DU Graphic Artists...HELP!!!! The Liberation needs a symbol!

[xultar]

We've noticed that the racists down here in the south are using the SC state flag instead of the Confederate Flag.

The wingnuts are also using the support the troops flags even though they could care less about the troops dying for no reason and they don't wanna vote out the idiot that is getting them killed.

We need a symbol.

Please design one, anything that can be put on mugs, lapel pins, mouse pads, clocks, t-shirts sweat, shirts, thongs, canvas bags, flags, etc...

I think you get the IDEA. Please can we get this together? I need something to show that I'm not with them. I need something to see out there that lets me know that I'm not alone.

PLEASE help with this project.

[Jo March]

1. Kick for graphics folks! nt

[xultar]

2. Kick puhleezzz bookmark this thread so you can post your designs

:)

[chaska]

5. I say we use your killer avatar, Xult...

I just love it! It makes me smile ... and arouses me slightly. :shrug:

What's this about the SC flag? That's where I'm from (I currently live in CA though). You aren't in SC, are you? I guess if you wanted me to know that you woulda put it in your profile, huh? I withdraw the question.

Why not a donkey? On edit: A lean and wiry, hardass, pissed off donkey .

Go Clark!

[xultar]

11. I'm in GA. That is why the whole thing is crazy. I see more SC than

GA flags.

If DU votes for my Avatar sure we can use it. I'm sure a chocolate woman with pink hair would drive the fundies to jump from tall buildings. So we'd kill 2 birds @ once 1. we'd have a symbol and 2 the fundies would be done-dees...

As for the donkey, I think we need something undercover but slick. But, if DUers go for it, I'm for it.

[chaska]

18. Mmm, chocolate woman with pink hair...

tasty.

[housewolf]

19. I wonder...

if this is about the movement to have hundreds of thousands of fundies move to South Caralina and take it over and implement biblical law?

[xultar]

26. Yup.,..some where in this thread read the Check this out post....that is

exactly what that is. You hit the nail on the head.

here's a linkie poo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2885467&mesg_id=2885545

[complain jane]

3. Graphic artist, needs more info please

Symbol say anything? Specific colors?

[xultar]

12. Something that captures the progressive movement....determination

strength, tolerance and peace.

Whaddaya think?

[Taxloss]

4. OK, here's a quickie:

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgAAAHcXoIMA3dC50i4CoTgE1PeFaqGtTlWsjZ*g93emdXmbRTq7Llg3b0xrowTxpzEnRwFYmHL8fJgYk48zu2q2uBzgjquf0cHinJsWtD5QP3eP58bcCw/Peaceis.jpg?dc=4675503836703726308

I'm sorry it's so rough, I did it in 20 mins.

[Taxloss]

6. Kick

I know it's in bad taste to kick your own message, but I worked on this and I'd like some feedback, even if it's negative.

And how do you post pictures?!

[nostamj]

7. the pic has to be on the web

and on a site that allows linking.

then, right mouse click over the graphic, choose "Properties"

select and copy the full URL

and paste into your DU message

http: //prodtn.cafepress.com/nocache/2/15386422_F_tn.jpg

without the space in the URL above, you would see this:

[xultar]

13. The link didn't work sweetie...can you help me with that?

Just the http. If you PM me I can give you my email and I'll host it.

[nostamj]

8. PLEASE give me some clue about what you're looking for....

check out www.cafepress.com/nostamj for 'some' of my graphic work.

i've done lots of logos but, i have NO idea what kind of design you're looking for....

[xultar]

14. I want something that will symbolize our progressive values. We're

strong, tolerant, loving, determined and peaceful people.

Something that would look good to put on all sorts of stuff. I was thinking of a fleur de lis worked in some how.

[jimfromthebronx10469]

16. nostamj....checked out your website and...

thought it was outstanding..you seem to be a creative person and i salute you..one day i hope to be a p.c. geek but i'm over 50 now...anyway have a happy new year:hangover: :hangover: :hangover: :hi: :dem:

[xultar]

25. I know nostamj is JAMMIN! n/t

[calimary]

58. Kick for nostamj and others.

Glad you posted your site here - I'd lost track of it in my notes.

[nostamj]

64. i got spoiled by having a sig line!

Nostamj_blog

[Tinoire]

9. Great idea but I think mine might be a litte too extreme

(with credit to NightTrain)

[jimfromthebronx10469]

17. that's funny................

loved it.....shows how bill really felt towards the madness of it all..:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :hi: :dem:

[xultar]

24. It is a bit IN Yo Face, but hasn't * done that. We have the video of *

flippin off the film crew. I don't think they'd like us to copy *'s best moment.

[Tinoire]

29. Lol! NO they wouldn't!

I just got such a kick out of it, I had to bookmark it. Saving it for trolls ;)

[xultar]

42. I have armor for trolls in my bookmars also. At least we are organized

to handle them here.

[Tinoire]

151. LMAO! I would have to be really mad with a really obvious, obnoxious

troll to whip that one out. My normal one is the upside down flag for distress... somehow that really upsets them.

Btw, are the mods still sending people "love letters" for infractions?

[Tinoire]

10. TeeYiYi's great at this type of stuff. Here's a flag

TeeYiYi designed for Iraq when the US came out with that insulting one that caused such a ruckus.

Iraq deserves a BETTER flag

TeeYiYi (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-28-04 08:24 PM
Original message
Iraq deserves a BETTER flag . . .

Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 08:47 PM by TeeYiYi

I have been so bugged by the blatant symbolism that was built into Iraq's 'new' flags. Both of them. :eyes: It seems obvious to me, what the colors and symbols of their new flag SHOULD be and should NOT be. I know I'm not the only one here who wonders if Ariel Sharon's grandson had a hand in designing the flag with the blue stripes.

If the war in Iraq is truly about helping the Iraqi people then it stands to reason that they deserve a flag that would better represent them and that they can be proud of.

So I designed them a new one which stands for a unified Iraq, nestled in a field of green (stands for growth and Islamic ideals) between the Tigres and Euphrates rivers (two black stripes). A flag for a country that embraces its diversity — three peoples (three crescents) under Islam living together peacefully as one (one white star symbolic of Islam and the white dove of peace) and prospering together in a new democratic society that they sacrificed their lives to realize.



I had several ideas but this one was my favorite. There are dozens of ways that this flag could be designed that wouldn't be a slap in the face to the good people of Iraq. After all they have gone through in the name of a free Iraq, they deserve a flag that they can be proud of and that will give them hope.

This thread is for all of DU's amazing artists and designers to create a flag that Iraq might be proud of.

Calling all DUers — bring your ideas . . .

TYY


Edited to clarify that Iraq deserves a better flag than the blue and white one that has been foisted on them in the last few days. I didn't mean to suggest that there was anything wrong with their original flag. There was nothing wrong with the old flag. ~TYY

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1492037#1492052

[xultar]

15. WOW that flag is BEAUTIFUL!!!! n/t

[Tinoire]

20. Glad you liked it! Want u to know it took me an hour to find that for u

A small form of penance for a misunderstanding we had- evidence of which is still in my in box what seems like a lifetime ago, lol ;)

But seriously, if you're interested, let me know. I haven't noticed TeeYiYi posting but I do have contact info if PM doesn't work.

I'm really glad you liked it. I was in love with it when I saw it.

