Atheist sues to prevent prayer at Bush inauguration

[alexisfree]

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - An atheist who sued because he did not want his young daughter exposed to the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is now filing a suit to bar the saying of a prayer at President Bush's inauguration.

Michael Newdow, of Sacramento, notes that two ministers, the Reverend Franklin Graham and the Reverend Kirbyjon Caldwell, delivered Christian invocations at Bush's first inaugural ceremony in 2001.

The Inaugural '05 Web site says, "A minister chosen by the President will deliver an invocation" before Bush takes the oath of office Jan. 20.

Newdow, in a lawsuit in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, says that's unconstitutional and is seeking an expedited hearing of his case, which is tentatively scheduled Jan. 14.

It's not the first time Newdow has made such a court challenge. Last year, the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals tossed the same lawsuit. The appeals court said his lawsuit seeking to abolish clergy-led prayer at the inauguration was "futile." The court said Newdow did not suffer "a sufficiently concrete and specific injury."

more.......


---In a personal note: hope he makes IT!



http://www.fresnobee.com/state_wire/story/9711902p-10593166c.html

[unpossibles]

1. he won't care

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." - GWB

[alexisfree]

5. bizzare world !!!

[K-W]

9. That was Herbert Walker Bush, not George W. Bush

AFAIK W. hasnt been asked about athiesm.

[unblock]

10. no time to check right now, but i'm pretty sure that's bush senior's quote

[Az]

34. It was his father that said that

Not Shrub.

Go here to see some of the things shrub did say.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/scarstartframe.htm

[ck4829]

2. I'm not an Atheist, but I'm hoping Newdow wins

[itzamirakul]

3. He's spittin' in the wind...

the evan-angels will lynch his ass before they let him win.

[tx_dem41]

4. Now we can debate the Pledge case, but...

this is one he doesn't need to fight.

Plus, he is on much shakier legal ground on this one, IMO.

[vi5]

6. I'm an atheist but I wish this guy would pick his battles better...

I wish he would just link up with a church/state separation organization or an atheist organization and coordinate his efforts with them. Without doing so he seems like an individual crackpot jousting at windmills. There are many areas of church state separation that need to be addressed and could use some high profile suits to do so. The prayer at the inauguration doesn't seem to me to be one of the more important ones.

But more power to the guy.

[alexisfree]

7. I gree completed....

wtf has to do God with a * coronation....

[Buck_Fush]

43. He doesn't seem like a crackpot to me at all

he seems very intelligent and insightful, and yes, right. He has done a lot for us by being the one who calls it to the attention of the world that some of us don't like theocratic fascism. I personally am offended by the use of the bible in courtrooms to take oath, and hope somebody will rid us of that too. I would be just as impressed if given a box of dog biscuits to swear on as their silly bible.

[vi5]

65. Personally I agree with you 100%.....

And I'm not against this guy focusing his efforts on this issue. I just think that the way he goes about it is more flailing about at anything. There is so much "low hanging fruit" to be dealth with regarding the church state separation issue that for him to choose the issues he has strikes me as odd. And he would be a great spokesperson/advocate for a group such as Barry Lynne's Americans United for Separation of Church and State. But when he does this stuff on his own and chooses these things which (while I agree they are absurd and annoying), are nowhere near as egregious offenses as so many other things which he would quite probably have more success with if he were to bring suits.

[Telly Savalas]

56. Agreed. He should sue to prevent Bush's appearance at the inauguration!

Granted, he wouldn't have too much to stand on, but it'd make more entertaining political theater.

[blm]

8. This will make sure the public rallies AROUND Bush to "protect God"

As an atheist I resent the way this guy times his attacks.

Is he on Rove's payroll? Now the media will say that Bush protestors are antiGod, Newdow supporters.

[Piperay]

44. I agree

and I often wonder if these people are paid by the RWingers to do this stuff. x(

[Norquist Nemesis]

11. Is he going for his next 15 minutes or something?

Okay, before I get flamed, it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other really.

