A message to those of you pissing on Reggie White's grave.

[liberalhistorian]

I've been very disturbed by many of the comments in the Reggie White threads. Frankly, there were times when I thought I was in Freak Republic or some other bastion of wingnut hate.

Whatever you may think of White, he was a human being who died way too young, and who left behind a wife and children who loved and needed him and family and friends who loved him. He does not deserve the kind of hateful, vicious vitriol that spewed forth from some DUer's computers these past couple of days.

Some of those who were responsible for that also have posted about their disgust over freeper reactions to the deaths or medical misfortunes of Dems and liberals, and patted themselves on the back for being so much better than that. Well, guess what? You ARE NOT better than that, you ARE NOT superior. Your posts were exactly the same kind of hateful, bigoted vitriol you condemn freepers for saying. There is no difference. And there is no excuse for that. And you've not only made yourselves look bad, you've given us a black eye as well. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

And for the record, I did not agree with much of what White said, and I certainly didn't appreciate his gay-bashing and hatefulness toward too many groups. But, as I said, he was a human being who died far too young, and he does not deserve to have people spitting and pissing on his grave.

[sir_captain]

1. Agreed

He also apologized for a lot of what he said, and I obviously don't know if he was being honest or not, but I guess I'm willing to take him at his word.

[umtalal]

2. A sincere question; Who is Reggie White?

[Goldeneye]

5. He played for the packers...and some other football team.

He even had a Mcdonalds hamburger named after him for awhile, at least in Wisconsin.

[October]

91. Philadelphia Eagles...

[jmowreader]

195. He also played for the Panthers

[lcbart]

216. Some other team?

Do you mean some other team who regularly spanks the Packers ?

Like the Philadelphia eagles perhaps ?:spank:

[liberalhistorian]

8. He was a former football

star who played for the Packers; he died yesterday at age 43 of what they believe is a heart attack. He was also a fundie Christian who made a lot of statements bashing gays and other groups.

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

9. He was

one of the greatest NFL players of all time imo. Will be in the hall of fame soon. He was also a devout Christian/minister.

[umtalal]

17. Thank you all. A christian that bashed gays makes one think. I hope he is

in peace now. Man, I am 44 years old and I am thankful I am alive.

[0007]

102. A few more breaths and you'll be where Reggie is!

[NightTrain]

19. Reggie White was a devout Christian/minister?

Then I'm gladder than ever to be an atheist!

[liberalhistorian]

23. Dean, White was not

representative of what a true Christian should be, he was too hateful and judgmental. That does NOT give people the right to dance on his grave and rejoice in his far too untimely death, that's just sick.

[October]

93. There are a lot of ugly attitudes on this Board

It seems to be getting worse. No one knows what to do with their pent up frustrations and anger toward * and the Dems, I guess.

I've learned what not to click on.








Edited subject line.

[Ladyhawk]

149. Except this particular thread...

Hehe.

I'm trying to find the right path. Just because someone dies doesn't mean you should change opinions, but dancing on their grave...I don't know.

After Reagan died, I wrote a spoof song about him in order to protect my sanity. People were singing his praises like he was some kind of saint. My song wasn't really hateful. It just pointed out some of the vile things Reagan did while president.

I've found in my personal life that forgiveness doesn't work. If I forgive, I just get hit again. Being hateful doesn't work, either. I'm really quite baffled. I'd like to think there's a path somewhere down the middle where a person can recognize that a person is toxic, is evil, etc. without becoming hateful themselves.

When I cut off relationships with my family, most of my anger evaporated. I still have flashes of anger when something triggers a particularly painful memory, but I'm hoping that will go away. I'm also very lonely, but hopefully that will go away, as well.

I still don't understand what the right path is. Turning the other cheek isn't right for me; nor is becoming hateful.

Any ideas on how to find a positive middle path?

[liberalhistorian]

166. It seems like you're trying to do

just that (finding a middle path), you're not forgiving but you're not hateful, either. I understand why it's hard for you to forgive, given what you've said about your father and your family. Forced forgiveness never works. But hatred doesn't work either, you may feel better initially, but it makes things a lot worse in the long run. Believe me, I've found that out the very hard way.

[Ladyhawk]

184. You're right. Hatred eats at a person's soul.

I have to find a way to remember that I'll get hurt without holding onto the emotion of that hurt. I wish I were a wiser person.

[Geek_Girl]

186. Being Positive and Surrounding Yourself with

Positive people. Meditation or Prayer will go a long way. Also try reading positive material or watching movies you enjoy and get out away from the computer and TV and have some fun.

[October]

199. Just being able to dialog

with people of like-mind helps.

I can relate to all of what you wrote. Cutting off family members, etc. I don't want to become as reactionary as some freeper-types...and I feel that's happening a lot around DU. So many of us are very keyed up. We're leaderless and angry -- and have to listen to the right's hatred. It can be overwhelming. I find taking a day off every now and then helps. I escape into art (painting/drawing) or just totally indulge in a lot of family time with my husband and children. I've long since turned off the news, too.

I think your chosen path works. For instance, Reggie White may have been quite offensive at times, and you don't have to have loved him to be compassionate or understanding when it comes to his family's loss.

For me, I have to be able to sleep at night. I can't turn into a freeper, consumed with hatred. It's not easy these days...because I seriously do not understand/get the other side. But I don't want to be evil/mean.

Peace.

[tabasco]

170. Death does not change how a person lived his life.

Death is not a pardon for how one lived.

I do not excuse a person's hatefulness merely because he dies.

But if it makes you feel better, I haven't bashed him yet.


Hi LH :hi:

[Shrubhater]

220. Ditto!

:)

[Massacure]

14. A damn good defensive lineman in the National Football League

He anchored the Philadelphia Eagle's gang green defense, and when he signed with Green Bay Packer's he helped turn the tides. He helped lead the Packers to the Super Bowl, and when they got there, he helped them win when he got three quarterback sacks.

[raggedcompany]

98. read this if you wanna know who Reggie White was

Reggie White was a peerless football player with an oversize personality and charisma. He was also a Reverend (since the age of 17) and much bally-hooed "man of God." The cameras were always focusing on his 50 yard line pre- and post-game prayers. You couldn't ask him about a game without hearing something about Jesus. Seriously. He played for three teams. 8 years with the Eagles, then 3 or 4 for the Packers, with whom he won a Super Bowl, and then one last year at one of those podunk southern teams I don't bother to remember. No serious football fan would place him out of the top ten, or even top five, defensive players in NFL history. He was just incredible in every football aspect.

Now that he's dead, everyone is lining up to smoke his hog, breathlessly, vainly fawning over him like sports sycophants so often do when one of their obsessions passes out of reach. Death apparently gives you a pass on racism and homo-hating. Some of us don't forget though, and I for one don't care who I piss off by pointing out that Reggie White was hardly a great man.

Here is the transcript of White's address to the Wisconsin legislature on April Fool's day (appropriately enough) 1998. He's got some interesting things to say about the correlation between homosexuals and the proliferation of STDs, and some more interesting things to say about how many people Puerto Ricans can jam into an apartment.

There are several other quotes passing around. He had it in for gays especially, but his racial comments were just as off the wall.

Another curious article I've seen quotes him as saying: "I don't want to have nothing to do with Christianity," said White, who has been a minister since he was 17. "I do want to have something to do with the Jewish Messiah who died for my sins, but I don't want to have nothing to do with Christianity." Apparently, Reggie was involved in some way with a church burning, or with someone accused of it. I don't know the details, and don't care to follow up on it. Likely he had nothing to do with it, I imagine.

There was also a story kicking around about Reggie promising money to a school, and failing to deliver. Here it is. And here is Reggie's response at the time. I haven't been able to learn if he finally made good on the promise or not.

That should give a quick summary of the dude. I'm not gonna spit on the man's memory, but I will spit on the disgusting attempts by those who are trying to turn him into some kind of god damned hero saint, "moral" man.

[LoZoccolo]

3. A lot of people here generally don't see...

...that hate is a human failing we're all vulnerable to, and it's here just like it is over at Free Republic. Same thing with the hypocrisy of denying it, along with telling everyone that it's counterrevolutionary or something to call them on it.

[liberalhistorian]

16. Exactly!

The hypocrisy of claiming we're better than the freepers, and then acting just like them when something like this happens, is really aggravating and upsetting.

[KnowerOfLogic]

155. So being anti-bigot is no better than being a bigot? wow, have i been

wrong!

[LoZoccolo]

161. Stupid. So stupid.

Grow up.

[KnowerOfLogic]

187. I'm sorry; could you elaborate on that? Don't be afraid to offer detailed

factual and logical support for your apparent belief that being anti-bigot is no better than being pro-bigot.

