Negativity is destructive

[hoi polloi]

When confronted with problems throw up your hands and leave. Go to Costa Rica, Canada, France, anywhere you can go to give up and leave the fight to others.
How about just standing up and fighting back instead of being so pusillanimous?
I have read so many posts here of leaving, and its annoying and aggravating to hear these people sahying, what's the use.
Now, I read that some are pondering leaving the Democratic party.
What's the matter such peopole?
You know sometimes I see why flip flop worked so well.
If you don't agree, well leave the country. Or, if you don't agree, well, leave the party. Don't agree well just give up.
Is that what democrats are supposed to be? Just give up when beleaguered?
Come on, lets get some gumption and fight!!!
Could it be that all these pusillanimous factions are really hurting the democratic cause?

[atreides1]

1. My Reply

Most want to fight, but the leadership wants to give in to the demands of the Republicans. The leadership wants to water down the definition of pro-choice, they want gays to go back into the closet but not close the door.

What the leadership should be doing is to lead, they should be pointing out that pro-life, at least the true definition of the term,
means from birth to adult hood, not protection for the fetus and then wipe out any and all social programs that can help the child.

What the leadership needs to do is to point out that gays getting married isn't a danger to heterosexual marriages.

Being a former soldier, I would not obey the orders of a commander who told me to surrender when I still had the means to resist, worst
case I would shoot him on the battlefield for cowardice, and continue to fight. Well we can't do anything like that to the leadership of the Democratic party, and we sure as hell don't want to surrender when we still have the means to resist.

If we can get rid of the cowards who want to surrender, and put those that will fight with us, then we should stay, but we "troops"
are only asked for an opinion when the leadership wants money come election time.

I say we need to get rid of those who would sell us out, and place real leaders in charge, tell us how we can do it, and I'm sure we'll stay.

[hoi polloi]

2. You must admit that

many just give up and leave the country or the party. My point was that people shouldn't do that.

[DireStrike]

3. "Leaving" the party is a form of fighting.

One can still vote Dem.

I'm just one guy. Of course I'll do all I can. But if the Dem establishment proves intractable, they can enjoy their ride to the bottom.

[unkachuck]

4. the parties are playing good cop, bad cop....

....a corporate shell-game in which we'll never find the pea....I'm not sure where to go, but the Democratic Party as it now exist, isn't....unless you think it can be reform itself from the top down?....but that would require big-money and corporations to be generous with their wealth and power....AND move out of the way of the people....impossible....

[AndyTiedye]

5. How?

Is that what democrats are supposed to be? Just give up when beleaguered?

I don't think "beleagured" captures the magnitude of the disaster we have suffered this year.

Come on, lets get some gumption and fight!!!

How do we fight them?
They own the news. They own the voting machinez. We can never win as long as these conditions continue.

We can take to the streets, as we have been doing for the past 4 years,
but it will continue to be all but unreported in the Rethug-owned media.

Tax resistance is counterproductive, because the IRS just gets more $$$
out of you in the end in penalties. Leaving the country and earning
your income elsewhere, otoh, is a legal way to avoid paying US taxes
(you still have to file, but you get a credit for foreign taxes paid).
I am not prepared to take that step, but I cannot fault those who do.

Do you have any suggestions as to how we fight the regime?

[ChairOne]

7. Boy am I glad we had Rosa Parks back in the day....

... rather than some of the other potentialities that seem to hold sway in these parts...

[AndyTiedye]

8. I'm Glad That Back In the Day People Could Hear About Rosa Parks

> Boy am I glad we had Rosa Parks back in the day....

Would Rosa Parks's actions have had any effect at all
if the media had refused to report them?

[Algomas]

6. Guerrilla campaigning...

I think the Chimp painting on display above the Holland Tunnel in NYC is a brilliant example of bang for the buck marketing. The Yes Men Bhopal media manipulation was also very well executed. If we could develop a marketing strategy that would saturate every city and town in Amerika using the weapons of satire, we could bring this beast to its knees. We need to take control of the message. The Democrap leadership is corrupt and complicit in the assassination of liberty and must be driven out of the party.
I have an out if the situation deteriorates into a total police state but I intend to stay and fight as long as possible.

The Democraps should proceed as if the 04 campaign is still alive. Kerry has some $50 mill in his pocket left over from November. They should be using that money to push our agenda:
peace, justice, environment, jobs, healthcare, retirement security, education.
Instead we get a move to the right from these cowardly whores.

We need an agressive MoveOn now more than ever!!

[G_j]

9. I also get tired

of hearing people lecture me or anyone about "standing up and fighting".
Do they understand that some of the people they are addressing have been fighting like hell for twenty, thirty or more years?
Do they know that some have made literally thousands of calls to their reps, visited their offices, stood in in the rain and snow on street corners etc. etc.? Do they know that some of us have fought against every war since Vietnam, civil rights, nuclear weapons, environmental destruction, policies in Central America, Apartheid, gay rights, GMOs, women's rights, the prison industrial complex, the military industrial complex, media consolidation, the SOA, NAFTA, been arrested, beat up, you get the picture?
Do they understand that some people have children that they want to bring up in a non-fascist environment?
Do they realize that some people are getting on in years and have health problems?

IMHO, you need to KNOW WHO you are addressing. Making blanket statments on the internet is easy but you do not know people's individual circumstances or experiences.

[Arianrhod]

10. Thank you.

Many have put their freedom, careers and even lives on the line for a Democratic leadership that has done nothing but sell us down the river. I knew we were lost when Kerry magically received the nomination over the grassroots choice, Dean. A mainstream filthy rich Bonesman who wouldn't even defend his earned medals, instead of a firebrand modern William Jennings Bryan who was mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore. Now, I understood and acknowledged that Dean could not win the presidency in 04. He was far too Liberal and had too much backbone. But he would've served a different purpose: He would've drawn public attention to the crimes the Republicans were committing. It was hard to get Kerry into the papers; it would've been impossible to keep Dean out. That's why, IMO, the DLC shoved him aside.

I can no longer support a group of men and women who are nothing more than Republicans in sheep's clothing. I will vote Democratic in those places where it is essential to kick the Republicans out, but the rest of my vote is going elsewhere.

The fight in our country is now beyond the national ballot box. We need to regroup into community grassroots movements, take back our cities and counties and states, and then kick everyone in Washington out on their asses.

This is a long-term struggle. While I believe we can make inroads in what remains of my lifetime, I don't think the full fruit will be borne before I'm gone. Still, I'm not giving up the fight. I'm just giving up those who have already gone to the other side.