wannabes, pissing off the Pharisees (read: today's christain right) and got himself killed by the Romans.

[ghostsofgiants]

16. I dunno if he was homeless...

But he was a bastard child.

[Razorback_Democrat]

delete

oops

[Razorback_Democrat]

19. Now that's tacky!

Jeebus

[theboss]

20. No, Jesus was not homeless as a child

His family traveled to Bethlehem before his birth to register for the census. I am presuming that Joseph had a home to travel from. The "inn" was likely a friend or family member's home. It wasn't a Holiday Inn. We meet Jesus again at 12 when his father takes him to the temple. I assume they weren's gypsies then, and I assume Joseph was working as a carpenter. Then we meet Jesus at 30. Presumably, he was working in these years before he began his ministry and not simply wandering the Earth. Though who knows? Once he began his ministry, he obviously did not have a home and relied on friends and followers for accomdations. But that hardly qualifies as "homeless" in the traditional sense.

[dflprincess]

21. Here are links to the columns Coleman was talking about today

This is the original one:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/357/5137660.html

This is the one he wrote about the response he received:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/357/5141957.html


We apparently had similar nuns teaching us. As he pointed out in his second column, the nuns told us about Jesus identifying with the poor and that was why he was born in the stable. Not because Joseph neglected to call ahead and confirm their reservation.

[orpupilofnature57]

23. heavenly vagabond,not bound by bourgeoisie,crucified by them.

And they still try pulling him out of the sky,when it suits THEM.

[genieroze]

25. Something else that's odd, fundies aren't exactly in love with

Catholics yet they celebrate Christmas on December 25th which Pope Julius proclaimed as Christ's birth. "Natalis Solis Invicti," the festival of the birth of the invincible sun fell on that date. The Orthodox Churches of Eastern Europe celebrate Christmas on 6
January because Saturnalia ended on that day. Saturnalia lasts for 12 days. Most scholars say Christ was born in March.

[itzamirakul]

26. I think most people know in their hearts

that the Dec. 25th date is a made-up one. I had heard that the actual birthdate was in April - hence Easter.

Anyway, whether or not Jesus Christ was homeless in the modern sense of the word, It seems that he chose to live his adult life as a homeless wanderer who's primary purpose was to save the poor from a life of self-guilt and worthless feelings.

Of course, there are those who do not believe that Jesus Christ existed at all.

[Disturbed]

27. It doesn't matter to me....

if there never was an actual Jesus, the virgin birth, rising from the dead, son of god and all of those miracles. The msg., the parables, the sermons and his concepts are what's important to me.

[shawn703]

36. I think date of Easter was really an estimated date of the resurrection

Although once the Romans got a hold of Christianity and changing dates around to coincide with already existing holidays (like the solstice celebration for Christmas). But Easter comes right after Passover.

[nascarblue]

28. He was both homeless and a refugee..wtf is the big deal? f'in freepers!

Leave it to freeper freaks to make a big deal about something that's true.
I heard the interview and I wasn't surprised to hear about all the hate mail he got. Go on any blog that is anti war, pro truth, and you always see the most ridiculous right wing comments. If I isten to C-Spans Washington Journal and the calls that come in, I want to smash my tv. It seems ever since Rather-gate these freaks are completely out of control.

I went to Catholic school and church for 17 years of my life, and the "homeless" analogy is correct. They asked to stay in a hotel, they had no room so they stayed in a manger. Now if you think about that in todays terms, that is DEFINITELY homeless. A couple about to have a baby and they don't have a home? Come on...

I swear it's incredible this phenomenon of arrogant americans pounding their chests until we live in some kind of fairy tale.

[Roaming]

38. I think he was homeless in the sense that being both God and man,

he truly didn't have a home here on earth where he could be comfortable; he wasn't sleeping in the streets anyway -- he had places to stay (his followers and friends provided those).