Cold war (and 'war on terror') a ruse by Neo-Cons?

[lefty_mcduff]

Not sure if this has been posted or not.

Power of Nightmares - British Documentary opines that the Cold war was unecessarily extended by the same folks (Wolfowitz, Pearle, Rumsfeld, Cheney) who are now touting the 'war on terror' for the same reasons - intimidation and manipulation of the US public through fear, and filling the coffers of arms manufacturers rather than spending money on much-needed domestic agendas.

Description of the documentary
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm

Article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1327904,00.html

Article
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1207-26.htm

Medium quality version
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

Higher quality (first hour)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104powerofnightmares.htm

Edited for clarity.

[Prodemsouth]

1. Is he saying the exact same people, many of these people were boys

when the cold war started the oldest would have been a teenager at the start of the cold war- sorry didn't see the threads.

[lefty_mcduff]

3. A snippet

On June 1, 1972, Nixon gave a speech in which he said, "Last Friday, in Moscow, we witnessed the beginning of the end of that era which began in 1945. With this step, we have enhanced the security of both nations. We have begun to reduce the level of fear, by reducing the causes of fear-for our two peoples, and for all peoples in the world." But Nixon left amid scandal and Ford came in, and Ford's Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld) and Chief of Staff (Dick Cheney) believed it was intolerable that Americans might no longer be bound by fear.

<snip>

To this end, they convinced President Ford to appoint a commission including their old friend Paul Wolfowitz to prove that the Soviets were up to no good. According to Curtis' BBC documentary, Wolfowitz's group, known as "Team B," came to the conclusion that the Soviets had developed several terrifying new weapons of mass destruction, featuring a nuclear-armed submarine fleet that used a sonar system that didn't depend on sound and was, thus, undetectable with our current technology.

<snip>

But, trillions of dollars and years later, it was proven that they had been wrong all along, and the CIA had been right. Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz lied to America in the 1970s about Soviet WMDs.
 

[JHB]

7. I haven't read them yet either, but there is some truth in that...

...in that today's core neocons got their start as aides to the ultra-hawkish "Scoop" Jackson and his allies (Perle started this way, for one). These hawks argued that the CIA's analytical wing was full of "internationalists" and were generally underestimating Soviet abilities and intents. They prevailed upon then-CIA Directoe George H.W. Bush to set up a "Team B" exercise, pitting the Agency's analyests against "outside experts". On technical matters this was actually pretty useful, but in the strategic assessment "Team B" paited what became the Reaganite Vision of the Ruskies: they were larger, better equipped, and were bent on world domination through military force. Wolfowitz was on Team B.

These men have been hailed as some of our top thinkers on defense, but in truth they've spent their entire careers concocting hair'em-scare'em paranoia-feeding scenarios while distaining any facts in counterpoint so as to feed their vision of power: a powerful military that can be used at will and abject distain for diplomacy.

It's not so much that the Cold War and War on Terrorism were false as much as these men have the same bad MO for dealing with both.

[bryant69]

2. I think there's been a couple of posts on it

I don't buy it myself. To say the Cold War or the War on Terror is a sham is to imply that both the Communists and Islamic Terrorists aren't a threat. And in both cases I think they were/are.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[youngred]

4. The Neo-Cons as a group didn't form til the late 60s

They were "realistic liberals" so I find that a pretty weak assumption. Now, did they exacerbate the problem and realise that without a unified enemy to stand against in the post-cold war-era the Republicans would be out of power for a long time, yes. The WOT is the new Cold War and will lead to more bloated military budgets, aggresive foreign policy and Conservative domination of the government.

[Prodemsouth]

6. Very good post, youngred, The neo-conservatives were not around at

the start of the cold war. Also a good point on how conservatives need a unified enemy. This Brit needs to study a bit more on recent American History and American political terms.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Bogeyman with a different name.

Nothing like an external "threat" to keep the peasants in line with some flagwaving and killing.

The ploy is as old as the Israelites preemptively smiting the Canaanites.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prodemsouth]

9. Who is us? This is from a british source not from the American left.

n/t

[JHB]

10. The whole Cold War? -- NO. The "remilitarization" of it in the 70s?...

...For that there's a much better case.

[Up2Late]

11. At first, your subject line seemed crazy, but that was just the...

mind control talking.

Now that I see your post, I say Yes, definitely.

This "War on Terror" is TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! Terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy you can wage war on. It's all part of the bigger Mind-control conspiracy.

O.K., Yes, Soviet style Communism IS bad, and Communism is kind of a wacky idea (think Hippy Communes), but they didn't stop there, they went on to convince Americans that Socialism is bad too.

No it's not! Most of Europe is Socialist. Socialism is great for the Average person, it's only bad for the Rich and powerful who believe in Unrestrained,"Free Market Capitalism." :grr:Italy's WW2 Fascist Dictator B. Mussolini called "Capitalism," just a new, less objectionable name for "Fascism." If you want to become a Billionaire and want to make 100 times more than your lowest payed employee, sure Socialism is bad, but you better have a lot of guns and/or a big Army to protect yourself.

Unless... you can control the media. AHHHHHH, Get it!? :think:

President Eisenhower said it best in his farewell speech, when he named the problem the "Military Industrial Complex."

It's all about the guy's who see all these weapons we've stockpiled and say, "Hey, we need to start a war so we can use some of these Tomahawk Cruse Missiles before they go bad." Bombs and missiles have a shelf life, and at some point you have to use'em or destroy them in some other way, and you KNOW, they don't budget much money destroying old Cruse Missiles. Guess we should fire them at some tents in the Afghan desert.
:nuke:
Osama bin Forgotten has Bin dead since December 2001. The "New Videos" and audio tapes are fake. I you know anyone that reads Arabic, ask them to search the Arabic web sites, I bet almost all of them say that. Or check out this link <http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html>
also, check these out:
<http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape2.html>
<http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html>

All though I recently found out that "What Really Happened.com" evolved from what originally was a Clinton "gocha" site, it has evolved into a really great site for finding "Hidden News" (News the MSM has chosen to suppress) Check out this category view <http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/categories/index.htm>
or click the top banner to view all stories, as they are posted.

If you want a real shocker, check out the "Hidden History" links. Due to the statute of limitations on the "classified" documents, the "Truth" about Pearl Harbor, and the cover-up that followed, are finally coming to light.

[Solon]

12. By the Neo-Cons? No, by their Fascist forebearers, yes...

As soon as WW2 was over, many in the US, most of them Fascist sympathizers, such as the Dulles Brothers, knew that we needed another enemy to "fight" that would unite all of the nation, and much of the world, to keep the money flowing to their corporate masters. They were instrumental in forming the CIA as it is known today, and have used the "Big Bad Communism" card when needed, when people objected to their tactics. Think Pinochet, or Iran here, the CIA became the strong arm for big business, and ever since then, people around the world have been dying for one cause or another to keep the money flowing into the pockets of CEO's and Shareholders.

[mogster]

13. There was a post about this earlier today, with programme transcript

Read this:
http://silt3.com/index.php?id=572

A-M-A-Z-I-N-G-!

I'm reliving my youth...

On edit: Transcript of the BBC programme: The Power of Nightmares

[mogster]

14. Kick! n/t