First they came for Ward Churchill then they came for you

[poe]

It is now acceptable to threaten the lives of antiwar activists, as Tom Frank did recently at the New Republic. As I wrote in a email to the New Republic, “Mr. Frank’s remarks bring to mind Hitler’s Sturmabteilung, or brownshirts, paramilitary goons who not only talked about using physical violence against their opponents but engaged in it with frighteningly sadistic and, eventually, genocidal results. Is it possible the writers and editors of the New Republic wish to emulate the actions of the Nazis, responsible for the murder of millions of innocent people?”We can write this piece off as just another one of the smarmy New Republic 20-something writers getting his jollies slamming the left. We can say that Frank -- his entire piece an exercise in poorly executed humor, ill-written grammar, and awkward phrasing -- just forgot to break his Prozac in half that morning. But there is something far more insidious at work here.

This piece is yet another effort to intimidate and silence people who aren't willing to toe the "party line" espoused by Democrats and Republicans alike that the death of 1,400 US troops and 100,000 Iraqi civilians is somehow justified. Frank's piece is an exercise in hate and intimidation. To be quiet in its face is to give ground in a period when we have precious little to give.
All decent people, whether Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, should denounce the views of Ward Churchill,” Bill Owens, the Republican governor of Colorado, writes in a letter he sent to Isaiah Lechowit, the president of the University of Colorado College Republicans, who will read it to a lynch mob demanding the resignation of Churchill, the latest victim of the Bushzarro world purge of academe. “Not only are his writings outrageous and insupportable, they are at odds with the facts of history.”

Are they really?
Unfortunately, this is the America we now live in. It will only get worse because the Strausscons and their neoliberal allies have more invasions and bombing runs in mind. In order to accomplish this, America will need to be polarized even further and threats of violence will indeed become actual acts of violence, as Hitler’s Sturmabteilung moved from murmured threats in beer halls to kicking in the doors of dissidents and disappearing them into the night.
www.kurtnimmo.com
Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph: Haile Selassie

[zmdem]

1. First they came for those in the WTC (n/t)

[tralfaz]

3. Thank You

I agree

[zmdem]

4. Thank You, and welcome to DU (n/t)

[poe]

6. Wrong again-First they massacred at Wounded Knee then

Of course first they slaughterd the Taino's in the islands but hey let's ignore the past, well anyway here is the short list for you to examine and then deny:The following is a partial list of U.S. military interventions from 1890 to 1999. This guide does NOT include:

Demonstration duty by military police; Mobilizations of the National Guard; Offshore shows of naval strength; Reinforcements of embassy personnel; The use of non-Defense Department personnel (such as the DEA); Military exercises; Non-combat mobilizations; The permanent stationing of armed forces; Covert actions where the U.S. did not play a command and control role; The use of small hostage rescue units; Most uses of proxy troops; U.S. piloting of foreign warplanes; Foreign disaster assistance; Military training and advisory programs not involving direct combat; Civic action programs and many other military activities.

Among sources used, besides news reports, are the Congressional Record (23 June 1969), 180 Landings by the U.S. Marine Corps History Division, Ege & Makhijani in Counterspy (July-Aug. 1982), and Daniel Ellsberg in Protest & Survive. "Instances of Use of United States Forces Abroad, 1798-1993" by Ellen C. Collier of the Library ofCongress Congressional Research Service.

 

SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.

ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.

CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.

HAITI 1891 Troops Black workers revolt on U.S.-claimed Navassa Island defeated.

IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners' strike.

HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.

CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.

NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War.

KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colom
NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War.

KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.

NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.

CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.

PHILIPPINES 1898-1910(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos.

CUBA 1898-1902(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

PUERTO RICO 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.

GUAM 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.

MINNESOTA 1898(-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.

NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War.

KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.

NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto
CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.

PHILIPPINES 1898-1910(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos.

CUBA 1898-1902(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

PUERTO RICO 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.

GUAM 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.

MINNESOTA 1898(-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.

NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.

SAMOA 1899(-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.

NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.

IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.

OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.

PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914-99.

HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.

DOMINICAN REP. 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.

KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.

CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
NICARAGUA 1907 Troops "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.

HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua.

PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.

NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.

HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.

CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.

CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in Havanna.

PANAMA 19l2 Troops Marines land during heated election.

HONDURAS 19l2 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.

NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 20-year occupation, fought guerrillas.

MEXICO 19l3 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.

COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners' strike by Army.

MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists
CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.

PHILIPPINES 1898-1910(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos.

CUBA 1898-1902(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

PUERTO RICO 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.

GUAM 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.

MINNESOTA 1898(-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.

NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.

SAMOA 1899(-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.

NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.

IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.

OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.

PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914-99.

HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.

DOMINICAN REP. 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.

KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.

CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.

WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval,troops, bombing, nuclear Fought Axis for 3 years; Over 200,000 civilian casualties in 1st nuclear strikes.

DETROIT 1943 Troops Army puts down Black rebellion.

IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north (Iranian Azerbaijan).

YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Naval Response to shooting-down of U.S. plane.

URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.

GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.

CHINA 1948-49 Troops Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.

GERMANY 1948 Nuclear threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.

PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.

PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.

KOREA 1950-53 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats U.S.& South Korea fight China & North Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, & vs. China in 1953. Still have bases.

IRAN 1953 Command operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.

VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat Bombs offered to French to use against siege.

GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalizes U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.

EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; marines evacuate foreigners.

LEBANON 1958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels.
IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.

CHINA 1958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.

PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.

VIETNAM 1960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; 1-2 million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in 1968 and 1969.

CUBA 1961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.

GERMANY 1961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.

CUBA 1962 Nuclear threat Naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with USSR.

LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.

PANAMA 1964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.

INDONESIA 1965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA 1966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.

DETROIT 1967 Troops Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.

UNITED STATES 1968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.

CAMBODIA 1969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.

I'll stop there, it goes on as you know.

[zmdem]

8. Thanks for the laundry list

I'm sure that that your anti-American sentiments will help the Democratic party in their bid to regain some control of our government.

[neweurope]

9. If you think that this "laundry list" is Anti-American then count me among

the Anti-Americans, please. I've been wanting to post the list myself for quite some time now. If looking at the - let me say... wrongs - of your country is anti-American then dream on. You and me are not on the same side then

Thanks, Poe :hi:

--------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[zmdem]

11. Nice to be unamerican, I suppose

and glad you admit it. For myself, I am a Democrat and a patriot. If you are opposed to America, then we indeed are on opposite sides.

[ConsAreLiars]

12. So, opposing injustice is Anti-American?

You have a very "interesting" view of things.

[zmdem]

21. Of course not, justice is the hallmark of America

It is why we seperated from Britain, it is why we fought a great civil war, it is why we are a better country today than we were yesterday, and why we will be a better country tomorrow than we are today.

[mmonk]

30. We now are like the England of old

we rebelled against. The American experiment is dead and gone.

[K-W]

31. Yah the civil war was definately a biproduct of justice..

I buy that.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

16. Stay on your side of the pond, monarchist

We don't need any "royalty" over here

[Nihil]

17. FYI

Although the poster to whom you respond has a Union Flag as an avatar,
his location is stated as Oregon, USA and he has repeated that he is
"patriotically" supporting the US view.

Please save the "monarchist" taunts for a battle that involves them.

(Besides, you already have your own "royalty" in King George the Turd! :hi: )

[Ani Yun Wiya]

20. I have NO kings.

and if the blighter wants to wave a Union Jack,
his locale is hardly relevant.

[zmdem]

22. Monarchist ?

Surely you jest. We got rid of that in the late 18th century.

[neweurope]

19. It's not "nice" to be anti-American - it kind of suggests itself.. you see

I've been knowing this list for years.

I'm a Patriot myself and I see nothing wrong with patriotism. As long as it's the kind of patriotism that criticizes where my country goes wrong. Blind patriotism is dumb and dangerous. Nothing more stupid and dangerous - and open to be exploited by always the wrong people - than "my country right or wrong".


--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

14. Don't confuse the American gov't (genocidal) with the people (clueless).

That is a common mistake because we are raised on lies. We are indoctrinated with the idea that the gov't represents us, that the US is a democracy, that there are such thing as free markets.

Nope. Criticising the US government IS criticising the enemies of the American people.

[zmdem]

23. Your thoughts on democracy

If the people are clueless, then republican, (democratic), government is impossible. That being the case, then we would need a different form of government. Are you suggesting that we abandon the great experiment ? Should we institute a facism or communism perhaps ? Maybe just a plain old fashioned monarchy.

Personally, I'd prefer to trust the fallible judgemnet of my fellow citizens.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

15. THANK YOU POE

I STAND WITH YOU...

[Luminous Animal]

7. I'm not sure what you mean?

It seems as though you are trying to turn that quote on its head. It specifically refers to suppression by government, or government agents, and sympathizers who seek to quash dissident voices and then the dissidents themselves.

Ward Churchill's meaning is quite clear, those that "worked" in the World Trade Center (that is the "technocrats") contributed to the spread of U.S. imperialsim. We didn't wind up dominating the globe by being nice guys or playing with nice guys. We didn't end up consuming most of the world's resources by asking pretty please. We've gained our power through the misery of millions and many of the people who worked for the companies that inhabited the WTC worked very hard to maintain that status quo.

This does not mean that their deaths were not a personal or national tragedy. It means that, for those who perceive that U.S. imperialistic muscle is not just military but economic, as well, then the WTC was a legitimate target.

