Lately, I've been seeing more and more homeless people

[CatWoman]

begging on the streets and at Interstate exits.

I remember back in 1992 it was also a common sight. I was living in El Paso then, and had voted for the first time (for Bill Clinton).

Poppy Bush was president then.

I don't remember seeing so many homeless people when Clinton was president.

Another Bush is now bringing us much misery.

[madinmaryland]

1. I remember the same phenomena happening

in New York City in the mid 90's. Guiliani tried to take credit, but everyone hated him at the time. It was the jobs that Clinton created that got people off the streets. I guess that is what a "job-recovery" is.

[gottaB]

2. Where?

[CatWoman]

4. Atlanta

[donheld]

3. Denver is flooded with homeless

It's really quite sad. Downtown, roadways through out the metro area, people stand with their cardboard signs asking for money.

[Jesus H. Christ]

5. Not the "typical" kind of homeless people either.

i.e. people with mental illness or addiction problems.

The other day I saw a young married couple panhandling.

[CatWoman]

6. Me too!!!

and they had their dog with them.

Broke my heart :cry:

[Jesus H. Christ]

8. The odd thing was, they were panhandling in a poor neighborhood.

I guess poor people are more charitable than rich people. Go figure.

[CatWoman]

10. ever see the Salvation Army bell ringers

in front of an upscale store???

[girl gone mad]

22. Rich people will call the cops..

and have them hauled away to some "free panhandling zone".

[Ladyhawk]

23. They are. Even Steinbeck said so in The Grapes of Wrath. n/t

[SmileyBoy]

7. The homeless in my city (Fargo) are proliferating as well.

Most of them are living under any one of the three bridges downtown that cross the river. The local news did a report on the rising homeless population here a few weeks ago. It's getting really sad.

[eagler]

9. I work in a homeless shelter and

especially over the past 2 or 3 years our population has multiplied many times over. Mostly since they cleared out the mental health centers. This is THE national disgrace!

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[Jesus H. Christ]

12. And where do you live?

nt

[Beetwasher]

13. The Moon?

Or la la land...

[leftchick]

14. planet bushworld*

where it is always opposite day! War = Peace, freedom = death, etc...

[Name removed]

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[salin]

19. I appolgize

I was going to snidely ask if this was due to stricter enforcement of local regs to lock 'em up... sad that my snipey initial reaction was actual on the mark *sigh* bet the folks who passed that ordinance view themselves as "Good Christians" - although they act in opposition to the teachings of the man for whom the religion is named.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Jesus H. Christ]

21. Ah, segregation.

Well, that would explain it.

[FM Arouet666]

29. How is this legal?

And where is Coral Gable?

[amazona]

45. certainly it's legal

There are laws against vagrancy and having no visible means of support.

I'm torn about this, because in the early 1990s, when there were 50,000 boarded-up homes in the greater New Orleans area caused by Bush I and the S&L crisis, I got to know quite a few homeless people and learned a lot of tricks about how to survive on little money that have stood me in good stead to this day.

However, as a homeowner, you just can't have beggars, streetwalkers, etc. in your neighborhood. It is taking money out of your pocket because it destroys the value of your home. And for most lower income home owners (like me) the home is really all I have to fall back on. I can't let it lose value. I saw a friend's home fall in value from $80K to where he had to sell it for $40K in the mid 90s because the street people, crack dealers, etc. move in. This is a financial disaster for most people -- years of after-tax disposable income gone because police give up on enforcing law in an area.

We do no one any good if we lose our own homes and just add to the problem.

[Jesus H. Christ]

52. But are they in conflict with the 14th amendment?

Seems to me homeless people have a right to exist.

[amazona]

58. these laws have been on the books for donkey's years

I don't see where the conflict with the 14th amendment comes in?

Laws against vagrancy have always existed. If they are not enforced in your neighborhood, it is because no one complains or the cops have given up on your neighborhood. I have never heard anyone question their legality before. Their morality, maybe, but they're perfectly legal. I've known plenty of homeless people, and none of them have tried to argue that trespassing is legal when they get caught.
The judge is going to throw out the ticket anyway. The point is not to get their nonexistent pocket money, the point is to keep them moving along. Like it or not.

As I said, I'm conflicted about it.

[rman]

51. legal is what the rules say is legal. does't say anything about morality

-

[salin]

16. to what would you account this phenomenon?

improving economy... improving mental health services... :eyes:

[zann725]

55. Some city councils are "zoning out" the homeless

In Santa Monica (where numbers of homeless have grown), several local candidates in the last election, pushed initiatives to 'relocate' and 'redistribute' the homeless to other areas of in Los Angeles.
And business owners have publicly complained that they don't want homelss in their "area"...not just in front of their stores.

