Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why we're stingy

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
ivolsky Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:12 AM
Original message
Why we're stingy
The NYT editorial page weighs in on the "Are We Stingy?" relief efforts debate and concludes that yes, we are. The paper contrasts the public perception that the U.S. gives 24% of its budget on aid to poor nations and the reality that we only spends a quarter of 1%. In 2003, America gave $16.2 billion in development aid, while the European Union gave $37.1 billion. In 2002, America offered $13.2 billion, while Europe contributed $29.9 billion. Also, very often, the U.S. does not actually deliver all the aid it promises.

Still, all spending is an indication of priority. When a country, a people, or a politician (do you like how politician get her/his own category?) allocate money towards a cause, they acknowledge the importance of that cause. When not enough money is allocated, the cause is deemed less important than a higher spending priority. In this case, the message couldn't be clearer. Helping the poorest nations on earth overcome one of the largest natural disasters in history is less important than the Bush inauguration. The inauguration of Bush is more important than rebuilding the lives of millions.

Now, I wonder. If (God forbid) a natural disaster occurred in the Western hemisphere, or even in the United States, would we, as Americans, not expect all other nations to (1) send their condolences immediately and not wait almost a week <note to Bush: since you're president and all, you'll sometimes have to disrupt your vacation, especially when 80,000+ suddenly die in the poorest region on earth. If you were a true statesmen you would fly to India and Sri Lanka to survey the damage and extend your personal sympathies> (2) contribute all that they can to the relief efforts.

Is it all too much to ask for?
www.politicalthought.net.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. Four Hurricanes in Florida and were was the U. N.?
I do not recall even token help from the UN or any of those South East Asia countries.
The United States has carried the U. N. since 1947, while they publicly bash us on a regular basis. When will the U. N. start to carry its own weight?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
55. Thats like asking why poor people dont give money to rich people
during the holidays.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Squeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. We make our own
disaster aid. There's insurance in the private sector, and there's FEMA and government disaster aid in the public sector.

Why do we need (or deserve) extra baksheesh from the UN? Wassamatter, do you think we're needy or weak or something? Why do you hate America?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. You ever think about
We're the richest country in the world, and we can usually handle most of our problems, including 4 hurricanes, without the UN? I was hit by 2 of them this year, Frances and Jeanne. I called my insurance company, and they settled the claim over the phone.

Most people have their own insurance and wouldn't expect a poor Indian brutalized Indonesian to kick in for the repairs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. It is not like we absolutly needed the help, they did not even
make a token offering.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well, you didn't offer to pay part of my deductible either!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Paying my own deductable took it all. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
36. Doesn't this fall under
"having your hand out" and "begging for someone to help you"?


why do you hate America?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. No it does not
An offer to help does not imply an answer to begging for help.
You ask "why do you hate America?" You have that back wards. I want to help my state and country first. I recall that phrase "why do you hate America?" coming from the mouth of the right wing town crier Shalom Hannity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
St. Jarvitude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
107. "Shalom Hannity"?
:wtf: is that supposed to mean?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #107
116. It means he is a self righteous jerk
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #41
122. As I recall, the damage from the Hurricanes was more financially
devastating than death taking. Although all death is tragic, we are talking about 100s of thousands dead, missing and displaced. You guys are arguing apples to oranges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
56. Maybe because
we're the richest nation on earth and we're millions of dollars behind in our U.N. dues, possibly? The hurricanes were nothing at all compared to what most of the rest of the world has to deal with all the time, and most of the rest of the world is far poorer than we are and with far less resources. We are so spoiled and pampered, when something happens we act as if it's the worst thing ever to happen in the world and that we're worse off than anyone else, and that's pure bullshit. We live like kings compared to most of the rest of the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PST Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. help from Sri Lanka?
you're joking right? your pc is worth more than what they make a year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Arthur C Clark lives in Sri Lanka
http://www.space.com/news/tsunami_clarke_041227.html

Not everyone there is destitute. I doubt that Mr. Clark is a pauper
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. That's not "Mr Clark"--but "Sir Arthur Clarke"
Yes, there are some wealthy people in Sri Lanka.