[LoZoccolo]

190. I'm not going to.

It won't help - you just need to grow up. I'm not going to waste my time on someone who starts out by misrepresenting what I said in a pointed accusation. So don't bother me.

[liberalhistorian]

167. NO, that is

NOT what I'm saying at all! Why is it so hard to understand that I'm NOT saying it's okay to turn him into a sainted hero and ignore his bigotry and hatefulness? I'm simply saying that it's wrong to rejoice in/celebrate his death and to dance and piss on his grave. We hate it when the freepers do it, it's hypocritical of us to do it.

[KnowerOfLogic]

189. I'm not dancing on his grave, but i do object to him being remembered

as a "great guy," when in fact, he was a bigot. In the MSM you don't hear a whole lot about the latter part, and all i'm saying is tell the truth. Thing is though, that a lot of people, especially in men's sports, don't actually think that being a gay-hater is a bad thing, which is all the more irking and a reason to speak out.

[SnowBack]

197. Exactly!

I have seen nothing in the media about his bigotry... They just keep explaining what a great guy he was... Not sure why I'd expect anything different though... :grr:

[ruggerson]

201. I think very few people did that

Most of the discussion focused on the argument of whether opposing bigotry is somehow bigoted in and of itself.

Personally, I think the far rightwing Christians have perfected a bogus little strawman. Their stance now is: "If you oppose me in my bigoted belief system, I will cry religious bigotry and thus put you and I on an equal moral playing field."

They equate fighting bigotry itself with limiting their religious freedoms. They pretend they see it as a religious belief system to have "moral" beliefs that some people are less worthy than others.

That, imho, is the crux of the discussion. Not Reggie White.

[Massacure]

4. Amen.

The people who you describe give DU a bad name and should be banned.

[oldhat]

6. Who cares?

Some asshole millionaire football player croaks. That guy was an ignorant bigot, too.

There are more important things to think about.

[LoZoccolo]

11. I would agree that we should prioritize what we spend time with.

And with that, I send you off. :hi:

[liberalhistorian]

30. Now, see, that's

exactly what I'm talking about! I agree that there are better things to worry about, but we shouldn't be spitting on his grave, either.

[donheld]

74. I won't spit/dance on his grave

but don't expect me or many other gay's to shed many tears over Mr White. I'll save my sorrow for the 25,000+ who died in and around Sri Lanka.

[Bluebear]

7. I was disturbed by what a lot of apologists wrote too

His gaybashing was only a "little" thing, etc. I don't celebrate anyone's death but I can't laud him as a hero either.

[liberalhistorian]

12. Agreed. I understand what

you're saying, but I don't think people were lauding him as a hero, either.

[Zomby Woof]

10. I would never piss or spit on his grave

I might shit on his skull and mail it to Dick Cheney, however.

[liberalhistorian]

21. ZW, you are a

hopeless case, and I'm not even going to bother!! :evilgrin:

[Zomby Woof]

25. I think of myself as a...

Hopeful 12-pack.

[NightTrain]

13. Fuck Reggie White.

Anybody who says such nasty, mean-spirited things about my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters is human garbage who did the world a favor by kicking the bucket at 43. Good fucking riddance!

[sir_captain]

18. You're totally fucking wrong

Considering that my grandfather passed away twenty minutes ago, I'm in an all too painful understanding of what gets left behind...

You should have some fucking compassion for his family. They didn't say anything wrong.

[liberalhistorian]

32. Thank you, and

I'm really sorry about your grandfather. Mine died three years ago and I still miss him like crazy. And yes, his family certainly deserves compassion and caring right now.

[sir_captain]

33. I just don't understand

how someone can call themselves a liberal and not try to have empathy, even for people with whom he/she disagrees.

[liberalhistorian]

38. True enough, and

I don't understand it either. What especially gets me are the superior attitudes, when we can be just as bad as the freepers in situations like this.

[jdj]

39. it comes from watching thousands of people die from AIDS

for six years before Reagan ever said the word in public.

It comes from being gay baited and bashed.

It comes from being denied civil rights.

(and from wondering why a black man like White can't understand that).

I feel nothing.

sorry.

[sir_captain]

42. So because

a man made bigoted comments, you feel no sympathy for his family--people who did not do anything wrong as far as we know.

I'm sorry, but that's fucking pathetic.

[sonicx]

44. No, White himself, not his family.

[jdj]

45. you have enough emotion in your post for everyone here.

I need a screed shield to fend off the trauma vibes.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jdj]

52. the last thing I would be doing is posting here if family of mine

had died (I think).

I could be wrong.

But why are you over-identifying with this football player?

Want to talk about some of the wonderful, beautiful, gay men I have seen leave this planet thanks to AIDS in the last coupla decades? I know they are probably just faggots to Reggie White fans, but if you have, say, a few hours...

[sir_captain]

53. How about

because it's the middle of the fucking night, and I don't want to wake people up and bother them with my troubles and am trying to distract myself. Or is that not ok with you?

I am not identifying with Reggie White at all--I am identifying with his family. My grandfather was hardly a perfect man--I didn't agree with his politics and a lot of the choices he made. But he was still a good man and a good grandfather, and I will miss him a lot. Is that concept really too difficult for you to understand?

I'm not sure why you're lecturing me on AIDS. I have had the misfortune of having many friends die from it as well as watching far too many more strangers die from it in the ER. I am not, nor never was a Reggie White fan.

[jdj]

58. about 25000 folks just passed away around Asia.

I've shed my tears for them and their families today.

I'll excuse you for your misdirected anger and heightened emotional state.

I would say you are angry and are posting here to vent.

Innappropriate, but cost-effective, and I've been guilty of this too at times, using DU to dump garbage emotions on innocent people. I'm taking it with a grain of salt, sorry about your grand-dad, and hope you feel better soon. No one can replace a loved one, so you'll be in my prayers.

[sir_captain]

62. While I appreciate your sentiment

damn...you are really condescending

[Shrubhater]

221. The equivilent of the entire population of Painesville!

[itzamirakul]

87. Sorry about your grandfather...

but, I, too, wonder why you are arguing this topic at this time in your life? Wouldn't it be more soothing to go to the inspirational forum?

My question is: How can a person who is bigoted and a racist also be considered a "good" person? Doesn't make much sense to me. That is tantamount to the southerners teaching their children that slaves had "kind" masters. How can someone who OWNS you also be kind?

I have no doubt that you loved your grandad, may he rest in peace....but you, yourself, say he was not perfect.

The way a person conducts himself/herself during their lifetime determines how people feel about them at their death. It would be hypocritical for people to say they are sorry that so-and-so died if they really were NOT sorry.

Spend some time with the bible or some other soothing meditation and don't waste time arguing about a dead athlete, who also was not perfect.

[liberalhistorian]

54. I understand, believe me, I do,

and I'm not asking or expecting you to have sympathy for him. I'm simply asking for some dignity in not rejoicing in/celebrating his death, and for some compassion for his family. There's a difference between that and feeling sorrow or sympathy for him.

[itzamirakul]

89. Do you think that White's family is

reading the forums at DU to see what people are writing about him?

[Boosterman]

145. I truly hope not :( n/t

[donheld]

73. I'm sorry for your loss

:hug:

[traco]

75. Sorry to hear of your loss

:hug:

[put out]

127. The missus said plenty, just as Mr. White did. Look it up.

Out of the same can of peaches, the two were. They deserved each other. Mean-spirited, nasty, racist, homophobic, small-minded...well, need I say I do not rejoice in his death, but his grieving wife ought to take a real hard look at herself. May God or whomever show more mercy to Reggie upon his demise than she ever showed to those who walk this earth.

They didn't say anything wrong? Bullshit.

[Prodemsouth]

132. His wife refered to Gays and Lesibans as the sodomite community.

His wife was white btw. They found no problem at all bashing gays with folks that hated their relationship just as much at another time (not that long ago) . When they lost that battle they moved on to bash another group that was fighting for their rights and Reggie White and his wife were there to help- big time. I don't feel sorry for any of them.

[liberalhistorian]

168. I'm not asking anyone to

mourn his death or to even pretend to mourn his death, or to sweep what he said and did under the rug like it doesn't matter. I'm simply saying that it's wrong to rejoice in his death and to dance/spit/piss on his grave. We're supposed to be better than that.

[Dinger]

163. sir_captain, i Am So Sorry

My condolences to you and your family.:grouphug:

[ruggerson]

205. Actually, his wife defended all his bigoted remarks

And said, at the time, that CBS "wimped" out by supposedly "caving" in to gay and lesbian pressure groups and not hiring White as a sportscaster, a job for which he had been considered prior to his homophobic tirades.

Very sorry to hear about your loss. Peace to your family.