She'll take the thought of what you want and run with it, putting a lot of feeling behind it for you. Just as she did in this flag.

TeeYiYi rocks! So do you Xultar!

[xultar]

22. AWWW thanks...you know we're kewl. And an hour to find, that is

a big deal.
Send me a PM if you ever want me to return the favor and I'll search for you too.

Great minds think a like, I've PMed TeeYiYi and she's on the job.

:pals: and :yourock: too!

[Tinoire]

27. Yes lol! She just PMd me! Got her open in another window

Brother Xultar- we are in this together and you have no idea how my admiration of you has grown over the year!!! No idea! And it's posts like this that have done it.
Love you.

:yourock:

On edit: Isn't DU fun?! Our own little virtual community :)

[Brundle_Fly]

38. I am a Graphic Artist.

with almost 20 years in illustration and design.

Am I too late?

[xultar]

49. Heck no! I'm looking for a symbol that represents the progressive

movement. Something not so obvious...but something we can use to recognize each other.

Symbolisim with colours would be nice but something that would look great on t shirts, hats, you know any and everything. Something that the DU admins can put on mercendise in the DU stores, something that can be put in cafepress that we can all have access to.

computer backgrounds, key rings lapel pins, you name it. The wingnuts and racists have gone underground and developed some symbolism that is subtle...the SC flag.
I would like to have something that is kickin that they don't understand.

What ya got?

[chookie]

31. Hey man -- that is a great design

It's beautiful -- and your explanation of it brought tears to my eyes.

At last -- something for the Iraqi people that they really deserve!

[Tinoire]

33. It is a beautiful flag but meanwhile they're stuck with this

That's an improvment on the first insulting design that was even more similar to Israel's, implying total subjugation but still not good.

I wish they had cared enough to consult someone like TeeYiYi, our very own DU artist, who could have helped them "ease" the pain.

[T Town Jake]

37. Ah yes...that evuuul Israeli flag...

...what will those wascally Jews do next? Assert a right to exist!?! Fly a FLAG!?!?! Outrageous... :eyes:

Your anti-semitic slip is showing, dear.

[hippywife]

39. Not anti-semetic at all to state the obvious!

It was a numbskull idea to create a flag for an Arab nation that looked almost exactly like the Israeli flag. It only served to further anger all kinds of people. Given the recent, and not so recent history, of the area it was pure stupidity.

Walk up to an angry bear and slap it with a switch, why doncha?

[T Town Jake]

45. How abouts we conduct a seminar, and bring you up to speed:

"That's an improvement on the first insulting design that was even more similar to Israel's, implying total subjugation but still not good"

Forget for a second this ridiculous, wasteful war in Iraq; forget, too, just for a wee second, the idiotic administration which brought it about; and then re-read the quoted sentence above.

:think:


:think:


:think:

There. Do you have the full flavor of it yet? That post reeks of anti-semitism of the worst sort. A war conducted by The United States, and run by Americans pretty much across the board suddenly becomes entangled in an Israeli "problem," because a flag forwarded by Americans resembles the emblem of the Jewish State in some vague way. Those evil Jews, ya know, with their nefarious "total subjugation" connections...Berlin in 1938 no doubt rang with similar sentiments from pillar-to-post (no pun intended). It's as ugly now as it was then - you need to get real.

[hippywife]

46. The whole argument against the

new flag design, besides the fact there was no reason to do it, was a matter of perspective. Not yours or mine but the people who would have to live with it. Not a very sensitive move by any means.

Obviously a point missed by the person who submitted the design.

[Tinoire]

48. How about we remember what really happened instead ?

Or would that be too hard? Tell me you just weren't paying attention at the time. If your accusation weren't so silly, I'd dig up all the old threads so you could also assume all the Jewish posters here who pointed out the same thing of anti-Semitism or the sillier alternative. THINK. THINK. THINK.

:wow:
Sheesh. Must be my lying eyes! Tell me if you need more information or if you prefer to persist in that rididulous allegation and accuse the entire world of anti-Semitism for having noticed, and not having liked, the particularly insensitive similarity.

====
(snip)

The design marked a notable break with the colours used in other Arab flags, which have lengthy histories – green and black are used to represent Islam and red is used to represent Arab nationalism. Islamic crescents are usually depicted in green or red in Arab heraldry. The flag's predominantly blue-on-white appearance immediately led to controversy in Iraq because of its resemblance to the flag of Israel, with whom Iraq has had considerable antagonism (indeed, a number of the original proposals for the Israeli flag did include yellow). Other critics lamented the omission of the traditional colours of Pan-Arabism and the omission of the phrase "Allahu Akbar", irrespective of who put it there.

(snip)
The new flag was reported to have been burned by insurgents in Fallujah on 27 April 2004, the day before its planned official adoption. Interestingly, the flag had never yet been publicly displayed, sold, or otherwise distributed, so the desecrators were burning hand-made flags.

On 28 April, Governing Council President Massoud Barzani formally presented a modified version of the flag in which the originally very light shade of blue as reported by the press on 26 April had been changed to a darker tone; it was unclear whether this was a change made because of the protests made against the original design or, as the Council claimed, a rectification of printing errors in the earlier news reports



"To better understand the controversy, compare the flags of Iraq's neighbors, Iraq's older flags, and the proposed flag".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Iraq

Iraqis Say Council-Approved National Flag Won't Fly

By Pamela Constable
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, April 27, 2004


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A43438-2004Apr26¬Found=true

(snip)

But the new national flag, presented Monday after an artistic competition sponsored by the Iraqi Governing Council, appears to have met with widespread public disapproval here -- in part because of its design and in part because of the increasing unpopularity of the U.S.-appointed council.

(snip)

In interviews in several Baghdad neighborhoods, a variety of residents expressed strong negative reactions to the flag, which was reproduced in most daily newspapers. In particular, people objected to the pale blue color of the crescent and stripes, saying it was identical to the dominant color in the flag of Israel, a Jewish state.

"When I saw it in the newspaper, I felt very sad," said Muthana Khalil, 50, a supermarket owner in Saadoun, a commercial area in central Baghdad. "The flags of other Arab countries are red and green and black. Why did they put in these colors that are the same as Israel? Why was the public opinion not consulted?"

__ Iraq's New Flag __

Some Iraqis are upset that the proposed design for the country's flag resembles the Israeli flag.

The Iraqi Flag Design Under Saddam Hussein


New Iraqi Flag Proposed by U.S.-Appointed Governing Council


The Flag of the State of Israel



http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A43438-2004Apr26¬Found=true

New Iraqi flag stirs complaints

(snip)

The new design not only abandons the symbols of Saddam's regime. It also avoids the colors used in other Arab flags: green and black for Islam and red for Arab nationalism. The change recalls the U.S. agenda of creating a "New Iraq" that is exceptional in the Arab world.

(snip)

The only country in the Middle East with blue stripes in its flag is Israel, which has a Star of David on a field of white between horizontal blue bands.

Council spokesman Hameed al-Kafaei said the designer, artist Rifat al-Chaderchi, was asked to touch up the color of the crescent, perhaps to a darker blue or a different color. The final version will be announced later this week.

(snip)

In Arabic nations, the colors of flags have widely recognized meanings.

Green, white and black denote Islam -- harkening back to the battle banners of the medieval Islamic dynasties of the Fatimids, Ummayads and Abbasids. Green is said to have been the prophet Muhammad's favorite color; the Saudi, Libyan, Algerian and Mauritanean flags are completely or largely green.

