why do i get the feeling that hysterically-anti-choice people

[elehhhhna]

...harbor deep fears about their own status as 'wanted' children?

[tuvor]

1. Why don't you tell us?

[brown6004]

2. LOL...

Do you understand your own question?

[efhmc]

5. I sure the poster does. It's quite clear. Why don't you?

What is being asked is why so many of these people seem to think they would not be here if their Moms had had a choice. Seem very straight forward to me.

[brown6004]

7. I understood the question...

But it sounds more like phenomenon called "projection."

The way this question was posed is classic projection. I can feel the anxiety all the way in Florida.

[efhmc]

9. To me, they were just trying and I thought quite sucessfully,to be

clever. Let me guess, you are antichoice and therefore see the question as "projection"?

[brown6004]

17. No...

I guess I've never really thought about abortion because I'm a man. I don't even know anyone that has ever had an abortion. Maybe I'm too isolated, maybe I'm selfish, but I've never thought about it one way or the other, because it has never affected me.

So I say...why ask the question? Unless...it's projection?

[Fridays Child]

3. Good point. I wouldn't want 'em.

Surely, they must sense, on some level, their own undesirability.

[boneygrey]

4. I'm pro choice but I was nearly aborted

When I was about 11 years old I asked my mother if I was born premature. She said no, why do you ask?. My answer was , you and Dad were married in Sept. and I was born in March. Then it dawned on her that I had been through a sex-ed course at school. After much fretting, she said , well I had two choices aren't you glad of the choice I made. After 41 yrs. my folks are still married.

In my opinion, if a soul is meant to be born, it will be born. Abortion is only the body, that soul will live in another body.

[efhmc]

6. That is what my Mom always said. That every person here asked to

be born and so they were. Interesting idea.

[boneygrey]

10. I agree with your Mom n/t

[tuvor]

12. That's not what I told my parents on bad days.

:)

[meow2u3]

8. My take on anti-abortion extremists

(Notice I did NOT say pro-life; real pro-lifers want to protect all life--born and unborn)

The men probably paid for numerous abortions for their mistresses to 'hide the evidence' from their wives; and the women likely had abortions they won't admit to.

[efhmc]

11. The one person I knew in college who had 2 abortions (and remember

it was illegal then)paid for by her rich parents, became a right wing antichoice bigot of the highest order.

[tuvor]

14. She has firsthand knowledge of what it's all about, though.

If anyone's got a right to be firm and vocal about their position on this issue, I would say she's a clear contender.

Assuming she's honest about her past, of course.

[efhmc]

16. Again, she had the "right" (illegal but okay if you could afford it) to

that choice when she needed or wanted it but no one else does. Hypocrisy of the highest order.

[tuvor]

21. Gotcha.

[sendero]

13. Don't forget the contigent...

.... of loser men who get mad when they get a "vote of no confidence" from their girlfriends who aren't about to have a baby they will get no help with whatsoever.

There are plenty of those.

[Liberty Belle]

15. When I worked in the CA legislature, the most anti-choice

legislators were ones who had suffered personal losses. The leading anti-choice Senator had once had a small child who drowned; another had a wife who had been trying for years to get pregnant, but couldn't. I disagreed heartily with their politics, but I believe there was at least some sincerity behind their wish to protect babies--not just some jerk wanting to control women's bodies.

I wonder how many of the seemingly irrational anti-choice crowd falls into this category.

[ultraist]

18. I doubt many

Honestly, I feel it has more to do with feeling so fucking righteous that they are compelled to force their religious beliefs on others.

Every anti-choice fanatic I've met was a religious zealot. It's the religious that believe that a few week old blastocyst is a child and refuse to accept Scientific findings. Science oriented individuals view a zygote, blastocyst, embryo and later a fetus as a POTENTIAL human life that may or may not be actualized. A few day old zygote is NOT a child.

It's a faith based idea vs. fact and reason issue.

My sister in law (no shared DNA) is a NUT anti-choicer. She is a "born again" zealot after being a slut and having had abortions. She also has major issues with her mother.

People who are prone to join cults have personality disorders and often times personality disorders are triggered and exacerbated by trauma. So broadly, I think the OP bears some weight.

[dsc]

20. gee you aren't judgemental not at all

I am sure you have met a lot of pro choicers who opened up to you. Between you calling them sluts, cultists and impling mental illness on their part. I would sooner tell a Klan member I was gay and dating a black man than tell you I was pro life.

[efhmc]

22. Please, prolife, I am prolife. I just do not need others telling me what

and when that is.

[ultraist]

23. You are twisting my words: we are talking about the EXTREME anti-abortion

people, NOT pro-lifers, although what do pro lifers base their argument on, RELIGION.
Regarding your statement, "I am sure you have met a lot of pro choicers who opened up to you" Don't you mean ANTI-choicers?