[liberalhistorian]

20. Now see, Dean, that's exactly

what I'm talking about. You don't have to like the guy or agree with him, but you don't have to rejoice in his death and dance on his grave, either. That's being just as bad. We're no better than the freepers we condemn when we do that.

[AngryOldDem]

169. You (and others here)

Need to find a more constructive outlet for your anger before it consumes you.

[sampsonblk]

183. He was a christian minister, what did you THINK he believed?

Not speaking of you directly, but I can't understand how so many people sang Reggie White's praises even after they knew he was a christian minister. What did anyone THINK he believed in?

A lot of ministers won't say it publicly, for fear of being shouted down. The difference is that reggie White actually stood for what he believed in, and said this stuff out loud.

[SnowBack]

198. Not all ministers are anti-Gay...

So saying he was a minister means nothing... Ministers in the United Church of Christ or MCC aren't bigots like he was... and they stand up for what they believe in - the dignity and equality of all people.

[sampsonblk]

211. You're right, only the ones who go by the book are anti-gay

The ones who believe the bible is the true and literal word of God are anti-gay.

[SnowBack]

212. Fundamentalists are anti-Gay...

and don't eat shellfish either, right? Or divorce? Or wear two fabrics together?

There were lots of ministers who used to pick things out of the bible to support slavery too...

So?.... :eyes:

[sampsonblk]

213. Dm straight!

This is the nature of today's christian "movement," of which Reggie White was a part. There are pet issues, and you can almost guarantee where the participants will stand on those.

As you say, they pick and choose. Pretty funny, too. This is the only way they can claim to be pro-life and still support the Iraq Disaster.

Not speaking of Reggie White, but there are plenty of literal preachers who still think God condoned slavery. They use the same bogus bible quotes from over 150 years ago. Amazing!

Reggie White didn't hide his faith. Anyone should have known how he felt about gays. Did anyone ever ask him about abortion?

[JimmyJazz]

15. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You have said what I have

been thinking! I know he was a flawed human being, but he's dead and he left behind a family. I know his opinions are not popular on these boards, but he died way before his time. I am sorry for his unpopular beliefs, but I am more sorry for some of the vitriol I have seen on these boards. I thought we were supposed to be the compassionate ones.

[Dinger]

164. Amen JimmyJazz!

Boy, is this thread great! Thank you!

[NightTrain]

22. There's a difference between being a liberal and being a phony.

And I'd be a major phony if I pretended to give a shit about Reggie White's death. Unlike far too many of the people around these parts, I don't have a Mother Teresa complex. As such, I feel absolutely no remorse about calling a bigoted, homophobic piece of shit a bigoted, homophobic piece of shit.

To be even more blunt: I hope Reggie White is in a special circle of hell that's filled to overflowing with giant, erect penises!

[Bluebear]

24. OK now I have that imagery dancing around

nt

[sir_captain]

27. Give me a break

Why don't you stop admiring yourself for a moment. There's a big difference between a "mother teresa" complex and having compassion for the man's family. The man said some awful stuff--he also apologized and left behind a lot of people who should not have to pay for what he said/did.

Frankly, if you can't understand that concept, I feel a lot of pity for you.

[ProfessorGAC]

85. He NEVER Apologized!

The statement that he apologized has been bouncing around for the last 2 days, and it's NOT TRUE!

He did the normal conservative backpedal. You know, the Rumsfeldesque "I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my comments. I am sorry if they took them in the wrong way." That's not an apology! Not even close!

There's no retraction, no rethought, no introspection. An apology would be "I'm very sorry for what i said! The reaction has made me reconsider the positions that would have led to me saying such an insulting, disparaging and thoughtless thing." That would be an apology, since it would indicate that the person was willing, and likely, to rethink such hateful rhetoric.

What Reggie said was NOT an apology. Merely damage control.
The Professor

[Prodemsouth]

134. Yeah - there are some Gays that will insist that Donna Sumner the disco

singer of the 70s apologized for remarks that she made that were even worse than Reggie Whites; when in fact she just said it was misunderstanding on both sides . That she was being bashed for being a Christan too..some apology. But many gays were playing her late 80's hit in their night clubs as if everything was kiss kiss- we made up. One gay customer was telling me about this when I worked for a beverage dist. His disco bunny DJ was playing a Sumner record and he was making a face when he started to play it. We are seeing this same thing with the White apologist. If I were gay I would not forgive White or Donna Sumner.

[liberalhistorian]

28. Feeling compassion and not

rejoicing in the death of a fellow human being who left behind a family is not having a Mother Teresa complex! The next time a liberal dies and the freepers start dancing on his/her grave, I don't want a hear a word about how hateful they are and how they have no compassion, because you and similar posters are doing the same damn thing here.

[Dinger]

165. Bravo!

Again liberalhistorian, thank you!!!

[soleft]

26. Would you understand the same raw emotional responses if Rev Phelps died

unexpectedly.

The only difference I see is Rev Phelps isn't a particularly gifted athlete.

[liberalhistorian]

29. I don't think we should be

dancing on ANYONE's grave, yes, including the odious, hateful, Rev. Phelps.

[DemBones DemBones]

35. I agree. I didn't see you say that we should MOURN

people we disagree with. Don't mourn, don't dance on their graves. Be glad you're alive and hope no one will want to dance on your grave when you go.

[jdj]

40. Has he even been buried yet?

[Occulus]

68. begging your pardon, LH, but

I do believe I'm taking a trip to his burial site once he kicks off to do exactly that, literally. I sincerely apologize if you're disturbed by that, but there are some of us out there who have been emotionally mauled and/or personally destroyed (often to the point of suicide themselves) by statements from people such as "Reverend" Phelps (AND White). Speaking for myself, I wouldn't take revenge upon them during their lifetimes, but I can revel in the satisfaction that I outlived them, that I survived their spewing bigotry.

So I think we can be forgiven for being glad to have lived long enough to see a little less darkness in our society, darkness that spills over onto our everyday lives. No matter White's bigotry, he was a hero, a role model, to a lot of people (myself excluded, I don't follow football at all). For him to say what he said and then stand behind it only emboldened the people who hate us, some of whom quite literally would like to see us dead by their hands.

Statements by people such as White and the sadly too-visible Phelps are often parroted. It's this we have to deal with at school, at work, and all too often even at home; it's what keeps us from displaying much affection- if any at all- in public, what forces us into a tiny, dark closet that looks and feels more like a prison with each passing day.

Please don't judge us for being happy that the darkness is a little less complete.

[Pushed To The Left]

77. Totally different situation

Fred Phelps actually went to the funerals of gay people and picketed them, saying that "God hates fags". I have a feeling that Phelps might get a taste of his own medicine when his funeral comes, and rightfully so! I don't think Reggie White is in the same category at all. In another thread, somebody posted an article which said that White regretted the anti-gay comments.

[KnowerOfLogic]

157. Principle's the same; the passing of a bigot will not be mourned to the

degree that the passing of a non-bigot will be. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

[ruggerson]

206. Didn't he win the "Talibornagain Triathalon"? n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

31. I wouldn't waste the piss

I agree there were some "over the top" responses to his death. I feel for his family. The death of anyone is tough, it is compounded by his age and the time of the year. However, I was just a sickened by the 'apologists' that defended his statements and minimized them, as if they were simple mis-speaks. That speaks volumes about some people here at DU.

With all the pissing and moaning on this board about "Christian persecution" I wonder if the tables would have been reversed if a famous anti-religious person passed away. Say someone who spent their lives and famous standing to bask and demonize Christians as "dangerous to children." Would that person's DU eulogy be any better?

White was young and left behind a family and loved ones. I feel for their loss. But, as a gay man, do not expect an iota of sympathy from me that he is gone. He used his fame to preach intolerance and hate. He used his fame to spread vicious lies and deceptions about my entire community! He was hateful to my community and hid behind his Christianity. I don't appreciate that. He blasphemed my community and, IMHO, he blasphemed Christianity and the teachings of Jesus.

People deal with death in many ways. When someone who preached hate like this player did, those who were in the target community will lash out. I don't think he was an evil person, but to act like he was a hero is ludicrous. Just a side note: if you think this was bad, you may want to avoid DU all together when Fred Phelps kicks!

Peace.

[Zomby Woof]

34. And sports distorts the opinions more

I cracked up at the Packer fans bending over backwards to downplay his remarks and praise him. Had he been a Viking, they would be dancing a polka on his grave. That was my favorite form of hypocrisy, as only Americans can produce. He won us some football games, so don't say mean things about him!

What I like is honesty of expression, even if I vehemently disagree with what is being expressed. Far better to reveal whatever raw righteousness is gnawing at the soul, then to tut-tut us with rabid sanctimony, which does NOTHING to advance any argument about what it means to be a compassionate human being, but does succeed like a wet dream in calling attention to oneself, bludgeoning us hapless miscreants and flawed liberals with their obvious superior moral virtue.

