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KlatooBNikto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 06:46 AM
Original message
The Democratic Party collborates in the perpetuation of myths.
This is why it has become ineffective because it has opened itself to political blackmail by the Republicns. By not standing up for our principles when it mattered, it has sidelined itself.Now even its own base distrusts the Party.

When it mattered, the Party did not stand up and call for a complete, thorough and impartial investigation of 9/11.

When it mattered, the Party did not stand up to the bullies of the GOP on the Iraq War Resolution.

When it mattered, the party did not stand up for ordinary Americans against the tex cuts for the rich.

When it mattered, the Party did not call for an investigation of the disenfranchisment of voters ( especially minorities ) in Florida or Ohio or for that matter in numerous states in 200, 2002 and now 2004.

It is now caving in to the GOP on an issue like Social Security abandoning its solemn commitments to the elderly.If it allows privatization fo Social Security to proceed, they are done.They will no longer be the Party I can support.

A Party that has essentially become a willing accomplice of the GOP in its numerous crimes has forfeited the right to expect our vote.

This goes for the DNC and more for the trojan horses of the DLC.

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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well put n/t
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. It appears to me that we don't have two parties anymore.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. And what are the people going to do about it?
I know that I am going to try to get more involved, maybe have a little say in where the party goes.
What I do know, If we totally abandon the Democratic Party then the repukes will run over this country like a steam roller and there will never be no political opposition left in this country.
I fear the lesser parties just do not have the strength to assume the opposition role.
I am going to try and make a difference and I urge each and everyone of you here to do the same.
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KlatooBNikto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The first thing we need to do is not be afraid.That was the wisdom that
was handed down to us by the greatest Democrat in our history, FDR. Yet here we are trembling like leaves at the lies spewed out by little tinhorns like Rus, Hannity, Cheney and others. When we stand by our principles, even when we lose, our base knows it can rely on our leaders and will do its best to turn out and be energized.
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Jon8503 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, Yes, Yes, right on. No matter what they did yesterday, it is
still time for new leadership in the Democratic party. These Democratic leaders are either owned by lobbyists themselves, weak-kneed or whatever. We need new leaders, a new direction, we need to know what we stand for which used to be to stand up for those who were unable to fight for themselves.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. They do not deserve our vote
And you are right, I do not trust them. Perhaps if they would do something to, I don't know, say EARN my trust? How long do they think they can continue to just give us occasional scraps of decent government? A truly shameful time for both parties in America.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. I agree
except saying it is "now caving in to the GOP", that is exactly what they did the first four years of this * administration

Because of what the democrats have become, I am considering not wasting my time even voting again. It just doesn't matter.

When it did matter in 2000 or going into Iraq, or the medicare drug plan, or even the 385 billion dollar budget, the democrats in congress were not there. Well, I just might not be there for them in 2006 or 2008

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. Time for a real change in this country, time to go Green
Yeah, yeah, I know the mantra, the Greens are too small to make a difference. But at the rate with which the Dems are pissing off their base and driving them away, the Greens could very well become the next big thing, especially if we put our muscle, money and will behind it.

Besides, I think that the Greens values and platform are much more represenative of our values, I know that they're certainly more represenative of mine. Besides, they don't fall into the trap the the Democrats tumbled into long ago, they don't take corporate cash, which is what has caused the Dems to sell out long ago.

The Democratic party is hopelessly corrupted, and has been for a long while. This last election, their actions since the beginning of the Bush residency simply confirm that. It is time for the Democratic party to follow the Whigs onto the trashheap of history, and let a party that is truly of the people by the people and for the people take it's place.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. You are probably correct
I will also vote Green if the Dem party does not undergo drastic change. True change may take time, but there WILL be change. We can not continue to go down the road we are currently on. Green Party may be the only way to achieve real change.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I believe that Greens have been the way to go for a long time
The Democrats have sold out to their corporate masters long ago. Clinton was a prime example of this sell out, with his corporate giveaway vis-a-vis NAFTA and the '96 Telecom Act, among other things. Virtually all of their actions since then has done nothing but confirm this sell out, NCLB, the Iraq War vote, the Patriot Act, the list is long, long. Yes, there are still a few good people in the Democratic Party, but their hands are tied by the quisling leadership, and thus are rendered ineffective.