I guess the theory is...out of sight...out of mind. So much for "Land of the Free."

[wicket]

57. must be fantasty land

[salin]

15. Another sign... the graying of fast food workers

started noticing it in 1991... suddenly the teenagers weren't working the window at Wendys, or McDs... then a few years later the fastfood industry was teen driven again. Then by 2002... the fastfood workforce once again became noticeable grayer...

btw, there were homeless under Clinton - big todo when the folks of one bay area community tried to shoo them all away... the city govt backed off when the public outcry was too loud. Seems that on the one hand folks didn't like the inconvenience of these folks sitting in the park near a retail area... but folks liked the idea of kicking these people around even less... Not the same for San Francisco where, if I recall, two mayors (one repub, and one dem) took a rather hardnosed approach towards the homeless - all durng Clinton's time. Now I didn't live in that area under bush1 or bush2 so I have no sense of comparison - would guess, however, based on the ever increasing costs in that area - and the ever shrinking job market - that the ranks have swollen...

[nostamj]

18. very noticible increase in NYC....

it had not been that way for years. but, I walked down 6th Avenue recently, and.... damn. such an increase!

went to a play at the Citicorp bldg. there was an encampment in front of the church doors...

Welcome to Bushworld! Abandon all hope ye who enter here.....

[MatrixEscape]

20. We linked to this article ...

The situation is very bad for the homeless. Its one thing to be in the situation, but the legal hassles and being arrested in order to "clean them up" as if they were trash, are a terrible insult and travesty. It is a slap in the face to someone who is already at the bottom of the barrel.


http://sensiblyeclectic.com/b2evolution/blogs/index.php/2004/12/20/empty_dreams

[UdoKier]

24. I'm a native El Pasoan!

Not sure about the ebb and flow of homeless in El Paso as I haven't lived there in 15 years, but there are THRONGS of homeless in San Francisco.

As El Paso has about the lowest rents & home prices in the US, it's a good place to be if you can find a halfway decent job.

I have a halfway decent job, but here in San Francisco that means a slow descent into debt. Hoping I can generate a bit more income next year from my freelance side work...

If I found myself destitute, I'd move back to El Paso. You can still get a decent apartment for $500 a month there.

That place is hell on my allergies, though. WAAAAY too dry.

[CatWoman]

27. see, I was just the opposite

I drove here to Atlanta from El Paso, and could feel my allergies kicking in the further I got away from the desert.

I stopped at this truck stop to get something to eat, and barfed all over the counter. I do that when I'm full of mucus.

That waitress wanted to kick my ass all the way back to Texas :D

[gorbal]

28. There are things you can do.

I know a few things that people can do this year. You can help out with your local chapter of the economic human rights campaign-

http://www.economichumanrights.org/members.html

You can also give to your local foodbank, some are having shortages this year-

http://www.secondharvest.org/

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. My church's program for meals for the homeless has seen major

increases in numbers. It used to be that people could get seconds after everyone else had been served. Now, with the same amount of food, it barely lasts till all the people have gotten their first servings.

[Forkboy]

26. More under the Bush family

but still plenty under Clinton too.It's a problem that not many seem to care about no matter who the President is.

[ulysses]

32. hey, it's the glory

of welfare reform, dontcha know...

:hi:

[CatWoman]

33. hey you two!!!!!!!!!

no Clinton bashing in my thread!!!!!!!

no threadjacking, either!!!!

:hi:

[salin]

34. thread jacking?

can I get in on the fun? :hi:

[ulysses]

38. Clenis!

Hey, salin!

Midori, I've been wrestling with enki and laz over the definition of agnosticism, so you know I have to come mess with your thread now. :evilgrin:

[CatWoman]

41. Rut Roh

you arguing with the Big Enk and Notorious L.A.Z.???

:hi:

[ulysses]

42. what are friends for

if you can't tussle once in a while? :D

[salin]

48. delayed response

slow computer (snow storm related... or twilight zone...??!) Locked out for awhile but now... I'mmmmmmmmmmm baaaaaaackkk...

[CatWoman]

40. LOL!!!

:hi: Salin!!!

[salin]

49. bet you aren't missing the hoosier winter about now

actually not much in Indy - but we have had 6+ inches fall within the last several hours... and are awaiting even more...

[Padraig18]

30. You're quite observant.

Even our relatively-prosperous rural community has seen a 30% increase in requests for help from our Food Bank, and the Civic Association has seen a similar increase in requests for rent help, etc. .

[catmandu57]

35. They'll send in the scoops

before you know it. My wife works for the religious left, at her christmas party, the executive director was talking about the increase of people seeking help, they're straining under the load.

