What does it mean to support the troops?

[leyton]

I have begun to wonder. I'm the last person to associate supporting the troops with supporting George W. Bush, but I'm generally pretty sensitive to hyprocisy on the left too. So hear me out.

Obviously nearly every soldier would rather be stateside, where he/she could see family members on a regular basis and not live in the dangerous hellhole that is Iraq. But I think many of them are dedicated soldiers as well, who want to carry out their mission as well as possible. They want to build that school, secure that voting booth, protect that government minister, etc. Sometimes this can be accomplished with no harm, but sometimes things turn sour - particularly if insurgents start attacking Americans - and there is collateral damage. I don't think I am too optimistic if I say that most of our soldiers don't agree with that whacko general who recently said that shooting people is fun.

Yet every day on DU I see people characterizing our troops as murderers, as testosterone-charged trigger-happy buffoons. And let's be honest, Fahrenheit 9/11's portrayal of a search operation being carried out in the United States was incredibly one-sided.

I'm beginning to wonder if there are some people here who don't support our troops. The majority of DUers, I'm sure, aren't the ones who pretend that our soldiers are animals and who wash their hands of the horrors of war. But there is a minority here for whom 'support the troops' is a bunch of talk.

[ewagner]

1. Briefly stated

Love the Soldier

Hate the war.......

[followthemoney]

2. Oppose the War, Support the Warrior

Make sure the Department of Defense uses the troops for defense, not a thinly veiled offense.

[porphyrian]

3. Wave flags and beat up hippies. Cut Veterans' benefits. - n/t

[BamaLefty]

4. It Means

To support what Bush orders no matter what. I do believe that putting a yellow ribbon magnet on your car is a form of this brainwashed mentality. In other words, the phrase "support the troops" means "Hail deh Fuhrer!" to most people. To support this war, is flipping these young men and women the middle finger in my mind.

I support our troops. That is why I want them to return to American soil... pronto! :(

[Lorien]

5. For the repugs, it generally means

"support the Iraq invasion". When I've asked repugs why they think we're in Iraq since there are no WMDs and the Iraqis are supposed to be self governing, their only reply is usually a hysterical "Well, I support the troops! I support the troops! SUPPORT THE TROOPS"!!!

So, for some people, "supporting the troops" means supporting the individual men and women who signed on to defend our country, and to others, it means supporting an indefensible act of violence against a nation that offered no threats against us, and which is draining our treasury to the point of economic collapse. If one says they do support the troops or they don't, they get damned or applauded either way because the meaning is different depending on whose definition you adhere to.

[peacetalksforall]

6. Yes, support the innocent. We don't have to support the brass,

particularly the staff of Rumsfeld, specifically the signers on of the PNAC creed. Always make distinctions.

Read this on a dust jacket of a book about the Spanish Armada..."All over Europe, indeed, everyone of consequence knew it: the fleet was bound for the conquest of England. The men who manned it had not been told a lie, as the king proposed. Officially, they had not been told anything at all. But even the most dim-witted of them had been discussing it for months."

I cannot support war. Man is capable of peace. The way men use their fellow men is inhuman. Though disinformation and abuse has been going on for centuries, we can do something about it. The people all over this world can demand leaders who strive for peace and have a will to co-exist without ungodly profiteering.

Those who are fanatic about saving the fetus, but not the soldier are hypocrites.

[puddycat]

7. support which troops? Abu Ghraib torturers? Fallujah genociders?

speak up. Let's hear it. which troops? the ones flying in jets which dropped bombs on innocent grandmoms in Falluja? The one who drove a truck over a little boy because he happened to be in the way? The one who drove his tank over a car-load of innocent Iraqis?

ARE THESE THE TROOPS YOU WANT ME TO SUPPORT?

This crap is nonsense, and I'm sick of the hypocrisy of it, the EVIL of trying to support murderers, whether or not they are the neo-cons in power, or whether they simply do the bidding of them. There is no difference.

If these were truly courageous human beings, they would refuse, resist, and go to prison if necessary, rather than rape and torture and destroy a nation for the benefit of rich people getting richer.

We are a deeply sick people, and as long as we accept the myth that we can "support the troops" while despising the policies they uphold, then we are in denial.

[DELUSIONAL]

20. "Support the Troops" is an all or nothing statement

On an individual basis -- law abiding individuals in the military can be supported. Individuals who do not deserve our respect or support are the individuals who have committed criminal acts like the ones puddycat listed above -- these are the "troops" who will NEVER have my support.

However individuals are also responsible for their own behavior. Much of the violence (murder, death, torture of innocent civilians etc) can be blamed on chain of command -- right up to and including Der Bushita. When individuals of lower rank -- rape, murder, and steal from the very people they are suppose to "liberate" -- these individuals should be arrested and face the judicial process.

The "troops" who pulled the trigger and murdered innocents people in Falluja (from eye witness accounts) should be identified and charged and put on trial for war crimes. There are standards of conduct -- even in war and from some of the accounts I've read and the photos I've seen it does seem that excessive loss of Iraqi civilian life has occurred -- and there in no doubt in my mind that the US has engaged in torture of prisoners and the willful ignoring of the Geneva conventions.

