The Bushites can't believe that people will fight for their own country!

[Sara Beverley]

The Mosul bombing that killed 14 US soldiers and others seems to have taken the administration, the media, and the American people by utter surprise. WTF? They are making the "insurgents" (I call resistence) out to be the most horrible people on earth. Just because they don't announce "shock and awe" doesn't mean they are not capable of it. Damn!!! We are in their country for God's sake. What do we think it should be like? Why the hell don't we just get out and save lives instead of getting more people killed.

And this bullshit about we can't leave now beacuse we will get the same result as Reagan did when he pulled out of Lebanon, and Clinton did when he pulled out of Somalia, and like what happened when we pulled out of Viet Nam.

Will somebody please tell me WTF happened in those countries when we pulled out? Are these countries now surviving our departure? Are the people less safe because we pulled out? Did either of these nations attack us, plan to attack us. Are they a threat to us now?
PEOPLE, PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU SWALLOW THE BUSH/RUMSFELD/NEO-CON KOOL-AID!!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Personally, I think the longer we stay

the worse the situation will become. Of course, we should have never gone in there in the first place.

[Worst Username Ever]

2. The difference is that we did not completely destroy the

infrastructure of Somalia, Lebanon, or Vietnam. They could still make electricity, etc. I am in favor of turning this over to international peace keepers, but someone has to stay there.

Incidentally, just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are "Swallowing the bush/rumsfeld/neo-con kool-aid." Labeling people who disagree with you is the republican game, not the lib game.

[Johonny]

8. I'm pretty sure

Nixon did destroy the infrastructure of North Vietnam.

[Worst Username Ever]

9. Even if that is the case, they still had a functioning government.

Iraq doesn't even have that, thanks to *.

[Johonny]

11. No they didn't

The South Vietnamese government was a series of propped up hacks ever since the American induced revolt. There's a reason they fell over right after US forces left.

[Worst Username Ever]

13. I'm referring to the communist North.

The government WE assisted fell quickly. The established government of the north took over the south. They had a functioning government, more so that Iraq does. I would argue that is why they (vietnam) are at least somewhat stable today.

[Johonny]

16. Well

The north Kurds have a nice stable government.

[Worst Username Ever]

17. If the northern Kurds invade and conquer the south,

then I guess that would be analogous to Vietnam.

[Sara Beverley]

20. And just as bloody!

The Kurds are no angels. They massacred thousands of Iraqis and were trying to overthrow Saddam's regime. We might agree with their aim but it remains that they tried to overthrow a government. When you do that, you suffer the consequences. As we are now learning.

[diamond14]

10. TRUE. nixon did what bush* is doing: defoilated their land with Agent

Orange (dioxins)...making sure the NOTHING will ever grow there....demolished large parts of Vietnam with napalm, gigantic bombs and LOTS LOTS of bombs, all the time....hit them with LOTS of chemical warfare....burned their villages, poisoned their water, burned their crops, defoiliated their fields and bulldozed and tanked their cities.....


just like Falluja...there wasn't a whole lot left of Vietnam after nixon....and bush* is following in nixon's footsteps....

amazingly, Vietnam looks pretty good today....they did fairly well after we left...and despite nixon's continuous screaming about COMMUNISM will take over the world...it simply didn't happen....there was no DOMINO effect...the whole war was a BIG LIE....

[Johonny]

12. Well those that survived

I believe there was a period of civil war then mass genocide and the installment of a communist dictatorship with little civil rights right after we left.


Nixon fought the war as a political wedge between China and the Soviet Union. Which in many was worked. I cost all involved a lot of resources and brought all three to the bargaining table. All it cost to do this was the mass murder of countless in Vietnam and Cambodia. To Nixon it really wasn't a domino theory adventure.

[Sara Beverley]

18. Hey, I get to define what "swallowing the kool-aid means."

Just because it doesn't meet you definition of swallowing the kool-aid doesn't mean they aren't.

[Worst Username Ever]

21. It doesn't mean they are, either.

[CrispyQ]

3. Unlike our country, where it seems

millions of Americans are not willing to fight for OUR democracy.

Little frogs in the pot of water that is heating up, unaware of what is really going on.

[StClone]

5. Would a major immigration of homeless Iraqis

Bring life back to the our Democracy?

(Remember all those NeoCons chirping how we invaded Iraq to liberate them? Well what better way than bring them here to enjoy freedom. They'd soon be bitch'n and moaning about them having too much freedom.)

[GetTheRightVote]

4. Fundimentally I agree with you, they will fignt but need help too

That is where an international group lead by the UN should step in but only after we leave period for the Iraqians to rebuild their country long after the monster has gone, * & admin.

[plcdude]

6. I agree

but so many believe the "if you are not for us, you are against us" crap. The longer we stay the longer the retribution against us will last. Their revenge against us will last generations. They will not ever forget what we have done to them. And they will not let us forget either. Not only was this invasion morally bankrupt from the start, it is catastrophically stupid.

[Caledonia]

7. As a Scot

I agree with you. We really should have moved on by now, but being taken over by England is ingrained in our souls. We have never fogiven England for taking our independence and we are still fighting for that, although it is an almost impossible task. I still vote SNP in the dream it will eventually happen.

Iraqis will never forget what these past 15 years have done to them and who delivered it. I myself, will never forget the scenes that I have witnessed... so why should they?

[pen dragon]

14. Republican warhawks

they go out of their way to invade someone's country, then remonstrate like the victims when their troops get shot at.

all the while circling above out of harm's way

[agarrett1]

15. What happened, you ask?

OK, I'll bite:

Lebanon: Two pullouts here. Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon inspired Hezbollah. It taught the PLO that a sufficient number of casualties, however inflicted, will get them the results they want. They became more aggressive, and Israel has suffered immensely for it. Reagan's pullout from Lebanon has been cited by bin Laden as one of the proof's that we are weak, and will crumple if attacked - doubtless part of his own inspiration to attack us.

It should go without saying, but Lebanon is scarcely in a better situation for these pullouts. They are still an occupied country, only now they are occupied by Syria.

Somalia: Again, cited by bin Laden as more proof that the U.S. is a paper tiger. Somalia, again, has not exactly improved since our pull out either.

Viet Nam: After we left, the South Vietnamese government fell quickly. Over 100,000 people fled the country in any way possible, leading to one of the truly great exoduses (exodi?) of boat people. It is unclear how many thousands died in the escape. The North Vietnamese took over, and quickly opened re-education camps. While they were mere pikers compared to their neighbors the Khmer Rouge, they are still estimated to have killed over 200,000 people directly - and that is both a very conservative estimate, and excludes the massive number of indirect kills.

Drew Garrett

[Sara Beverley]

19. And just how has any of that affected our own security?

Lebanon was a beautiful place (like Iraq) until Israel invaded.

Samolia has not improved, ok, but they are not worse off either.

And just how many did the US kill in Viet Nam. And if 200,000 escaped isn't that better for them. Nevertheless, we have normalized relations with Viet Nam and their country has not been totally destroyed. They may not be living under the kind of regime we want, but that's their problem to deal with. Right now, I am not living under the kind of regime I want either.

Had we not gone into any of those places, Bin Laden whould not have had any "proof," as you call it, of anything. And Bin Laden did not attack us because we pulled out of any country. We were attacked precisely because we would not pull out of Saudi Arabia!