Why can't Republicans see what monsters the Bush people are?

[franksumatra]

Why can't they see the nazis right in front of them? How can we see it, yet they can't? Only after it's all blown to bits will they realize their stupidity to support such grotesque leaders. Only after it's too late.

[Racenut20]

1. They don't want to see anything ugly in their lives.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

2. Oh they know; they like it. They are all the same. They like

the arrogance, the ignorance and they love the torture. That's what's hard for us to understand; they like everything he's done, including the illegal war. As long as he doesn't get a bj in the W
H he's ok, but I'm sure there'd be some excuse for that too.

[illflem]

3. Because they are just as much of monsters

as the chimp in chief.

[FloridaPat]

4. 1. Too busy stuffing their pockets with money from this clown.

2. Seems they have a big thing about the morals in the country - but only having to do with sex and abortion - not genocide, lying (Unless your last name is Clinton), or murder. Bushco is doing everything it can to get the US back on the right course - no abortions, no sex in high school - (if you don't teach them anything they can't do anything I guess), get sex off TV and out of the movies, and lastly save marriage by getting rid of gays.

It's the old "as long as I'm in power and I get paid for it", they're happy. They probably even liked what Hitler did!

[ClintonTyree]

5. It's the herd mentality...............

there is one thing Reslugs do well, they stick together through thick and thin. They're in total lockstep (just like the Nazis) and don't dare get out of line for fear of punishment.
Fear; the best friend of a Reslug.
Imagine a herd of Wildebeasts. Then imagine that these same Wildebeasts are Reslugs. You may be able to pick off one or two on the perimeter, but the herd will survive intact.

[billbuckhead]

7. Jerry Falwell said the world looks perfectly fine.......................

on Fox News.

[KayLaw]

6. They want to be lied to

When my son was about 6, he came home from school one day and said another kid told him there was no Santa Claus. I told him that was the silliest thing I'd ever heard and my son and I laughed it off.

I was lying for my own reasons and my son chose to believe me, because he trusted me and because he wanted to believe in Santa.

The Bushes lie for more sinister reasons and the RW'ers chose to believe them. When the truth is thrust into their faces, the WH laughs it off, "Oh, there was nothing under Bush's jacket--unless he was talking to aliens, hah hah." or someone like Rush Limbaugh spins away, "Oh, those guys were just blowing off steam with a few fraternity pranks.No big deal, you can't believe anything the liberal media says. The Democrats are just playing politics."

I think they must know they are being lied to but chose to believe the lies, which is why I hope they get everything they voted for.

[JerseygirlCT]

8. There are none so blind as they who will not see...

they don't want to know, simple as that.

[Cobalt Violet]

9. Faux News has turned them all into brainwashed BushBots.

Germans supported their nazis too. But now look at them.

[Mend]

10. I asked one yesterday

a woman from Alabama whether she noticed how completely evil Bush was. She laughed and said she just didn't like Kerry. ps she is wealthy and has no draft age kids....what me worry? If it doesn't touch them or actually improves them financially, they know what he is but they just don't care.

[Career Prole]

11. Many are stupid but many others are like the Fonz

in that episode of "Happy Days" where he was trying to admit he was wrong but couldn't say the words.

"Hey, I was wr-r-r-r...okay, here we go...I was wr-r-r...wait, I can do this...I was wr-r-r-r..."

The truth shall set you free, repukes...don't be on the wrong side of history on this.

[quinnox]

13. heh

I remember that episode

[driver8]

41. Good one!!

I see that as an example of how the Shrub is...

"I was wr-rr-r-r...uhm, regardin' Iraq, I was wr-r-r-r..., aah...what I said about Social Security was wr-r-r-r-r-....ah hell, y'all now what I'm tryin' to say. It's the lib'ruls' fault."

[Vektor]

12. I can offer a long winded guess...

I don't think they see him as a monster. All the Republicans I know, and there are many, as I live in a very red county, truly believe he is a good, honorable man. I have talked to some of them about him, because I was genuinely curious as to why their assessment of him was so different than mine. All of the negative stuff that many people see about Bush, his supporters just don't see, or they see it from the other side of the fence.

For instance - when we look at the war in Iraq - we see a bungled mess, totally mishandled, totally unjust.

They see it as necessary - a battle against terrorism - the spread of Democracy to an oppressed people.

Same war, same situation, two TOTALLY different assessments of it.