At the end of WWII the US was very self righteous and executed the highest officials in the German and Japanese chain of command for war crimes.

At the beginning of the Iraq invasion -- support the troops -- became a code phrase for -- support bush. And to many people it still has that meaning -- especially the idiots who have the yellow "support the troops" stickers on their cars.

The real test of support the troops will be the long term care of the Veterans -- and pay that the troops and their families can survive on without having to turn to food stamps.

The real test of support the troops will be necessary equipment and parts to keep the vehicles, planes, ships in operational condition.

[randr]

8. It means to participate in democracy

It requires us to become educated about issues and to respond by electing the best "temp" help we can find.
Our troops are best supported by effective diplomacy.
The man who carries the big stick and speaks softly is in fact the best leader we could give our troops.
Our nation, in electing the current regime has turned their collective backs on our nation and troops.

[XemaSab]

9. During Vietnam

A lot of anti-war protesters confused hating the war with hating the soldiers. Returning soldiers were called murderers and baby killers and were spit on.

Many anti-war protesters, in retrospect, felt terrible about the treatment returning soldiers got. Therefore, in this war, we should remember what happened to soldiers returning from Vietnam, and we should not blame the current soldiers for the horrors of this war.

That's what supporting the troops means to me.

(Full confession: I was born after the war, but my mom was a hardcore anti-war protester, and this is what she's told me. My mom's still a hardcore anti-war protester, BTW, and this is how she feels about it.)

[puddycat]

11. there were NEVER a lot of anti-war protestors abusing soldiers

in Vietnam. This is a myth created by fascist people such as John O'Neill. And now, even though many of us don't "support" the troops who are taking part in the genocide of the Iraqi people, it doesn't mean that we would abuse them in any way, in fact the opposite: I have donated and worked on behalf of veterans. Many of my relatives are veterans.

However, I will not support troops while in the theater of a war I despise. It would be the height of immorality and hypocrisy for me to do so. Once they come home, they deserve the respect of any other human being, and a chance for forgiveness and rehabilitation.

[XemaSab]

12. I'm reporting what my mom said.

I'm not reporting what John O'Neill said. It may not have been widespread, but it happened and it was wrong.

[MSgt213]

10. You hold the correct people responsible for their actions. Forget the

the top sergeants and generals when you talk about the troops because they are not troops. They are leaders. The troops are actually young people from the age of about 18 to late 30s. They are the boots on the ground taking the bullets and delivering the death on our behalf. They are the ones we are asking to risk death and witness their friends being killed and expecting that it not have any effect on them so they can do again on the next mission.

Now if the troops commit crimes because we commit them to missions that they are not trained to do and not equipped for who's fault is it? It's the fault of the top sergeants and generals who won't resign and stand up to their civilian bosses when they know they are over estimating the capability of our armed forces. It the fault of the civilian leaders who commit our troops to carry out their personal vendettas and not for purely the protection of this country. Lastly, its the fault of the American people who stand behind lies and support civilian leaders who they know very well are more interested in remaining in power.

[Swamp Rat]

13. For those who voted for Bush it means: Enlisting in the military tomorrow

morning, first thing.

If you voted for Bush but don't sacrifice a life in your family, you are a traitor and a coward. If you like war or condone it, you MUST go join the military TOMORROW! or else you are a coward and a traitor.

leyton, when a U. S. general says it is fun to kill people, is it any wonder why SOME peace loving Americans will think that SOME of our troops are "murderers and testosterone-charged trigger-happy buffoons?"

Than you Michael Moore for showing the ugly side, the side we all want to pretend doesn't exist.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leyton]

15. Fair enough - I'll show you what spurred me to post this.

from
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3189844

"Instead, we went for the cheap testosterone high of butchering people of color. How sad!"

This is exactly what I'm referring to - treating our soldiers as just a bunch of monsters.

I'm not lying about DU - I'm making a statement that there are people here who tick me off by saying these things, which they obviously say. I made it very clear that this was not a majority.

[yankeedem]

17. Maybe you should read a little more carefully

First of all, it says "we". Meaning American society. Not the soldiers. Society and their leaders. The soldiers are just (usually) innocent pawns. Do you have anything else, or is that all you've got?

[bpilgrim]

22. thats all they ever got

they are just mad cause the disgusting truth is that we are seen the world over as the new imperial fascist and instead of facing the truth and doing something about it they like to bash DU :puke:

peace

[leyton]

32. That is the only one on hand.

However, I see it on a near daily basis and it's not too hard to find. I wish I could find you more of what I'm talking about. I'm not retracting my criticism, because I think it's valid.

[hippywife]

18. That line sounds like criticism

of policy not of the troops directly.

[leyton]

31. I interpret as implied criticism of the troops. eom

[hippywife]

33. Well that's the magic of

message boards and email...you have no idea how it was meant and interpret it based on your own biases.