Or as Lord Byron might say to such types, poopoo poo-poo!

[jdj]

41. that is so funny I am ashamed to laugh

(but laugh anyway).

I didn't know about the sports rivalry aspect. But that has got to be true.

[sir_captain]

47. Nonsense

despite your self-effacing argument, you are still in essence calling yourself superior to those who you consider full of "rabid sanctimony" which is, ironically, incredibly dismissive and sanctimonious of you.

I honestly, vehemently believe that someone who pisses on the still warm grave of a dead person who isn't Hitler or Bush while he/she leaves behind an innocent family is a complete fucking waste of oxygen. I'm in no way PC, am not at all interested in calling attention to myself (though I think *you* might have done that a couple of times) and am just as fucking flawed as the next guy.

[Zomby Woof]

50. And the irony of your reply is staggering

Whereas I delivered my little sermon with grace, humor, and style. ;-) I have the set of brass balls to get away with it. :P

Poopoo POO-poooo!

[sir_captain]

51. Don't forget hypocrisy

and massive ego. If I've learned nothing from you, it's to call a spade a spade.

[Zomby Woof]

56. hehehehe

I like your posts, although I use up a bit of tissue wiping your spittle off my screen.

You are correct: I am an attention whore, and I *do* like to have it both ways. It isn't hypocrisy so much as embracing the contradictions required of having a complex world view. I suppose for those more comfortable with cheap 'n' easy dichotomies, it has the illusion of hypocrisy.

Plus, there ain't a damn thing wrong with deflating the pompous screeds of others. ;-) My screeds are less pompous and more jaunty. Makes 'em more palatable to my fan base.

[sir_captain]

61. Well, I have to grant you that you're honest

And for the most part, believe it or not, I agree with you. Not sure you're less pompous, though.

In any case, you're right--you should absolutely say what you think.

[Zomby Woof]

64. All that aside

I just saw your thread in the Lounge about your grandfather. For THAT you have my sincere condolences.

Quite frankly, I am sick of the Reggie White issue, and think the pain some people on DU are feeling is far more important. And the quakes, and the war... Some others have also lost loved ones this past month, and I just can't get all frothed up about a bigoted jock.

(In all seriousness, I could say I am neither celebratory or mournful about White - I certainly don't wish ill on those who can also embrace life's contradictions and see some virtue in him where others can honestly not).

Now, you should go be with your family or take some time to reflect on your grandfather, at a time like this. Peace.

[sir_captain]

65. Thanks, Zomby

I appreciate it, and I think I'm going to go take your good advice now...

[itzamirakul]

90. How do you KNOW that his family was so innocent?

I mean, are they on record as saying that they do not believe the same things that he believed re" bigotry et al?"

Perhaps all of the members of his family shared his beliefs....

[Zenlitened]

105. For the record, his wife shared his hateful beliefs.

Saw them both being interviewed, and they were both ugly, horrible, hate-filled people.

The world is a better place without Reggie White in it. That's just reality -- a reality he himself created with his bigotry.

[liberalhistorian]

171. So, does that mean that

they're not suffering over the loss of a husband and father, and that they're not human beings, because they happen to believe things that are hateful and disgusting? I'm not saying to mourn the guy or to ignore what he said and did, I'm simply saying to show some dignity and compassion and that many of the posts regarding his death were no better than what freepers have posted about the deaths of Dems/libs.

[itzamirakul]

194. Bigots are bigots...dead or alive...and if

someone still living wants to say something unpleasant about them...well...that is their right under the first ammendment. I know that we would all like for all Democrats to be fair and balanced and honest and full of integrity and dignity and compassion...but people are poeple whatever their particular political persuasion so they do not have to follow YOUR dictates as to how they should behave in a given situation.

Personally, as a black person, I would like for all Democrats to be non-racists...but we all know THAT ain't the case...now is it? So, should I get on this board and demand that we all act the same? I don't think that you believe that either.

[Kingshakabobo]

92. Your credibility meter reached zero with this post.

Hitler and Bush both had/have families that loved/love them. They both liked/like dogs. Why is it OK to piss on their graves?

""someone who pisses on the still warm grave of a dead person who isn't Hitler or Bush while he/she leaves behind an innocent family is a complete fucking waste of oxygen""

Should we we check in with you from now on to see whose graves we can piss on?

Who are you to judge who is "a complete waste of oxygen" ?

[billbuckhead]

37. Why are we afraid to call a scumbag, a scumbag?

Wednesday, January 14, 2004

Five years later, school waiting on White.
 
Associated Press


DENVER -- A low-income elementary school is still waiting for a $50,000 donation promised five years ago by NFL star Reggie White to create a college tuition fund for 85 students.

"I'm really disappointed," Harrington Elementary Principal Sally Edwards said this week. "I think it's sad that we promised something and we didn't deliver."

White made the pledge in 1998 when his team, the Green Bay Packers, was in Denver for a preseason game against the Broncos. He gave a large cardboard mock-up of check, made out to Harrington Elementary, to the Rev. Leon Kelly, an anti-gang activist who steered White to the school.

more<http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1708287>

Republicans endlessly lie about liberals and so many of us are afraid to tell the truth about rightwingers. It's one of the reasons we struggle so.

[liberalhistorian]

57. Once again, I am not

saying that everyone should don sackcloth and ashes and mourn his death. And, once again, I am not saying he was an especially good person. I'm simply saying that it's wrong and hateful to piss on the grave of someone who died far too young and who left a family who loved and needed him behind. Not rejoicing in his death doesn't mean you have to mourn his death.

[sonicx]

60. Should we not talk about his hateful statements then?

[liberalhistorian]

173. No, that is not at

all what I'm saying! I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

[ChairOne]

178. Then can we also say....

.. that the fewer gay-hating-statement-people there are in the world, the better off the world is? Is that ok?

Or would you rather there were *more* gay-hating-statement-people in the world?

[KSAtheist]

208. Please.

So because he laments Reggie White's demise, you attempt to trap him in a fallacious all-or-nothing argument.

When you intellectually mature, you'll realize that human opinions and emotions cannot be quantified in black and white terms.

[sonicx]

36. Yes, rantings on Internet message boards make a difference...

The fate of his sole rests on what we, Democratic Underground, write about him. What have we done? :eyes:

Calling someone a bigot is not hateful if they really are one, BTW.

[jdj]

43. he knows it by now.

I tend to believe if he's in angelville he would want his bigotry pointed out for what it was so that others won't make that mistake.

[Royal Observer]

148. It's OK

to call a bigot a bigot as it is to call a spade a spade, as the saying goes.

[rocktop15]

46. AMEN

Don't think all of us are crazy here liberalhistorian. I am disgusted at the double standards I see posted here on a daily basis. It amazes me that people have this extreme indignation when it comes to freepers judging and calling things evil and ignorant........and yet........people do that here on a daily basis with all the religion bashing.

So apparently, people want tolerance----but aren't willing to earn it.

[sonicx]

48. Um, this is not about his religion

It's about his gay bashing. There are Christians right here who support gay rights, so that's no excuse unless you wanna tell me that Christians can't be for gay rights.

[Old and In the Way]

55. I don't blame Reggie White.

I blame a corporate media that gives certain people high profile exposure to convey anti-social messages like this to the public. They gave him the platform and media oxygen to make it "news".

[jdj]

59. I wonder if the gladiators in Rome dictated public opinion as well.

Punditi reading scrolls or posting stone tablets about their opinions on peers on the downus lowus or something...

[jonnyblitz]

63. your comparing us to freepers is pretty fucking weak

I am pretty sure that the Dems or liberals whose deaths that the freepers applauded weren't a bunch of hate filled bigots like this piece of shit football player was. DID YOU READ THE CRAP HE SAID ABOUT GAY PEOPLE?!?! You apologists for this asshole are really fucking making me SICK! You go right ahead and feel superior , those of us who aren't blinded by this silly self righteous sanctimony know better. :puke:

[Alyssa]

71. Reggie White

  I understand that White was actually a very kind man who was
admired and loved even by opponents. His motivation toward
homosexuals seems to have been one of a desire to help them
with what he considered to be their problem. 
   Now one may argue with his assumptions, but within his
framework it seems clear he was a great deal more motivated by
love than hate.

[Behind the Aegis]

72. Welcome..but...

Perhaps he was kind. That is wonderful. However, he was a bigot concerning gays. The notion that he had a desire to "help" us is insulting. How would he have felt if I tried to 'help' him understand that his religion was corrupt and that I had the real "truth?" Love doesn't motivate the statement that "gays are dangerous to children." Hate, fear, and stupidity motivates that statement!