Islamic crescents in Arab heraldry are usually green or red.

Red, meanwhile, points to Arab nationalism. It was the color of the Sharif Hussein, who led the Arab revolt against Ottoman Turkish rule in the early 1900s, and he added it to a flag of green, white and black stripes to create a symbol of pan-Arabism.

(snip)

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-flag0426,0,6254805.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

[Tinoire]

47. What a silly thing to say

Guess you missed the international flap over the first version of that flag that had the US scrambling for 'damage control'.

==

Okay, so they don't look exactly alike. And, the new Iraqi design was chosen by "the legitimate representatives of Iraq." ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43438-2004Apr26.html ) And, it represents "...the democracy and freedom of the new Iraq".
But rarely is the question asked: "Are we really this stupid?"




http://plasmastate.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/27/102530/176

[hippywife]

40. Tinoire!

That is a beautiful flag! Very inspiring. Aside from the fact that we have no place redesigning anyone else's flag, if a redesign were desired by the people in question that flag is a winner--hands down!

Kudos to TeeYiYi on a work of art! Maybe one day the sentiment behind it will be realized.

[Tinoire]

53. Hi Hippywife!

How wonderful to see you! :hi:

And thank you for your support and defense! I so totally agree, we had no right to redesign something as culturally sensitive as a country's flag! I was relieved to see when I went to dig up those articles to illustrate for TownJake or whatever his name is, that that flag was very quietly after all the trouble it caused.

TeeYiYi is great. I fell in love with her flag the moment I saw it- not just because of the much-needed cultural sensitivity she brought to the redesign but because it's visually stunning.

I'm so happy to see you again- people like you are what makes this place great!

[hippywife]

88. Can't think of a better use for my 1000th post than to

come to your defense. ;)

I've always really appreciated your sentiments here and all the work you put in on your research. Especially on behalf of your hero and mine.

You're a real asset to this place and I'm always interested to read what you have to say.

Happy New Year, Compadre! :)

[Tinoire]

103. Your 1000th post??!

First of all CONGRATULATIONS!

:party: :bounce: :party: :party: :bounce:

Then, wow, I'm honored! Thank you for that lovely compliment. Happy New Year to you too Compadre! :)

[Ladyhawk]

116. I wish the Iraqis could see TeeYiYi's flag...do you think they'd like it?

I do. It's a beautiful design.

[Tinoire]

145. I wish they could too! Maybe we could use it at future protests

I have a feeling the Iraqis wouldn't mind :hi:

[Ladyhawk]

148. Oh, that would be cool. Then we would know if they liked it.

Does someone have the expertise to actually make this flag? It's beautiful and perfect. Of course, that's my opinion as a Westerner. The Iraqis would really have the final say.

[Tinoire]

150. Well if TeeYiYi agrees, I think we could start posting it

on Indymedia as a gift from the American people. Something tells me that from Indymedia it would be seen and reach the right people.

[calimary]

59. That is a lovely design!

I'm impressed - and not just with the design but also the digging you put in to find it. MAN are we a world-class research facility or what (another reason why I think DU deserves to be classified as a full-on think tank).

This one beats that other embarrassment by a mile. That other one looks like it's got a big "C" on it - probably for capitalism. No wonder the Iraqi people don't like it.

[Tinoire]

105. Hi Calimary - Any ideas?

:hi: Good to see you!

You know that's TeeYiYi's work & design right? I can't draw for the life of me. I've been thinking about this and had a couple of ideas but since I can't draw I'm kind of stuck. I think I might ask TeeYiYi is she thinks one of them is worthwile enough to whip something out.

The digging was for Xultar's great idea. He's about to give our non-violent revolution a symbol which I think will kick-start a more coordinated and visible effort. It's so cool to see DU leading the way yet again! Peace my friend!

[Hatalles]

99. That is very good!

Love your explanation of it too! Great work!

[Tinoire]

104. Gotta set the record straight Lol... That is all TeeYiYi

I just cut and pasted ;)

TeeYiYi! Show your face in this thread lol! Hurry up and get over that dental pain and report for duty lol!

[Taxloss]

119. That's a beautiful flag.

Green and black go so well together.

The centre does look a bit like the Consignia logo, though:

[Tinoire]

146. Lol... Well when you care enough to send the very best

;)

[haele]

182. That's both beautiful and symbolic of what Iraq could become

I hope it gets passed up the chain and considered.

Haele

[chaska]

21. I think the idea here is self-identification.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I think part of what we're after is recognition of our kind among the throng. I've been thinking along the same lines for several weeks now.

I think we should - in addition to this and other efforts - find a style. Make being a Dem the fashion. I've been thinking that an association (and a remembering) with the post depression heyday Dem years would be a good thing.

The obvious thing would be to echo the dress of the era. I also think it is imperative that we re-embrace the tradtional liberal values that come out of that era. Added together, that means working class style. I think newsboy caps are really sexy on both men and women. Other possibilities: Overalls (god, women are hot in overalls), coveralls, bandana/neckerchief (sp?), workboots - just throwing stuff out there. Any fashion people out there want to tackle this?

This may already have started. I saw a commercial the other night that featured a black man wearing a newsboy cap and wearing a beard. It looked very updated/classy working class. Very cool.

It would also be good to echo the late-Thirties graphics style. I think it is extremely important that we *remember* our past glory as Dems, not just for morale, but to remind America what the hell we've done for them. It all springs from that time period.

Maybe this should be its own thread???

[xultar]

23. Great minds think a like again---yes! We need an identity.

The rethugs have theirs, I want one. I wanna see us out there I wanna feel us out there. Right now I feel so alone among the wingnuts. IT appears they control everything the media, how we speak, what's reported, how it's reported, and whether something is reported.

I need something to be able to recognize my kind. I have a feeling we are going to need this going forward.

[Cronus Protagonist]

28. Black Hoodies?

With a nod to Eminem... just a thought.




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[xultar]

50. I like the idea of the hoodies but how can that be applied to a lapel

pin? I can't wear a black hoodie in the office on most occasions. So when I can't I need something I can put on a key ring, on my pc background, hang from the mirror in my ride...etc.

[Tacos al Carbon]

161. Of course

Because a violent, gay-hating, mysoginististic convicted felon is just the type of guy that Democrats should seek to associate themselves with.

[FizzFuzz]

166. I have to affirm this opinion.

E has done nothing to redress his public disseminations of hate towards gay folks and women.

The mosh video had ONE positive female character who was a complete stereotype (she's subservient to her man and makes alot of babies), no female military in the crowd of soldiers, no females in the ever growing crowd of black hoodie dissenters (until the one female joins the resistance at the end), and of course no gay characters. The only other noticeable female figures in the vid were a couple of mink and daimond wearing walk-throughs on the arms of the rich corporate ceo's.

[Tinoire]

56. I second that - would be great to have a DU graphic contest

kind of like Move On's contest to see who could come up with the best ad. It would be very good for Americans to have a national symbol of protest.

Looks like DU is on to something great yet again!

Solidarnos' :bounce:

[annabanana]

77. "Muscular" Democratic Images

[xultar]

95. I dig this imagery! n/t

[OnionPatch]

121. OMG!

I used to work there! (That IS a blast furnace, isn't it?)
What an awesome painting!