It's ironic that housing starts are still in record territory, but I hear that foreclosers are up and read that the number of homeless is growing.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm laying in a large supply of seeds and canning supplies for next year and hoping I'm not too late.

[ArkDem]

36. In Little Rock all of the homeless camps were downtown

under the bridges. Just before the Clinton library opened there was a move by city government to relocate them but they were met with protests from the people. Then the camps were mysteriously destroyed.

[leftofthedial]

37. In Denver

they beg at nearly EVERY corner in every part of town.

More ubiquitous than Starbucks.

[MsUSA]

39. I gave my husbands gloves, the ones he was WEARING away to

a man carrying a mat and satchel over his back. It was last Sunday, and it was the really first cold day of the season. We saw this man walking down the street and noticed he didn't have any mittens or gloves on. I told my husband to stop next to him, I then asked my husband to give me the gloves he was wearing, and proceeded to give them to the man. When we got close, I gave him the gloves, and he said, "God bless you". I said thank you, we drove away, and I just burst out crying. I felt that giving those gloves was such a tiny thing and just wished I could do more for everyone else who needed gloves, or a place to keep warm, or food or just anything to make their lives better. It's just so overwhelming the help so many people need now days.

[Danmel]

43. Not just in the U.S. either

When we were in Vancouver this summer, I was really struck by the large numbers of homeless people. A lot of them were pretty strung out too. Vancouver has a big drug problem and also draws lots of homeless because it is very temperate,especially for Canada. There were quite a few homeless in Seattle too.

In NY, they just seem to have moved a lot of the homeless off to some other world- I know they didn't just all clean up get jobs and recover their sobriety.. I just don't know where they put them all- I;m sure they are still out there.

It is a very complex problem with lots of contributing causes- this admin's policies certainly can't help though.

[Skittles]

44. you are correct, Midori

there ARE more homeless, more people living in poverty and despair. Don't look for the corporate media to report on it though.

[Name removed]

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[libpunkmom]

47. Huge homeless

problem in Portland. I live downtown so it's something I see everyday. If I gave $1 to every person that asked me for money on a daily basis, I would have to carry around at least $100-$150 a day. I take my son to school on the "trolley" every morning, on the really cold, rainy mornings, usually one car is full of people camping out, some of the drivers let them camp out for at least on full "run through" just so they can get warm. It's heart breaking to see 2-5 homeless kids sleeping in a doorway right next to a toy store every morning. The public library (Central-main branch) opens at 10 am. Homeless people start lining up around 9:45, they use the restrooms to wash up, change clothes, taking care of their basic hygiene the best they can. An article in Rolling Stone (roughly 2 years ago) was written by a writer who followed a group of "gutter punks" (their name for themselves) around the country. Portland was ranked as their 2nd favorite city in the country (Eugene was #1) because of our social programs for homeless youth and because we are one of the few cities that allows "spanging". I have worked with homeless kids for nearly 15 years (started in college & worked in social services until I quit 4 years ago) and I have seen the homeless problem continuously grow.

[0007]

50. I was living in NYC in the eighties during King Reagan's reign

Man, there was no many homeless, the shelters were filled every night. Every morning before I left for work I made sure I had plenty of change and one dollar bills.

You ain't seen nothin' yet my dear, this is just a prelude, preliminary or preface. The Requiem of The United States is being written this very moment.

[zann725]

53. It actually started during Reagan era...in the early 80's.

I remember clearly. Prior to that, it was pretty much restricted to inner city, skid row areas.

During the 80's the social programs began being cut, mental hospitals turned droves of sick into the streets, and unemployment rose dramatically (in major industries like Steel, auto and other Union jobs which provided 'livable' wage...as well as Farming industry, etc.)

[Danmel]

59. Gentrification didn't help either

Lots of SRO's which provided cheap housing, particularly for mentally ill homeless people who had SSI income were closed down to make way for pricey coops and condos. There was no where for homeless people to go and very little in the way of follow up mental health care when people were forced out of mental hospitals. If we treated physically ill people the way we treat mentally ill people, the outcry would be unbelievable.

[michaelwb]

54. I remember last winter

We had a stretch of record cold last winter in the Boston area. I was standing at a bus stop and there was a local tv news crew huddled in a van. Periodically they would leap out and ask some one what they thought of the incredible cold weather.

After a while they came to me and I said, "Well days like today I'm just grateful I have a home with heat to go to. So when I go home I'm sending a check to a homeless shelter to help those who don't."

The reporter yelled stop and glared at me. I watched the newcast later. Naturally I wasn't there. Instead we had a bunch of folks saying stuff like "Wow it's so cold! Go Pats!"

[rman]

56. darn liberal media

self-censorship seems so innocent. gotta wonder what sort of things reporters would write about if they wouldn't censor themselves.