Pro-Life and anti-adoption- WTF?!?!?!?

[Modem Butterfly]

Today I had lunch with a bunch of co-workers, some of whom are quite conservative. The conversation turned to Georgia politics in general, and the abortion issue in specific, since some GOPers are trying to institute a 24-hour waiting period and a scare-tactics video aimed at women considering abortion (as though someone decides on a freaking whim to have an abortion) Anyway, I'm in HR so I try not to be too open about politics at work, since I don't want to be accused of not being neutral and fair, so I'm mostly staying quiet while a few co-workers argue about choice. Three or four, as it turns out were very much rabid anti-choicers. The conversation turns and people start talking about childbirth in general and someone asks me when my partner and I will have kids. I explain that we're not planning any in the immediate future, but that if and when we decide to have some, we'll probably adopt.

Boy howdy! The flood gates freaking opened!

All these wonderful anti-choice co-workers started almost berating me about considering adoption. "Don't you want to have your own children?" "I'd be worried something was wrong with a kid whose own mother didn't want him," "I could never adopt- I would be afraid of the kid turning out to be some kind of bad seed," etc. etc. These are the people that are opposed to abortion like nobodies business! So I point out that all the kids that are born to women who don't have abortions have to find a home somewhere, and at that point, conversation kind of ceased until the food was brought.

Holy smokes! Literally! Have you ever encountered such bullshit in your LIFE?

[Bunny]

1. Total freaks. They want to completely control your body, don't they?

Assholes. :mad:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Nice job indeed!

These idiots never think beyond the choices in front of their nose or their church pews.

[Modem Butterfly]

10. Shit like this is the reason I try not to discuss politics at work.

I thought all these people were nice, decent sorts who show up on time, do their jobs, avoid harassing or discriminating against people, and are mostly sane and even-keeled.

Some days I fucking hate other people.

[okieinpain]

29. wait until the local human services start asking for additional

funds because of the increase of children being born.

[Blue_Tires]

3. typical breeder mentality which is

becoming more and more common in bush's america

[spooked911]

4. Scary people!

[meegbear]

5. WTF indeed!

Talk about not being able to please some people.

[merbex]

6. So this is what they teach in fundamentalist churches

real Christian

Not

[donheld]

7. I could never adopt- I would be afraid of the kid turning out to be some

kind of bad seed,"
tell them, "don't worry, i'm not planning on adopting your kids." Tell them you intend to adopt kids who have not learned to hate.

[aden_nak]

8. It doesn't sound like their genes are all that special in the first place.

[Branjor]

9. Just when I think it can't get any worse....

they bring bullshit to yet a new height. The RW has as yet no mesured limit on the amount of bs they are willing to espouse.

[CottonBear]

11. Hypocrites.

I bet they don't want to pay the taxes to support the cost of medical and foster care for these children either?
Have you noticed that everyone wants to adopt foreign babies (Chinese girls mainly) but no one wants the black babies from right here in Georgia? Many of these poor kids age right of the system.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. "Pro-life"=hypocrite Prolife=control of women

They are not only against adoption, they are against prenatal health care, post-natal health care, education (sex or any other kind), birth control, but condoms and viagra for old men are ok. Any kind of health care for women. The truth is that the underlying principle of the "pro-life" movement has nothing at all to do with the sanctity of life. It has all to do with controlling women; their minds and their bodies. Read "The Handmaid's Tale" if you want to know what they have in mind.
Remember.."prolife" is totally about controlling women. Think about what the fundamentalists think the woman's role in the world is. Think about how the Muslilm fundamentalists treat women. It is the exact same concept.
ON EDIT: We should reframe the argument the way they did. They started calling themelves "PROLIFE". We should start calling them anti-life, and anti-woman, because that is what they really are.
The minute that baby leaves the womb they could not care less about what happens to it.
Look at how many prisoners the great "pro-lifer" Bush has executed in Texas. How many of these great soul savers are against the death penalty, are against sending our children off to war to kill and be killed? HYPOCRITES!!! Why is this soul only valuable while it is inside a woman's womb?
I heard this a long time ago, and stil believe it:
IF MEN GOT PREGNANT, ABORTION WOULD BE A SACRAMENT.

[w4rma]

17. I refuse to call these people "pro-life". They are pro-control if anything

Anti-choice, pro-death penalty, pro-war is usually how their issues line up.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. EXACTLY!