I said my sister in law was a slut not all ANTI choicers. She talks about what a slut she was and claims this is why she became born again. I'm not judging her, she made that judgement herself. Those are her words. But she is a good case study because she is an EXTREME anti-abortion activist. Most of her co-EXTREME anti abortion activists have similiar religious zealot viewpoints.

And, yes, I do believe a good deal of the hardcore ANTI-choicers are cultists. Those that are conservative religious zealots. It's no secret that people who are conservative religious zealots are often times afflicted with mental conditions. People who are susceptible to joining cults are not emotionally healthy individuals.

This is judgement based on research and fact. It's not just my oppinion. Research: cult, conservative religiosity, zealots, and anti-abortion, see what you come up with.

[Nadienne]

19. I had a friend once who talked to picketers outside

the Planned Parenthood clinic. One person he talked to was a lady in her forties, still a virgin. She was of the opinion that sex outside of marriage is a sin. From the way my friend tells it, she was quite vehement about this. Seems to me that she thinks such "sinners" should be branded with a pregnant belly and a ringless finger - the modern version of a scarlet letter on a woman's clothing.

I wonder how many other fanatical anti-abortionists are the same way...

[ultraist]

24. MOST of the "hysterical ANTI-choicers" are religious zealots

Conservative religious views are the premises of their argument. Individuals who rely on fact and Science to guide their decisions regarding abortion do not believe that a few day old zygote is a child thus abortion is murder.

Did anyone see all of the religious icons the people were holding up during their PRAYER session at this last ANTI-choice protest?

Conservative religiosity should NOT direct what laws we should enact. We have a secular democracy. Nationalizing religion defies our Constitution.

excerpts
http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2005a/012805/012805h.php

Former Catholic Charities USA president J. Bryan Hehir, a priest of the Boston archdiocese, urged caution to those who would use religious imagery and language in the public sphere. Morality, which has an appeal beyond specific religious doctrines or denomination, said Hehir, should be the mediator between religion and politics in civil society. A pluralistic society such as the United States requires those who assert religious claims “to justify them to others who don’t share their faith” with pragmatic secular arguments, said Hehir.

Predictably, perhaps, one of the vanquished refused to give up the fight. Land’s declaration of victory “is an absurd statement because the majority of the people in this country don’t share most of the values of the so-called religious conservatives,” Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, told NCR. Lynn noted that large majorities of Americans oppose overturning Roe v. Wade and support either marriage rights or civil unions for gay couples.

[Maraya1969]

25. I've never thought of that - good point n/t

[Solly Mack]

26. from firsthand experience, some do

"my mother almost aborted me!" ..so I am against abortion.
"my father wanted me aborted!"...so I am against abortion.

from 2 different people I once worked with...

I also worked with a lady whose mother was raped and it resulted in preganacy...back before abortion was legal and this mother had no options other than "back-alley" types. The mother "chose" to give birth than to risk death from a coat hanger. (Hobsons choice) Tink said her mother suffered depression throughout the pregnancy.

"Tinkerbell" had no shame in her conception (nor should she) and didn't hesitate to tell her story during "girl talk." Though she struggled with the attitudes of others. Those people felt she should be ashamed and keep her "origins" to herself....but those same people were also against abortion. Tinkerbell was also against abortion and often wondered why I, the outspoken pro-choicer, always jumped down the throats of those who said Tink was a baby of shame.


There was no easy answer for her. I wish her mom had had more options...safer ones... but that didn't mean I thought Tink should have never existed. Her mom was able to do what some women could not do. Didn't make her mom better or anything. I can't truthfully say her mom made a choice since she had no real options.

(Yes, her mom could have put her up for adoption, but her mom feared her child would be branded as the product of rape...her mom was raped twice...by the man and by the courts...and she feared her child being treated just as harshly by a society that treated rape victims so poorly)

I think her mom, once her child was born, did what a lot of women have done when faced with no real choices... they raise their child and try to make the best of it...because that's what life and society demands. As best you can, you raise your child. People with options do the same...they raise their child as best they can...but they had options and that makes a big difference. They aren't forced into a life shaped by few options.

That's why options are so important. So people aren't locked into situations because there are limits on their choices. Society can be very cruel and unjust. It demands people behave a certain way, no matter how much that same society limits your choices through the perpetuation of biases and prejudices. Society still demands you behave like your life was charmed. There's not a lot of room for those not fitting into the "ideal"


How old do you have to get before you realise your birth wasn't the hallmark of civilization? Just something I've been curious about for a while now...

[WillieWoohah]

27. My pet theory is that they are scared of aborting the second coming