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

192. Reggie White and Fred Phelps are equals in this

both are (or in White's case WAS) bigotted homophobic Christofascist FUCKS!

[ruggerson]

207. I think you're on the wrong board

[liberalhistorian]

174. Jonny, take a chill pill,

I AM NOT AN APOLOGIST FOR REGGIE WHITE! One more time, I AM NOT AN APOLOGIST FOR REGGIE WHITE! Christ, I don't see why that's so fucking hard to understand! I agree that he was a hateful bigot who did a lot of damage and that that should never be ignored and swept under the rug, and that he shouldn't be turned into a saint. I do NOT believe, however, that it's okay to rejoice in/celebrate his death, and to dance/spit/piss on his grave, like freepers love to do. That is just wrong.

[jonnyblitz]

203. you are telling ME to take a chill pill?

apparently you ran out of your supply when you started this shrill fucking thread calling all of us as bad as freepers! We are only venting our anger out on a political discussion board. Its not like we are literally flying out to Wisconsin to stand outside his families house with a bullhorn before we go to the graveyard to defile his grave! geesh :eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

66. Sadly, this is why a wingnut has two sides

There is a Dem freeper mentality that goes with the Repub freeper mentality.

[WilliamPitt]

67. Agreed

[mockmonkey]

69. And how much thought did Reggie White give

to gay teens growing up in Wisconsin? Did he care that what he was saying affected other people? Another kick to the crotch by a know everything religious jock. He stood before the State Assembly and spewed his hate in his Gods name. The sad part is that I really think his views mirror the majority in this country.

He's dead now, and in his Heaven. He's no hero and no better than Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell. I'm sure you won't read a lot of kind words when they meet their desmise either.

[TheKingfish]

70. His family will be fine

Don't forget that black people are gifted with great prayer ability -
From his speech to the Wisconsin Legislature :

White said he has thought about why God created different races. Each race has certain gifts, he said.

Blacks are gifted at worship and celebration, White said.

"If you go to a black church, you see people jumping up and down because they really get into it," he said.

Whites are good at organization, White said.

"You guys do a good job of building businesses and things of that nature, and you know how to tap into money,"

"Hispanics were gifted in family structure, and you can see a Hispanic person, and they can put 20, 30 people in one home."

THE JAPANESE AND other Asians are inventive, and "can turn a television into a watch," White said. Indians are gifted in spirituality, he said.

"When you put all of that together, guess what it makes: It forms a complete image of God," White said.

[roguevalley]

76. He was a hate-filled man who covered his malice with the Bible.

I feel for his family but I have more compassion for those who have less resources in the same position. Does that make me a cold-hearted bitch? Maybe. I just have a hard time missing this guy. I will leave that to his family, who knew and loved him. What he shared with me in his public exclamations is not missed any more than a Klansman dying would be missed. I have no duty to miss or mourn him. Frankly, he's just one more hater going to square accounts with his god. Personally, I think he won't get through the front door.

[Forkboy]

78. fuck that and fuck him

Now,feel free to scold me too :eyes:

[Phelan]

80. Nah don't worry about it, Karma will do the scolding for him

[Forkboy]

81. I dont believe in Karma

If I'm wrong may God strike me dea...

[lojasmo]

79. For all of you pissing on Hitler's grave......N/T

[Forkboy]

82. Well,Hitler comparisons may be a stretch

but he damn well doesn't deserve the fawning from some here and last night on MNF. :puke:

[lojasmo]

86. Yeah, I know.....

But really...."he was a biggoted schmuck, but pay him some respect" :eyes:

[Forkboy]

99. It cracks me up

Besides,if there is a thing as karma it's already gotten me.I have nothing to lose by speaking my mind anymore :)

[Walt Starr]

193. A better comparison is to Fred Phelps

Same bullshit, different bigots.

[lojasmo]

218. Indeed it is.

I was reaching for effect, not for idealogical parity, nor for the sake of intellectual purity.

Thanks Walt, for the better analogy.

[Phelan]

104. Proving Godwin's law once again

[lojasmo]

106. I wasn't comparing the two

I was pointing out the absurdity of a plea to spare the racist homphobe from derision.

White was a bastard, and the world is a better place without him here.

[Phelan]

83. I agree

I find the additude here horibly dispiriting. I always thought what seperated us from the right was that we actually were compassionate, and the freepers like to talk about being compassionate.
Apparently no such luck.

Now I could understand the hate spewing out of peoples mouths here if he had actually helped accomlish some grand agenda with his hatefulness. But guess what he didn't. Instead I remember him as a great football player, a person beloved by most in the NFL and most that actually knew him that would sometimes say horribly embarrasing things that people really didn't take too seriously

[Cannikin]

84. just for the record, he was homophobic AND a racist.

"Homosexuality is a decision, it's not a race," he said. "People from all different ethnic backgrounds live in this lifestyle. But people from all different ethnic backgrounds also are liars and cheaters and malicious and back-stabbing."
http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/12/122704white.htm

I'm not celebrating his passing, nor am I mourning it. God bless his family.

[liberalhistorian]

175. "I'm not celebrating his passing, nor

am I mourning it. God bless his family", thank you, that is EXACTLY what I'm trying to get across! You don't have to mourn him, but it's wrong to celebrate his death also.

[ChairOne]

88. Friends! We are gathered here today to remember the *true* Reggie White...

Members of the congregation! Continue your trip down memory lane at: http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/claremont.html

Gays hurt children, kill our people

"White said he stands by his remarks regarding gays. `I am going to speak the truth and I am going to speak out against things that's hurting our children, that's killing off our people,' White said. `If people think that's a contradiction and that's hate, they need to take them up with God, not with Reggie White.'" Associated Press, April 26, 1998, quoting White's 20/20 interview.

Gays responsible for STDs

"America is not big enough to shake her fist in the face of a holy God and get away with it, and as I read this I want to explain something. I'm going to read this and then I want to explain something. As America has permitted homosexuality to establish itself as an alternate lifestyle, it is also reeling from the frightening spread of sexually transmitted disease. Sin begets its own consequence, both on individuals and nations."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

==============

White's non-apology:

"My third point was that we must strive to renew the moral indiscretions that threaten to corrupt our society. At this point, I must stress that I in no way intended for my comments to personally hurt anyone, and for that I apologize. But I do not apologize for standing on God's word when it comes to sin in my life and others. My attitude is to hate the sin and love the sinner. The basis of ministry is that we love our neighbors as ourselves. And we must have extreme compassion for others in order to achieve national greatness."

==============

Good luck, liberalhisotrian. You may as well ask me to stop pissing on Bull Wallace's grave.

It gives me no particular pleasure to say it, but it seems clear that the world is better off, on the whole, without him in it.

You don't "appreciate his gay-bashing"? Wow. Some of us feel a lot stronger about bigotry than you do. And (hopefully) few of us buy your up-is-down-ist silliness re: being against bigots is itself bigotry. Your inability to see the difference says something about you, and *only* about you.

LOL - yah, being against Reggie White is just as bad as being against Paul Wellstone... The things people try to get me to believe around here..... rofl...

[Cannikin]

95. Its not hate. Its a reality check for those who worship him...

Just because he played ball well.

[Maiden England]

94. Hate met with hate, does not produce love....

I too am totally appauled by the attitude of certain individuals here on the DU in their reactions to the death of Reggie White. Most of us are here on the DU because we are liberals. We have compassion and understanding and a genuine desire to see good done to the world. We support the ideas of free speech and democracy. In order to accept the right to free speech, you have to accept two things. One, that Reggie White had every right to say the things he did. Two, that no matter how offended I am, or others on the DU to White's position on issues of sex and race, or to the reactions of some here, that the people on this board had every right to react to his death in the manner which they did.
It also gives me the right, however to say that I think everyone that spewed hatred over White's death completely misses the point. He spewed hate, yeah, so you don't meet that attitude with hate and bigotry yourself, you meet it with compassion and education. People that loved Reggie for his footballing talents, can read his comments, and read your desires to 'piss on his grave' and decide, well there must be something to his rhetoric, if you are that mean and hateful in your hearts....
...so what have you accomplished. Have you furthered Gay rights, have you educated people that Gays, or Jews, or any other minority are no different, have you helped to educate acceptance and a willingness to embrace all other cultures. No, you have not. You have appeared as hate filled as any bigot.
We constantly hold ourselves up to be better than the 'other side', 'the freepers' yet to be quite frank, there are obviously those amongst us, who aren't quite there yet.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

108. which is why you basically said to screw the homeless in another thread?

Give me a break :nopity:

[KnowerOfLogic]

153. Who said anything about hate? Calling the guy a bigot is not hate.

Admittedly, i have not read every post related to this subject, but i have not seen any hate. What i have seen is people responding to all the warm fuzzy remembrances of this guy, that fail to make any mention at all of his very ugly side.

