Vetwife: I'm sorry to hear you're leaving and think you should reconsider.

[mogster]

The reason I went on the Internet and logged onto the virtual America was the Abu Ghraib pictures.
I'm sorry to say that, because there was a certain event some years before that which should have been the reason - if one gets right down to it.

In the beginning I just wanted to hurt you all, yell at you. There was no liberals or conservatives, just Americans, manifested in the horrible pictures of young boys and girls doing ... what they did.
And of course topping it all: the incredible human turn-off called George W. Bush.

You can read my first post here, mercilessly cut in half by the forum software, increasing my feeling of rejection and unwelcome-ness:
http://www.motherjones.com/cgi-bin/WebX?128@38.A6reaQwwaVu.3@.ee9cb2a

My picture of America at the time was a superficial one--of a country far away gone berserk on nationalism and hippocrisy, and I honestly tell you: the quality and openmindedness of boards like DU changed that picture, took away the lingering impression left by the torture and reinstated the image of Americans as a great people.

Why? Because I discovered the respect for the common law among you, and that moral still was present. And I'm talking about real moral, the one that has nothing to do with nudity and everything to do with how you treat other people.

The Abu Ghraib pictures showed a lack of moral, a breakup of common law and disrespect for every institutionalized humanitarian value slowly and painfully negotiated since WWII.
But it wasn't the troops fault, and thanks to places like this I was able to find that out.

I understand that it is difficult to watch people on a board throw snide comments that appears to be unfair, especially as the war is closer to some than others. We are all pampered by half a century of peace at home--this doesn't apply to Americans only, but also here in Europe.
We live in peace. We utter expressions about war lacking the experience of what war really is, and the sacrifices that are made every day in terms of fear for loved ones, the toll of injuries and finally; the loss of lives.
This is what we have become, and not knowing what war is shows that we have succeeded to some extent to achieve the goal of the previous generations. They fought the nazi's to ensure peace and stability instituted by common law and respect. And to make war experience a thing of the past.
Sadly, this also makes it easier for those without respect to start new wars. The freeloaders, easygoers and bandits that prey on every society, looking for an easy buck without noticing the smell of death.

This is NOT the quality of the people at DU.

If you want to defend the troops, you should ally yourself with the ones asking questions wether a war is just or not.
Like John Kerry, because the strongest proof of his character quality was ever his willingness to fight for his country AND his willingness to ask questions about it afterwards.
Just as the many vets here at DU, he has the experience of what war really means and the guts and persistence to do something about it.

As opposed to the neocons, with their quick slogans like 'If one soldier dies, that's one too many' and the 'Support the troops'- bumper stickers. Cheap and superficial, intended to sell the war as a glorified moment in history even before it has ended.
Politics...
And politics it is, because the way they have politicized the US Army and turned it into a partisan factor to further their means is ABHORRANT! The break-up of moral and subsequent atrocities is a result of policy from above, not happenstance and coincidence, and with every day that passes tha policy drags the name and reputation of the American military further down into the mud.

It is in that direction you should vent your anger, not at the people at DU--with or without war experience--that's so upset about this that they don't know which foot to stand on.

Understand me right, I think your post was good, and it's certainly just to remind us all that people are dying, and deserves respect for their service.

But don't go away, will ya? :-)

[benburch]

1. I second all of the above.

And would miss you.

[mogster]

10. Thanks for answering, all of you

I'm not at all up to the latest events at DU! :-o

Was Vetwife some kinda undercover something? I could have sworn she was genuine material.

Well, anyhow ;-)

Thanks for receiving my America-bashing and thoughts thereof in such open spirit.

[pnutchuck]

2. Thanks for the post

I'm an American living in Paris. I left the country shortly after the WTC attacks because I too felt betrayed by Americans. The events leading to Bush's non-election, then the attacks on our soil made me wonder what the hell I was doing in a country full of blind sheeple.

I didn't discover the DU until after I had come home for the second Bush non-election and the subsequent theft. I returned to Paris disheartened and disappointed once again in my countrymen. My mother, who was very politically active with Dean in the primaries, then Kerry in the elections sent me a thread from the DU trying to console me to the fact that not all Americans were idiots and that there were many more of us who felt disenfranchised than I had thought. Needless to say, I was hooked. There are so many helpful and intelligent people here willing to share, listen, and even argue for what they believe in and the general consensus is basic human rights.

Thanks for so articulately stating my sentiments as well. DU has showed me far more Americans that I can be proud to call my countrymen, than ones that I abhor.

:toast:

[G_j]

3. thanks for your honesty

I think you reflect an excruciating anxiety that many of us here share. It is a truly terrible time for America. We so desperately want the violence and death to stop!

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

4. Mogster, thank you for writing such an honest and prolific post.

DU has become a sanctuary of sorts for me; when everything in the world, politically speaking, is crashing about me and I feel like I'm going to go nutso, DU is the one place I can "come home to" to get some comfort. It's here that I get the feeling that, no Val, you're not crazy. There ARE sane people out there, and not everyone has partaken of the proverbial Koolaid. You know what I mean?

[Solly Mack]

5. The best posts come from the heart

Thank you for sharing your heart with us.

[texanshatingbush]

6. Great post - the reason we all wound up at DU

You have concisely rendered a picture of the response many of us have had to the depressing events of the new 21st century.

But you have also reminded us WHY the 2004 election was NOT a mandate--it was a squeaker, because 49% of the country voted AGAINST Bush, the policies he is promulgating, and the values he is espousing.

DU is a place of refuge for many of that 49%--a place where we can vent, where we can be assured that we are not alone in our opinions, and a place where we can feel hopeful and constructive by developing new ideas/approaches to take back the real America--land of the free and home of the brave, where the buffalo roam and the sky is not cloudy all day.

So thanks for reminding us of what we are and where we need to head our course.

[diamond14]

7. It's GOOD when the arrogant 'see MY picture', dissing DU on the way out

leave.....this board is much better when those who are delusional, arrogant, and spend most of their time here just INSULTING DUers....just LEAVE....


glad to see those go....too bad they have to make such a BIG DEAL about leaving....

[Walt Starr]

8. There is a website that has as its reason for existance the "moling" of DU

That site is the SOURCE of the vet bashing. And they'll be yucking it up in private messages to each other that they got vetwife to leave DU over their bullshit. Especially since vetwife posts at that other site, too.

This is their goal and they are the ones bashing troops and vets.

[UTUSN]

9. That Said, I'm One Vet Who Doesn't Want to Be Thanked

To Vetwife:

As my hero Charlie RANGEL says, minorities are over-represented in the military because of economic circumstances. In many instances it is a form of indentured servitude, trading some years of one's life for future educational and employment benefits---with the gamble, that is, that one makes it.

As far as military bashing goes, I haven't seen much here, overtly. It's no secret that older Libs grounded in the anti-Vietnam era DID and DO have an anti-military bias ---AND IGNORANCE. It's no secret that CLINTON White House staffers treated military staff with contempt.

That said, my personal preference would be to continue seeing you, Vetwife, here. As far as your commitment and activism go, you are a gem. That said, I would hope that, outside DU (and the Dem party?), you would hold your fire about us and not give aid to our common enemies. If you have to choose between the occasional person who uses the phrase "baby-killers" and the Shrubbites, who would you want to win? I submit that that is the choice in its starkest form.

We are a conglomeration of many sub-groups---civil rights, social justice, labor, etc. Some of the sub-groups might have only a couple of things in common and not show much understanding of some other groups. I myself have been PC-slapped by individuals from a few DIFFERENT sub-groups. I don't believe something can be changed by abandoning it, only from within. Peace be to this house.