[Peter Frank]

30. Interesting site...

... http://www.ceo4u.com/sites/wash/images/2004/index1.htm



Wash your flag of
the 13 stains

1. Blind Patriotism
2. Classism
3. Consumerism
4. Government and
....Corporate Corruption
5. Deception
6. Hypocrisy
7. Environmental Injustice
8. Imperialism
9. Militarism/Occupation
10. Racism
11. Sexism
12. Criminal Injustice
13. Arrogance

[xultar]

51. I love that concept because the wingnuts can't use that like they do

the flag burning.

[alfredo]

32. An idea

It is simple, and full of symbolism.

[Peter Frank]

34. I get it, I think...

... a golden delicious apple that Eve haddn't corrupted by offering it to Adam. ...Nah, too snakey.

Feminist opinions???

[alfredo]

61. The apple is the symbol of knowledge.

Blue signifies vigilance, justice, patriotism, freedom, peace, perseverance & justice." That's what blue signifies in the Great Seal of the USA.

I picked a golden delicious because the gold signifies justice.

[manic expression]

124. What about

the wreath (the one that Greeks put around their heads) as a symbol of wisdom? I like the idea of the apple, though.

[alfredo]

125. And the green would point to our

commitment to the environment.

The Laurel wreath could also be seen as imperial or elitist.

[manic expression]

127. I'm pretty sure

the Romans used it as an imperial symbol, but I'm also pretty sure that the Greeks used it differently. In my opinion it will exude wisdom more than power, but that is a good point.

[alfredo]

134. When I see the wreath, I think of Caeser.

I like the Greek use, but I fear most would associate it with the Roman Empire.

[jdots]

35. the problem about our symbol and why it doesn't exist

it wouldn't fit on a mug or a flag or bumper sticker.
This would be too simple maybe American flag and the slogan is " Fix it or Forget it " kind of the anti " Love it or Leave it " bullshit from the last war. we have to think in non rebuttle terms," The Christian Right is Neither " is cute but we can't just put them down,we have to put freedom and democracy up..

this is one hard assignment .....

[xultar]

44. I'd like a way of recognizing people lin like mind. Especially on the

road. I feel lost. Yes, I live in a red state. Where they play Faux News EVERYWHERE!

[Ladyhawk]

117. I feel for you. I live in a red county where they play Faux News...

...everywhere. What's so hard is that I'm in California!!!!! I want to move to the coast, but now I'm afraid of earthquakes.

[radfringe]

36. No Surrender

http://www.cafepress.com/radicalfringe



===========

http://radfringe.tripod.com/

[xultar]

52. I love it, but I was thinking of something a little more subtle something

that was undercover. Plus, the wingnuts might mistake me as one of theirs. You know how they are about fighting with other peoples children to the death but they won't send their own.

[DeepGreen]

55. xultar, thanks for what you are doing !!!

When a design is ready, will it be posted in this thread ?
I read something similar to that above.
I don't want to miss it.

:yourock:

[radfringe]

57. have to be careful with "undercover"

if it's too subtle people won't understand it

I do see your point about it being misunderstood by a wingnut -- however it would give me a chuckle to see this on a wingnuts car who thought he was supporting the bush mis-adminstration when it really means NO SURRENDERING TO THE MIS-ADMINISTRATION...

it reminds me of an old neighbor who would drive around with a rainbow flag sticker on her car because she thought it was pretty -- had no idea what it symbolized...

meanwhile -- this is even less subtle


I voted and all I got was a lousy president

http://www.cafepress.com/radicalfringe.14527236

[xultar]

65. I'm collecting a lot of the kewl stuff from Cafepress that I can't wear or

display. I want my children to know that their mom was kewl and that I did fight against the BFFE. I don't even have kids well human kids, and I know these times will go down in history. I want my kids to know I fought on the right side ...the LEFT side.

[Swamp Rat]

41. I like peace signs so I made these:

[xultar]

43. Yo SwampRat. I'm diging these for some T-shirts. n/t

[Ladyhawk]

118. Those are very nice. I dig tie-dye.

I have three tie-dye shirts that I wear with John Lennon glasses. I was way too young when folks protested the Vietnam War, but wearing tie-dye and Lennon glasses makes me feel like I'm part of what happened then.

Can you imagine mixing tie-dye with 30's style clothing. :) That would be wild and sort of cool.

[Swamp Rat]

120. Well, I occasionally wear my tie-dye peace sign shirt

which goes well with jeans and sandals. I have some Lennon glasses somewhere too, but they are in poor condition.

Did you mean 1930s style clothing? Tie-dye zoot suits? :)

[Debs]

128. I have

A tye-dyed, peace sign tee shirt too, I wear it to work all the time. I live in a red state but I have a union job so most people I work with are at least somewhat progressive. I love the peace sign but its probably not workable for what the thread is looking for. I unfortunatly cant even draw a circle. My idea would involve a circle, to symbolize inclusion, with rainbow colors to show diversity, and three words, Unity, Empathy, Liberty

[Swamp Rat]

131. OK, here you go:

"its probably not workable for what the thread is looking for" - I respectfully disagree.

You did say something about inclusion, so I included your idea with mine. I still prefer the symbol sans the English words, but this is okay by me.

[Debs]

180. Beautiful

I would put the words on the rim. I think its gorgeous, maybe that just shows me for the aging hippy I am. I love it though. Thank you for making it. I would never be able to do that. Its even better than I imagined

[Ladyhawk]

130. Well, not zoot suits.

Someone above was talking about identifying with people during FDR's term as president by wearing similar clothing. Yes, 1930s-45ish clothing. :) I'm not familiar with clothing of that era...maybe a newsboy's hat with a tie-dyed hatband? :)

[Swamp Rat]

132. I'd like to have an all silk, tie-dyed zoot suit!

I pretty much dress up like that anyway for Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest, Day of Decadence, protests, and when I play music... Man, I need to learn how to make my own clothes on a sewing machine! x( Do you know where I can get good patterns (cheap) for making Renaissance/Baroque style dress?

[Ladyhawk]

133. Sorry, I'm illiterate when it comes to sewing.

I'm positive some DUer could help you, though. We have quite a variety of folks here. :) BTW, I always enjoy your "green reptile" pics of the Shrub Admin...LOL! :) They remind me of that crazy bastard, David Icke. I've gone to his site for kicks when I'm bored. :)

[Swamp Rat]

136. I just finished this one:

I did this one because I unconditionally support a woman's right to choose:

[FizzFuzz]

169. Folkways makes some Renaissance and ethnic patterns

also check www.patternsoftime.com
another one, have a look at www.sewingcentral.com for medieval and renaissance patterns

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

183. Thanks for the links

By the way, we swamp rats think the republican mascot should be the Ebola virus. :D

[FizzFuzz]

184. I totally agree!!

:hi:
hope you like those links

[jman0]

54. what about

this:
Seems apt today: progressives are besiged by the archaically minded RW idiots.
Besides, if THEY like to hijack national symbols, why not borrow a page from their book.

[InvisibleBallots]

75. jman0 - YES - that is the perfect symbol

I'm sick and tired of cons stealing all of American's symbols for their own - the Don't Tread on Me Flag is PERFECT for us.

[WritersBlock]

60. How about the Solidarity Clip?

I think Atman suggested something similar in an earlier thread. I'll try to find it.