[VOX]

45. YES! Do not call them by that false name--the name that *they* want!!!

"Pro-life" is as deceitful and misleading a handle as *'s "Clear Skies Initiative," "No Child Left Behind," "Healthy Forests Initiative," etc.

The right wing has mastered the trick of naming-something-what-it-isn't. :grr:

[realFedUp]

13. Rounding up orphans into camps and turning them into soldiers

of war and religion...kinda sounds like madrassas.

[peacetalksforall]

14. A perfect example of non-thinking, non- feeling christianity.

(christianity not capitalized on purpose. I am now reserving the C for those Christians and non-Christians who believe in persuing peace.)

[Kerrytravelers]

18. My mother thanks God everyday she was adopted.

Her biological parents were two 15 year old kids. They loved her so much, they gave her to her parents, mature people who wanted a child. She had the best life. As far as I know, she is no demon seed or serial killer.

But, I guess the jury is still out...

:evilgrin:

[davidinalameda]

15. bad seed?

love it

these are probably the same people who want poor women to have their tubes tied

[Book Lover]

16. As if those 9 months mean something

OK, I bet I'm going to get flamed for this, but this is something I have been brooding over for a long time. Pregnancy is nothing when compared to having and raising a child. 9 months of my life went by, and all I got were these lousy stretch marks; they did not increase my capacity to love the person who I gestated. Pregnancy should be all about putting your feet up and making demands; it is not some kind of magical mystical experience that makes the child I raise my "own." That comes after the third diaper change in a row where the kid projectile poops; after you have raised a person long enough to want to run away, *that* is what makes a kid your own.

[Kerrytravelers]

19. after you have raised a person long enough to want to run away,

after you have raised a person long enough to want to run away, *that* is what makes a kid your own.


Hysterical! :yourock:

[Mandate My Ass]

20. No flames here ...

projectile poop - LOL. It's been a long time but I sure remember those.

I remember taking my infant son to the ER one cold Dec. witht the stomach flu. He puked curdled milk down my blouse in the car and the nurses wouldn't even give me a scrub top to put on when I got there. I was wishing he still had a few projectile pukes left in him so I could hose them down as well.

These people talk about values but the only thing they really value is the perch they wish to sit upon and rule over those they consider inferior.

[BrklynLiberal]

23. HEH HEH I had the same experience..but it was at the pedicatrician's

office, not the emergency room. My son threw up right down the inside of my coat. I can laugh now..but I wasn't laughing then.

[Mandate My Ass]

27. Sorry to hear that....

this happened on Xmas Eve and I couldn't get hold of my ped so I took him to the ER. I couldn't believe a little belly like that could hold all that disgusting goo. With the heat on full blast, that was the longest, smelliest car ride of my life. Ewwwwwwwww.

He's 25 now, I think when I see him later this week it's not too late to remind him of how he traumatized his poor mamma. }(

[shrike]

38. Vomit -- the great equalizer

I once knew a yuppie who insisted on the best of everything for himself. He even went so far to have a couch custom-made in North Carolina -- "It'll last forever," he boasted.

Then he had kids. I remember the day he came in to work, traumatized and livid because one of the kids had thrown up all over his "beautiful" couch.

[Fleshdancer]

31. HAHAHA!

Great post! I for one think pregnancy is over-rated. Some women love it but not me. I love parenting though and I adore my daughter but not because of the stretch marks or because of the 13 hours of labor or *gasp* feeling her move inside of me for the first time (so many women I know gush over that sensation and I thought it felt utterly gross). To be honest, I love her in spite of all that, lol! ;)

I can't imagine loving her any less if I had adopted her. That concept doesn't make any sense to me.

[CrispyQ]

22. People who say,

"Don't you want your own child" have a perverted idea of what being a parent is about. I have an ex-friend whose husband is a homophobe. They had a very difficult time getting pregnant & when I asked if they considered adoption, she said no, they might end up with a homosexual child. I never spoke to her again.

[BrklynLiberal]

25. That is one of the sickest things I have ever heard. You did good not

ever speaking to her again. Wow. (You know that the dime-store psychological theory says that such a virulent homophobe is probably a self-loathing closet u-no-what, and the chances of them having a gay child are pretty good. Won't that be a kick in the head for them?)

[Modem Butterfly]

26. For the hypothetical gay child's sake, I hope not

Justice for the parent, at the expense of justice for the child.

:scared:

[Avalux]

24. par for the course -

stupid, narrow-minded American idiots. They don't think, they just drink the kool-aid.