I saw on bbc news this AM how the roads were clogged with Sri Lankans from the unaffected parts of the island. They loaded up their cars & trucks with supplies to help. And most of them were not wealthy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I send my apologies to Sir Arthur Clarke
I did not know he had been knighted. In fact I thought he had passed away a few years ago. At least one good thing has come out of this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PST Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. great logic!
now would that make Sri Lanka a rich country or just a poor country with 1 rich citizen?
look at the stats and learn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. No, I look at my own bank account and
I look at my friends and neighbors here in Florida after Ivan. Some how I do not have any sympathy for the administrators of the U. N. sitting in their offices in New York City complaining that we are not giving enough.
I put my neighbors and country ahead of the U. N.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PST Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. ahead of the UN?
people in 3rd world countries are dying from starvation and diseases right now, if they were lucky enough to survive at all. this is NOT about the UN.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Fine, I delegate to you to go out and help the third world
I have my own problems after a local natural disaster that are currently taking up my spare resources. this is NOT about being STINGY.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
123. Great, 5 rich guys in Sri Lank, they don't need OUR help! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. BS
The US has not carried the UN since 1947. We owe them millions in dues. Ted Turner actually paid our country's dues one year.

Get a grip on reality. I suppose you also think the poor people in trailers should pitch in their savings of aluminum cans for donation to the rich McMansion home dwellers that sustain damage from a tornado?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. And there is a reason we owe them millions in dues
The attitude of the United Nations in general toward the United States precipitates animosity. And good for Mr. Turner. At least he kept the French from paying our dues first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Good grief
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
111. Wow.
:wow:

Ignorance strikes again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. The US has a bad habit of not paying their dues to the UN...
so saying the US has been carrying the UN since 1947 is factually incorrect. The UN was started through the work of a US president and I find it interesting that, because the US can't control all the decisions, it is no longer of use to the US.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I like the analogy
of you cooking someone a meal and they complain the food is NO good and there is not ENOUGH of it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. And this relates to the UN how?
My comment was specific to the inaccuracy regarding 'carrying the UN since 1947' but, since your post doesn't address that and goes on to the stingy comment, the bush admin constantly touts themselves and the US as the 'leader of the free world', the world's protector, etc, etc, etc. If one wants to be a leader, actions speak louder than mere words and embellishments regarding one's generosity, imo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. We are assessed 22% of the U. N. budget
down from the 25% we paid for 40 years. We gave them property and a building in New York City on which they pay no taxes. The diplomats at the U. N. do not even pay their parking tickets.
As for leadership by example, you will have to take that up with Mr. Bush. The monkey just won't listen to a word I have to say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. For that 22% you have a permanent seat at the table and a veto...
most countries pay their fees with no such advantage. Given how the US has used it's veto, I suggest you are getting good value for your dollar when and if you pay it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. I would be more inclined to believe
we have the seat on the security council and veto power because of the atomic bombs we dropped on Japan in 1945.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #52
113. aah... our FIRST global SHOCK-n-AWE
Edited on Fri Dec-31-04 06:05 AM by bpilgrim

you must be/sound proud...

"hiroshima is the second most horrid word in the american lexicon, succeeded only by NAGASAKI" - kurt vonnegut

peace
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. I am not sure of the total amount of money Florida received, but
I doubt it was all in one day. Plus some money is still being paid. At least most of the money (what ever the actual dollar amount is) stayed in the American economy.
Throwing money at a problem has been one of our country's wasteful tendencies over the years. If we pile on the aid to south Asia when it cannot be effectively utilized, the aid will be wasted. Just like in Florida, so much aid was flowing people in Miami were filing claims for lawn furniture. I know of other problems involving safety and sanitation that need to be corrected before a condo owner gets a new deck chair. I also would not like to see our aid to be flown into south Asia at the risk of our pilots and assets only to sit rotting at the end of the runway because it was in the wrong place.
Haste makes waste.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PST Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. "haste makes waste"
try going without drinking water for more than 2 days and see if you still feel that way. have you been following the news at all?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Try getting your drinking water from a stack 500 miles from
where it is needed because that is where the plane was quickly sent and now there are no planes to move it because they in the repair facility for maintenance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PST Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. I'm sure that has happened
but in general I think organizations like the Red Cross and DWb pretty much know what they're doing. in any case, the last thing I'm worried about right now is that we will send too MUCH aid..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. I just saw in another thread
that the French are going to kick in some big bucks.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,142934,00.html
Good for the French.
Good for us.
Now with this quick infusion of aid, shouldn't we be working smarter not harder (read more expensive) to get the supplies to the folks who need it and not waste it? The world only has so many planes and so many ships. Taking time to make sure the assistance is on target is not being stingy; it is being practical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #68
117. Funny
Edited on Fri Dec-31-04 03:18 PM by Kathy in Cambridge
Fox News is your source? I'm amazed considering their love for the French!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #117
124. I got the link from
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #53
69. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kahutec Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. Well said!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
62. Yes, a 100,000 floridians died in those hurricanes.
Funny how the Christmas spirit up and dies on December 26th, isn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. You got a link to that story, because I missed it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. i think the U.N. went to find the missing "H" in your version of where.
:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #70
80. Sorry
I tried to edit it, but it seems the edit period has expired. I will try and be more attentive next time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
100. You've got to be f'ing kidding me!
The richest nation in the world does not take CHARITY.