One of the things that amazes me most about the polarization of this country, and how much at odds conservatives are with liberals, is the fact that is you sit down with anyone, no matter what side of the political spectrum they are on, and ask them WHY they support the causes they do, you will find that most people truly believe that what they support is the good, and the right thing to do. In other words, though you may not agree with the stance, the motivation for it is essentially a desire to help society - though the methods they see fit are not the same ones you might.

Sure there are nasty extremists fueled by hate that think with no rhyme or reason, but most Republicans believe (like us) that their platform, and their philosophy, promotes, and is in line with, the greater good.

I may not agree with the far right viewpoints, but in my communications with those folks that hold them, I can tell that most of them are not consciously motivated by "evil" per se, but just a very different opinion of what's right.

I met a 96-year-old lady who attends church with my Mom a few hours from where I live. My mom is a staunch Dem, and Dixie, bless her soul, is a dyed in the wool Republican. One day, the three of us were watching TV in the back room of the church while I was in town to help them set up for an event. GWB came on T.V., and Dixie put on her glasses and stared transfixed at the screen. She turned to my Mom and I with tears in her eyes, and clutched my Mom's hand and said, "Oh, George Bush is such a wonderful man, such a wonderful president." She was truly moved by him, it seemed. It never occurred to her that we might not be supporters.

My mom and I, though not in agreement with her, recognized the same sort of unadulterated appreciation that we have both have had for John Kerry for decades, and opted to remain quiet, knowing how sacred that hero worship can be.

Afterward, my mom said "I just didn't have the heart to say anything that might hurt Dixie's feelings...."

I agreed, that neither did I.

But I'd say that was the day that I learned that not all Republicans/Bush supporters are evil, necessarily - some of them are sweet little old ladies who really believe their president is a hero - just because. They don't see a monster - they see someone who claims to be a compassionate conservative, and a uniter not a divider, and they give him the benefit of the doubt.

:shrug:

[Skittles]

15. excuse me

republicans don't give a damn about oppression and the erosion of freedoms in America yet we are expected to believe they care about democracy for FOREIGNERS? I don't buy it; it does not pass the smell test ONE BIT.

[Vektor]

20. Well, ok. You don't have to convince me.

I wasn't defending their viewpoints, or saying that I felt they made sense, as much as I was saying that THEY think they are correct, for whatever reason.

You don't have to get angry with me - I don't claim to understand or agree with that sort of skewed thinking, nor do I support the war as promoting democracy. But I think that's how a lot of Bush supporters see it. Ask them yourself. They think it's the right thing to do. Somehow, some way, they do.

I meant only to respond to the original post which asked why they can't see Bush is a monster. To which I answered that they just don't see it that way, or choose not to.

I never said I agreed!

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. So they're lying to themselves.

Which doesn't surprise me.

[Vektor]

64. Makes sense...

I guess some people just believe whatever they want to...whatever suits them best.

[Skittles]

60. I am not angry with you

I am simply tired of hearing excuses made for asshole bush voters - THEY SUCK. If the information is not there for them the freaking RESULTS OF THE LAST FOUR YEARS ARE. If the daily deaths of young American soldiers doesn't convince them THEY CAN GO TO HELL - the "little old ladies" included.

[Vektor]

63. Alright....

I was trying to be nice, and maybe put myself in their shoes...
Was I being too generous?
I guess I just don't want to believe that many people can be deliberately evil.

[neebob]

66. They do suck, don't they.

I really struggle with this, because my mother is one of the little old ladies who suck. The thing is, she doesn't know it because she's never questioned any of her beliefs - or if she has, she won't admit it. Sometimes I think I might have poked a tiny hole in the massive wall of denial that she puts up, and maybe she peeks through it for a minute but doesn't like what she sees or something.

[Skittles]

68. believe me I take no pleasure in trashing peoples' loved ones

but something's got to GIVE - people who support Bush Inc are supporting FACISM, the DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA, the TRASHING OF OUR FUTURE. ENOUGH with coddling them and making excuses for them!

[yardwork]

24. I know some people like Dixie, although they aren't as old, so I speak out

The difference between admiring bush and admiring John Kerry is that admiration of bush is based on an incomplete grasp of the facts.

I believe that the majority of people who sincerely admire bush would be appalled and horrified by him if they knew the truth about what he is doing. The facts are out there - they just don't see them.