[seito]

24. Ummm

I don't know....here maybe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3189937#3190015

[indepat]

16. It means solely what the Repugs say it means at the time

[bpilgrim]

19. don't forget FALLUJAH our Nanking and Abu Ghari and they ain't the only 1s

Japanese aircraft bombed south Shanghai Station Aug.28,1937.
About 200 people in the waiting room were dead or wounded by the bombing. A crying baby was left alone after the bombing. - Life Oct. 4, 1937

the imperial Japanese solders aren't remembered very well in history for their role in that atrocity and they all get lumped together as well so it is logical to see that in our case as well.

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS - OUTSOURCE THE WAR - TO IRAQIS - NOW!

peace

[KG]

21. it means put a yellow ribbon magnet on your car

[Toots]

23. Liberals created the GI Bill...what have Conservatives done?

:shrug: I would say the proof is in the puddin.

[journalist3072]

25. I think it means that....

Even if you don't agree on WHY the troops have been called to serve in a particular military action, you agree that they deserve to have all the necessary tools and equipment at their disposal, in order to properly do their job.

And you believe that when they return back home to their 'normal' lives, they should be able to come back to their jobs, and receive certain benefits from the government.

[bpilgrim]

27. "in order to properly do their job" - rape, torture and murder innocent

civilians as well as iraqi solders in an illegal war of aggression started by a corrupt murderous and extremist administration.

count me out.

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS - OUTSOURCE THE WAR - TO IRAQIS

BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!

peace

[journalist3072]

30. Rape and torture are not part of the job.....

That's not what I'm saying. I'm personally disgusted by the torture that took place in Iraq and at Gitmo.

I'm saying that I think that to support the troops means that you believe they should be given cetain tools, such as body armor and properly working humvees. Things like that. You believe they deserve that, whether or not you agree with why they are where they are.

[bpilgrim]

34. i understand

and i agree they should be well outfitted to their jobs but now it is a crime what their jobs are :cry:

peace

[journalist3072]

35. I know...and that saddens me

I'm afraid that thanks to Bush, the United States is becoming what it supposedly despises.

I think it speaks volumes about Bush's failures that his supporters have tried to justify what when on in Abu Gharib by basically saying "What the United States did in there is nothing compared to what went on in there under Sadaam."

[FM Arouet666]

26. You have to buy the magnets and little American flags......

That is about the extent of it, for most republicans. Never mind that you stick that magnet on a giant gas guzzling SUV which fosters a greater need for foreign oil, the real reason we are in Iraq. Oh, and supporting the troops also means voting for a nitwit half brain who swaggers around like John Wayne saying "bring em on."

As for those on DU bashing the troops, I must admit, I have not seen too much of this. I suspect that those that are critical of our troops are venting frustration about the war. The troops are victims of the administration, as are the Iraqi people who lost their lives in this misadventure.

I suspect you are correct, there are probably a minority of people who are ideological extremists, filled with hate, incapable of considering alternative view points. Both sides can degenerate into extremism, though I would like to think the GOP has a corner on the market.

[chlamor]

28. It Means the American Lexicon and Culture is All Military All the Time

I Support the Occupation, But Not the Troops- The Onion
"Yes, occupying Iraq does require troops, but they are there for one reason and one reason only: to carry out the orders of the U.S. Defense Department. As far as their overall importance goes, they are no more worthy of our consideration than a box of nails. Ribbons and banners in ostensible "support" of the troops miss the whole point of the invasion, which is to gain a strategic hold over that volatile and lucrative geopolitical region."

"Need I remind the reader that it is our flag, not the troops, that we salute? It is our nation-state, not a bunch of 20-year-olds in parachute pants, that deserves our allegiance. As a patriot and true American, my heart sings at the thought of the Pentagon, and the zealous, calculating measures undertaken by the proud military bureaucracy of this great superpower. I feel a surge of pride when I think about our high-tech GBU laser-guided bombs, capable of carrying a 2,000-pound warhead. I tied a ribbon around my tree for the safe return of our nation's F-16s, because our military aircraft are instrumental to finishing our work in Iraq. And on the back of my car, I have a sticker stating my support for the CIA's ongoing efforts in Iraq."
<snip>
"In all honesty, my soul swells with pride at the thought of the military-strategy papers and cost-analysis reports in which the troops are represented as numerical figures. But, as for the men and women—well, in almost every respect, they are average. Although they are no less intelligent than any other American, it is certainly fair to say they lack the ability to devise the complex strategies and tactics to manage their own divisions, much less grasp the nuanced reasons for their deployment."

"It is ridiculous that my "heart" is somehow morally or ethically obliged to "go out" to the troops. In fact, had the troops not been put to productive labor by the sheer might and institutional authority of the U.S. military, a good number of them would be sitting around bars, drinking and gambling. In short, we shouldn't view the troops as objects of sympathy, because their very contribution to our society is their ability to carry out simple commands on a battlefield."
http://www.theonion.com/opinion/index.php?issue=4108&o=...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. It's RW shorthand for "don't criticize Bush"

:-)

[GreenArrow]

36. it means

BOW to the WISHES of your MASTERS.