If one is to recognize U.S. imperialist aims, one must also recognize the capitalist infrastructure that is, in effect, the goon squad that enforces those aims.

[zmdem]

10. I don't do nuance

We were attacked on 9/11. 3000 people, Americans and foreigners died on that day. I want our enemies dead. If Churchill cares to sympathisize with them, I say send him to them. Frankly, I think they would happily cut his throat and offer up the video for the enjoyment of those who wish America ill.

Forget about your theories of American imperialism, etc. Why do you think the Democratic party is marginalised ? No political party can expect to have power that sympathasizes with its countries enemies.

[Luminous Animal]

13. Hmmm...

Where and when does Churchill sympathize with them? Understanding the motives of your "enemy" is usually the first step in solving the problem. IF, you want to solve it, that is.

Not surprisingly though, you wish the same on Churchill, that the 9/11 attackers wished on the U.S.

And I am certainly not going to forget about my theories of U.S. imperialism until someone gives me a good reason to do so. All you are giving me is empty imperialistic clichés.

[zmdem]

25. Understanding the enemy

is valuable. It is best done after they are dead and/or defeated. Like the communists, fascists, British, French, Mexicans or in the present case Muslim terrorists.

Better to examine the corpse when it is not your own.

[neweurope]

18. People who "don't do nuance" are dangerous. Black-and-white-

thinking is always dangerous. Bush thinks that way.

Yes, the twin towers were attacked. That had a reason. Understanding that reason is the first step to ensure that nothing of the kind ever happens again. And the Democratic party is not "marginalized" as you say (which I don't believe anyway) because they "sympathize with its countrys enemies" but because the Bushistas control the media.

How did you manage to stay on this board so long?


---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. By the way, do "marginalized" parties get 48% of the vote? (nt)

[jdots]

24. you have some reading to do skippy

but you won't because it might be too much of a stretch .

[zmdem]

26. What would you suggest I read ? (n/t)

[tkmorris]

28. I would suggest.......

for starters....... A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn.

And the above posters are correct. Black and white thinking is dangerous. Anyone who equates patriotism with "my country is right in all things just because it is my country" is a damned fool. I won't put that shoe on your foot; only you can decide if it fits.

You can kill everyone responsible for the WTC affair. I'd rather see them arrested and tried, but that's just me. I believe in justice, not lynch mobs, even if the mobs all wear green. But if you don't understand what motivated them to do it you will simply have to face a new version of them, again and again.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. Theres' A Difference Betwen Discerning The Motoves Of The Terrorists

And Claiming Their Victims Had It Coming As Ward Churchill so vilely suggested...


I saw the jerk on CBS News last night...He really seemed to be happy with all the adverse publicity...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. "Not doing nuance" is the Way of the Right Wing. (nt)

[Luminous Animal]

2. That is a wonderful response.

Do you mind if I quote it in full elsewhere? I wiould attribute it and provide a link.

[poe]

5. Quote any and all

I have been in contact with people who know the man, i don't, and the entire episode is sickening, but to be expected. this isn't just a recent occurence he has been targeted for a long time as have/are many and any voices who step outside the founding father fairy tale america does good mythology. if you have a few ears hearing you then you are really in the crosshairs.
the rabid right's response is to be expected but the pathetic response from sound byte believers and keyboard activists on the "left?" is disturbing. look at the big picture folks. oh yea and he is right people do push back.
Ya Basta!

[Luminous Animal]

27. One down....

more to go.

Isn't anyone the tiniest bit suspicious that Ward is being harassed now and probably fired over an article that he wrote on 9/12/01?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1210973

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Ward Churchill Has A Right To Say The 9-11 Victims Had It Coming

And I Have A Right To Say He's A Cowardly Prick For Saying It...

[K-W]

33. That isnt what he said.

He said that America had it coming because our government does acts of equal immorality in our name.

His point about the people in the towers was seperate but related. He was arguing that because of the government infrastructure in the building, it would qualify for targetting according to US stanards. So if it were and Iraqi building, we would have bombed it and called all the rest of the people who died collatteral damage.

He put the attack in global and historical context and is getting attacked for it.

He was against the attack just as he is against the US attacking others. He is just equating the two.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Orwell

" Some ideas are so bizarre only an intellectual could believe them."


A lot of those people in the WTC were working stiffs not Tom Wolfe's "masters of the universe"...


They were all innocents in the WTC and just because a schmuck with a high IQ said they weren't doesn't make them guilty...

[K-W]

36. You misunderstand his point .

He was arguing using the same logic that the US uses to justify killing innocent people to prove that our logic is wrong not that killing innocent people is right.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. He Called The People In the Buildings Little Eichmans....

The only paralell I could see is if Bush* orderd the bombing of the Petronas Towers...