_________

Sorry, I can't find that thread; I thought I had it bookmarked. It was about the blue paperclips based on the paperclips used in Norway in WWII.

[Zenlitened]

63. I think that's definitely on the right track...

... or should I say LEFT track? :D

It's very straightforward, easy to identify.

I have to confess to some ignorance, though. I've seen it referenced a few times, usually as a blue paper-clip, but what's the origin?

[Atman]

78. The blue paper clip...origins and links

This is my site, btw....

http://www.rmcgcreative.com/comics/nby/solidarity.php

[Zenlitened]

81. Wow. Sounds like the paper-clip already has a life of its own.

That makes it an awfully strong candidate, in my view.

Your site looks great, by the way. And I think the business-card explainer is a FANTASTIC idea. Really brings out the word-of-mouth, neighbor-to-neighbor aspect of the project. Nice work!

:toast:

[Atman]

83. There are many DUers to thank

I brought up the idea after hearing a news story about kids collecting paper clips to memorialize halocaust survivors. But DUers ran with it like gangbusters. GoClark, BrooklynLibrl, and many others have adopted paper clip avatars and been active in promoting the symbolism. Sorry I can't think of all the names. Here is a link to the original thread about it, if you're interested.

Thanks for the props!

DU Paper Clip Thread

[xultar]

113. I would like to thank as well. I have huge paper clips hanging from

my brief case and rear view mirror.

[xultar]

67. I don't mind that. but I'd like people here@ DU to agree on that

as the symbol and for it to be put in the DU store and as many stores as we can to spread the word.

[Zenlitened]

62. An example of something subtle but distinctive might be...

... the HRC logo:



Years ago, when it was first introduced, it was very much an "insider" thing -- very few people outside the GLBT community knew what it stood for. And they only found out by asking! :D

[xultar]

66. I like that...that is exactly what I was thinking...word of mouth

nothing written but you have to ask and hear the story to know the symbolism.

[cags]

68. I'm a graphic artist, I'll work on some today

and post them later.

Just for clarification,

No words
Nothing obvious
Kind of like a coat of arms

Is that right?

I'm pretty good at fleur de lis type stuff,

[alfredo]

69. It should be very simple so a person with spray paint or

a couple cans of paint can knock it out quickly and cheaply.

I did one earlier of a Golden Delicious apple on a field of blue. I then described the symbolism behind the colors and the image. #32 and then #61.

[starroute]

70. A few standards I think it should meet

I think it should be something like the peace symbol:

An abstract sign, not a picture of anything and not a recognizable everyday form like a paper clip.

A design you've never seen before. Something with no prior associations. (Especially not the fleur de lys, which was the symbol of the French monarchy.)

So simple it can be scrawled on a wall or worked into jewelry. Not dependent on the use of color. But also able to be elaborated and decorated.

If possible, something with elements that symbolize solidarity, caring, mutuality, and unity-in-diversity. Probably involving circles more than straight lines.

Actually, what comes to my mind is some of the crop circle designs, which (whatever their real origin) tend to be both extremely powerful and extremely harmonious. See http://www.lovely.clara.net/history.html

[Veritas et Ratio]

71. Too bad it's religious

Because the symbolism behind the Cross of Lorraine being the emblem of the Maquis resistance in France against the Nazis is very appropriate.

[xultar]

73. I like it but you are right... We need something that all people feel

comfortable displaying.

[xultar]

72. I could go with that. Do you wanna start a poll with a link

to this thread...putting your standards to a vote.

You've got mine. I just want us to come up with standards agree on them, then have a design contest, and then vote...then start using it ASAP.

Something we can have ready by 1/20/05 if we need it.

[Zenlitened]

76. Possibilities for abstract signs

Definitely check out http://www.symbols.com

Some examples:


"This structure appears in seventeenth-century alchemy. Its meaning is unclear, although it might possibly be fuse. It is also found in the British system of hobo signs and means take this road, it's better."
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/06/061.html


"Alinea, a typographical sign formerly used in printed texts. It indicated the beginning of a new train of thought, a new paragraph."
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/54/5437.html

[starroute]

79. "Take this road, it's better"

I like that.

I like the symbol, too. It's simple enough to put up anywhere, not similar to anything else, and non-specific enough that unless you know what it means, you'd never even notice it.

(And I like the general idea of hobo signs. They remind me of the secret mark Galdalf puts on Bilbo's door at the beginning of The Hobbit to tell the dwarves this is the place to gather.)

[chaska]

84. I like that first one....

What about putting a circle around that?

[Tikki]

92. I like the first one.."take this road, it's better...

...I, also, like the concept of PST...Peace, Strength,Tolerance...

Could the initials be combined, somewhere, with or within the first symbol?

[cags]

96. I did combine those exact initials earlier today in my post below

With the same meanings

Great minds think alike

[slutticus]

138. The second one reminds me of a sideways elephant.

[Debs]

129. Wow

I posted my response before I read this obviously we are on the same page

[cags]

74. Here's my first one, I'll come up with some more today too

The words can be changed but I think It shows solidarity and that there is definitely a movement. And its enough to make people ask "What is that about"

[idiosyncratic]

80. I like that a lot. Good job.

[Lizzie Borden]

144. I like it very much.

[chaska]

82. I think we may be going about this kind of backwards.

I like what starroute is saying. I think we should think about what we are trying to represent here. Thnk back during the campaign, was there any episode that had some sort of physical association that could be used as a symbol? What is the cnetral idea we're trying to represent? What is our beef, our central issue? Let's look more closely at ideas. We'll never agree on a symbol unless we agree on an issue first.

I think one of the central ideas for me is the need to re-embrace the traditional definition of Democrat. Not DLC, in other words. There's the need to deal with Corporatism as well. Which may be the root issue behind another problem: Election fraud. Somebody needs to be thinking about these things. Where's that confounded think tank we were going to start?

All that said, I really like the hobo signs idea. It really conveys all or most of the above pretty well. We need to remember the FDR New Deal era and remind America what we've done for them. It also communicates that we are the party of the working class. And that Americans are suffering financially. The hobo association does all of the above. It's really an awesome idea.

As for the design aspects, simplicity is definitely better. Something that can be easily stencilled or drawn, rubber stamped, etc.

[xultar]

97. I agree, you wanna start a seperate thread on that referencing this one

That way we can get the message and standards down.

X

[nostamj]

85. if I understand...

you want something simple, something that does NOT telegraph it's meaning (ie. SCREW BUSH!) but rather is an identifier/signal.

so here's a little something:



it can mean "standing together"
it can mean "I'm plugged in(to the movement"

and, if you don't want to explain, you say" "it's a button! get it?, a 'button' button"

[MGKrebs]

87. I kinda like that.

"Two", meaning "more than one", or therefore "community".

[chaska]

89. Hey cool, Eleven. They're a great band.

...That's their logo.

[nostamj]

90. never heard of them!

(i'm WAY old) <nevermind>

[xultar]

94. I like Plugged in & Standing together. SWEET!!!! The wingnuts will never

figure that out.

[foo_bar]

190. according to the hobo semiotic site, it means "the sky's the limit"

I like it. It also connotes parallelity, equality, or three in binary.

http://www.slackaction.com/signroll.htm

[cags]

86. Heres a few more,

The first one is part of my personal logo, so it can't be used but I can do a variation of it.

