Soldiers speaking at churches and using them for Iraq propaganda?

[lostnfound]

At least 2 churches in Houston had speakers from the US military come to talk about Iraq. I happened to hear from 2 different people at work about how some military officer had come to speak at the church about Iraq. They said things like this:

*Things are going great in Iraq. The US media is not telling the truth about it.
*The only people shooting at us were foreigners from Syria or Jordan (?), not Iraqis. The Iraqis are all really happy that we were there and happy that we are bringing them freedom and democracy.
*The bullets were flying and kicking the dirt up on me as I was running, so I knew that God was with us.

Did anyone else hear similar stories? If so, try to find out what churches. I am highly suspicious that there is a propaganda outreach going on, to shore up Bush's base on the war, to stop reality from leaking in to their little fantasy world. If so, I think it's worth digging into it and finding if there is a story there.

I think most people listening to these talks would never guess that it was Pentagon propaganda; rather, they think that 'their pastor just happens to know this man and invited him to come update us on the progress of the war'. Just knowing that there were 4000 such visits last weekend (for example, if it were true) would be eye-opening.

[havocmom]

1. Were they in uniform?

Anyone real familar with the Hatch Act know if this is OK or illegal?

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Not the Hatch Act, but IRS...

regulations about political campaigning by churches and other nonprofits. This may be revolting to some of us, but it is entirely legal as long as they don't campaign for a candidate.

If they were not allowed to have war rallies, we would probably not be allowed to have peace rallies.

[havocmom]

13. Hatch Act limits what military personnel can say/do in their official

capacity as a member of the Armed Forces. They cannot engage in certain political activities as military or in uniform is my understanding.

Of course, it is also supposed to prevent things like Armed Forces Radio from engaging in any sort of political activities, but they broadcast Rush! Write Congress and ask how come Rush, O'Rielly and such are on Armed Forces Radio but Randi Rhodes isn't.

[lynne]

2. My church -

- has had church members in the military who have returned from Afghanistan and/or Iraq speak to the congregation if they wished to do so. They usually thank the members for their support and prayers, tell about their personal experiences a bit, etc.

I haven't a clue as to who was speaking in Houston but it's hardly unusual for church members, relatives of members or community friends to address the congregation upon a safe return home.

The Hatch Act is mostly about campaigning. You can find it here: http://www.osc.gov/ha_fed.htm#agencies. Doesn't appear to be any conflict of interest from what I'm reading.

(edited to add Hatch Act URL)

[Heyo]

3. Well....

*Things are going great in Iraq. The US media is not telling the truth about it.

Actually, I have never heard from or met anyone coming back from Iraq who did NOT say that.

*The only people shooting at us were foreigners from Syria or Jordan (?), not Iraqis. The Iraqis are all really happy that we were there and happy that we are bringing them freedom and democracy.

They are the ones who deal with the situation every day, they would know.

*The bullets were flying and kicking the dirt up on me as I was running, so I knew that God was with us.

They were in a CHURCH.

Heyo

[mwb970]

5. So it's just a concidence that their points...

line up exactly with Bush's talking points? Hmm. You seem awfully trusting to me.

[Heyo]

6. You're saying that...

...the orders for what they were supposed to say when they visited a local church came right from the government?

:tinfoilhat:

Heyo

[mwb970]

10. They don't need orders, they know what to say.

Let's just take this sentence:

The Iraqis are all really happy that we were there and happy that we are bringing them freedom and democracy.

Really? After laboriously searching the Web for about 10 seconds, I found this:

Secondly, there is public opinion. A recent poll by Zogby International found that 82% of Sunnis and 69% of the majority Shi'ites want a US withdrawal "either immediately or after an elected government is in place". (2/19/05)
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GB19Ak03.html

How can these large percentages of Iraqis want us to leave if they are so "happy that we were there"? Explain please.

[Heyo]

11. read your reply..

My opinion, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

short response for now.. heading to dinner and bookstore, but will elaborate sometime tonight.

remember, everybody's different, people see things differently...

:toast:

Heyo

[manic expression]

14. Well, now...

It is crap for a soldier to say that the media is "not telling the truth". EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN REPORTER NOT IN THE GREEN ZONE IS EMBEDDED! They see things solely from the US perspective for crying out loud! I'd like to know exactly how things are going "great" in Iraq. If you look at any source, it is plain to see how horribly EVERYTHING is going there.