I hardly recall an impending crisis the proportions of which the tsunami victims now face after the Florida hurricanes. Were MILLIONS of peoples' lives at **grave** risk in Florida due to disease and lack of food and water? Were our own relief efforts completely unable to deal with the magnitude of that disaster?

I hate to say it but I find your ME ME ME self-centered interpretation to be disgusting.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #100
108. don't waste your breath. this is pure repuke trash being regurgitated
it's always about THEM and screw everyone else and the most we can hope for is that these fuckers suddenly lose their jobs, their homes....their lives.

And MAYBE then, they'll figure out that they have been self absorbed pricks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
106. maybe we should all pitch in and help bill gates out.
...you know, volunteer our time and money to feed the rich. we can start a food bank for the poor CEO's that didn't make their benchmark numbers this quarter. boo fucking hoo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #106
114. Bill Gates
Has donated $3m.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TyeDye75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
118. Yeah and youve also been Vetoing the hell out of it since 1947. /nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
121. We don't "carry the UN" we were terribly behind on our dues
until Clinton's second term. And as stated in the main thread, more often than not we don't fulfill our obligations to the UN or aide promises.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Squeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, but
Edited on Thu Dec-30-04 11:25 AM by Squeech
it's even worse than that.

The lion's share of American aid is tied to specific projects that depend on specific American businesses getting the money-- the peace-dividend equivalent of Halliburton being in charge of the Iraq redevelopment slush fund. The aid that trickles down to the people who really need it is a mere fraction of the already stingy allocation.

But I'm not the one to ask: I'm still furious about Dumbya having the cheek to call anybody else "misinformed."

On edit: I was so angry I hit the "post message" button too soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Robber Baron US corporations like the cheap labor of Asia
but they don't give a shit about the people...

Read how little Carnegie and Frick did after the Johnstown flood caused by their negligence....only Pitcairn sent in railroad cars with some aid...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m0nkeyneck Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. do those #s include private donations?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ranec Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Would we expect other countries to send us money?
I would find it odd if France sent us $1 million the next time there was a big earthquake in California.

The fact is we are stingy--no question. Not only right now but always. The reason is that there is political will to spend $200 billion to kill and destroy, but $200 million of aid is a waste of money that could be spent on me. Politicians get more credit for budget cutting than humanitarianism. Unless there is some sort of selfish rationalization (anti-communism, anti-terrorism), our country feels no need to help out the areas of the world that are struggling.

I like the idea that I have seen floated around that the UN should set up a permanent standing organization like FEMA that would be able to move in quickly to help in these types of disasters. I don't know to what extent the Red Crescent is able to play this role.

As it is, the millions from the US will take a while to filter down to the people in Sri Lanka and Indonesia. It is much more efficient to have the resources before the disaster actually happens.

Think about the way the Red Cross works in this country, when some sort of natural disaster occurs, they solicit a bunch of donations, but that money is saved up to use in the next disaster. So they are always ready to move quickly and provide assitance in the first few days when things are the most critical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nascarblue Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. FEMA? WHat do you call UNICEF?
Edited on Thu Dec-30-04 01:33 PM by nascarblue
And as far as the Red Cross, they've set up a seperate account specifically for this disaster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ranec Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. Sorry, I guess I'm uninformed.
But I was thinking about people who could supply the big muscles of relief in the first few days:

Cargo planes, bulldozers. Specially trained teams for recovering victims from collapsed buildings. Emergency medical help. Large supplies of food and water.

