I think I saw the defense strategy today....

[jbm]

First though,I have to confess something. Sometimes on saturday mornings I watch the "Cost Of Freedom" series of stock market shows on FOX. This morning as part of one of their shows they had the repub Jim guy debate a democrat whose name I never caught. The debate was whether we should stay in Iraq..and the jim guy said it was time to declare a victory and bring the troops home. He said our purpose had been regime change,we had acheived that goal,and the Iraqi people weren't our problem or our concern(I paraphrased that part..but it really was what he was saying). The dem guy did a great job of defending..he wanted NATO and the UN brought in..but the context of the argument forced him to take the position that our troops must stay...while the repub advocated bringing them home.

I think I was seeing the beginning of a new strategy. I do not believe that having created this chaos in Iraq we can just "pack up and go home",but apparently the repubs are about to argue we should.The dems are going to find themselves in a position where we have to insist we stay..and in a year when who knows how many of our troops have been killed,the repubs will argue that they tried to bring the troops home,but the dems said no...and in a year the average Joe won't remember exactly the circumstances that existed today.

Can we stop this strategy before it begins?

[SayitAintSo]

1. I haven't seen that strategy yet ... One thing that plagues me though....

is how we could take unilateral action as we did, against the will of many of our allies, a very thoughtful, articulate and unprecedented global antiwar movement, and NOW after war effort disolves into the quagmire that many predicted, the US asks for HELP ? Money, troops, etc. to assist in this mess? The global community should be doing the 'I told you so' on prime time. I don't hear much of that and I'm surprised.\

The strategy you see may very well be true. The Dems, the party with a conscience, would be the ones feeling responsible to assist in cleaning up the mess we made. The 'compassionate conservatives' just want to 'get the hell outta Dodge', and go onto the next conquest.

[TomNickell]

2. A new president could...

The winning argument is:

This fool has pissed off the whole world and turned the world against us. Doesn't matter whether the invasion was right or wrong, we're there now and have to deal with the actual very bad situation. Under Bush there is no chance of any substantial help from the rest of the world. Only a NEW president can repair relations with our allies and with the Muslim world. THEN we can work up an international effort to stabilize Iraq and get our boys home.

[berry]

3. I read somewhere that help is being refused from some quarters.

I too expected the rest of the world to let the US reap what it has sowed, but apparently one reason that even countries that opposed the war are willing to help is economic (and not necessarily or only a narrowly conceived economic self-interest, though of course that could be part of it). The whole world economy is linked to ours, and they really don't want to see us mess up, because the whole world will suffer. I DO think that Bushco* sometimes uses that economic leverage to force others to go along with their other plans, but even without threats, others can see down the road to the probable results of US actions, and they may be willing to try to soften them.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the world doesn't want to see the US bankrupt itself in its war-lust. What amazes me is that Bush* seems totally unconcerned about the costs (economic and other) of keeping the reconstruction of Iraq a totally-US project. It's killing our troops. It's costing $1 billion a week. It's even keeping our options closed as to starting other wars (though naturally I rejoice in this result, if not the causes of it). So why refuse help? Is it all and only ego and power-tripping? I can only ever get so far in trying to imagine the motives of Bushco* and then I bog down--but I do think we need to KNOW what they really really want. They are cagy about this, which makes it all the more certain that their real motives and goals are totally unacceptable to most Americans (and maybe to all non-Americans).

[BeFree]

4. Bring the fighters home, send in Peacekeepers

What part of "Installing Democracy in Iraq" do these pukes not understand?

The US has: removed the regime, learned that Iraq had no WMD, and taken control of the resources. The only thing left is to install democracy. Now these pukes want out? Just goes to show their true intentions. Democracy means nothing to them.

[Fleshdancer]

5. I agree, this is the strategy

I've noticed this when Dean was criticized for stating that not only should the troops stay, but we need more over there for stability. He wants an international coalition to help with this, they won't all be American troops. Pubs are trying to paint him as a hypocrite for speaking out against the war but then wanting to keep soldiers there. I don't think the charge is sticking though, but only time will tell.

The best answer to this came from a woman named Sharon who lives in NM. She made a magnificent post on the Dean weblog that gave me goose bumps. Here's her last paragraph and what I think should be our response to this:

"The lies are going to stop. They stop now. The American people will pay the price for your mess and the American people will clean it up but by God the lies are going to stop."

Posted by Sharon in NM at July 10, 2003 11:40 PM www.blogforamerica.com

[jbm]

6. wow!

"The lies are going to stop. They stop now. The American people will pay the price for your mess and the American people will clean it up but by God the lies are going to stop."


I love that. Hooray for Sharon!

[bpilgrim]

7. all part of the "good cop/bad cop" routine, imo

we are in there, and we ain't goin nowhere until iraq runs out of oil or they kick us out, which will probably come first, count on years not months especially if this cabal stays in power :'(

it is also highly unlikely that a 'democracy' will be installed there with any help from us, if we use only our recent (60 years) history as a guide.

the only real answer is to RELIEVE OUR TROOPS with a UN sanctioned INTERNATIONAL FORCE of PEACE KEEPERS, immediately!

and...

let the UN take over the 'NATION BUILDING'

then we can get BACK TO our REAL WAR hunting UBL and his followers :argh:


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peace