The last one PST stands for Peace, Strength, Tolerance

The others are just simple shapes

[chaska]

91. Just throwing things on the heap here...

Here's a hobo signs site: http://www.slackaction.com/signroll.htm.

I kind of like the 'hit the road/get out fast' symbol (a circle with two arrows through it). The sign for 'good road' is nice too (circle with a slash). We could make either of those messages work for us.

I think it would be great if we could do a design that would look good as a jesus fish type of thing, you know, make them out of cast plastic.

I'm going to go check into hex symbols (those things they paint on barns) now.

[xultar]

93. I love the one for religion talk will get you a meal...we may need that

if * keeps effin with the economy.

[chaska]

100. I like the one for a kind woman lives here...

Other sites had that as a good woman.

...but it's a kitty cat. Whatever could they have been thinking??? ;-)

[Mist]

143. The "eleven" symbol shows up again in the hobo signs

It means "the sky's the limit." I like that!

[xultar]

98. I have a submission by Taxloss...It's kewl... I like how the star is used

[devilgrrl]

101. How about this Afrocentric Dixie battle flag?

I've often felt that Black people should steal the identity of the Dixie flag (don't know the proper title) and make it their own, strip it of it's blatant racism and give it a new meaning... but that's just me.

I based the color scheme on the Jamaican flag and some of the flags of Africa which contain green, black and gold.

Jamaica

Mozambique

Zimbabwe

[chaska]

102. Ha!!! That's funny. I love it! But that's another issue.

[Blue_Tires]

107. the dixie flag is nice

but you need some red in there (standard african colors: red, black, green)

[xultar]

112. I love that Afro-Confederate flag. The racists have vacated their

confederate flag in favor of the SC state flag.

[jimshoes]

106. This is one that

I was working on for my band. Just an abstract idea.

[juliagoolia]

108. SPIRALS are progressive by nature! Just an idea for someone that

Is actually an Artisit




picturewallawalla.com/graphics/photos/MBA007-02.jpg for credit purposes.. just used the image for an idea.

IDEA

Someone that is artistic and capable with graphics

A SPIRAL is by nature progressive. Could we have a symbol of red white and blue with a symbol of hope and humanity .. perhaps a human body silhoute holding out a red white and blue spiral that has light shining from it?


This can be done from different perspectives. Side view showing the progression??? dunno.. just an idea

[jimshoes]

109. Here's an idea

I don't have time to work on it right now but I'm thinking of an hourglass shape like on a black widow except orange colored. Real easy to make just two triangles with their points overlapping a bit. It incorporates the concept of time and also invokes an image of something dangerous to mess with.

[xultar]

114. That's kinda kewl and I like it cuz the whole ribbon thing is used up n/t

[jimshoes]

142. A quick sample

[juliagoolia]

110. Blue Progressive

Spiral Blue and progressive With some Green thrown in to boot!

[juliagoolia]

141. Simple Blue Spiral Left Blue Open Progressive

I Like Blue on Blue.

We are BLUE correct? Spirals are progressive. They should always end up opening to the LEFT..In other words Counter Cockwise..
A symbol of revolution and liberation would never spin to the right

Spin LEFT Always.
BE Open
BE Progressive
BE Blue

[CJCRANE]

111. The Stars & Rainbow Stripes flag

is a nice one. It's similar to the normal flag, except it has a stripe for each colour of the rainbow instead of red and white stripes. Someone posted it on DU a few months ago I think (but didn't give it a name so might be hard to search for, however would be quite easy to reproduce).

[Northwind]

115. Blue America

A star (American flag symbol) azure (blue states, progressive/liberal), on a field sable (mourning, power), surrounded by a charge, azure (progressive/liberal united).

[chaska]

123. That's not bad.

I love how strong and simple it is. It may be a bit militaristic though. Black and blue has its own associations, the freeps will say black and blue is what they did or will do to us.

[xultar]

126. I like this...simple, subtle...but the point is clear forthose who know...

Nize....thanks

[foo_bar]

193. actually it isn't so clear

It resembles a US Air Force logo, or this:

[Tinoire]

149. I like that... here's my impertinent variation...

but it seems to be missing just a little something... not sure what...

So Nightrain, I spent the last hour playing with it in in PowerPoint of all the ridiculous programs to use (but no choice there) and ended up with this which I'm just tossing at you because I'm not an artist.

I really like your circle but the star seems too militant in my humble marketing opinion because I think if we want this to spread, the same way the peace sign spread all over the place, we need something that will appeal to both ladies in their mundane offices and street activists, something also between the masculine and the feminine, something kids will be attracted to and that everyone can doodle anywhere (spray paint)

So I was just thinking and playing off of your idea and came up with this. Don't laugh ok? I'll be hurt!;)

It's not right because I don't have the right tools but I wonder if a softer blue wouldn't be more appealing to normal people. The "helix" arrows are supposed to symbolize going from right to left.

I wanted to contain the right arrow in the circle and extend the left arrow OUT of the confining mind prison of the circle but couldn't manage with PowerPoint.

Busting out of the right-wing prison. You get the idea. And I really hope you don't mind me playing with it!



On edit: I would like to remove the upper right arrow head because upon further thought, the right should't be shown as able to go anywhere- rather as something that needs to be contained as the Left goes off in the opposite direction.

[DeepGreen]

162. Really nice !!!!!

:)

[Northwind]

164. Nighttrain?

And by ladies in their mundane offices, you mean all those ladies in their mundane offices with the "Support Our Troops" ribbon on their car?

My symbol was semi-military very much on purpose. It implies unity and strength. Like it or not, a pseudo-military symbol is going to go a hell of a lot further than a peace sign or some sort of overly-weighted hieroglyph.

Think of this thing like an insignia or a badge. It is saying "There's a new sheriff in town" and implies moral authority.

[Tinoire]

178. Whoops- make that Northwind!

My apologies for confusing you with Nighttrain.

[manic expression]

122. Here's one idea...

Have a flag divided into quarters. On the top-left corner, blue; bottom-left corner, red; top-right corner, white; bottom-right corner, red. The left part of the flag is the flag of Haiti, which represents the overthrowing of tyrannical systems (slave rebellion) and the plight of the poor. The right part of the flag is the flag of Poland, which represents rebellion against wrong (Warsaw uprising). You can put any symbol in the center or anywhere else to your liking.

--------------
| Blue| White|
|-----|------|
| Red | Red |
|-----|------|

[alfredo]

135. How about blue scarves or kerchiefs?

Can you imagine a sea of waving blue?

Rit dye Periwinkle blue #46

[Straight Shooter]

137. I like the spiral image best.

From the center of our being, we radiate our energy and our force outward. It is a simple design to draw, very easy to create in jewelry, also, which is nice.

Simple and fast for graffiti purposes, to spray paint on a shirt to wear, to sew sequins onto a jacket. It can be colored as a rainbow for the GLBT progressives.

It is also an ancient symbol which resonates in nature and within the human heart and mind. If we were to adopt the spiral, the fundies would be so jealous they'd s**t. And I don't mean spit.

A peaceful and yet energetic design, suggesting motion and progress, and very appealing to the eye. As the cross represents Christianity, so will the spiral represent humanity and its connection to all that is beyond us. Also, the spiral has free space within its lines, indicating the need the human spirit has for freedom.

My intuition tells me the spiral is THE symbol.