I doubt the soldiers could remotely discern a Syrian or a Jordanian from an Iraqi (or an Arab from a Kurd or Assyrian, for that matter), and even if they could, I highly doubt that they could find out who shoots at them and then disappears. This alone shows how delusional their views are. It takes pure common sense to see that this is BS. I also find it hard to believe that ordinary Iraqis would tell an armed soldier who just happens part of an occupying force that they disagree with them being there. Can you even imagine that? And to think that we are bringing them "freedom and democracy"...the notion is patently ridiculous.

[Wright Patman]

4. I have discovered I am a latent Quaker

because of the repeated patriotic warmongering rallies since 9-11 held at the local Baptist church I used to attend. It is sad that the teachings of Jesus Christ have once again been perverted in the service of the dark side.

May God have mercy on this country. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if He didn't, though. If you want to delve into Book of Revelation theology, it is the U.S. government which is behaving like the endtime Beast.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. It's happening all over the country...

and it is undoubtedly part of a a Pentagon outreach program to get support from local churches so moved to support militarism.

I've heard of weapons displays set up in the church parking lots, recruiting stands, military regalia set up on the altar, and all sorts of things a lot of us "other" Christians find reprehensible.

Alas, I suppose this is part of the price of freedom.

We don't see much of this sort of thing here in Joisey, but should it happen, we'll be out there with the other side of the story.

We've got a lot of Peace Churches here.

[ultraist]

9. I think you're right, it's a "Pentagon Outreach program"

Someone else posted a flyer from a church that was holding a big recruit. It is a pro military (ie pro war) campaign being waged in the churches.

[lostnfound]

15. Military regalia set up on the altar?!?!!

Good God, that is just SICK.

Where have you read or heard that it's happening all over the country?

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Check this out...

http://shlonkombakazay.blogspot.com/2005/02/efficient-version-holy-st-its-fascist.html

I posted this link on a Baptist peace list, and responses indicated it was not at all uncommon.

One Baptist minister on the list quit his job over the military displays in his church, and found another one more in the spirit of Christ. It wasn't easy to find one, though.

[lostnfound]

18. Can this be real?

I must still be in a state of denial. Incredible.

[WebeBlue]

12. I need to weigh in here..military family.

1) If there is a campaign going on in churches using and exploiting the troops to deliver a propaganda message, then I want to know more, and get to work on it .. Now!

2) I couldn't quite tell from the posts if some folks were being sarcastic or really arguing a point. No one returning from Iraq is saying things are great. If officers are saying it, then that would make it highly suspect, and sounds to me like more of spreading the propaganda to keep the public dumb and ignorant and keep that rah rah support the troops nonsense alive and flourishing.

3) We are a military family, with two deployed in Iraq, served extended tours and both are under orders now for second deployment to Iraq in a few short months AND under Stop Loss orders at the same time. They both are to make decision about re-enlistment next month, but since they are both already now under Stop Loss orders + redeploy to Iraq orders, they will wind up in combat in Iraq whether they decide not to re-enlist or to re-enlist. Is that a choice? I'd call it involuntary conscription. It also goes to the point that the military is grotesquely short of troops and are using every deceptive trick in the book to meet the mission goals (what mission...no one seems to know). Meanwhile all of this is kept out of the public discourse. The some few who can be wheedled and manipulated troops (officers??) into saying things are going well in Iraq are being used in an expolitave propaganda campaign.

Ask me more.....and I want to follow this discussion. Get it straight please, the troops are no longer volunteer military, they are trapped into involuntary and repeat service.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. Yes, there is a campaign going on...

and they are using returning troops as propaganda to get support for the war. The church displays seem to be largely in the Bible Belt where they are welcomed, but might be in some places in the Midwest where war support is already high.

See my link in another post. This sort of thing is obviously a part of a major effort by the Pentagon.

Here in Joisey we won't see much of this sort of church militarism going on, but there have been many newspaper stories planted about how returning vets are saying what wonderful things we're doing over there. They can always find just one who will shill for their side.

The propaganda machine has geared up for this, and nobody's being deliberately sarcastic about it. It's real, and it is terrifying.