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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:08 PM
Original message
Is Iran Next?
Here's something to think about in the near future:

Is Iran Next?

The Weekly Standard has discussed the threat of nuclear weapons from Iran, and looked at four options for handling this. They only find one option to be viable--a preemptive military strike:

Four. Realize that the only option that passes the pinch test--that realistically offers a good chance of delaying Iran's nuclear-weapons production by years--is a preemptive military strike against all of the facilities that American, European, Israeli, and (in private) IAEA intelligence suspect are associated with weapons production.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=171
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Iran or Syria
something to keep the masses contented and afraid.

Something has to be done about Iran, and the US being bellicose is not the answer (since that will just convince them more that they need nukes as a deterrent to US attack).
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Nikepallas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Agreed
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Syria is my bet too n/t
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Iran & Syria together perhaps
Maybe Bush will merge them into one democracy...
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Part and Parcel
It's all part and parcel of the NeoCon agenda.
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Paleocon Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh I hope so...
I heard that they were responsible for Sept 11th and also for Reggie White passing away and also for that traffic jam last friday!

We gonna fight the was on terra wherever we need to fight it!

:silly:

</sarcasm>
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. "against all of the facilities that American, European, Israeli, "
Suspect? I quess we'll just have to level Iran .
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not A Good Idea
Attacking either Iran or Syria, will give Tony Blair the one excuse he needs to withdraw UK troops from Iraq, the Brits didn't sign on for BushCo's personal war program, and they will not support an attack on either Iran or Syria.

Besides a war with Iran will not go well for US forces currently located in the region. I'm willing to bet that the Iranians already have the US troop areas targeted for their conventional missile forces, as well as CENTCOM in Qatar and the US Navy 5th Fleet HQ, which is located in Bahrain.

Some of those fishing boats out in the Persian Gulf are doing a little more then just casting nets for fish.

Remember that at least three US Army active divisions are in Iraq,
and US bases in country are not protected against incoming missiles.

We may get some of the nuclear sites, but the cost to the US would be more then we could afford, and by now the Iranians have already hidden some of their nuclear assets.

All in all not a good trade off, the Iranians would lose some sites, but the US would lose at least most of the troops on the ground in Iraq, some of its naval assets in the Gulf, as well as air assets.

Most of the numbers would be hard to replace, especially troops and lost equipment, remember most of the manufacturing has been sent offshore, recruiting goals are not being met, and those calling for an attack will be the first cowards to hide from a draft.

Add in the fact that the rest of the world will sit by and watch and do nothing, while the US with the possible assistance of the Israelis,
starts another war that it can't finish.
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PAdem2 Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The U.S. doesn't have to fire the missiles.
Israel will. Just like they did before. And the other Arab countries will scream bloody murder...publicly. Privately, they have no love for Iran & the mullahs. They see them as a bigger threat than Israel.

What'll make it interesting is if Iran sends ground troops into Iraq as a result of Israel bombing their nukes. Kinda like Saddaam sending scuds to Israel in Gulf War I.
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omulcol Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. China is backing Iran ....
Edited on Wed Dec-29-04 10:00 AM by omulcol
and there is much information around the 'net relating to China and Russia making oil deal alliances which will ultimately influence world power.

Apparently the invasion of Syria and Iran was pre-determined long before the invasion of Iraq , and you'll probably find forcasts of this on the, " From the Wilderness ", website amonst others.

China & Russia seem to have come onto the scene during the Iraq occupation which quite possibly will alter the Neo-con plans quite considerably with regard to Syria and Iran.

One link ... though not the one I was looking for - shows adequately the latest situation with regard to USA / Chinese / & Russian tensions.


http://www.vialls.com/myahudi/greatsatan.html

Copyright Joe Vialls, 22 December 2004
Quote:

I remain permanently barred by American multinationals including Yahoo and PayPal, in what appears to be an ongoing attempt to obliterate my Internet presence completely. Life is never easy for a former combat veteran living on a miniscule disabity pension, but it has to be admitted that this multinational stranglehold has managed to make life even harder still.ÊÊÊÊ
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ

Twenty years ago 'The Great Satan' referred only to a collection of murderous Zionist Jews who illegally invaded Palestine in the 1940s, to butcher the residents and steal their land for Ben Gurion's "Yisrael". But as Zionists later took firm control of the United States, and forced the use of American soldiers in the 1990 Gulf War against Iraq, a subtle change slowly took place. In the minds of about 70 percent of the global population, America had simply become Zionist Headquarters, and was thus itself anointed 'The Great Satan'.Ê Nowadays the contempt and hatred of the civilized world is being directed against ordinary American citizens, who in the future will pay a heavy price for failing to remove a handful of Zionist madmen from Wall Street while they still had the chance to do so. The rest of the world will no longer tolerate the megalomanic 'New Zion', and is now taking active steps to destroy it.

China Backs Iran Against The Great Satan

Combine China's recent Iranian energy mega-deal with Vladimir Putin's new strategic
coalition, which includes nuclear-capable Brazil, and it rapidly becomes clear that New York's "Fortress Americas" fallback initiative is already dead in the water
Ê
Copyright Joe Vialls, 22 December 2004

Back in November 1962 when President Kennedy forced the removal of Russian missiles from Cuba, very few Americans stopped to ponder whether, at some point in the distant future, the tiny island of Cuba would decide to exact revenge on the United States for this very public humiliation. Forty years ago it all seemed most unlikely, but today the wheel has turned full circle, and a little Fidel Castro payback appears to be just over the horizon.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Based on received intelligence, it seems likely that the Island of Cuba will soon be used as 'point man' in a grand plan to deny American warships and other vessels safe transit through the Gulf of Mexico. Quite apart from thoroughly humiliating New York and Washington, such a move will have a far more devastating effect if tankers are denied access to the southern American oil terminals. Without oil imported through its critical southern oil terminals, and also possibly facing denial of access to underwater oil reserves in the Gulf of Mexico, America will collapse in less than six months.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ How this will be brought about is a long and sometimes complicated story, but bear with me and I will try to make the multi faceted components of this truly multinational operation as clear as I can, in a report normally limited to a mere 3,000 words. To do this we must first circle the globe, picking up seemingly random pieces of the operational jigsaw on the way, until the last piece slips neatly into place less than 200 miles south of Florida Keys.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ As you may expect, there is really nothing random about the process at all - merely the understandable caution and strategic camouflage of a multinational coalition closing in on the most dangerous and brutal nation on Planet Earth since early in the 20th Century. During the last thirty years alone, America's Zionist controllers have ordered the calculated murder of more than six million innocents around the world, and the world is not prepared to tolerate another six million innocents being murdered by Zion during the next thirty years.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Much has happened during the past few months, so now we have to slip back in time in order to discover the intriguing answers to why Middle East LNG (Liquefied Natural Gas) is now heading east rather than west; why Russia has forged an ironclad coalition with China, India and Brazil, and why the Zionists really want the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed El Baradei removed from office. Finally we will have to show the connections between these events and future mayhem in the Gulf of Mexico.
Ê
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ On 10 November 2004, the India Daily reported that, "Russian President Putin is taking a lead role in the most powerful coalition of regional and superpowers in the world. The coalition consists of India, China, Russia and Brazil. This will challenge the superpower supremacy of America." É "He wants to establish a long-term Russian footprint in Latin America in order to expand Moscow's geopolitical influence in the region. Brazil is very open to the coalition concept where these large countries support each other in term of trade, economics, international politics and defense."
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Just this single strategic move means that the new coalition embraces just over three quarters of the world's total population, eighty percent of its natural resources, and a majority of technical and scientific experts. Nor does it end there, because the coalition automatically includes the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), which is presently comprised of China, Russia, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. Dangerously for America, the coalition will soon have another important member, Iran, currently due to enter informally in a few months time through the SCO "back door" because of a mammoth energy deal. We will return to Iran shortly.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Obviously from the Zionist perspective, the most disturbing new member of the coalition is Brazil, because New York has long believed and insisted that the whole of Central and South America is under its personal "protection", which is just another way of claiming that Zionists can pillage the place whenever they want to, proved by countless CIA atrocities in almost every American country south of Puerto Rica.Ê Now then, what would happen to this cozy pillaging arrangement if Russia-friendly coalition partner Brazil decided to develop nuclear weapons?
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ On 16 November 2004, just six days after Vladimir Putin formally introduced Brazil as a member of the new coalition, IAEA inspectors from Geneva visited Rio de Janeiro. Just eight days later on 24 November 2004, Brazilian Energy Minister Eduardo Campos announced that the IAEA had issued Brazil with a permit to commence the experimental stage of uranium enrichment.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Paranoia immediately swept down Wall Street at the speed of light, and within hours the White House was pathetically whining that IAEA chief Mohamed El Baradei should be removed from office. Dark hints by the New York Times that El Baradei had "not been doing enough in Iran", were just a hasty smoke screen. For many years the Zionists had a fallback plan in case global conquest became impossible. Code-named "Fortress Americas", the plan relied on the USA being able to conquer both Canada and South America, thereby building themselves an impregnable redoubt in the Western Hemisphere, to provide cover while rebuilding their strength.Ê I wrote two long reports on this top-secret plan, which are linked at the bottom of this page for those who wish to study the details.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ With Brazil now a full coalition partner with Russia and China, "Fortress Americas" was already doomed to failure, especially because Vladimir Putin had been economical with the truth when he named the coalition members. Venezuela had already signed up in secret, but this was kept under wraps for fear of alerting the CIA to what was to come next. As most readers know, Venezuela has massive oil reserves that America relies on heavily, and premature exposure might have led to rash military action against the country, in order to seize the Venezuelan oilfields in the sacred name of "American National Security".