But, IMO, he's just adding fuel to the fire of the church/state debate. Hate radio will have their lines lit all the way from here to next Sunday on this topic.

We would be wise to simply distance ourselves on this and just state he has a right to his opinion. (period)

Now, if he wants to take on the issue of the President raising his right hand and placing his left on the Bible (versus maybe the Constitution), that might have merit on the church/state separation. Would an atheist be required to place his/her hand on the Bible to be sworn in?...hypothetically, of course. What if a Muslim were elected? hmmmmm

[OneTwentyoNine]

50. No flame here,I'm sick of seeing the guy on TV....

OK pal,we got your point a LONG time ago. Sit your ass down we get where your coming from.

This goes WAY beyond trying to "protect" his daughter,this is about him. Or...he could easily be a Rove plant,give him $100,000 per year and have him rave on about prayer on every station.

David

[comsymp]

12. Normally I'd agree with Newdow, but

in this case I'm all for prayer- and a lot of it. At the commencement of another 4 years of this Administration, we can use any/all the help we can get!

[sybylla]

14. Yeah, state sponsored prayer is just what we need right now

If blacks had waited to fight for their rights until the time was right they'd still be suffering under segregation and state-sponsored bigotry.

No time is the wrong time. Democrats are either on the side of civil rights or they are not. They either believe the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is something to fight for or not. Either way, People will continue to seek to be heard, seek to have redress, and seek to have standing in our society, with or without them.

[comsymp]

15. Assume you were replying to a different poster

since I wasn't endorsing any form of State-sponsored religion

My issue is that, facing another 4 years of this gang, we can use all the help we can get. Bring in the Shamans, Wizards, Druid/Wiccan Priest(esse)s, Voodoo Queens, Seers, and anybody else who may have a little influence with Whatever Powers May Be. Hand out horseshoes, rabbits' feet, 4-leaf clovers, whatever. Have the entire country cross their fingers, spit for luck, bury a dead cat at the crossroads at midnight. Anything, ANYTHING is worth a shot.

[alexisfree]

16. lol

Cleaning our body energy with brown egg takes the evil eye away…}(

[comsymp]

17. NOW you're talking!

brown eggs, chicken bone/bear claw fetishes, sagebrush spankings, coffee enemas for EVERYBODY!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Haha..ain't that the truth!

:hi:

[comsymp]

40. HAAAY, GRRRL!!!

:pals:

[LibertyLover]

13. Newdow

Lots of luck. I have to say all the Christian prayers at the beginning of an inauguration - and that's any presidential inauguration, not just *'s, annoys me. If a president wants to have a private prayer session in the WH prior to taking the oath fine, but the actual inauguration should be secular. And while we're at it, how about administering the oath as it appears in the Constitution?

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

No "so help me God" tacked on at the end. What I'd really like to see is the oath administered over the Constitution and not a Bible. Of course, if * wanted to be really Biblical, he should take the oath holding on to his, um, "package". Look us the derivation of "testify" sometime.

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. Didn't Jesus, in one of his little fireside chats, say that people

are not to swear on anything, even in god's name, as that was a form of idolatry?

Or did I just make that up?

[LibertyLover]

20. Swearing

Yeah, I think there is something in the Bible about that. If memory serves there are some religious groups (JWs, 7th Day Adventists?) who will not take oaths, which is why there is the wording in oaths, like for being sworn in as a witness in a court case, about "affirming".

[bunkerbuster1]

28. Mennonites, too (eom)

[bunkerbuster1]

27. Matthew 5:34 is pretty explicit.

"But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven for it is God's throne; nor by the earth for it is his footstool."

Then again there are tons of contradictions in the Good Book, this one's no different.

Have at it:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/oaths.html

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. Nice site.

I notice all the 'swear' references are OT, while the 'do not swear' are NT. And of course, the fundies seem to think that the NT is kind of like the amendments to the constitution -- interesting, but not part of the real thing.

(side note) first reading of the link address, I saw it saying skepticsareedible. Scared me for a second.

[bunkerbuster1]

38. I really enjoy this site. I particularly enjoy their relatively judgement-

free 'tude. They acknowledge there's a lot of "good stuff" in the Good Book, and if anything I feel my faith/belief system is reinforced by facing the very real issues and contradictions head-on, instead of weaseling around them as some religious folk are wont to do.

[alexisfree]

19. i think homeland security is going to pay him a visit soon

maybe the black op helicopters

[Behind the Aegis]

22. The only thing I like about the "inauguration"

When they have the preachers invoke the name of Jesus Christ, it pisses off my Jewish family members that voted for him! I love to revel in that. I just reminded them that they have voted a person into office who is at the beckon and call of a group that only want Jews around to bring the second coming. That usually pisses off my relatives. :)

[alexisfree]

24. that is great!!!

as for my freaking neighbor upstairs, he is so impossible to convince him otherwise, he loves * so much and he is an orthodox Jewish!! and hates Newdow for not believe in jesus!!:crazy:

[Radical Activist]

23. I wonder if this guy is really a conservative plant

His lawsuit became a rallying cry to conservatives. How many "under god" bumper stickers did you see? That case became the latest excuse to demagogue about how liberals are taking God out of schools.

Doing this for the inauguration will directly piss off every major Republican donor. The guy is either being foolishly antagonistic or he's a plant giving fuel to the flames of Republican demagoguery.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. I'm not a repub plant, and I have always been pissed of about

'under god' (inserted into the pledge in 1956), as well as 'in god we trust' (first put on US money four-score and five year after the founding).

We are not falling farther and farther from our christian roots. We are falling farther and farther from our secular roots, and when those secular roots die, so will the tree of liberty.

[Buck_Fush]

45. thank you for saying so, it is exactly as you say...n/t

[baby_mouse]

25. Good. eom.

[JohnnyRingo]

26. Anything that shoves a broom handle in the spokes of GWB's cushy ride

....Is alright by me

[Bouncy Ball]

30. I totally agree with his feelings

but erm....no one's gonna care about this. That being said, I wish him all the luck in the WORLD.

I think ALL references to deities that aren't in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc should be removed from our government. Money, swearing on the Bible in court, etc.

(Think how vulgar that is to put God's name on our MONEY. Ew. I've never thought that was a good move.)

[Bouncy Ball]

31. Oh and by the way

I am totally ok with some voodoo doctors presiding at bush's coronation and um, reciting a few......curses! LOL!

[UdoKier]

33. Talk about not knowing how to pick battles!

I'm as strong an advocate of church/state separation as anyone, but who the hell cares what they say at the inauguration? It's merely a ceremony. With all of what's going on, THIS is what concerns Newdow most?

Maybe Newdow is on Bush's payroll. Who else's interests does this story promote?

[Buck_Fush]

46. you know, it promotes MY interests, I am really tired of the under god

bullshit, and just because you aren't so tired of it doesn't make it less annoying to the rest of us.

[UdoKier]

52. Yeah yeah, whatever.

I'd love to see a purely secular government, but it is so far down my list of priorities after stopping this war, saving social security from looters like Bush, and preserving our very democracy that it's not even funny.

His pledge lawsuit may have had some validity, but this thing about the inauguration speech is RIDICULOUS. It's HIS oath. Nobody else has to take it and nobody is harmed by it. When YOU are elected president, you can take the oath as you see fit, according to your own values.

Anyway, have a nice stay at DU.

[Buck_Fush]

53. i agree there are a lot of issues, that doesn't make this one unimportant

and the ceremonies of our nation are a great deal less about Shrub than about those he supposedly serves, and that would be me and you. You have a "nice stay" at DU also, tiger.

[indigobusiness]

35. If I'm so bloody spiritual

why am I always on the side of Atheists, these days?

[BonjourUSA]

36. Why only an atheist ?

Shouldn't this issue concern almost all the American people ?