[Vektor]

65. I think that's the case...

People like Dixie just have blind faith. They really want to believe Bush is a great guy. So they do.

They don't see his true colors.

[Skittles]

14. stop capitalizing the word republicans

personally I think there is some sort of mass psychosis going on; that bastard bush has not fooled me since day one and I have never fallen for any of rove's dirty tricks.

[Vektor]

21. Neither have I...

but millions have...it's a great mystery.

[jdonaldball]

16. It's like those old "Far Side" cartoons, where

two monsters fall in love with each other while they think Humans are ugly.

[kcwayne]

17. They do not accept your premise that anything bad is going on

In fact, they think that things are on the right track.

No one should be surprised or incredulous about this behavior. It has occurred repeatedly throughout American history.

The founding fathers that wrote the guiding principle that "All men are created equal", yet denied that equality to blacks, native Americans and women. For 230 years the propaganda that America was a real democracy has been pedaled an accepted by people, and for 100 of those years people parroting that lie owned slaves and could murder native Americans or steal property from them with no legal consequence.

The "Greatest Generation" fought WW2 to stop the Nazis from eradicating freedom and democracy from the world. Yet they fully accepted telling black soldiers returning from the war to sit at the back of the bus, stay out of white only swimming pools and restaurants, and denied them the right to vote. After criticizing Germany for their stripping Jews of property and civil rights, US leaders had the audacity to be indignant when they were reminded by Hitler that the treatment blacks received in the US was no different than the treatment of Jews in Germany.

The type of person that supports Bush is the same type that committed the crimes against humanity outlined above. They disagree that society has a responsibility to the poor, and agree that the US should assert its dominance throughout the world, and to hell with anyone that is in the way. They are ignorant of history and proud of it. When they are dragged into the concentration camps filled with dead children and elderly and forced to face and take accountability for the evils done in their name, they will offer the same lame excuses that "good" German citizens did in 1945.

[ladjf]

18. There are several types of Republicans. The answer to your

question is different for each.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. For the same reason that good ole boys get away with everything.

Their little shenannigans are absorbed by the masses. The public just allows for a certain level of dirty tricks as long as the job gets done. The public, however, never REALLY knows how much they get cheated by, and this is also part of the agreed arrangement to look the other way. If anybody actually convinces them that they've been cheated by more than what they've received, then they're shocked, SHOCKED, at the gall! So, the question is, who is going to tell them?

My money is on the Olberman fellow and the caption would read: "Where's the outrage?" He should put up items from Salon's scandal sheet and explain how the media handled each news item; then compare it to how they handled items of the Clinton witchhunt back in the 90s. Our country is nothing if it can't be consistent in the way it applies the rules.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cthrumatrix]

34. After reading "Confessions of An Economic Hitman" I am depressed

in the way we are truly mislead at how we treat other countries and now we are turning on the US citizens...the end game is rapidly approaching.

[The Backlash Cometh]

52. Perhaps you should have been clearer, because the Admins

deleted a post that did not break rules.

[The Backlash Cometh]

56. In another thread, you described yourself as a fundie, yes?

Am I wrong to assume that fundies are conservative? Is it against DU rules to call a poster a conservative when they describe themselves as a fundie? All good questions which I welcome the moderators to respond to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=4371&mesg_id=5684&page=

Now, restating my arguments to BoogDoc7's post:

Your post does not mention anything about accountability. Giving arms to Saddam in the first place was a mistake that the Reagan Administration was not held accountable for. In fact, Bush capitalized and expanded on that mistake. He was sure he would find WMD, because he knew that Reagan and his daddy gave it to him. But it didn't work out well for him did it? Like trying to rub out an ink blot, and only making it worse.

I believe that the might-makes-right policy which we seem to use every time there's a Republican in power, makes our situation worse and is now encouraging our allies to make concessions with former opponents. I don't have a problem with strategic strikes, but that's not what we've been doing. We have been pushing bully politics which do not allow for diplomatic solutions.

As for your other points:

(1) The way Republicans "install" governments in foreign countries is not democracy. You're only fooling yourself.

(2) Your position of fetus having rights is disingenuous because libertarians believe in no government for a reason. They want to pursue their own interests and that means once a child is born, you feel you have no obligation to it and whatever social problems that are created by the number of unwanted births is not your concern.