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ In its normal crude way, the CIA had already given advance warning of this intent by planning to shoot down Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's aircraft in late September, when he was en route to address the United Nations in New York. Fortunately for Chavez and his country, Venezuelan Intelligence received advance warning and blocked the President's flight. The CIA shoot-down was to be followed 14 hours later by "phase 2", an attack on the Presidential barracks while the country was still in shock about President Chavez's 'accidental death', thus capturing Venezuelan oil and handing it to America on a plate.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Of course the CIA should have cancelled "Phase 2" the minute it knew that the Presidential aircraft had not taken off from Caracas for New York, but sadly the CIA planners forgot, and the Presidential barracks attack force was swiftly overwhelmed by a very alert Venezuelan military. Needless to say, "Phase 2" proved that "Phase 1" was very real and accurate intelligence, in turn proving that the Zionists had yet again ordered the murder of a head of state for monetary gain, a long standing tradition on Wall Street.
Ê
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Within days Russia 'agreed' to provide Venezuela with fifty Mig 29 fighters, because it was obvious that Wall Street would try again later if a deterrent was not put in place, and Chavez could hardly rely on America to send spare parts for his fleet of aging F-16s. New York was furious of course, but could hardly do anything about it. And besides, what harm could 50 Mig interceptors a thousand miles away do to America? New York had made the fatal error of assuming that the Migs in question were being delivered exclusively to protect Venezuela against American bombers or troop transports.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ In fact, all fifty aircraft are Mig 29 SMTs, the very latest in Russian technology with enhanced attack payload capacity and a Plasma Stealth System. Hardly the aircraft one would choose for a Red Baron dogfight at 15,000 feet, now is it?Ê All Venezuelan Mig 29 SMTs are painted dark blue, which may be part of the stealth system, but more commonly denotes that the aircraft will be used for low level attacks over water. When nosey European diplomatic officials asked Venezuelan Air Force generals why they needed such sophisticated aircraft, the generals responded "To protect the Panama Canal". When asked against whom, the air chiefs wouldn't specify.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ What absolutely no one outside Russia and Venezuela knew until two weeks ago, is that 20 of the fifty Mig 29 SMTs are fully equipped to carry and fire the devastating SS-N-25 "Onyx", a devastating and completely unstoppable Mach 2.9 ramjet anti-ship cruise missile which skims the waves at twenty feet, before delivering a knock out blow to its maritime target more than 200 kilometers away.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ So great is the kinetic energy at the point of impact on the target, that Onyx can sink an American aircraft carrier or supertanker using only a conventional penetrating warhead. Those scientists who might doubt this should calculate the impact energy of 5,500 pounds of missile striking a carrier or tanker at a terminal velocity of 2,460 feet per second. It is understood that Russia is providing Venezuela with a stockpile of forty anti-ship Onyx missiles.
Ê
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Concurrently on the other side of the world, more pieces of the strategic jigsaw were falling into place, and on 2 December 2004 the Asia Times published "China Rocks the Geopolitical Boat with Iran Oil Deal", which is probably one of the top stories of the century, but it was not repeated by the Australian media. Heck no, because this was utterly devastating news for the energy-hungry west, and thus not fit for public exposure:-
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ "A mere two months ago, the news of a China-Kazakhstan pipeline agreement, worth US$3.5 billion, raised some eyebrows in the world press, some hinting that China's economic foreign policy may be on the verge of a new leap forward. A clue to the fact that such anticipation may have totally understated the case was last week's signing of a mega-gas deal between Beijing and Tehran worth $100 billion. Billed as the "deal of the century" by various commentators, this agreement is likely to increase by another $50 to $100 billion, bringing the total close to $200 billion, when a similar oil agreement, currently being negotiated, is inked not too far from now.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ "The gas deal entails the annual export of some 10 million tons of Iranian liquefied natural gas (LNG) for a 25-year period, as well as the participation, by China's state oil company, in such projects as exploration and drilling, petrochemical and gas industries, pipelines, services and the like. The export of LNG requires special cargo ships, however, and Iran is currently investing several billion dollars adding to its small LNG-equipped fleet."
Though America officially refers to Iran as part of the "Axis of Evil", this does not stop it importing very large quantities of Iranian LNG through third parties. Now all that will come to a grinding halt, because Iran must naturally focus exclusively on filling its mammoth Chinese commitments. Thus on 2 December 2004, the block on external energy supplies to America started in earnest.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ At the same time, Iran effectively came under China's protection, because any American attack on Iran will impact directly on Chinese National Security by severing its energy resources. It is but a small step for Iran from there to full membership of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), and overall protection by the Russian-Chinese Axis.
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ There is a curious oriental twist here, because the mammoth Iranian LNG contract with China will also have a major negative impact on "Coalition of the Willing" partner Australia. Back in 2002 there was a huge fanfare when the Australian Government trumpeted news of an annual 3.3 million ton LNG export deal toÊ China, due to commence in 2006 and last for 25 years. Does this sound familiar?
ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ Unfortunately for Australia, the Iranian-Chinese deal was effective the day it was signed in late November 2004, and both countries have admitted that between them they will need to build another 87 LNG tankers just to keep up with their initial supply from the huge Iranian Pars gas field. In the view of this author, the Chinese willÊ default on the Australian deal, which is probably a suitable punishment for the obsequious cretins in Canberra who agreed to "help" the Zionists in Iraq.