[xultar]

139. I like the spiral idea as well. It is subtle, new, and different.

I love the simplicity and grafiti angle. What colours were you thinking. Blue & White or Blue & Orange. I like it.

I'm going to add it to my list for the final poll post.

[foo_bar]

192. no, no, no

Spirals represent entropy, vertigo, and hypnosis. Per They Might Be Giants:

In darkness you make out a spiralling shape
Putting all reason aside you exchange
What you got for a thing that's hypnotic and strange
The spiralling shape will make you go insane
(Everyone wants to see that groovy thing)
But everyone wants to see that groovy thing
(Everyone wants to see that thing)
And nobody knows what it's really like
But everyone says it's great
And they heard it from the spiral in their eyes
This could lead to excellence
Or serious injury
Only one way to know
Go, go, go
Go ahead, wreck your life
That might be good
...

[Solon]

140. I have a template of either a lapel pin or other use....

It has no colors, and I do not view it as complete, but I was messing around with GIMP and thought this could be good. Inspired by the french resistance shield, though not exclusive, if anyone else wants to modify it to their heart's content, go ahead, I thought it was cool, but I'm no graphic artist by any means.

Here's the graphic:

[Northwind]

147. Some thoughts...

Let's discuss for a moment the nature of symbols. What I am seeing in this thread is a lot of confusion regrading the nature iof symbols. A symbol is not the same thing as an icon. A symbol is not in itself descriptive of that for which it stands. Moreover, the best, most enduring symbols are very simple. More than 3 individual visual elements and colors and it simply does not work. To use an axiom, "less is more."

Consider 2 things.

First, everyone's favorite. The swastika. The swastika originally had nothing to do with Nazism or german nationalist movements. It is a very ancient symbol, found in a few variatons in several cultures (http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/15/151.html>click here for reference). When the Nazis were developing a symbol for the party and their movement, they did not sit around with someone saying, "oh, we need a picture of a blonde blue-eyed guy to make sure people know what we are!" They used a symbol with some fairly vague cultural meanings of strength, and made it mean what it came to mean. It became a glyph that stood for what they believed in. So much so that its original meaning (which had no connotations of nationalism or brutality at all) is lost to most of the planet. They did not try to make a minimalist illustration of their party manifesto. Rather, they took a symbol that looks good on a flag and makes a snappy lapel pin or armband and made it their own. Symbol first, meaning later.

Second, more contemporary. The Nabisco "thing". You know, this thing:



Even without the name in the middle, everyone knows what this means. It means Nabisco. Now what about that thing has anything to do wit crackers or cookies? Nothing. But when you look at it, you think Nabisco junk food. Oreos. Nilla Wafers. Ritz Crackers. Chips Ahoy. And so on. When making this logo, did they do an illustration of cookies or crackers, or even someone eating? No, they made this "thing." Incidentally, it is actually identified as "The Thing" in internal corporate marketing literature. Again, the lesson is, symbol first, meaning later.

A good symbol will catch the eye. A really good one will catch the eye and be just interesting enough to make the observer ask what it means. If you do it right, eventually no one has to ask what it means anymore, because "everyone knows that."

Most of then ideas being presented here suffer from an effort to include too much information. We need to stop thinking in such concrete terms. This should not be some insider hieroglyph or visual manifesto, but simply a symbol that identifies this one group of people, something that can be stuck on a bumper or worn on a tshirt.

The only other consideration is the audience. Remember who you are playing to. Think of what emotions can be stirred in the use of color and symbolism. Do not make an out and out effort to piss anyone off. To do so is pointless. This is an identifier, not a statement in and of itself.

A note on color. This is American politics. It must include either red, blue, or both. Red I avoided because (ironically) of dual communist/red state connections. Using the colors of other nations will make people immedately dismiss you in this country, as will failing to use the colors of this nation. Attempting to take a treasured symbol already used by one group (such as confederate battle flags) will do the same.

Flame away.

My own contribution (also posted above):

[Tinoire]

152. Nothing to flame there. All important points. As they say

KISS (keep it simple stupid) ;)

The only thing I'd add is that it has to easily be able to transfer to a Black/White version.

[Paulie]

154. I like this version of the paragraph symbol

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/50/507.html

Or for frequency: http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/35/351.html

Simple

This one is funny, since it means "symbol has been found" LOL http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/24/2413.html

[Tinoire]

157. I like the para symbol!

As a biological sign it can mean a typical specimen of a species.



A modern ideogram for frequency, a combination of the sign for a complete wave or oscillation, , and a straight line


And I know this sounds weird but I LIKE this one



The ideogram is a combination of for see, and for one entity or something definite or absolute, placed within the circle of unlimited possibilities. Note that here is combined with in such a way that it becomes , the exclamation mark, meaning that's it, thus denoting that the seeing is finished, that the search is over.

Lots of symbolism in that one. Very easy to reproduce. I like those!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

156. s/b easy to draw by hand like a peace sign so that 'word of hand' spreads.

The peace sign is the model to emulate, easy to give by hand in greeting on the street and easy to draw on the school chalk board.

The peace sign was intentionally replaced with the consumerist ditzy 'smiley face' to get people settle down and back to the citizen's main task-driving around buying things from corporations.

How 'bout the 'smiley sign' with the universal red-circle-slash 'NOT' to show that we don't buy the happy-news-freedom-on-the-march-propaganda-CRAP.

Or to deny Dan Quayle's assessment upon visiting Samoa, "no we're not gawdamn happy campers-we are pissed off voters!"

Some dynamic outrage is called for along the lines of the Black Panther's upraised fist of resistance to abusive authority.

[Tinoire]

159. I love the black panther symbol/rage

but I think too much outrage in a symbol would turn off ordinary people who aren't quite as enraged as we are... you know, the crowd that was "went along" with the revolution in the 60s without really believing in it but still they supported it which helped make everyone feel empowered and the government feel a bit well, not very popular.

How 'bout the 'smiley sign' with the universal red-circle-slash 'NOT' to show that we don't buy the happy-news-freedom-on-the-march-propaganda-CRAP.

Certainly simple and sends a message!

[chaska]

153. Good point, Tinoire.

I can't find a darn thing to get worked up about in your post, NW. I appreciate what you're saying, and I like your design. I'm glad to see someone step forward who knows something about this sort of thing. I've worked in the sign business so I know a little of some of the concepts involved, but not enough for something like this. This is a pretty specialized area.

I think it's really good. I wish you would do another one or two or dozen. Just to keep me entertained, if nothing else.

[found object]

155. haw about a giant middle finger dipped in crude oil.

I'm absolutely serious. Send the tee-shirt to all who support the war.

[juliagoolia]

158. Spiral with Peace Sign

Help Graphic Artists, I am obviously not one of you. This was done with Paint and a lot of patience. The circles and lines are not as good as they should be of course but someone with some skills in a Graphic program could do something with this idea.

[Tinoire]

160. Very interesting idea... I'd like to see what someone with the right tool

could do too because I can almost imagine it in my head and I think putting the peace sign in there without making it front and center isn't a bad thing.

Good job!

[xultar]

165. I dig it too. It appears that people are catching on to the spiral thing!

WOW!!! I wonder how we could work some orange in there also.

[Tinoire]

191. I think Orange is the perfect color. Evokes spring-time

It evokes spring-time, a time for change; yellow is a little too in your face and pink is too girlish.