[liberalhistorian]

176. Very well put,

thank you!

[raggedcompany]

96. As a longtime Eagle fan

I still have to say that the guy was FAR from the saint everyone wants to make him. The louder people like you apologize for Reggie, and chastise others for daring to point out the truth about the man, the more vociferous will be our response. The guy was a great player, but he was NOT a great man. Sorry.

[SmokingJacket]

97. My grandfather's a disgusting, racist old bastard.

A horrible, bitter old man.

Do I hate him? No. What good would that do?

I love him -- not like I love other people who are good and kind and easily lovable. But showing him love and affection isn't the same as approving of all his opinions and thinking he's a wonderful specimen of humanity.

He's going to die soon. The world will have one less bigot.

But he's also a human being, and an unhappy one at that. So I won't be dancing on any graves.

Horrible people may not "deserve" our love. But if we're decent people we give it anyway.

(I know nothing about this football player, so I'm just talking in general principles here).

[raggedcompany]

100. So long as when your grandfather

So long as when your grandfather dies you don't eulogize him as some kind of moral man of good conscience and magnanimous spirit, I agree completely.

It's the dishonest omission of White's remarkably dark "side" that drives me nuts about this story.

Hate ain't going to do any good, but a bit of truth an honesty will, even if the truth ain't pretty, and the person involved died too soon. No one gets a pass on truth.

[ChairOne]

101. Don't have to hate him to acknowledge that the world's better off w/o him

The "hate" issue is just a prejudicial-red herring-strawman...

I don't think I actually *hate* anybody. (Well, except maybe for that asshole who cut me off on the freeway last night... )

But it's perfectly consistent to be both hate-free, and to maintain that the world is better off with one less bigot in it. And there are a variety of ways that might happen. Senator Byrd showed us one way, and Reggie White another. So make that *two* fewer bigots, I suppose - lol

[itzamirakul]

112. So then, the family of the young woman

who was murdered and her baby cut from her body should LOVE the horrible woman who perpetrated this crime? Puh-leeze. Enough Pollyanna, Goody-Two-shoes crap.

If your grandad is a racist, then YOU love him but don't expect people who have been at the brunt end of that racism to feel the same as you do.

[ChairOne]

113. dunno if I'd go *that* far.... lol

I just think the following two questions are completely different, and that a stand on one doesn't require a stand on the other:

(1) Do you hate person X? (Or do they deserve to be hated, or whatever...)

(2) Is the world as a whole better off without person X in it?

I think the hate/love issue is *completely* irrelevant to the main Reggie White issue, and serves only as a smokescreen, to hide from question (2).

[SmokingJacket]

146. Of course not. I agree --

I've often wondered what I'd think if he got beat up some time -- maybe if someone overhearing a racist remark whipped his ass.

I'd think, Well, you sure had that coming! About time. I've wanted to do it myself.

But beating him up wouldn't change him, it would just make him nastier, I'm sure. As much as he deserves it, what good would it do?

Spreading hate around doesn't help anyone, I guess I'm saying.

...............

at the same time -- now that I've had time to think it over -- many years ago I lived in a small southern town that thought the civil war ended like last week. I had a boss who was a real jerk. Being an outspoken liberal, I got called into his office once and told that I'd better keep my mouth shut since he was a member of the KKK.

Hello????

I quit soon after. I should have quit that day.

Frankly -- a slow lingering death from bubonic plague would be too good for that guy.

Maybe us nice liberals tolerate TOO MUCH hatred, all in the name of being nice.

[jonnyblitz]

116. is he a public figure who uses his fame as a platform to

spew his bile to a wide audience and who influences people because of his position? probably not. this ASSHOLE said some pretty viles things to a wide audience.

[LSdemocrat]

107. Thank you. It is not liberal to hate people who disagree with you.

Hatred breeds hatred. Just because someone hates you does not mean that you should hate him back.

[msmcghee]

109. Behold the hate . .

. . that you see here. It is the result that the right has created.

Is it right to hate the haters? Is it OK to be intolerant of intolerance?

The RW realized several years ago that the way to destroy an ideology based on compassion and forgiveness and tolerance - is to attack them ruthlessly with hate, blame and intolerance.

We either get to turn the other cheek - and watch our civil society slowly formed through decades of an enlightened "open-minded" approach to government turned into an ugly materialistic "fuck everybody but me" state - or fight back - and in so doing become hateful and intolerant of our enemies.

Well, this is the world they wanted. It's gone way beyond any attempts to reason with them. They have shown time and again that any attempts by the left to reconcile our differences are just met with derision and more hate - saying that we deserve it because we're cowards and don't even fight back.

The assholes like Reggie White are the ones who made it this way, who made civil discourse an oxymoron - who attacked those who could not fight back and who had no million dollar salary or popular megaphone to spew their hate from.

At some point we have to admit that we are in a war with people who want to destroy us and everything we stand for - and we are losing it mostly because we want to be "civil" to our enemies.

Fuck Reggie White and the horse he rode in on.

[AngryOldDem]

111. Thanks for posting that

The same could go for the absolutely vicious and hateful thread last week about Pat Tillman.

The same could also go for the daily, relentless, and often ignorant attacks on organized religion.

Just goes to show there are extremists on either side of the political spectrum.

Are we REALLY better than those on the Right? Some days, I truly don't know the answer to that question.

[Toucano]

115. Brandon Teena and Matthew Shepherd

were too young to die.

You're making it seem like Reggie was simply someone with a different political view, merely a red state vs. blue state thing. It isn't like we disagree with Reggie's tax plan or job creation ideas. Demonizing someone over politics would be wrong and ridiculous.

But the feelings people are expressing over the death of Reggie White aren't based on politics.

Reggie White's hate speech directly contributed to the suffering and needless deaths of innocent people.

Those who contribute to the climate of hate and fear as Mr. White did are directly responsible for the DEATHS of innocent people.

It's probably nice for you to be in a position where you can afford to not "appreciate" gay bashing. That's a luxury LBGT people don't have, you see. They're busy fighting for their lives and the right to simply exist.

I guiltlessly rejoice at the death of another ignorant, loud-mouthed fool, and completely reject your appeasement.

You should always speak nice of the dead. He's dead. How nice!

[raggedcompany]

118. well said! n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

117. actually he does deserve it...and i completely support those

who have the balls to call a fucking homophobe a homophobe!!


no one says he should have died...just that he is an asshole..currently a dead asshole.

[Walt Starr]

119. Why should I give a damn about a rich ex-athlete homophobe Christo-fascist

dying?

Seriously, it does not affect my life one whit that this rich ex-athlete homophobic Crhisto-fascist is now dead.

[Forkboy]

120. Actually,it makes the world a better place

so it does help you :)

[Walt Starr]

121. Nope, there are ten more nasty homophobic Christo-fascists waiting in line

to take this homophobic Christo-fascist's place.

[Forkboy]

124. Oh sure,rain on my parade!

:P

[scottxyz]

122. I won't piss on his grave - I'll just quote him. From the horse's mouth:

Reggie White on gays
http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_12_01_americablog_archive.html#110409187784589745

Gays are like liars and cheaters

" 'Homosexuality is a decision, it's not a race,' White said. 'People from all different ethnic backgrounds live in this lifestyle. But people from all different ethnic backgrounds also are liars and cheaters and malicious and back-stabbing.' " - Reggie White, Associated Press, March 25, 1998.

Gays hurt children, kill our people

"White said he stands by his remarks regarding gays. `I am going to speak the truth and I am going to speak out against things that's hurting our children, that's killing off our people,' White said. `If people think that's a contradiction and that's hate, they need to take them up with God, not with Reggie White.'" Associated Press, April 26, 1998, quoting White's 20/20 interview.

Gays are like backstabbers and malicious people

PEGGY WEHMEYER of ABC's 20/20: "Just last week, Reggie White and his wife, Sara, met us for an exclusive interview. White told us he was sorry if he offended anyone, but he wasn’t backing down one inch. (on camera) Are you saying there that homosexuals are like liars, cheaters, backstabbers and malicious people?"
REGGIE WHITE "Yes." - ABC's 20/20, April 27, 1998.