(3) Business? No problem with people being good at making money, being allowed to. The argument is HOW they are allowed to make money. Of course, a libertarian would not want any regulation, which is the big problem with our business sector today. Too many greedy people getting away with too much corruption, and therein lies the problem. No accountability. It's those very greedy people who are selling out our country and who are increasing the poor in this country.

[bklyncowgirl]

22. I'd like to know why some Democrats can't see the same.

By this I mean the go along get along types who seem to be a good percentage of the Democrats in Congress.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[franksumatra]

30. I'm not dumb....

I am obsessed with the history of the nazis, and i know a nazi when i see one.

[el_gato]

35. Yes you are

For one thing we do not live in a democracy nor are we living in a constitutional republic. The checks and balances are not in place nor have they been for a very long time, if ever.

Your ignorance of history is astouding. Maybe you ought to go back to
say 1900 and look at the efforts to colonize and control the middle east by western powers, specifically Brittain and France. Do you think the people of the middle east do not have a right to self determination? Do you think that a century of support for puppet dictators in the middle east by western capital is something that should be ignored? Do you honestly think that the invasion of Iraq has anything at all do with installing "democracy" in that country? You are very naive indeed.

Meanwhile, back here in reality, the U.S. is being turned into a police state. Take a look at what happens when regular citizens that disagree with policies such as the FTAA try to speak truth to power. They are beat, gassed, and jailed. Why? Because the corporate powers have an agenda and they will see that agenda continue even if it means fascism overt or in a velvet glove.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[el_gato]

38. A few quotes for a blind republican

I spent 33 years and 4 months in active service as a member of our country’s most agile military force – the Marine Corps…and during that period, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism… I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect money in. I helped in the raping of a half a dozen Central Amercan republics for the benefit of Wall Street… I helped purify Nicaragua for the the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-12. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American suger interests in 1916. I helped get Honduras “right” for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I feel I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was operate in three city districts. We Marines operated on three continents.

- Gen. S. Butler, USMC
Two time winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor




“The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.”
(William Colby, former director of the CIA)

"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many, what day it's going to happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Oh, I mean, it's, not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
-Barbara Bush
March 18, 2003

"We are on the verge of global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."David Rockefeller to the United Nations Business Council in 1994
"Today the path to total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by Congress, the US President, or the people. Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government, a bureacratic elite which believes our Constitution is outmoded and is sure that it is the winning side. All the strange developments in foreign policy agreements may be traced to this group who are going to make us over to suit their pleasure. This political action group has its own local political support organizations, its own pressure groups, its own vested interests, its foothold within our government, and its own propaganda apparatus."- Senator William Jenner, 1954



"I know the secret of making the average American believe anything I want him to. Just let me control television. Americans are wired into their television sets. Over the last 30 years, they have come to look at their television sets and the images on the screen as reality. You put something on television and it becomes reality. If the world outside the television set contradicts the images, people start changing the world to make it more like the images and sounds of their television. Because its influence is so great, so pervasive, it has become part of our lives. You lose your sense of what is being done to you, but your mind is being shaped and molded." Hal Becker, The Futures Group



It's one thing to have your head up your ass, it's another thing to enjoy the view!!!
- someone on DU




The chairman of the entertainment giant Viacom said the reason was simple: Republican values are what U.S. companies need. Speaking to some of America's and Asia's top executives gathered for Forbes
magazine's annual Global CEO Conference, Mr. Redstone declared: "I look at the election from what's good for Viacom. I vote for what's good for Viacom. I vote, today, Viacom.

"I don't want to denigrate Kerry," he went on, "but from a Viacom
standpoint, the election of a Republican administration is a better
deal. Because the Republican administration has stood for many things we believe in, deregulation and so on. The Democrats are not bad people. . . . But from a Viacom standpoint, we believe the election of a Republican administration is better for our company."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005669




Today American's would be outraged if troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.
Henry Kissinger - May 21, 1992
in an address to the Bilderberg Organization Meeting, Evian, France

They... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned. . . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features. . . They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane. . . They would make fine servants. . . With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.
Christopher Columbus
(from his log - referring to the
Arawak Indians of the Antilles)



. . . as in the case of the U.S. Constitution, we are more likely to make progress by pressing the existing instrument to the outer limits of its potentialities through creative use. . .
. . . The house of world order will have to be built from the bottom up rather than the top down. . . an end run around sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault.
Richard N. Gardner - April, 1974, Foreign Affairs
from The Hard Road to World Order
(Council on Foreign Relation's Journal)




Only someone completely distrustful of all government would be opposed to what we are doing with surveillance cameras.
Howard Safir
NYC Police Commissioner - 1999


Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it.
Mayor Rudolph Giuliani - NYC
New York Times, March 17, 1994



"Saddam Hussein has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."
Powell in Cairo on February 24, 2001

"We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."
Condoleeza Rice, April 2001


"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on."
Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of Defense May 28, 2003
(In case you don't know Wolfowitz is a member of PNAC, one of the key think tanks
that helped formulate current U.S. foreign policy.)