[Northwind]

163. Too busy, too much going on.

You have to simplify.

Right away, the pease sign is out. Too tied to a divisive time in our countries history. Not a good thing to invoke.

And spirals are not a real good idea either. In psychological tests, a large percentage of the people are actually made vaguely uncomfortable or uneasy when looking at spiral forms. Sorry, I do not have a refernce for that, I read it in an aricle some time ago.

[Swamp Rat]

168. I completely disagree - The peace sign is 'IN'!

It is always 'in'.

The peace sign helped bring a divided nation, as we are right now, back together.

[Tinoire]

179. Love the peace sign... My first thought was of a peace sign

over the world- both equally as prominent- one fused into the other with the peace sign translucent enough for the world to show through- then I realized that wouldn't be easy enough for the average person to reproduce by hand...

Personal opinion is that the peace sign in this day and age isn't enough because this is not the time of peace, love, love-ins, mind expanding acid trips in the park, etc... would need to be changed a little... maybe a peace sign rotated about 315 degrees? Regardless, I dig your signs!

[Northwind]

167. How the Blue Star concept might look on a tshirt

Just havin' fun on my cafe press account. :D

[chaska]

172. Hey NW, my two cents...

Make it half again as big - why'd you narrow the circle? It looks better with the wide band. Blue on a black T would look awesome. I guess cafepress don't do black T????

This design could really take off. It looks sort of Dr. Seuss which means that everybody will want one. It's hip.

[Northwind]

173. No black tees at cafe press

A source of constant frustration, I might add. I tries it larger, but I liked it better a bit understated. I did not make the outer band smaller. The cafe press engine that slaps the graphics on the tees for the web site pics is is not entirely accurate.

An additional note on the graphic size. Multiple version could be created to individual taste.

This symbol would also make a hell of a lapel pin, cufflink or button.

[chaska]

175. Yes, it would make a great pin, button, etc. Part of why I like it.

I still have concerns though. Dont' get defensive, now, but I still wonder about military association. And one thing from my signage days: blue, especially on black is hard to see/read. Just so you're aware. The simplicity of the design deals effectively enough with that though.

[Straight Shooter]

186. Sorry, this evokes "You can trust your car to the man who wears the star"

It looks too much like the Texaco star to me, a corporate symbol, but in blue instead of red.

As for the spiral, I'll stick with my initial impression of it. I think people respond positively to it. I think they might feel uncomfortable with a concentric circle, though.

[Cronus Protagonist]

188. Makes me think of Mercedes Benz...

Or Israel - which is not a good thing. And the blue lacks contrast with the black... having said that, the commentary that goes along with it is right on the money.

:)





http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[FizzFuzz]

170. I'd like to see a white spiral within a blue star

I like the ancient spiral symbol. It's the most ancient symbol of all, I think, maybe after the simple circle. White contains all colors within it, and symbolizes purity, energy, newness...hmm the new within the ancient; interesting.

The star--I agree with Northwind's thought about power in the symbol. Interesting melding too, now I think about it a spiral within a star--spiral ancient feminine symbol, also Universal and eternal. Star, a masculine action energy. Within a blue circle? Needs a frame, for a sense of visual containment.

Just some thoughts.

:hi: hi and Happy New Year everyone

[starroute]

171. I'm coming around to the spiral idea too

I like that it's open-ended. Whatever spiral you may draw is never the entire spiral. Every spiral theoretically extends to infinity.

I like that it's asymmetrical.

I like that it's found in nature (unlike anything with straight lines and corners.)

I like that it's simple enough for anyone to draw freehand but also lends itself to highly precise and elaborated versions.

I like that is has no predefinited symbolic meanings, especially meanings that are already associated with church or state/authority.

I like that it's enigmatic.

I like that it's a single line, which makes it easy to do as jewelry, carvings, or sculpture.

I like that it can also be seen as a pathway and that it has a visual association with the Yellow Brick Road and its message of infinite possibility. Like the hobo "this road is better" sign but more so.

[housewolf]

189. I really like the spiral concept

It's natural (

It's ever-expanding.

Ii't siimple.

It's powerful.


I've been lurking this thread for a couple days - you guys are great! So creative....

Thought I'd offer this idea I'm not an artist and I can't put this together but maybe one of you can - what about this spiral
http://www.arches.uga.edu/~iluvkids/Goldenspiral.html

made up of these stars


in some sort of frame?

[chaska]

174. A few thoughts.

I agree that peace symbols are out. Too many previous associations. It muddies the message. We don't disown the sixties, but that's not who we are now. We want to be the new lean and mean, hardbitten, take no shit Democratic party. Peace is part of the message but not the only one. When people see the peace symbol you are automatically pigeonholed. We want people to wonder what this new thing is about. We don't need to be instantly negated. And we are not about the sixties, we are the party of FDR, JFK, MLK, and Paul Wellstone. Like it or not, the peace symbol is associated with Hippie culture. That's not a winning message for us.

I don't hate the spiral thing, but I think we can do better. It can be hand drawn, but it doesn't look good hand drawn. Stencils could be difficult. But mostly, I agree that it's visually disorienting. I associate it with the Twilight Zone.

And I wonder about what message it sends. It sends information from a central source outward. That's a good association for the Republicans - central authority and all that. We are more about circles: Community, diversity, commonality.

I once had history (in a Hegelian philosophy lecture) explained in terms of a spiral. History moves not in a circle - history never repeats itself exactly - but in a spiral. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis - which implies an embrace of ideas both from the left and right.

In any case, we're not there yet. Keep 'em coming.

[xultar]

176. I'd like to pick your brain on next steps. I'm going to start by posting

another thread with the standards offered by another DUer some where in this tangle. I will also post the samples given so far.
What else do you think needs to be done.

[alfredo]

177. Consult the iChing

Revolution means riddance. The reason for riddance is obsolescence.
From "The Taoist I Ching."


Of course this may be seen as a threat by those who want it to be a threat. I see it as a call for peaceful change.

[haele]

181. Here's one I came up with a while back -

Playing with "PaintBox".


The Quill symbolizes - oh, freedom of expression in all it's forms and colors; the Sun and Peace sign for enlightnment and peace respectively, the ink that created "We the People" symbolizes progress within America.

Feel Free to use or modify.

Haele

[chaska]

185. Hey Haele, I think I can spare another two cents.

That's really nice, but what about doing something with your avatar? That is really good from a "message" standpoint. It communicates really well the ideas of community and diversity and interconnectedness. Maybe try it on a blue shield - though I'm actually a little wary of the shield. How about one without a shield ... maybe make the circle bolder (fatter).

I really like it. Needs tweaking though. I guess I should ask if that's your original work or not, huh?

[jonnyo]

187. How's something like this? Simple, direct, catchy....

and only offensive to your typical, right wing, nazi assed, America-hating, freak, neo-con. What are they gonna do? Start bashing the Statue of Liberty or Democracy by the People? Maybe claim it as their own? Fat chance. They don't represent the People even with all their fake assed squealing about the imaginary power of red state America. It's already been PROVEN that the right wing, neo-con Evango Freaks DON'T represent MAINSTREAM values of REAL Americans.

<><>

[foo_bar]

195. OMG!

[Carolab]

194. "New Glory"

the flag with the 13 original colonies on the blue background, and green stripes only. No red.