[Swamp Rat]

28. Suggestion: Do not waste a second more of your life with these idiots. n/t

[Modem Butterfly]

32. They're coworkers

These are not people I would choose to associate with of my own free will. Believe me!

[Swamp Rat]

37. I understand...

but my suggestion entails not to speaking to them when it isn't necessary. In other words, be polite and professional, but do not eat or take breaks in the same vicinity whenever possible. If you must, read a book and ignore them.

peace

[Modem Butterfly]

40. Yeah, that's my usual policy

Unfortunately, there are some company functions that can't be avoided. But from now on, I'm going to absent myself from any discussions like this in the future. Yuck!

[China_cat]

30. Have I ever encountered such bullshit?

Every time I ask an anti-choicer who says that a woman can put a child up for adoption if she doesn't want to raise it how many he/she has adopted.

Invariably, I have gotten "I have my own kids", "that isn't -my- problem", or a variation (sometimes a combination) of the two.

Or I hear "we adopted a child from China". Which pisses me off no end, considering the numbers of kids in this country that need homes.

As for the 'my own' children crap, my grandfather used to tell people that he had all 'his own' teeth...they might go in a jar at night but they weren't anybody else's.

As an aside, who do the anti-choicers blame when their 'natural' children ending up being spawn from hell?

[leesa]

33. It's the way they usually think. That's why I always ask the Fundies who

is going to adopt all these kids if they are born. They NEVER have an answer, unless it's a single example of a person they know or read about who adopted ten or some such thing. Thay are faaaaar too selfish to take other people's kids into their home. Their families are about themselves.

[atommom]

34. Yuck! It's amazing ... they probably consider themselves

very good, upstanding Christians. But their bigotry has gotten so out of hand that they imagine outsiders' children to be Bad Seeds. It does demonstrate just how little love and generosity they actually possess. :(

[Pendrench]

35. "your own kids"

Speaking as the father of two (both adopted - one domestic and the other international) it still amazes me that some people still have this attitude.

The funny thing is, my wife and I sometimes forget that our kids are adopted!! Its just something that we don't even think about any more.

They ARE our own kids.

[NC_Nurse]

36. I have always been able to hear a pin drop

when I ask pro-lifers which of the crack babies or abused children they would like to adopt from our hospital.

Shit, they don't want to adopt a HEALTHY child, much less put their RW religous hearts where their mouths are. It's all about people not having sex because they don't approve....ya know it's a SIn and all that hogwash. Never mind that reality contiunes, these children will be born, and THEY are supposed to be the ones who are so charitable and value GAWD's gift of life so much.

They also don't have much to say when one points out all the Iraqi children that have been killed in this stupid war and why aren't THEIR lives sacred?

Asshats! :mad:

[Modem Butterfly]

42. Pregnancy as a blessing and a curse

What kills me is the way they simultaneously speak of being pregnant as a blessing, and as a curse imposed on those who have sex out of wedlock ("You play, you pay," and "That's what you get for not following God's plan,"). What a strange dichotomy.

[dsc]

39. I know a lot of pro lifers

and opposition to adoption is pretty rare among them. I find it hard to believe that all of them were as opposed to adoption as you are painting them to be.

[shrike]

41. Yet I think adoption carries as much stigma amongst some people

as abortion -- if not more.

I've known some adopted folks, and I always felt sorry for them when people asked their parents, "which ones are your "real" children, and which ones are adopted?"

Of course, I knew a guy who said if anyone asked him that question, he had to stop and think -- he couldn't remember which ones he had adopted and which ones he'd "sired."

[Modem Butterfly]

43. I wasn't aware I was painting all pro-lifers anything

I think I found a clutch of weird ones. But frankly, with the sheer numbers of children needing homes but not getting adopted, I doubt the commitment of many pro-lifers to adoption. I think there's a lot of societal stigma attached to adoption that some people are willing to voice, like my coworkers, and some people aren't.

[Nobody]

44. There are mothers and there are mommies

Fathers and daddies. The difference is that the mommies and daddies are the ones who raise the child, who tell bedtime stories, change diapers, clean up the vomit, teach the kids to play various games, teach them how to drive, ground them when they stay out way too late and other parenting things.

Sometimes mommies and daddies are the same as the mothers and fathers whp provided the DNA. Sometimes not.

When you're a mommy or daddy, you ARE the real parents.

A friend of mine who gave up her firstborn to another family is a guest speaker on open adoptions. She'd likely ream your co-workers until there was no shit left.