Rebuilding is a whole different story.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Streetdoc270 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #58
79. US AID and FEMA USAR teams
do and are doing just that. We have to also remember that these are soverign nations and some of them have their own SAR teams and disaster relief teams. In fact I have seen a couple of stories that basically have India telling us 'If we need you we'll call'. This is a long-term event, you can't send everyting now, or you'll have nothing for later when the poor and needy who are still homeless have fallen off the news radar and people stop sending money because they beleive the disaster to be over because it no longer is new.

I do beleive that many countries offered aid and personel during the Sept 11 events, even Iraq was said to have offered a USAR team that was practiced in recovery from collapsed houses the the US bombed....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ranec Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. Let me clarify my point about the Red Cross.
I think they are doing business the _right_ way. You have to be prepared before a disaster to be really effective.

I was hoping that this disaster will lead to somebody being prepared to help in the next disaster. If there are groups that are in fact prepared in this way then this is not the impression I've been given.

Of course, the nightly news also gave me the impression that most of the people affected by this were German tourists. :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TyeDye75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
120. Well said
then again id expect nothing less from someone with Jimmy as their avatar
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. We're not stingy-we're BROKE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. You're new around here, huh? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. So dumbass made a phone call.
It was Europe and Australia that immediately sent supplies. Which is more noteworthy? Which actually might save a life?

Smirk is only in it for the photo op.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Got a link to the story?
That would help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. hell,the Clenis CAUSED the tsunami
We all know it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nascarblue Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. Speaking of photo op...
...They just fed me a bunch of crap on Powell, they showed him writing condolences in an embassy book! Can you believe these guys??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. that sounds like
a story I'd like to read. Do you have a link?
thanks :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. "Bush Calls Thai President, Begs for expeditious Thai-stick delivery "
...as his vacationis almost over and he "cut more brush than usual" over Christmas.

Some people say that was the headline.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. Strangely enough, Thailand doesn't HAVE a president.
it's been a constitutional monarchy since 1932.


the appropriate ruler would be: H.R.H. King Bhumibol Adulyadej



and that's one to grow on. :)


welcome to DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. Perhaps the President of Unocal's Thailand Division was quoted?
I'll buy that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
50. WHY should it make headlines for a "president" to do his f***ing JOB?
and THAILAND DOES NOT HAVE A G.D. PRESIDENT, much like WE DON'T EITHER
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
105. name one country that isn't
Edited on Thu Dec-30-04 08:47 PM by Kellanved
Not counting Switzerland and other "cheaters". eom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
109. apparently not. since 35 million is the cost of 4 hrs of war with iraq.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. I likes your style, catmandu
Skittles
57 too :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flagg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
40. French daily agrees US is 'stingy', compares aid pledged to pet food sales
LE FIGARO AGREES US IS 'STINGY', COMPARES AID PLEDGED TO PET FOOD SALES

Received Thursday, 30 December 2004 16:02:00 GMT
PARIS, Dec 30 (AFP) - One of France's leading daily newspapers, Le Figaro, sided with criticism that the United States had been "stingy" in its aid pledges over the Asian tsunami disaster, comparing the sum promised to the amount spent on pet food and Iraq military operations.
US President George W. Bush's initial promise to release just 15 million dollars in emergency aid was "completely riduculous given the magnitude of the catastrophe," an editorial said.
That sum represented "less than half the daily sales of dog and cat food in the United States," it said.
Put another way, it was "one-tenth of the cost of the daily cost of the war in Iraq for the US army" or "half the price of a new F-16 fighter jet," it said.
It noted that Washington had "hastily" doubled the aid amount to 35 million dollars once a UN spokesman castigated wealthy countries generally for being "stingy," but said the global public relations damage had already been done.
"Its image as a superpower -- whether a bullying one or a caring one -- is at stake," Le Figaro said, adding that the US prestige in Asia has probably taken a hit.
France, the newspaper said, had given proportionally much more, though it opined that Asia's economic prospects might have driven the "diplomatic gesture" behind that sum.
French President Jacques Chirac on Thursday ordered his government to nearly double its aid to the disaster-struck region to 44 million euros (57 million dollars).