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcane1]

"supremacy of our culture"

that's nazi talk

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. you may not be blind but you are ignorant

kennedy and kerrys policies are actually very similar.

[Stirk]

48. You liked JFK because of you believe he was an imperialist?

"...he believed in American exceptionalism, in the spread of liberty to foreign nations, and in the supremacy of our culture.

That's why you voted for Bush. If you want to shove your culture and your corporations down other people's throats, Bush is a great candidate.

[radwriter0555]

26. It took people decades to realize hitler was a monster too. People see

what they WANT to see.

It explains the beliefs in various religions.

[jdonaldball]

28. Problem is, Hitler was not a Monster. He was very

Human. Like his followers.
Hitler's warning to us is not to be wary of monsters. It's to be wary of Humans.
I think it was Pascal who said something like, "Men are neither beasts nor angels, and so, whenever men try to be like angels they end up behaving like beasts."

[Alpharetta]

27. "Why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22my+beautiful+mind%22+Barbara&btnG=Google+Search

Their denial is deliberate. They don't want to know the ugliness of Reagan's death squads in Guatemala killing 300,000 villagers who had no knowledge of politics, just in case they MIGHT turn communist. They don't want to know "smart bombs" maim and kill innocents. They don't want to know Kissinger's intrusions have backfired and are part of the cause of 9/11.

They are going to hold onto their fantasy world. Nothing, not even 9/11, will make them join the brotherhood of man. They're just too damn afraid.

[bobweaver]

29. Republicans and conservativism appeal to one thing: human selfishness

[neebob]

31. Because they don't want to

I've given this a lot of thought because of my mother. She believes everything George Bush and the various corporate tools who prop him up say because, on the surface, their lies agree with everything she's ever been taught and apparently never questioned. It's a combination of having been indoctrinated (read: brainwashed) - by church and state, since 1936 - and falsely assuming that others are playing by the same set of rules as she is. She wants to believe they're good people because they say things she agrees with. She hears the words and imagines that the actions agree, but she doesn't really see the actions.

It's ironic, because she's the one who taught me about words and actions. Still, it took being nearly ruined by a ruthless con man who sucked me in with words and things I wanted to believe for me to really get down to words and actions. It's really easy to see after a couple of wretched, demoralizing years with an abusive psychopath and five more putting my life back together. I can't even tell you how lucky I am. There's nothing quite like a trip to the brink and massive humiliation to fine-tune one's character-judging skills.

I see no difference between what happened to me and what is happening to the country. No difference at all. And my mother thinks I'm just jaded because I met this one scumbag. Darn him. She'll never see the similarities between him and her hero, George Wonderful Goodpersonbush.

I don't think most of my liberal friends really see the criminal standing before them, taunting them, or realize just how dangerous he is. Or how many like him there are. I'm not sure I would, if I hadn't had this practice.

Anyway, I'm not optimistic about too many people seeing the truth about Bush before he causes a horrible disaster that affects them in an unmistakably personal way. Even then, my mother and a lot of other people who are similarly brainwashed will not blame him.

[OnionPatch]

37. I think they believe the "terrorists want to take over the world"

Remember the American woman who said if it weren't for the troops she'd be wearing a burka now? Some of them actually believe the "terrorists" are some sort of new communist-type threat. Bushco has made it seem like that to them when in reality they do not have near the power to come anywhere close to taking over the world. They are merely a group of whacky, pissed-off people who would never have the following they have if our govt. and our huge corporations didn't assist their governments in their oppression.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. either bigotry or greed or laziness stops them

most people are highly intellectually lazy.