[Buck_Fush]

47. yes it should, atheists, pagans, jews, muslims, in fact, everyone but

christians is and should be offened all to hell.

[LizW]

37. Cool! This should bring out the loonies.

I think it would be entertaining to see a bunch of loony religious cultists at the inauguration, falling on the ground and speaking in tongues for the cameras as Bush takes the oath. Remember how funny it was when they removed the big rock with the 10 commandments from the Alabama Supreme Court building? I might even turn on the tv to see such a spectacle on a national scale.

[quaker bill]

39. He is just a publicity seeker, and this is just stupid

Guess what, I am not going. I am not watching it on TV either. I do not care if they pray and have no interest in finding out.

Honestly, I don't think prayer is going to help. One can hope for Divine Intervention, but I expect Bush will likely be there for the next 4 years regardless.

[alexisfree]

41. can you imagine if....

a lighting smacks F*ck in the head...??!!

[Buck_Fush]

54. I just love the way "supposed liberals" call any issue that isn't their

personal pet issue a "dumb" issue. If it isn't important to you, it must not be important, because you are the only one that matters in this country, right? It obviously wasn't you guys who put the "liberal" in the democratic party.

[Buck_Fush]

42. God bless this guy, I love 'im! n/t

[AliciaKeyedUp]

48. We need all the prayers we can get

And this guy is a walking, talking advertisement for the Republican Party. He highlights one of the areas where the vast majority of the U.S. disagrees with the hardcore left.

I wonder if he is a plant.

[OneTwentyoNine]

51. See my post #48. Would ANYONE put this past Kkkarl Rove??

I wouldn't....

[The Flaming Red Head]

49. I think he's being backed with Right Wing money

IMOHFO

[Swamp Rat]

55. WRONG TACTIC!

Arghh! Did the alien lizards give this guy a pod or something? x(

What people of ALL faiths/philosophy should do is: Demand equal representation! :)

I want to hear a one hour Muslim prayer when Bush is sworn in. :D

I want to hear an entire Catholic Mass including music from Mozart's "Coronation Mass in C Major," with dancing Franciscan monks thumping their heads with bibles! :bounce:

I want to see Uncle Sam read the entire U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights, and also read Mark Twain's "War Paryer!"... and quote Satre's "Being and Nothingness!"

Let's not allow Bush to spend our tax dollars on HIS friends only! It's our celebration too! :D

[alexisfree]

57. now did you metion this...

in England or any European country who is has a royal family the coronation process is been done inside of a church before of the higher priest, now F*er wants to do the same...."pay tribute to your king!!"

this should not be acceptable in this country..!!!!!!

[Swamp Rat]

64. Oui

[Trajan]

59. Equal treatment under the establishment clause ....

Kinda like two constitutional rights in one ....

[Hippo_Tron]

61. n/t

n/t

[Swamp Rat]

63. He may be an ass...

but I'm not really interested in Newdow per se.

Just for starters, I'm pissed off about paying for Pretzeldent Jayses's coronation. :grr:

[recovering democrat]

58. Alternative news

Miss Beazley, Armstrong Williams' payoffs from the Education Department, Hillary's staffer indicted, atheist lawsuit. Anything, but anything to report other than the election challenge and election fraud.

"pick your battles" seems like something we need to carefully consider here and not get sidetracked with this issue. Newdow is not my friend. He is the friend of the Christian crazies whom I abhor.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

60. Michael Newdow is A TRUE AMERICAN HERO.

This man has the cajones enough to STAND UP for the ideals of our American forefathers. I view him as a personal hero.

The separation of church and state is the lynch pin keeping our country democratic and NOT what Bush wants...a theocratic dictatorship.

JB

[Hippo_Tron]

62. I think that Newdow's kind of an ass, frankly

But I hope that his case will be taken seriously. Newdow's an ass but Bush is a MUCH bigger ass and I'd love to see him not be allowed to have prayer at his inauguration.