http://www.ttc.org/200412301602.ibug2nh19598.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nascarblue Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
42. Bush has only sent 6 Red Cross Representatives!
I just watched an interview on MSNBC with the American Red Cross rep who was asking for money! When the lady reporter asked him how many people they have out there. He said "We have one person in Sri Lanka, one person in India, two people in Indonesia, and I'm going to be taking a team of out in a couple of days". Can you believe it? Bush is lying like usual. We STILL don't have anyone out there! I've heard it a few times now when they have interviewed people that are actually out there.

How messed up is it that we've had reporters out there for 3 days and we still don't have any aid workers there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eagle_Eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. I thought the Red Cross was an independent, non-government
organization. What the cheney is the monkey doing giving direction to the Red Cross. Bush needs to stick to his war and let the Red Cross do its job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #54
112. OMG
The RED CROSS hit the ground at full speed when the tsunami strike
They were there and running since Dec 26th in all countries affected
The Red Cross in an International Organisation with thousands of volunteer in each of this country.
The sister organisation is RED CRESCENT and thats the Islamic side.
They cut through all political religious and race barrier.
They done more than any organisations in the world and lots of the funding comes from the people of the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
57. how much are the rich Arab countries giving? You know what?
Between the US government and the individual American private donations, I bet we will end up giving Puhhhlenty. Bush will cough up because he will realize how dumb he looked by talking about the measly amount he first offered.

How much is Japan giving? Australia? South Korea?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
61. A true statesman? How about a true Christian?
Someone please tell me just how Jesus-like * has been during this? For someone born again, he seems to have been born of the devil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joe_sixpack Donating Member (655 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
66. The amount of aid from private citizens
and organizations, and yes, even businesses in this country will dwarf any amount from any other government entity in the world. Does anyone dispute that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
67. Why? Because wingnuts loathe foreign aid.
They consider it throwing money out the window, providing aid and comfort to (non-white) people they hate (potential enemies).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roenyc Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. exactly - we would much rather spend billions
on war with the brown people. so much more productive. yes destroy the country. then re-build it. billions a day in Iraq. 45 million for an inauguration. OK. yeah. it works. how much has halliburten stolen from us to date? hmm?

we must help others but i have to say we just used the entire budget to help these countries. will the president ever sacrifice anything? will he ever say roll back that damn tax cut? will he ever say we are in real big trouble and we need cash? so you rich guys are going to have to sacrifice?

no, he will not. but that is what needs to be done. if this country is ever to get back on its feet and be a super power it once was instead of a laughing stock it is now. spending our entire fund for aid to other countries on one disaster only after being embarrassed. shame on you gw.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Read my other post and get back to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Yeah - m'kay.
:eyes:

Your statement is stupid and without merit. There - I countered it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
miss_kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. hahahaha
"coward." sweet and priceless. I love it. super put down. You really no how to stick the knife in. I bet you made JJ cry!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
miss_kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. i agrree
:thumbsup:

I hope you're lurking, mr smartypants Kabelplink. issat German? OOPS! I guess we'll never know...:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tony_Illinois Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Your buddy Kabelplink was just
on another thread spewing some bigoted, hateful crap against gays.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. He's gone now - I had heard that from someone else, but it
didn't come up when I did the search. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tony_Illinois Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. Here is the link to thread with his hateful comments . . .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2884653

I notified the moderators about this character, but so far I do not believe he has been given the one way ticket out of here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. He's gone - click his profile and your inbox
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roenyc Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #71
87. i dont care who funds it
i am using it as a base to say that 45 million is going to go for a party for one night. understand? perhaps he can have one less case of champaign and donate a million to the shi lanka? ya think! shish.

we are in dire times. we are at war. we have a huge deficit and there is an international crisis! time for some sacrifice.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Nice post! and welcome to DU
:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roenyc Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #89
115. thank you!
i am guessing things got ugly after i left the board yesterday. thanks for the welcome.

i will never understand the desire for these people to want to come to a Dem board. When i go to the freeper board to check out a thread or sometimes i search on google and it sends me there, i feel like I need to take a shower. i walk away feeling dirty. like i just entered Ann Colter's and rush's private lair. yuck!

go Dem's! :Dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #71
101. No, it is the most expensive inauguration on record
BTW, who will be footing the bill for the unprecedented amount of security that the most reviled leader of the free world requires?

