I wonder what the founding fathers would think of the state of our union?

[mopaul]

i doubt they'd even recognize it as the united states of america.

[Nite Owl]

1. I feel quite an affinity

with them right now. The Revolutionary War was not popular but their ideals won then and we need to make them win now.

[havocmom]

2. They would be furious seeing that we forgot democracy is NOT

a spectator sport. They would be ashamed to see we have allowed the nation to be subverted by common criminals, and such classless thugs too.

I galls me how so many citizens wave flags and subscribe to the jingoism, thinking THAT is patriotism, love of country and somehow noble. It infuriates that we so dishonor the sacrifices of true heroes and patriots with the rubbish we accept as honorable and praiseworthy today.

It isn't a democracy unless the citizens participate in a thoughtful manner. It's all thrown away if we do not shoulder our responsibilities.

When I hear people say things like "Somebody needs to do something about..." I wanna shake them til their teeth rattle. In a democracy, 'somebody' HAS to be US! When we duck responsibility, we abdicate power and authority. The Republic fails.

[mikehiggins]

3. They would be wondering why we bothered replacing one

King George with another.

[karlrschneider]

5. Good answer.

:eyes:

[Cleita]

4. So has the Constitution shown up on Ebay yet?

Our government doesn't seem to need it anymore.

[wadestock]

6. DUTY, HONOR, RESPECT

has been flushed down the toilet.

This is all one big sorrow filled bad business deal, sold through greed, corruption, and distortion.

[bush_is_wacko]

7. Well, I am a descendant of Oliver Ellsworth and I'll be spinning in my

grave long after the impeachment of GWB! My entire family is OUTRAGED! You will find that MOST of the descendants of the founding fathers and the president's and great thinkers of this countries past are FURIOUS!

Oliver Ellsworth...one of the original 5 framers of the Declaration of Independence, 3rd Supreme Court Justice of the United States, credited with the words "United States," out of the country for the signing of Declaration of Independence.

[woodsprite]

8. I was just thinking tonight

that we have no one near the quality of the people who were our founding fathers. I mean, the brain power just isn't there, if ya' know what I mean ;) I was reading the words of Voltaire, Descartes, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Hobbes, and Locke tonight (helping my daughter with a paper). And some of their quotes really hit home regarding the situation today. I told her I think we're screwed because all the great people who were our salvation at the birth of this nation are dead. And this country is still essentially a baby! Unfortunately, I don't think this crap we're being fed is just "growing pains".

[bush_is_wacko]

10. I agree, it's not just growing pains...These nut cases have been attempting

this takeover throughout our history. Research the history of the real powerhouses in Washington and you will find that they ALL got rich on the backs of the poor and middle-class. Class warfare has ALWAYS gone on, it has just never before in history been so rampant. These people hate what America stands for. They have been thwarted many times before, but they were never so "invasive" before. America is infested with rodents. Purging them is not going to be an easy task!

Understand, Europe (Specifically England) has already evolved into what these elitist want us to become. You get nowhere in England without a pedigree. This is what our New World Order will look like. Don't be fooled by anything these people say or do. They have no affection for American patriotism. They want it abolished.

[NewJeffCT]

20. we have plenty of quality & intellect these days

However, the people that have the intellect and quality these days are minimized as being out of touch elitists who aren't in touch with the common man. Whereas once people of great eduction were respected, now they are not. Greed is good these days, and somebody trying to do things for the betterment of all Americans instead of just themselves is looked upon as a bit strange by the so-called "mainstream"...

[zmdem]

9. Depends on which founder you asked

On the whole Jefferson and Madison would be appalled with the extent that the federal government has aggrandized power to itself, especially since the FDR era. Hamilton would probably approve.

[davsand]

11. Interesting article about this subject in The Nation.

Our Godless Constitution

WASHINGTON, Feb. 6, 2005

"(The Nation) This column from The Nation was written by Brooke Allen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to believe that George Bush has ever read the works of George Orwell, but he seems, somehow, to have grasped a few Orwellian precepts. The lesson the President has learned best -- and certainly the one that has been the most useful to him -- is the axiom that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. One of his Administration's current favorites is the whopper about America having been founded on Christian principles. Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ones. God only entered the picture as a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent.

Our Constitution makes no mention whatever of God. The omission was too obvious to have been anything but deliberate, in spite of Alexander Hamilton's flippant responses when asked about it: According to one account, he said that the new nation was not in need of "foreign aid"; according to another, he simply said "we forgot." But as Hamilton's biographer Ron Chernow points out, Hamilton never forgot anything important..."

Entire article here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/04/opinion/main671823.shtml

I think every one of them would be pissed off...


Laura

[simcha_6]

12. I'd like to think they would be angry...

However, who can be sured. Surely they would be disappointed with the religiosity of our government and the power wielded by religious extremists, and I expect they'd think our politicians were pathetic. But some of the things they did? These are the guys, remember, who had slaves (at least in Jefferson's case). These were all rich white guys. Jefferson was of the elite of the South. And who presided over the U.S. in its first years? Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Adams. Founding fathers and one's son. The elite. When the next president, Andrew Jackson, came in, he held a big party for ordinary people and many political pundits were appalled. They thought it was the rule of the mob. I'm not sure the founding fathers would approve of our more progressive programs. Social security? Maybe, maybe not. Equal rights for women and all races? Doubtful.

Of course, I don't know if they could have fathomed the U.S.'s position in the world now. SO in foreign policy, I don't know what they'd think.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi simcha_6!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Iggytop]

13. In one respect they would be happy that our country has become so big.

On the other , well I think you now whats on the other :-(((

[Telly Savalas]

14. Seeing as women and non-landowners vote and slavery has been abolished...

things probably do look a bit different.

[mopaul]

16. it's true, they weren't perfect people

slave owners, billioinaires by today's standards, all white, all educated, and all European. but like many other European nations at the time, including France, trying out revolutionary new concepts and attempting to create a better world.

they were not gods, but mere humans. i wonder what they'd think of bush?

[Telly Savalas]

17. Undoubtably they'd think he's a jackass

I was just arguing that we shouldn't idolize our "Founding Fathers", although I agree that they deserve respect for getting the ball rolling for our nation.

[LizW]

15. You haven't heard?

The collective spinning in graves is affecting the rotation of the earth.

[BillZBubb]

19. They would ALL be appalled

What would bother them the most is the Military/Industrial/Security state we've become. They would also question our actions in foreign matters.

They were dead set against a large standing military. They knew from history the dangers that represented. They would view the secrecy used by the government as a direct assault on liberty.

[bluedog]

21. what has the

phrase....."WE THE PEOPLE" become!!!...................get out there Americans and fight for which we have put into words, on paper, your right to YOUR country..................stop the "EVIL" that currently leads this once Great Nation..........

Remember...........they are your employees.....................STOP THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PurityOfEssence]

22. Hamilton would dig it

He'd feel very at home in present-day America, as long as he had a reasonable amount of money. Since he was a sharp guy and very driven, he probably would.

For all of his talents and achievements, I never did like him much.

[bajamary]

23. First they'd weep, then they'd apply the law..

First they'd weep, then they'd throw the bastards out by actually applying our laws. What a bold thought for our current crop of politicians. There are many reasons why our founding fathers, and mothers, created the 3 branches of government. We need to apply and act with these legal tools.

So the Founding Fathers would impeach, and then remove, GW Bush from office for illegal use of Congressionally allocated funds.

Then they would also prosecute, and convict, the others who assisted in this fraudulent use of the congressionally allocated funds for the the war in Afghanistan for the secret planning of their war in Iraq.

Our Founding Fathers would prosecute the president and the neocons, who somehow think they know what's "best" for we the people. These folks created an illegal secret government which illegally used our funds for their personal war. Could they know "best" because "God talks" to GW?

Our Founding Fathers would recognize that thought and all of this behavior as that very stuff they fled; the corrupt kings, queens and governments that repressed freedom and liberty of all beacuse "God talked to them".

Do something.

Work for Peace and Justice.