Yes, going with the Greens will take both time and money to bring about change, building anything from the foundation up does. But the good news is that with the Greens real change will occur, unlike with the Dems where all we can expect is faux change at the best, and are much more likely to recieve a stab in the back instead.
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princehal Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Frankly
I will NEVER vote Green.

I blame them and Nader for the mess we are in.

Flame away!
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Nice try - not worth flaming. Greens and Nader tried to save us.
From ourselves. Read what the Greens and Nader believe in and decide for yourself if you like what they say. We are beyond political "games" at this point. How silly. The only thing that stops people from voting Green or for Nader are 1. Personal lack of knowledge of what Greens and Nader believe and 2. The fact that the Democrats are the only electable alternative to the Republicans. To never even consider what the Greens and Nader represent allows the Democratic Party to make your decisions for you. Unless of course, you are a Republican.
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princehal Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. >he only thing that stops people from voting Green or for Nader are
So, if the Greens are so good, why can't they communicate their message?

Honestly, and in fairness -- I am on the side of the greens. But Nader's refusal to pull out of Floridia in 2000 has shown me that he was only interested in power -- not in our country.

We reap what he sowed.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Ten Values of Greens...read and remember...
Ten Key Values of the Green Party



The Green Party Platform


As ratified at the Green Party Convention in Denver, CO, June 2000.

1. GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY
Every human being deserves a say in the decisions that affect their lives and not be subject to the will of another. Therefore, we will work to increase public participation at every level of government and to ensure that our public representatives are fully accountable to the people who elect them. We will also work to create new types of political organizations which expand the process of participatory democracy by directly including citizens in the decision-making process.

2. SOCIAL JUSTICE AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY
All persons should have the rights and opportunity to benefit equally from the resources afforded us by society and the environment. We must consciously confront in ourselves, our organizations, and society at large, barriers such as racism and class oppression, sexism and homophobia, ageism and disability, which act to deny fair treatment and equal justice under the law.

3. ECOLOGICAL WISDOM
Human societies must operate with the understanding that we are part of nature, not separate from nature. We must maintain an ecological balance and live within the ecological and resource limits of our communities and our planet. We support a sustainable society which utilizes resources in such a way that future generations will benefit and not suffer from the practices of our generation. To this end we must practice agriculture which replenishes the soil; move to an energy efficient economy; and live in ways that respect the integrity of natural systems.

4. NON-VIOLENCE
It is essential that we develop effective alternatives to society’s current patterns of violence. We will work to demilitarize, and eliminate weapons of mass destruction, without being naive about the intentions of other governments. We recognize the need for self-defense and the defense of others who are in helpless situations. We promote non-violent methods to oppose practices and policies with which we disagree, and will guide our actions toward lasting personal, community and global peace.

5. DECENTRALIZATION
Centralization of wealth and power contributes to social and economic injustice, environmental destruction, and militarization. Therefore, we support a restructuring of social, political and economic institutions away from a system which is controlled by and mostly benefits the powerful few, to a democratic, less bureaucratic system. Decision-making should, as much as possible, remain at the individual and local level, while assuring that civil rights are protected for all citizens.

6. COMMUNITY-BASED ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE
We recognize it is essential to create a vibrant and sustainable economic system, one that can create jobs and provide a decent standard of living for all people while maintaining a healthy ecological balance. A successful economic system will offer meaningful work with dignity, while paying a “living wage” which reflects the real value of a person’s work.

Local communities must look to economic development that assures protection of the environment and workers’ rights; broad citizen participation in planning; and enhancement of our “quality of life.” We support independently owned and operated companies which are socially responsible, as well as co-operatives and public enterprises that distribute resources and control to more people through democratic participation.

7. FEMINISM AND GENDER EQUITY
We have inherited a social system based on male domination of politics and economics. We call for the replacement of the cultural ethics of domination and control with more cooperative ways of interacting that respect differences of opinion and gender. Human values such as equity between the sexes, interpersonal responsibility, and honesty must be developed with moral conscience. We should remember that the process that determines our decisions and actions is just as important as achieving the outcome we want.

8. RESPECT FOR DIVERSITY
We believe it is important to value cultural, ethnic, racial, sexual, religious and spiritual diversity, and to promote the development of respectful relationships across these lines.

We believe that the many diverse elements of society should be reflected in our organizations and decision-making bodies, and we support the leadership of people who have been traditionally closed out of leadership roles. We acknowledge and encourage respect for other life forms than our own and the preservation of biodiversity.

9. PERSONAL AND GLOBAL RESPONSIBILITY
We encourage individuals to act to improve their personal well-being and, at the same time, to enhance ecological balance and social harmony. We seek to join with people and organizations around the world to foster peace, economic justice, and the health of the planet.

10. FUTURE FOCUS AND SUSTAINABILITY
Our actions and policies should be motivated by long-term goals. We seek to protect valuable natural resources, safely disposing of or “unmaking” all waste we create, while developing a sustainable economics that does not depend on continual expansion for survival. We must counterbalance the drive for short-term profits by assuring that economic development, new technologies, and fiscal policies are responsible to future generations who will inherit the results of our actions.

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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. You have a point... In Minnesota, during the governor's race,
Ken Pentel had enough money to make 2 TV ads. I saw both ads. They made more of a mockery of the Green party than they tried making a mature stand against the futility of the two one-party system.

And see my other message but Nader not pulling out. You're ignoring so many other issues about Selection 2000 that it makes me sick.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Nader WAS a fraud (DU pointed out what a hypocrite he is), BUT...
the Green party is still the only party these days I have any respect for. And even then, I'm not happy with them as they endorsed McGaa in 2002. I hated Wellstone for violating his promise (he could have found someone like him instead of freely giving the repukes free ammo), but McGaa - in terms of environmental policies - was not Green by any measure. I had to vote Wellstone, and let me tell you that hurt because he was more than happy to support the DOMA.
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mazzarro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. In hind sight that is pure BS!
Edited on Fri Jan-07-05 07:40 AM by mazzarro
Democratic party has been selling itself off to the corporate interests for much longer than that. If the 2000 election had gone in Gore's favor it would only have masked the damage the Clinton/DLC/DNC group has been doing to the party.
As for myself, I will continue to be involved in progressive causes, supporting and voting for individual progressive/liberal candidates with backbone but will henceforth work/vote for the Green party on national issues and elections. Damn the democratic party!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. walking past the grave yard singing "lalalalalalalala"
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Why stay?
Because the majority of DU'rs are more "green" than "BLue"....


And their is no reason why the DEMs sould not form coalition with the Greens in the future when they finally start acting like Democrats.

The reason to stay and promote Green values is because that is the only way our shared values will be adopted by the DEMS....not until they are hopless miserable valueless losers....just like WE are now. Yes I am DEM...I came over to defeat W. Now after seeing the candidate that many of us never wanted in the first place roll over and let another election be stolen by the GOP it is time to recognize that this party no longer cares about real progressive values.

Thus it is time for us to GET SPINE and let America rot in sea of conservative filth until America wakes up.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Funny, that. DU welcomes ALL progressives.
Or so I thought.

And with your attitude, I'd be embarrassed to be here.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. Frankly
I blame people for blindly using Nader as a scapegoat instead of looking at everything that transpired during Selection 2000.

Witness:

* The use of Monica by the repukes (and Clinton, too)
* Al Gore's campaign - his speeches must've been written made in an outhouse.
* The machinations of Jeb Bush hand Katherine Harris in Florida to find every conceivable way to discount votes; including those from people whose votes should have counted. And trick people not to vote on the right day...
* The Supreme Court - which voted on PARTISAN LINES RATHER THAN TAKING ALL EVIDENCE INTO COUNT - NAMELY, THE POPULAR VOTE which was clearly in Gore's favor.

Nader was an element, but I am so fucking angry at the people who place all of the blame on Nader without looking at the entire picture.

---

Did Nader set up Monica's first date with Bill?

Did Nader tell Gore how to run his campaign?

Did Nader instruct Harris and Bush as to how to whittle away legit votes?

Is Nader very chummy with the 4 relevant members of the Supreme Court?

If you can prove that Nader was there for ALL of it, I'll take back my comments. Until then, stop with the scapegoating shit.


(per the first paragraph, I lamely tried to make it a generalized scapegoating message too. I also refrained from making this anything remotely like a personal attack, though frankly I'll admit it would have been very easy to do. Especially when you yourself openly invited it with "Flame away!")
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. This sentiment is being repeted across several threads....
It really is...

I've been to a few green party meetings in the past and was turned off by them because they were filled with really wacky people....then i realized sometime ago...I was pretty wacky myself. Then I realized I wasn't wacky at all...neither were the greens.

In fact I shared the same values of nonviolence, equality, social justice, environmental protection, sustainability and a look to making he future a better place for my child and future generations.


The GOP and DEMS are leaving behind a legacy that offer nothing but bigger problems for our children. They are takers, not creators...

I think the reason to why DU is getting attacked is because the right realizes that the progressives are going to leave the Dems. When they happens they will lose controll and will be forced to deal with a new adversary that has the power of VALUES...values that cannot be shaken, broken or torn down by lies.

So they come here and call us kooks, communist and anti-american....

The truth is we are anti-america. Anti the way America is now. Anti corpratism, anti war, anti pollution, anti poverty.

What is America now....but a polluting, warring, poverty and misery generator. We mihgt not be on the recieving end directly but we feel the bombs, the starvation that so many feel in the world as a result of our comfort and greed. it makes me ill.

That is why I choose to not consume the foul parts of American culture.

No TV, No commmercial radio. No junk food, no vain consuming. I choose to live with only what is needed to create music, art and joy.

Even if I was homeless I would still wish to make something of beauty. Rather than destroy.

The current Democratic leaders are part of the problem and they aren't changing anytime soon.

THis board has seen the moderate DEMs dissolve into the mainstream again. They will drive the SUV to the store and buy bags of chips and frozen atkins diet meals and talk about howthe liberals are ruining america and taking God away from the rest of America. They are singing the tunes the GOP wrote.

Let them rot along with the other fascists.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Hear, Hear! Nice post, and you're correct friend.
A lot of people are waking up and realizing that the Dems no longer represent them, or their values. Yes, going Green is scary, for there is a stigma artifically attached to it. But if you don't buy the BS and truly look at the Greens, you find out that you're much more aligned with them, and their values than you are to the Dems. And the fact that they take no corporate cash makes them incorruptible by the corporate machine. And that is what truly scares the powers that be.

A toast:toast: to all of us wacky people who are waking up and starting to fight for a real change in this country!
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. If they can get rid of Nader, maybe.
sorry, but that's my opinion. I love the platform, but Nader is not the leader the movement needs.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. They already did. Nader ran for something called 'better life party'
He wasn't Green in 2004.

He was Reform until they kicked him out.

I don't know why Nader bothered; 2002 kinda suggested that the Green party was as done as toast.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Nader is no longer associated with the Greens friend
That match ended four years ago. This last election Nader ran as an independent, and the Greens ran Cobb. Funny thing though, it was Nader and Greens who were shouting about vote fraud in Ohio long before the Dems got involved, and while Kerry was still out on vacation.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. sorry, my bad.
a big home simpson "d'oh!" seems appropriate here.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Aw, that's OK, politics is sometimes confusing
So, does the fact that Nader is no longer Green effect your decision on whether or not to join the Greens?
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. yes, it makes it more attractive.
But I've been a lifelong dem, so I'll probably work both ends of the candle, hoping to support whichever green/democrat best suits my views.

I couldn't stand Nader politically after 2000, when the prudent thing would have been to concede and allow Gore his votes in the 11th hour of the campaign. Not doing so cost us.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. Green for progressives. Enough with the nose holding.
After 39 years as a Democrat, I've finally thrown in the towel. They have become nothing but window dressing for the illusion of democracy in this country.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
30. Yes. They are rich and they fully approve of Bush destroying the middle
class. We need to haul them ALL to the Hague for their crimes.
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'd favour a "tex cut". There's one particular Texan I have in mind.
But I agree with your points. The administration seems to be given such a free run over everything.
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KlatooBNikto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Talk of unintended humor!
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
33. Iraq
Trying to flex a more macho military muscle, with the election being all about Kerry's war service, and looking tough-- when it should've been about calling into question the morality and deception of the enterprise is more than a perpetration of a myth. It is bloody hands for those soldiers dying and killing for nothing.

But the Kerry who asked the hard questions after Viet Nam was perceived to be a liability, instead they tried to demonstrate that the Democrats were the true heros based on Republican imagery of war heros. Even in exposing the hypocrisy of chickenhawks they were still portraying themselves according to the Right's world view.
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KlatooBNikto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. That, unfortunately, is true. Even when the fraud has been exposed,
Kerry was criticizing Bush on the way the War was being conducted rather than the entire morality of the War itself.

Where are Sens Ernest Gruening and Wayne Morse?
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