Answer: the TAXPAYERS!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Save your breath, he's got a fork in him.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smedwed Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
78. Look
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4136153.stm
World Bank $250m
UK $96m
EU $44m
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Japan: $30m
Australia: $27m
France: $20.4m
Denmark: $15.6m
Saudi Arabia: $10m
Source: Reuters, United Nations
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #78
94. & Spain: $68 million
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041230/REPOSITORY/412300361/1013/NEWS03\\

& welcome to DU!


<snip>
The usual U.S. contribution during major disasters is 25 to 33 percent of total international aid, according to Brian Atwood, former director of the U.S. Agency for International Development during the Clinton administration. So far, the U.S. contribution is 13 percent of the $270 million in international aid that the U.N. said yesterday has been pledged since the tsunami struck. Spain has pledged $68 million, almost twice what United States has contributed so far. Japan has provided $30 million, Britain $29 million, Germany $27 million, Australia $27.6 million, France $20.5 million and Denmark $15.5 million, the U.N. reported.

The current U.S. aid also is significantly lower than in other recent natural disasters. After Hurricane Mitch in 1998, when some 9,000 were killed and 3 million were left homeless in Central America, the United States provided $988 million in relief aid.

<snip>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. I'm proud to say Britian is sending $96m
and pledges from the British public have reached nearly $50m. It's never enough though, is it? Hundreds of thousands of people are homeless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. Updated
Edited on Thu Dec-30-04 07:08 PM by aneerkoinos
UK: $96m
Sweden: $75m
Spain: $68m
EU: $44m
France: $42m (Including France's share of EU aid)
Japan: $40m
Netherlands: $36
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Australia: $27m
Germany: $27m
Denmark: $15.6m
Portugal: $11m
Saudi Arabia: $10m
Qatar: $10m
Other European countries, Iran, Kuwait, China: $25m

Sum: $528m



Updated with additional info from
http://www.turkishpress.com/world/news.asp?id=041230183636.soio214u.xml
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-12/31/content_2399270.htm

Private donations are flowing in, some info collected from
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=968784&tw=wn_wire_story

UK: $39m
US Red Cross: $18m
US Unicef fund: $37m
Finland: $4m
Italy: $17
Through Amazon.com: $4m
Switzerland: $9m
Netherlands: $13m
Catholic Relief Services $25m

Pfizer: $10m in cash plus lot's of free medicine worth $20m.

World Bank: $250m



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #97
104. I understand from tonight's TV news that $50m is just the start
Channel 5 earlier said close to a million an hour is being given. I hope the same is true of the USA!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
95. Well, the rest of the world
will no doubt see the Chimp being feted at his inauguration and be happy that the money is being so well spent.
Do you think he has any idea where Indonesia actually is?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
110. I'm glad the US doesnt raise taxes specifically to increase foreign aid...
its better that every American decide for themselves which charities or aid groups they will assist, where they want thier foreign aid going to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissBrooks Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
119. I just read this on-line
I believe in humankind and know that we will do everything we can to assist our brothers and sisters during this tragedy...

What I read on-line in the last hour...

The United States is pledging $350 million to help tsunami victims, a tenfold increase over its first wave of aid.

France has promised $57 million,
Britain has pledged $95 million,
Sweden is sending $75.5 million and
Spain is offering $68 million, although that pledge is partly in loans.
Australia's government committed an extra A$25 million (US$19.4 million) to tsunami aid relief on Friday, taking its total to A$60 million.

Private companies are donating everything from cash to diapers, antibiotics and creams to mask the stench of decaying bodies.

*** Among the biggest givers are the pharmaceutical giant
Pfizer Inc., which is giving $10 million in cash and $25 million worth of drugs;
Coca-Cola Co., donating $10 million;
Exxon Mobil Corp., giving $5 million; and
Citigroup Inc., contributing $3 million.
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has pledged $3 million.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC