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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 11:43 PM
Original message
Democratic values in relation to religious teachings and moral values.
Dr. Robin Meyers' Speech to Students at Oklahoma University**

As some of you know, I am minister of Mayflower Congregational Church in
Oklahoma City, and Open and Affirming, Peace and Justice church in
northwest Oklahoma City, and professor of Rhetoric at Oklahoma City
University. But you would most likely have encountered me on the pages
of the Oklahoma Gazette, where I have been a columnist for six years,
and hold the record for the most number of angry letters to the editor.

Tonight, I join the ranks of those who are angry, because I have watched
as the faith I love has been taken over by fundamentalists who claim to
speak for Jesus, but whose actions are anything but Christian.

We've heard a lot lately about so-called "moral values" as having swung
the election to President Bush. Well, I'm a great believer in moral
values, but we need to have a discussion, all over this country, about
exactly what constitutes a moral value - I mean, what are we talking
about? Because we don't get to make them up as we go along, especially
not if we are people of faith. We have an inherited tradition of what
is right and wrong, and moral is as moral does.

Let me give you just a few of the reasons why I take issue with those in
power who claim moral values are on their side:

a. When you start a war on false pretenses, and then act as if your
deceptions are justified because you are doing God's will, and that your
critics are either unpatriotic or lacking in faith, there are some of us
who have given our lives to teaching and preaching the faith who believe
that this is not only not moral, but immoral.
b. When you live in a country that has established international rules
for waging a just war, build the United Nations on your own soil to
enforce them, and then arrogantly break the very rules you set down for
the rest of the world, you are doing something immoral.

c. When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your life, and yet fail to
acknowledge that your policies ignore his essential teaching, or turn
them on their head (you know, Sermon on the Mount, stuff like that we
must never return to violence for violence and that those who live by
the sword will die by the sword), you are doing something immoral.

d. When you act as if the lives of Iraqi civilians are not as important
as the lives of American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you
are doing something immoral.

e. When you find a way to avoid combat in Vietnam, and then question the
patriotism of someone who volunteered to fight, and came home a hero,
you are doing something immoral.

f. When you ignore the fundamental teachings of the gospel, which says
that the way the strong treat the weak is the ultimate ethical test, by
giving tax breaks to the wealthiest among us so the strong will get
stronger and the weak will get weaker, you are doing something immoral.

g. When you wink at the torture of prisoners, and deprive so-called
"enemy combatants" of the rules of the Geneva Convention, which your own
country helped to establish and insists that other countries follow, you
are doing something immoral.

h. When you claim that the world can be divided up into the good guys
and the evil doers, slice up your own nation into those who are with
you, or with the terrorists - and then launch a war which enriches your
own friends and seizes control of the oil to which we are addicted -
instead of helping us to kick the habit, you are doing something
immoral.

i. When you fail to veto a single spending bill, but ask us to pay for a
war with no exit strategy and no end in sight, creating an enormous
deficit that hangs like a great millstone around the necks of our
children, you are doing something immoral.

j. When you cause most of the rest of the world to hate a country that
was once the most loved country in the world, and act like it doesn't
matter what others think of us, only what God thinks of you, you have
done something immoral.

k. When you use hatred of homosexuals as a wedge issue to turn out
record numbers of evangelical voters, and use the Constitution as a tool
of discrimination, you are doing something immoral.

l. When you favor the death penalty, and yet claim to be a follower of
Jesus, who said an eye for an eye was the old way, not the way of the
kingdom, you are doing something immoral.

m. When you dismantle countless environmental laws designed to protect
the earth which is God's gift to us all, so that the corporations that
bought you and paid for your favors will make higher profits while our
children breathe dirty air and live in a toxic world, you have done
something immoral. The earth belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton.

n. When you claim that our God is bigger than their God, and that our
killing is righteous, while theirs is evil, we have begun to resemble
the enemy we claim to be fighting, and that is immoral. We have met the
enemy, and the enemy is us.

o. When you tell people that you intend to run and govern as a
"compassionate conservative," using the word which is the essence of all
religious faiths - compassion - and then show no compassion for anyone
who disagrees with you, and no patience with those who cry to you for
help, you are doing something immoral.

p. When you talk about Jesus constantly, who was a healer of the sick,
but do nothing to make sure that anyone who is sick can go to see a
doctor, even if she doesn't have a penny in her pocket, you are doing
something immoral.

q. When you put judges on the bench who are racist, and will set women
back a hundred years, and when you surround yourself with preachers who
say gays ought to be killed, you are doing something immoral.

I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm a Christian, I must be a
supporter of President Bush, or that I favor civil rights and gay rights
I must not be a person of faith. I'm tired of people saying that I
can't support the troops but oppose the war. I heard that when I was
your age - when the Vietnam war was raging. We knew that that war was
wrong, and you know that this war is wrong - the only question is how
many people are going to die before these make-believe Christians are
removed from power?

This country is bankrupt. The war is morally bankrupt. The claim of
this administration to be Christian is bankrupt. And the only people
who can turn things around are people like you - young people who are
just beginning to wake up t owhatishappeningtothem. It'syour country to
take back. It's your faith to take back. It's your future to take
back.

Don't be afraid to speak out. Don't back down when your friends begin
to tell you that the cause is righteous and that the flag should be
wrapped around the cross, while the rest of us keep our mouths shut.
Real Christians take chances for peace. So do Real Jews, and Real
Muslims, and Real Hindus, and Real Buddhists - so do all the faith
traditions of the world at their heart believe one thing: life is
precious.

Every human being is precious. Arrogance is the opposite of faith.
Greed is the opposite of charity. And believing that one has never made
a mistake is the mark of a deluded man, not a man of faith.

And war - war is the greatest failure of the human race - and thus the
greatest failure of faith. There's an old rock song, whose lyrics say
it all: "War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing."

And what is the dream of the prophets? That we should study war no
more, that we should beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into
pruning hooks. Who would Jesus bomb, indeed? How many wars does it
take to know that too many people have died? What if they gave a war
and nobody came? Maybe one day we will find out.

A Liberal

"...if by a liberal they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind,
someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who
cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing,
their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, their civil liberties -
if that is what they mean by a 'liberal' then I am proud to be a
liberal." -President John F. Kennedy, 1960
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. God, if people would only look at it that way.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am glad we "Faith Based Progressives" are regaining our voice
MLK Jr was a Minister --- and he was the very definition of a Progressive or Liberal or whatever Rove has driven us to calling ourselves.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nice speech. Do you happen to have a link? I want to post it
to some other discussion boards and would like to be able to cite the source.

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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Link
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Thanks! N/T
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for sharing that with us.
What can I say - everyone who passes through here should read that - all of it.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Believe me, It was totally my pleasure - wish more thought like you
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. "Real Christians take chances for peace." How profound!
Remember this- TRUTH is our most powerful weapon! I wish I could have been there to hear him speak! What a wise and courageous man!
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Your words brought tears to my eyes.
"Truth is our most powerful weapon."
That about says it all. Say it again.
Love,
John
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Truth is our most powerful weapon.
Without TRUTH, they are powerless. Peace, John!
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LDS Jock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. recommended for greatest page
well said :toast:
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. copied, pasted and forwarded by email to a large number of
like minded individuals, who I suspect will forward it on to others
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. God bless you . It sure touched my heart over and over and over...
Funny how truth rings a song in your heart, ain't it?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. BBJ- I think we need to get this printed around the country.
What do you think about firing it off as a letter to the editor? I was thinking maybe the NYT, Wash. Post...and then smaller, local papers all over this country! This is a real eye-opener for those who just need a lucid, rational presentation. This is it! What do you think?
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Couldn't agree with you more. I have had lots of positive feedback
even from Republican friends.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. I plan on getting a lot of mileage out of this.
The simple truth in these words expresses the meaning of Christianity beautifully.

I thank you for posting this. People need to understand that a real Christian doesn’t embrace the broken values that the Republicans exploit.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Me too! That's for sure. It sums it up eloquently.
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Really?
Each time I watch Christian TV or listen to CHristian radio, it's the opposite. What made fundies so mad even at other Christians? Buddhists disagree but we agree that we're people first, then Buddhists, then agrueing again.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Fundies leaders are hate mongers.
They rule their people by exploiting the Bible and invoking fear and hate in their followers. They single out passages of the bible that they can twist to fit "their" message. The people they prey on are not free thinkers nor do they have a true understanding of what Jesus' message was. That's the impression of them I have.

In my understanding Jesus was a loving, giving and caring person. He fought against most of what the fundies hold dear. I've never understood how they can profess to be Christian and thrive on fear and hate. I've often wondered if that is really what they think it means to be "Christ like".

They do seem to hate other Christians, I agree with you. I will guess it's because they dislike anyone who's not subject to their manipulations. I also imagine it's an effective tool for keeping their flock from wandering off to a different church.

I don't believe the Christian community as a whole should be persecuted for the ravings of the fundies. I know many kind, loving and gentle people who are Christians. They try to live their lives as examples of goodness. They're nothing like the fundies.
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Stand
Christians that do as Jesus taught really need to fight the fundies and get Christianity back. While I tend to lump all CHristians together, some people are very anti-Christian due to the fundie leaders. Good Christians need to unite and combat fundies. Think Voltron.
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CAG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. Here in Oklahoma,
I get to read Dr. Meyer's collumns in the weekly independent newspaper, the Gazette. He's on target most of the time.

The christian right, who have a stranglehold on everything here, would have you think he is a godless stalinist pig, of course. Its amazing how the christian right can totally ignore the teachings of Jesus Christ, and blast someone for merely trying to promote Jesus' primary messages of love for one another.
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Jokinomx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. I wish I could have been there. A Powerful piece.... one
that every American should read. Thank you so much for sharing. I will be making sure everyone know has an opportunity to read this.

:toast:
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. Great Speech
Good points. I personally can't figure out why so many Christians see George Bush as moral. This speech shows why he is not.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I agree.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. So BBJ- Where do you think we should send this?
How do you think we can get the most exposure? Just let me know what I can do to help! You can e-mail me if you'd like to go over the details!
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm a native Okie
Edited on Mon Feb-14-05 11:42 PM by CornField
This is the first time in a *very* long time that I've been proud to announce it.

I left the Christian faith several years ago, but my heart still breaks when I hear people like Buchanan or Robertson or Reed warping the faith of my parents into something ugly and shameful. Still, I cannot go back into that community and fix the problems there. Only other Christians can reclaim their faith. I'm very grateful to see that at least a few are standing up and doing just that.

BTW... when did the Gazette start publishing? When I left Oklahoma (following the OKC bombing) I think the only newspaper in OKC was the Daily Oklahoman.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. That is just fabulous, thank you so much for posting it, and have
you sent this to Dr. Dean?

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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. Makes this liberal Christian proud.
I'd love to print out flyers of this, and distribute them at my wife's fundy church.
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