"Sodomite community"

"Reggie White's wife said CBS was `'too scared'' to hire her husband as a football commentator because of his controversial speech before the Wisconsin State Assembly. White, the Green Bay Packers defensive lineman who retired and unretired last week, used ethnic stereotypes and called homosexuality `'one of the biggest sins'' in the Bible in his remarks last month. 'They were too scared of the Sodomite community is what they said,' Sara White told ABC's '20/20'." - ASSOCIATED PRESS, April 26, 1998

Gays responsible for STDs

"America is not big enough to shake her fist in the face of a holy God and get away with it, and as I read this I want to explain something. I'm going to read this and then I want to explain something. As America has permitted homosexuality to establish itself as an alternate lifestyle, it is also reeling from the frightening spread of sexually transmitted disease. Sin begets its own consequence, both on individuals and nations."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

Homosexuality one of the biggest sins

"Let me explain something when I'm talking about sin, and I'm talking about all sin. One of the biggest ones that has been talked about that has really become a debate in America is homosexuality."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

Gays have problems

"Now, I believe that one of the reasons that Jesus was accused of being a homosexual is because he spent time with homosexuals. I've often had people ask me, would you allow a homosexual to be your friend. Yes, I will. And the reason I will is because I know that that person has problems, and if I can minister to those problems, I will."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

Being gay compared to lying, gays hurt nation

"But the Bible strictly speaks against it, and because the Bible speaks against it, we allow rampant sin including homosexuality and lying, and to me lying is just as bad as homosexuality, we've allowed this sin to run rampant in our nation, and because it has run rampant in our nation, our nation is in the condition it is today."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

Offended that gays say deserve rights

"Sometimes when people talk about this sin they've been accused of being racist. I'm offended that homosexuals will say that homosexuals deserve rights. Any man in America deserves rights, but homosexuals are trying to compare their plight with the plight of black men or black people. In the process of history, homosexuals have never been castrated, millions of them never died. Homosexuality is a decision. It's not a race."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

via
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2004/12/reggie-white-great-player-great-bigot.html

Reggie White was an idiot. An idiot who dies young is still an idiot.

[MADem]

126. Ahhh, the BIBLE strictly speaks against it!!!!

It's one of them there "abominations" from Leviticus. I wonder if this guy skipped the shrimp at the buffet, because shellfish is an abomination, too? Hope he didn't allow his wife to ever cut her hair, that's on the list!! Men with long hair--abominable!!! And unless his uniform was not a polyester-cotton blend, he was being abominable by wearing clothing made from two types of thread....

Sounds to me like he cherrypicked his favorite abomination, and ran with it. Oh, well....

[liberalhistorian]

177. A lot of fundies do that,

cherry pick from the Bible. And they refuse to listen to anyone who tries to tell them otherwise, too. It's why I'm leaving my church of ten years, because it's turned into a RW fundie haven.

[fortyfeetunder]

123. STOP THE HERO WORSHIP

While I am not going to stoop so low to piss on the memory and legacy of the late Reggie White, I am going to put this one forward, as I have done on previous posts.

The reason Reggie White got away with his vitriol was because he used his celebrity status as a bully pulpit to espouse his beliefs. Had Reggie White not been a stellar professional football player, do you think the Wisconsin legislature would have given him the time of day to allow him in their chambers to speak?

Now then. White, as well as other celebrities have been able to get away with this over the years. We worship these ordinary people and let them say just about anything, because we allow them the access to public media and access to politics.

We can stop the hero worship. We have choice. Dry up their money and influence. Don't sponsor the venues these idiots work for. Or write to their management, agents, etc to tell them why you no longer support their cause. Don't allow your kids to be caught up in the hero worship. It's plain and simple. It should be easy for DU'ers. Most of us certainly don't worship *....a mere mortal like Reggie White should be a piece of cake.

[MADem]

125. I don't know a thing about this guy

...but when I see FOOTBALL PLAYER, dies young, I tend to ask a few questions. Was his death really "untimely?" Or was it a direct result of steroid abuse? Look at Ah-nuld, he had to have a pig valve put in his heart due to steroid abuse. That "anything to win" mentality...even at the cost of one's life.

I can't get too worked up over someone who is bigoted towards people who live their lives as God made them, even if the person doing the deriding claims to be a 'Christian' or from any other faith. If he claimed that being gay was somehow being wrong, he was, in effect, saying that God had screwed up when he made that gay person...and God doesn't make mistakes.

Quite a conundrum for the faithful, I should imagine....if they ever bothered to think it all through.

[oasis]

128. Reports differ as to the cause of his death. Test will take up to 3 months

:eyes: ther is more to this than meets the eye.

[MADem]

129. I'll bet he had a "steroid heart" just like Ah-nuld....

Ah-nuld got lucky, or had a good doctor (or both) and he dodged the bullet.

[oasis]

131. Look for results to be downplayed, especially if White has Repug

connections.

[RUDUing2]

147. white had sleep apnea..chances are he died of respiratory arrest due to

that.

If he death raises awareness of this and helps to save lives then something good came from his life.

[Ladyhawk]

156. You now have 666 posts...creepy. I have sleep apnea, too.

And diabetes...and degenerative disc disease. I took that deathclock test and according to it, I'll die young like Reggie White. At 55 or so. I'll live a decade more. Big deal. Everyone dies.

Will my death change what I was like while alive? No. I'm not even sure family will mourn. :shrug:

We all die. It's what we do in life that matters.

At my father's funeral, I was stunned to hear many people get up and eulogize him as "such a good person." It was like he had become a different person through dying. During his lifetime, my father was an abusive and controlling bastard who worshipped Rush Limbaugh and beat animals and children alike. When I die, I hope I get a pass like that!

I did my part during the funeral and sang a song he wanted sung. But after the funeral, at the reception, my cousin Teri (who lived with us for two years) extolled the virtues of my father and said it was he who had taught her how to discipline her own children. She mentioned belts and beatings and I nearly got sick to my stomach.

My father's unacceptable behavior was being passed down to another generation, even though I'd promised myself it wouldn't happen through me. I became furious and being the stubborn ass I am, I said that beating people with a belt was sick behavior and that it had had a particularly nasty effect on my psyche. Everyone at the table looked at me because I'd broken a taboo: Don't speak evil of the dead...wooooooooooooo! Karma! It's gonna get you!

And truly, I struggled with guilt because I had told the truth. After the funeral, the only emotion I felt was relief that my father had died, then enormous guilt for feeling that relief. I struggled with my own feelings for a long, long time.

Just this week I dreamed that my father's ghost lived in my walls. I dream of my father all the time, but in my dreams, he never speaks. This time, I was actually glad to see him. There is a part of us that always loves our parents, regardless of wrongs done. In this dream, however, he became violent, strangling me whenever I mentioned his death. He wouldn't go away like he did in my other dreams...hmmm, was I using my CPAP that night?

So, I have mixed emotions about this issue. I think ignoring a dead person's actions in life gives others a pass to behave the same way, but pissing on someone's grave is in poor taste. Either extreme feels "wrong" somehow. I really do want to do the right thing, but I've also learned that forgiveness just gives someone the right to do the same thing to you over and over. Harboring hatred eats away at your soul. So, where is the true path? Where is the high road that still acknowledges that a wrong was done?

Show me.

[MADem]

196. You should get yourself a sleep test...

and maybe one of those CPAP masks. Why not live as long as you can manage?

Ya know, I have a funny feeling that if this guy was an Enron exec, or a pharmaceutical CEO, no one would have a good thing to say about him. No one would defend him, everyone would piss on his his grave, or dance a jig.

I have to admit, I think Curt Schilling's absurd endorsement of weecowboy at the 11th hour was absolutely disgraceful, but I was glad as hell that he pitched his bloody-ankled ass off during the Series.

When you REALLY want your team to win, you do make allowances, to your own shame, but HELL, you want that damn victory--there are times when you just need to live vicariously. However, his team isn't my team, and I don't know him from Adam, so I'm not going to care one way or another.

He sure doesn't sound like a real Christian, with those hateful views. And ANYONE can become a minister--you can do it online, or by filling out a form in a matchbook. What does being a minister mean, anyway? That you conned some human into giving you a paper that says you are a Godly person? It ain't like being a teacher in a state where there is rigorous certification, it ain't like you actually have to take an oral exam in front of Jesus Christ and his apostles....!

Hell, aren't the sins of the flesh the most easily forgiven? Maybe he skipped that part...

Sounds to me that he has problems with the way he felt about people who are different for a reason that we maybe don't fully understand. Paging Dr. Freud....Dr. Sigmund Freud....!!!!

[saltpoint]

130. People respond to White --

-- as a racist and a bigot because he WAS a racist and a bigot.

If White wanted a different legacy besides head-butting in the NFL and discrimination and hatefulness off the field, he should have addressed that concern while he was alive.

He did not die "too young." We die when we die. There is no schedule.

[apple_ridge]

133. Get a hold of yourself. He was a big, dumb hateful moron and

nothing more.

The world is a better place without him.

[Bertha Venation]

139. Are you being obtuse?

Or do you really not get it?