Ê


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:37 PM
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8. Deleted message
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Don't see it
The military is alrteady stretched thin and busy in Iraq, and Iran is a whole different ballgame. Way way bigger just in terms of area. Also, it might provoke a crisis of world-wide proportions in the Middle East, disrputing the precious oil supply.

Syria I could see Bush doing some light bombing to flex his muscle, but not more than that.
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PAdem2 Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Light bombing ins Syria?
I'm thinking more like special ops.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. that's a possibility too
Maybe a surgical strike with special ops forces.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
14. Lately I've seen lots of propaganda right here pointing to Iran,
but most recently they're turning up the heat about Syria. Why is nobody marching?
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petron Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. The question should be WHEN
After reading all the posts in this thread, a few are asking how.

It's simple, another terrorist attack on US soil that can easily be blamed on Iran.

(IMO: Syria is out of the question seeing has how it has virtually no geo-strategic resources.)

After an attack, Bunnypants and Co. will use the resulting patriotic fervor to implement a draft.

And then ta-da! A new big army! A new gigantic military spending bill!

BunnyCo has waited this long to take control of Iran, they can wait another year or so.

Ok, ok...I haven't taken the China factor into account really but what if an attack on our soil gives the US carte blanche to protect ourselves and BunnyCo is able to "prove" Iran was at fault. What can China do then?

Too many variables to know the actually outcome but I have grown so damn pessimistic since the stolen election of 2004. Ugg.
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