[NeoTraitors]

40. Mr Flood

Abu-Ghrabe reminded me of Nazi's (mini-Holocaust) and my Grandfather was a POW in WWII. Invading a country that posed no threat to us reminds me of the Nazis. Attacking the patriotism of those skeptical of going to war reminds me of the Nazis. Blaming all of our countries problems on a group or groups (muslims, gays etc) reminds me of the Nazis.
Ferverant nationalism in support of an obviously flawed 'leader' reminds me of the nazis. Constantly lying and being a straight up hypocrite reminds me of the nazis. In short everything this administration has done reminds me of the nazis.

YOU are the problem with America Mr. Flood. Wake up!

[NeoTraitors]

44. And another thing Mr. Flood

I am not Sherlock Holmes but I am becoming VERY skeptical about the event that started the whole 'Vote Bush cuz he keeps us safe from terrorism,' 9/11. It is their excuse for everything and I think that it is possible that they either made it happen or were aware of the plans and let it happen. They have capitalised on this 'New Pearl Harbor' since day one. Imagine if they had planned on invading Iraq before 9/11. Oops they did- PNAC.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. hey you arent replying to mr. flood...i agree with you anyway

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[franksumatra]

49. so, the p.o.w.'s at abu ghraib didn't truly suffer?

they suffered at abu ghraib, they suffered at auschwitz, suffering is suffering, and torture is torture.

[NeoTraitors]

50. Sick torturing of human beings is sick

torturing of human beings. Nazis approve of this tactic. Hitler and Bush.

[Spider Jerusalem]

42. Probably for the same reason...

that we look at Bill Clinton and see a decent but flawed man and a good president, and they see an immoral, corrupt socialist thug.

It's all a matter of perspective.

[NNguyenMD]

51. same reason why sports fan still root for their winning teams

even if the athletes on the roster are gutter thugs

[LynnTheDem]

53. Many Republicans DO see.

The "liberal media" doesn't like to give em air time, but many Republican Senators and Reps have and do speak out against bush & Cartel.

[lady lib]

54. This is your brain, this is your brain on Bush

This article in the NYT says that Rep's and Dem's liked both candidates, but "to keep from succumbing, they dredge up emotion-laden negative images as a counterweight." Hmmmm. Thoughts?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/opinion/18freedman.html?oref=login

[stanwyck]

55. ask them, this is what you'll hear

ask them about the White House revealing the identity of an undercover CIA agent (which is treason). You'll get a blank stare. Ask them about Ken Lay attending energy meetings in the White House. You'll be looking at a farm animal. Ask them about the numerous lies of Bush's push for war. Again, nothing. They don't know. They really don't. I talk over my rightwing co-worker/friends every day. It's so easy. They don't know what is going on. Many are good people who would abhor what is happening. But they only watch Faux (which has the most abysmal record of accuracy for viewers on current events) or listen to hateradio, which lies with impudence as they know their listeners don't know the difference. Listen to Limbaugh or Hannity. You'll hear fact errors a middle-schooler will identify easily. But not the party faithful. They swallow the Kool-Aid without questioning or seeking out another source. They're complacent.

[lady lib]

57. Good point. I think they enjoy that Kool-Aid buzz.

Complacency and being part of the team feel so much better than raging against the machine. Right?

[Rapcw]

58. It's definitely because of something in the water.

that or kool-aid.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. Three possibilities:

1) They actually approve of what the Bushies are doing. Scary but true.

2) They are deluded into believing that up is down and wrong is right.

3) They are followers who will go along with whatever is popular at the moment.

[Johonny]

61. They do

I know a lot of republicans that hate Bush. But they can't vote for a non-republican. The two party good/bad American society is too ingrained in them. For them the only hope is a "good" republican canidate in 4 years.

[jokerman93]

62. I see the same thing

In my family my two older brothers are Bush supporters. Both wealthy and otherwise very good ethical humanitarian folks. My aversion to the Bush administration and its crimes is seen as hysterical and given no import. They are men of the world who see things clearly. I am merely an emotional gadfly who's lived outside Amerika for awhile...

It seems to me, in this new post-modern era, facts are irrelevant. What's important is what you think is real. It's all about your point of view.

There is no longer a dialectic of any substance; there's no dialog and debate as we might have once thought of it. There's just the ones on top, and the ones on the bottom. Apparently, America is on top because God wants it that way.

[bobbieinok]

67. my brothers are also 'men of the world who see things clearly'

one a business man, the other long-term military

my problem, according to them...I live in an 'ivory tower' and have never had to deal with the 'real world'