[KSAtheist]

209. Really?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/12/27/bc.fbn.white.urbanhope.ap/index.html

He gave more to the community than I have, or most likely anyone else on this forum. Let's keep a little perspective, here.

[MsTryska]

135. I have no idea what this guy was on about in his life,

but one question....did he die of AIDS related illness?


the reporting seemed kind of sketchy.

[okieinpain]

136. why does it have to be a black eye.

[Jesus H. Christ]

137. Are you going to be happy when Osama bin Laden dies?

Fuck Reggie White.

[liberalhistorian]

179. Now, that's a really

stupid comparison, almost as dumb as comparing White to Hitler! That's taking things just a teeny, tad bit too far.

[Jesus H. Christ]

204. They're cut from the same cloth.

nt

[davidinalameda]

138. gag me

he was a homophobic racist bastard who used his celebrity to push his right wing fundie agenda

and his wife was just as bad

she blamed gays for CBS not giving him a contract

I do not feel bad for this man's death--one less bigot to pollute the earth

[jonnyblitz]

150. yup, may he rot rot rot..

:puke: :puke:

[DS1]

140. I'M MORE LIBERAL THAN YOU!!

NYAH!!!! :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[ChairOne]

154. I call em "leftier-than-thous" - lol /eom

[liberalhistorian]

180. Actually, that's a name

I would apply to liberals who pride themselves and pat themselves on the back for not being hateful and vitriolic like freepers, and on being tolerant and loving, unlike freepers, and who then turn around and spew the same gleeful, hateful garbage over the death of a freeper/fundie/wingnut that they condemn the freepers for spewing at the death of a Dem/liberal, with no comprehension at all that they're doing the same damn thing as the freepers.

[Bertha Venation]

141. Thank you very mucy. Well said.

I've tried to get this across in another forum but I just can't keep emotion out of my posts. You've done an excellent job here of describing the exact problem I have with what's gone on here at DU since Sunday.

And now there's a thread in the lounge -- outrage over freepers rejoicing about Susan Sontag's death. Some folks just don't get it.

[liberalhistorian]

181. Thanks, Bertha, and

you're right, they just don't get it. I'm going to think about these White threads the next time DUers condemn freepers for rejoicing over the death of a Dem/liberal.

[jonnyblitz]

200. I am sure any dead liberal the freepers are rejoicing over won't

be a hate spewing bigot who used his platform to dehumanize a segment of the population. no, lisa, I think YOU don't get it.

[Bertha Venation]

215. The point is the hatred of the "other" and the joy over death.

A liberal of any variety is as abhorrent to radical right-wingers as a hate-spewing bigot is to us. They rejoice that Sontag is dead. Some of us rejoice that White is dead. It is the same hatred. Hatred is hatred no matter who expresses it, and it kills.

[leftofthedial]

142. I woulda crapped

but I'm kind of plugged up right now

I'm sick of the "mr. nice guy" image we liberals are required to have in order to satisfy some politically correct stereotype.

White was a friggin jock, which is two strikes against him already. Plus, he was a bigoted, racist, homophobic, religiously insane, cretinous POS, who used his jock status to spew hatred and stupidity.

I'm not sorry he died. He deserved no respect alive and he gets none dead.

I could name a few hundred more RW fascist assholes we'd all be better off without.

[Bluzmann57]

143. Thank you!

I said something similar to what you did, and got hammered for it. I even got ripped for not answering any posts they made because I chose to take my family out for pizza. You stated it more eloquantly than I ever could have and once again, thank you. Reggie White exercised his free speech rights and paid for it. Now he is dead at 43, younger than me, and the haters were out. I suppose they will always be among us, but that doesn't make it right.

[YNGW]

144. De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum

Verbum Sat Sapienti

[Susang]

151. How do you know what he deserves?

Can you tell me how much harm his many anti-gay comments cause. How much violence they may have incited?

Would you have posted this if he weren't a football star? I tend to doubt it. Why is a sports figure given so much more leeway in this society than any other human being?

And as far as superiority complexes go, you need to look closely in the mirror; your OP was more holier-than-thou than almost anything I've read on DU this year, at least since the Reagan death flame wars. Other's emotions are not yours to judge. I'm sure we all have parents or authority in our offline lives we can consult if we need guidance, your harsh criticism is not needed or welcome. Maybe you'll think about that prior to your next condescending and paternalistic post.

[jonnyblitz]

159. wow. great post.

RIGHT THE HELL ON!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Walt Starr]

152. So would it be okay for me to piss on Fred Phelps' grave when he croaks?

Because I intend to protest witha sign that reads:

FRED PHELPS IS BURNING IN HELL!
GOT HATES BIGOTS!

[Walt Starr]

188. Just posting a response because I regard Reggie White and Fred Phelps

the same.

There is exactly zero moral difference between the two fucks.

[tilsammans]

158. Very well said . . .

. . . thank you, liberalhistorian.

[Tomee450]

160. I agree

Many of the posts are shockingly hateful. George Wallace caused a lot of problems for African Americans yet very few blacks could be heard expressing happiness at his death. We like to talk about conservative message boards but some of the posts regarding Reggie are the same as those to be found at Free Republic. Terribly sad to see such posts here.

[Dinger]

162. When I Read Your post, I Just Sighed, In Relief

Thank you so much liberalhistorian.

Your last paragraph is exactly where I stand on this issue.

Thank you So much for posting this.:hug:

[Bush was AWOL]

172. It's only OK to piss on Christians around here

any gay bashing or difference of opinion when it comes to the subject of being gay, the person who said it is a disgusting piece of shit to most posters on DU. However, making fun of Christians for their beliefs is welcomed and, almost encouraged around here.

FYI, I'm not a homophobe like White, either, I just don't hate him for being one.

[liberalhistorian]

182. As a liberal Christian, myself, I am

unfortunately beginning to notice that. I blame the RW fundie wingnuts who've hijacked Christianity, twisting and distorting it until it's virtually unrecognizable, and who are trying to establish a theocratic state, shoving their version of religion down everyone else's throats. I can understand where the antipathy toward Christians is coming from, considering what the repuke Christians are doing, especially to anyone who isn't white, male, well-off, and heterosexual. Hell, I'M frightened of those people myself. I just wish DUers would understand that the religious right is NOT representative of true Christianity and of all Christians.

[Bush was AWOL]

185. Amen! I have the same feelings

and I hate to see all Christians painted with such a broad brush. I believe Jesus would want all people to be treated equally regardless of what sex they may be, whether they be heterosexual or homosexual, no matter the color of their skin, or their choice of religion, if they choose to have one.

[ruggerson]

210. I think most do

The anger is against the "religious right". Not against Christians in general.

[KnowerOfLogic]

191. Someone please post (several) link(s) showing 'hatred' towards RW

Something along the lines of "Ha Ha!! Burn in Hell you gay-hater! I'm glad you're dead. Ha ha ha ha ha!!!"

Personally, i haven't seen any such thing here; certainly not to the extent that it would be considered such a problem as to warrant a separate thread. About the worst thing i've seen is "Fuck him." Where is this hate? This is a serious question, as i certainly do not promote or support hate.

[Behind the Aegis]

202. Big difference!

Gay bashing is disgusting; although, it seems you may not have a real issue with it, despite claiming not to be a homophobe. Bashing someone's religion is just as disgusting. BUT, disagreeing with Christian tenets is NOT bashing! I have seen some odious comments about Christians (painting with a broad brush) and many of those comments do get deleted, and rightly so. Much of the "making fun of" is about the fundamentalists and their perverted twisting of Christianity and its teachings. However, a few of the posters take it as an insult to ALL Christians, thereby creating their own broad brush. It is sad you think that DU is such a hostile place for Christians, personally, I think it is quite the opposite.

FYI, as I said before, I wouldn't waste the piss on him. I do feel for his family, it is always tough to lose a loved one, no matter the age or circumstances. However, to give this man a free pass on his hate, it is just as bad as taking joy in his death!

[Raiden]

214. "Hate leads to the Dark Side..."

Differences aside, he was WAYYYY too young.

[Zomby Woof]

217. I am sick of the death taboo

We're way too hung up about death in America, and embrace weird fetishes about it. "Don't speak ill of the dead!" Superstitious bullshit. A dead person doesn't CARE what you think of them, and speaking metaphorically (or even literally) of pissing on their grave is hardly the act of hate it is being alleged.

It's a healthy response in reaction to the vile and hate-filled life someone like White lived. It's a victimless act. Whereas White's words and 'christian' actions advocated HATE and HARM on the LIVING, pissing on a grave HURTS NO ONE, especially the dead.

Fuck his rotten corpse with a rusty tire iron.

*shoots high horse out from under poster, eats the meat*

[Forkboy]

219. And you thought some of us were mean fuckers?

:evilgrin: